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rug

(82,333 posts)
43. I did. Here's your opportunity to read the whole thing.
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:41 PM
May 2013
Romans 3

1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:


“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”[a]

5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

No One Is Righteous

9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:


“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Righteousness Through Faith

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


Nothing in there supports the OP statement regarding "the belief that we are all wretched human beings". The passage is about the faithfulness of God, humanity's constant rejection of it, and the need for faith. Different things entirely.
I don't think he was lecturing the atheists when he said that .... MADem May 2013 #1
I agree but I don't think others in the Vatican liked it. hrmjustin May 2013 #2
Well he's the head Mitre-chapeau in charge, so they're just gonna have to dig on it! MADem May 2013 #4
JP the first dies the day I was born. He died about the time I was born. hrmjustin May 2013 #5
Time for a bit of reincarnation woo, if you believe that sort of thing! nt MADem May 2013 #6
That is what my friends at church say. hrmjustin May 2013 #7
what do they say? DesertFlower May 2013 #8
That I am John Paul the first reincarnated. hrmjustin May 2013 #9
Damn shame George and Ringo isn't in there with ya. Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #11
Now that would be a great personality! hrmjustin May 2013 #12
I share a birthday with Adolphs death day. SCVDem May 2013 #19
do you think you are? DesertFlower May 2013 #24
No I don't, but it is interesting that I was born almost at the moment he died. hrmjustin May 2013 #25
i believe in reincarnation. i didn't think DesertFlower May 2013 #26
They said it in jest and I am Episcopalian. hrmjustin May 2013 #27
i think it was in the 1400s. i'm a former DesertFlower May 2013 #28
I think they got rid of limbo! As to reincarnation it could have been the cathars! hrmjustin May 2013 #29
they changed so many rules. i remember it was a mortal sin DesertFlower May 2013 #36
The Church must speak to every generation. Unfortunately many churvhes have issues doing hrmjustin May 2013 #45
In my mind there's a big difference between Laws of the church and God's laws No Vested Interest May 2013 #61
lol. a little off the subject but another DesertFlower May 2013 #64
I see a strong parallel between Pope Francis and President Obama BlueStreak May 2013 #30
In my opinion believers and non-believers go to the same place when we die. hrmjustin May 2013 #31
Therein lies the problem when we create gods in our own image BlueStreak May 2013 #33
Well we will find out sooner or later. hrmjustin May 2013 #34
Well actually, we won't. And that's how religions are able to keep their con going. BlueStreak May 2013 #35
if that is true then undoubtedly we northern europeans still go to ragnarok or the like. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #50
Yeah but I like a heaven with an open bar better. hrmjustin May 2013 #51
that'd be valhalla, then. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #53
My idea of heaven is a big bruch with neverending booze and food. hrmjustin May 2013 #54
that's valhalla. it just is. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #56
Looks fun. Ok valhala it is! hrmjustin May 2013 #57
the norse religion's idea of the 'end of the world' was better too.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #58
So you can live as you want without having to worry about the rules. hrmjustin May 2013 #59
i dont know about *that*.. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #63
Whether Rosch does or does not is immaterial, as long as he understands what the Pope is saying. rug May 2013 #3
Ummm, that "uninformed statement"... gcomeau May 2013 #38
Then it should be a small matter to cite the chapter and verse. rug May 2013 #41
Romans 3: 9-20 gcomeau May 2013 #42
I did. Here's your opportunity to read the whole thing. rug May 2013 #43
Read it. Many times. gcomeau May 2013 #46
yeh but it's all how you *interpret* .. Phillip McCleod May 2013 #55
Meh Tien1985 May 2013 #10
Something too obviuos coldbeer May 2013 #13
Are you saying the classic monks bent over scribing away were the first nerds? Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #14
Why do people think that male nerds and geeks are gay? coldbeer May 2013 #40
"So...what's with this stereotype?" Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #44
Religion and Science are Both Ways.... Billsmile May 2013 #15
No, sorry...they are not skepticscott May 2013 #20
Not even close. gcomeau May 2013 #39
Click-bait fake controvery. Author deliberately took the Pope out of context to draw views. TekGryphon May 2013 #16
I don't want to go to heaven, even if it existed. I didn't hang with the "saints" in life, I'll alfredo May 2013 #17
Pope Frankie is not shaking up the RC world RVN VET May 2013 #18
I donno why people always try to make it more then what it is. Lobo27 May 2013 #21
We know what he thinks of atheists. What does he think of the child rapists and their enablers stopbush May 2013 #22
Dear Pope, Atheists Don't Need Redemption... BillyRibs May 2013 #23
Amen....;) nt Purplehazed May 2013 #32
I doubt Pope Francis spends much time reading HuffPo, so if Rosch wants to tell him something struggle4progress May 2013 #37
I doubt atheists spend much time listening to the Pope's sermons, so... Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #47
I doubt the Pope was expecting atheists to listen to his talk: he seems to have addressed struggle4progress May 2013 #48
Nonsense Act_of_Reparation May 2013 #60
... The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily struggle4progress May 2013 #62
I don't need to be redeemed... uriel1972 May 2013 #49
This must be part of being a good beard for the Ratz. Walk away May 2013 #52
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