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Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
93. Maybe, or maybe we as a species have outgrown certain concepts
Mon Mar 14, 2016, 07:36 PM
Mar 2016

which were better suited to our brains when we thought the sun was a magic ball in the sky.

Or, to put it another way; you wouldn't buy a brand new computer and load it up with Windows 95. It would be ridiculous to try and run 20 year old software on a modern machine and expect good results. But people walk around trying to comprehend the reality of 2016 using semantic maps that were put together 1400, 2000 years ago, or longer. And the results are frequently obvious.

Hell, even our legal and governmental structures are proving woefully inadequate to address modern realities; the FBI is currently attempting to rely on laws from the 70s all the way back to the late 1800s, to address their fight with apple over encryption. We often see people- even some self-identified "progressives"- in a perpetual state of temper tantrum because HBO shows full frontal nudity, that sort of thing.

I am of the opinion that particularly as technology advances at an exponential rate, what is needed more than ever are open source, open-ended, belief systems or meta belief systems, to address the, for lack of a better word, non-euclidian levels of complexity that comprise the data streams we are encountering in the 21st century. Catmas, as the Discordians call them, as opposed to Dogmas.

(It is interesting, as a digression from this digression, that Bill Wilson- again, for all his many flaws- did manage to create in the structure of alcoholics anonymous a very durable, perfect in many ways, model for a decentralized, anarchist bottom-up anti-organization, which contributes mightily IMHO to the durability of the idea and the program. While one can take issue with the steps, the traditions are pretty objectively impressive from that perspective)

But I disagree, I think actual education and information is somewhat incompatible with these sorts of oversimplified bumpersticker aphorisms. Like "abstinence only" versus teaching about STDs and contraception, the approaches are not easily munged together.

I do believe that young minds should develop organically, and that would include avoiding mind-alterants (many of which our young people are inundated with by big pharma, like ritalin) until the brain has sort of figured out where it sits as a baseline and the personality has gelled to a certain extent. "Just say no" as one piece of advice isn't inherently bad in this regard, but again, I do think that an intellectual approach to the issue of "drugs" and education thereof would include as I said upthread, acknowledgement that all drugs and all users and all relationships between the two are not the same.

Hell, we can acknowledge that a glass of wine is occasionally healthy for some people, while also realizing that alcoholism is a deadly nightmare for others. Similarly, it is inane to pretend that something like cannabis isn't only "not bad" but can be downright beneficial for some people, in terms of creativity and other enrichment.



ETA uppityperson Mar 2016 #1
She just got done talking about Alzheimer's Luminous Animal Mar 2016 #2
look at the whole speech - she 840high Mar 2016 #28
But even if she meant to say stem cell research, it's still BS. winter is coming Mar 2016 #11
Yup. uppityperson Mar 2016 #12
She wasn't confused Arazi Mar 2016 #33
I hadn't read her whole statement. That is very odd and wrong uppityperson Mar 2016 #41
No one was afraid to talk about stem cell research and Alzheimer's seattleite Mar 2016 #35
Welcome to DU! Arazi Mar 2016 #44
Hi! Thank you! seattleite Mar 2016 #47
It was a stupid comment gwheezie Mar 2016 #3
Oh good Ichingcarpenter Mar 2016 #4
How is calling something stupid "apologist"? Maybe you didn't read the whole thing? uppityperson Mar 2016 #5
Can you even read? n/t kcr Mar 2016 #6
Oh Hillary said she was mistaken Ichingcarpenter Mar 2016 #8
Maybe read the op again? kcr Mar 2016 #10
C'mon Iching, Chitoiwn Kev wasn't cutting any excuses. Deep breath, re-read Scootaloo Mar 2016 #27
Cowboy Bob always said "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" n/t DefenseLawyer Mar 2016 #7
Well we know who controlled that puppet Ichingcarpenter Mar 2016 #13
That was Buffalo Bob DefenseLawyer Mar 2016 #15
Both of my brothers Ichingcarpenter Mar 2016 #17
It looks like McDonalds got their inspiration from Cowboy Bob Blus4u Mar 2016 #76
And Bette Davis said ... ebayfool Mar 2016 #61
That's my question. longship Mar 2016 #9
It's so dumb that I don't even get how it could happen CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #31
Me, neither. For god's sake, the dead woman was a Republican who Nay Mar 2016 #73
Yes it was VERY stupid ibegurpard Mar 2016 #14
I still can't believe she said it. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #16
Well let's hear her statement on Iran Contra Ichingcarpenter Mar 2016 #19
now, now, now....enough of that Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #20
If this was not a public place Oh the things I could be saying about those times and the people Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #23
I'll take Ron, Jr's word that his mother may have done a very few things on the DL Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #24
Maybe melman Mar 2016 #50
Yes Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #55
Issues like ZOMG BERNIEBROS OUTRAGEEEEE Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #34
Truly zero need to go there. NCTraveler Mar 2016 #18
Nancy Reagan didn't do anything that didn't directly benefit Nancy Reagan nichomachus Mar 2016 #21
Hence the reason why Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #22
Except... Hillary wasn't "at" the funeral... she was mic'd and talking with Andrea Mitchell. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #25
Though I know you support her and I don't, I appreciate your post. closeupready Mar 2016 #26
Me 2 - I'm remembering my two friends. 840high Mar 2016 #29
Me, too. artislife Mar 2016 #30
I did not vote for Hillary Clinton in the primary Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #49
You're actually trying to spin "just say no" as some societal good? Give me a fucking break. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #32
I am absolutely on the verge of saying something that will get me banned Aerows Mar 2016 #37
Its simply astounding. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #38
I'm so pissed, I have Aerows Mar 2016 #39
. Major Hogwash Mar 2016 #58
We don't agree very often Aerows Mar 2016 #60
Wow... Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #48
Do you really think addicts can "just say no?" Arazi Mar 2016 #52
Yes...that would include some of the people that I did drugs with Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #63
Stop the war on drugs. It's what Sanders says and I believe him Arazi Mar 2016 #65
I never said that JSN...the campaign works Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #67
DUIs and these other crimes- I presume you mean robbery, etc- well again, those are crimes. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #70
You'd be surprised to know Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #74
And that drills down to my problem with "just say no". The converse isn't necessarily "just say yes" Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #75
Just say no...yes, that is too simple...and not enough Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #81
My dad was a huge 12 stepper, and it was the smokes that eventually killed him. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #82
I think it's a gross oversimplification to make statements like that. Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #69
Actually, "Just Say No" was designed for kids Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #88
I believe it is worth noting that, the axiomatic assertions of some 12 steppers to the contrary Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #89
Well, hence the "archetype" of sorts Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #90
My general point is that these questions are better handled intelligently, thoughtfully and honestly Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #91
1) Kids pretty much smell bullshit Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #92
Maybe, or maybe we as a species have outgrown certain concepts Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #93
I'm gay Aerows Mar 2016 #36
Your reading comprehension or your translation skills must be sorely lacking Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #45
Should I triangulate instead? Aerows Mar 2016 #46
"tone-deaf" "stupid" and "ill-advised" are the words that I used in this OP Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #51
Yes, and I was fairly polite in this thread. Aerows Mar 2016 #53
You know what? Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #57
Sorry that this incident opened up old wounds for you. n/t. Ken Burch Mar 2016 #40
Secretary Clinton Aerows Mar 2016 #56
Yea, no need for Mrs. Clinton to bring it up. bigwillq Mar 2016 #42
that's the thing, there was NO need to bring it up , it's not like she was asked about it JI7 Mar 2016 #43
Precisely, JI7 Aerows Mar 2016 #54
She was trying to score points. Major Hogwash Mar 2016 #59
This has to be really upsetting to gay people, who are supporting Hillary in high numbers Number23 Mar 2016 #62
To me... Chitown Kev Mar 2016 #64
Well, you know I've said 100 times that none of these people running have inspired me Number23 Mar 2016 #66
Not at all. giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #77
She's slightly more exciting than John Kerry but that's not saying much Number23 Mar 2016 #78
Yeah, & both of them have some issues that scare the crap out of me. giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #79
Nah, its okay. Don't worry about it mikehiggins Mar 2016 #68
Stupid: Yes. Unworthy of the presidency: definitely. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #71
Ridiculous. Beacool Mar 2016 #80
laugh at me all you want Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #84
I wasn't laughing at you. Beacool Mar 2016 #85
Ridiculous literally means: "to be laughed at" Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #87
But she did go there Laughing Mirror Mar 2016 #72
ill-advised, tone-deaf, and stupid. RobertEarl Mar 2016 #83
Her comments and her obvious CYA "apology" are pure politics and coldly calculated. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #86
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