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pampango

(24,692 posts)
73. No. I think the Western middle class is in the top 80% to 95% globally, not the top 1%.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:37 AM
Apr 2016


As liberals, shouldn't we be equally concerned about the other human beings on our planet?

Of course we should. And if we don't, nobody will because conservatives certainly are not going to be concerned with poor people anywhere.

Shouldn't we be willing to share the wealth and the jobs and the industries with other countries and peoples?

Should people with more be willing to share with people who have less? That's a pretty good definition of 'liberal'.

We have been very privileged...and like the silver spoon portion of our society, most of that good fortune has been an accident of birth rather than something we have earned.

Winning the 'birth lottery' (witness the Donald) says a lot about your prospects in life. If you or I had been born in Bangladesh or Nigeria, our life prospects would be significantly diminished.

Trade agreements in spite of their ugly local side effects are good for the worlds populations.

I don't know that it is 'trade agreements' themselves. Few of the really poor countries in south Asia or Africa or the rest of the world have trade agreements with Western countries unless you count belonging to the WTO as a 'trade agreement'.

You could make the case that trade, in general, has contributed to the increasing incomes of the worlds poorest 70%. That would not have surprised FDR. Increased global prosperity was one of the reasons he wanted to promote international trade after WWII.

The problem is not disruption due to trade agreements, it's the failure of the social safety net including job training and housing/food assistance.

True. That is why progressive countries can trade 2 to 3 times as much as the US and have stronger unions and middle classes than the US has. They provide the safety nets, progressive taxes, business regulation, etc. that FDR provided to the US.

We shouldn't be trade isolationists any more than we should be political isolationist.

True indeed. Trump and Cruz are classic republican isolationists like Coolidge and Hoover of the pre-FDR era. They love walls and tariffs; they want to break our international agreements; withdraw from international organizations, etc. Basically they are the opposite of what FDR was trying to accomplish.
Fresh_Start I pray for you and your excellent post. You will be slammed for being a globalist, Hoyt Apr 2016 #1
I know that I was concerned about the backlash. Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #3
THIS OP IS NOT A LIBERAL VIEW POINT Zira Apr 2016 #66
It's not even a viewpoint capable of counting to 10. JackRiddler Apr 2016 #98
Not a neo-liberal one though Armstead Apr 2016 #91
Is it liberal to lack arithmetic? JackRiddler Apr 2016 #97
SO we are supposed to shut up and accept the race to the bottom Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #90
You are supposed to quit treating poor foreign workers like scabs and competition. Hoyt Apr 2016 #92
America First Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #93
Yep America First and Nationalism, screw the rest of world we are the "greedy 1%ers of the world." Hoyt Apr 2016 #95
Ubsurd excuse for the Race to the bottom Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #96
"Race to bottom" and other such BS is just dog whistle against poor foreign workers. Hoyt Apr 2016 #99
World population growth is out of control... Blanks Apr 2016 #102
"Trade agreements in spite of their ugly local side effects are good for the worlds populations." Scuba Apr 2016 #2
let's ask the people in India, Philippines hill2016 Apr 2016 #6
Let's see someone in India get's a $3/day job at the expense of someone in the USA who loses ... Scuba Apr 2016 #10
I really don't think your numbers work hill2016 Apr 2016 #12
Nationalism at its ugliest. If in fact an Indian is getting $3/day, it damn sure is better than Hoyt Apr 2016 #25
So you support the Race to the Bottom. No surprise there Hoyt. None at all. Scuba Apr 2016 #29
So you see poor people wlling to work for a better life as competition and scabs. Hoyt Apr 2016 #38
Whoooose. Scuba Apr 2016 #43
It's certainly a boon for the Indian guy who was previously making 20 cents a day Recursion Apr 2016 #57
You seem like a bright guy so I'm pretty sure you can understand this ... Scuba Apr 2016 #72
Only if by that you mean "white working people" Recursion Apr 2016 #75
It's a net loss for working people. Your attempt to suggest it's racist is noted, however. Scuba Apr 2016 #80
Nope. *net* income and wages are up Recursion Apr 2016 #81
In the example I used in the thread, net income for working people is NOT up. Period. Scuba Apr 2016 #83
Yes, it is Recursion Apr 2016 #84
No. Income drops from $240.20 per day to $3.00 per day. If you think that's higher ... Scuba Apr 2016 #85
OMG! Recursion Apr 2016 #86
OMG! Series? Scuba Apr 2016 #88
That's because your example is a *complete lie* Recursion Apr 2016 #89
Your example assumes it takes 100 Indians to replace one American worker. Scuba Apr 2016 #101
A typical call center worker in the Philippines makes about $500-700 per month. DCBob Apr 2016 #76
Yup. Hyderabad call center wages are about $800 per month Recursion Apr 2016 #78
For sure there are problems with outsourcing but clearly some are benefiting. DCBob Apr 2016 #87
Agree Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #94
No need to go to India. You can ask H1B Indians R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #11
Free Trade agreements do not help with the poverty around the world. FAIR TRADE agreements do. jillan Apr 2016 #4
Did I say "free" trade agreements? Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #13
You Hillarites thought long and hard on this one. nice try litlbilly Apr 2016 #19
They're profoundly ignorant because they don't google and find out anything. Zira Apr 2016 #65
Not being in the "middle class" I can only say that Downwinder Apr 2016 #5
Exactly, they bind countries together in ways that go far beyond trade. Hoyt Apr 2016 #26
2nd in North America alone. mmonk Apr 2016 #7
Just a coinky-dink that these trade deals enrich Hillary's donors, I guess? nt Romulox Apr 2016 #8
That's just an unintended consequence. Wilms Apr 2016 #22
Your third grade sophistry is duly noted. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #9
I didn't say "Free Trade" Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #14
Which just adds to your third grade sophistry. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #17
Thank you! cheapdate Apr 2016 #55
Nafta went from one country to the next using the cheapest labor they could Zira Apr 2016 #67
How is manufacturing goods in one country katsy Apr 2016 #18
Containers are not reused? Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #35
Tons of container waste in S.F. & they're starting katsy Apr 2016 #45
You said they are not reused Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #48
Google is your friend katsy Apr 2016 #52
Thank you. Re: your last paragraph - especially not at the jwirr Apr 2016 #46
that is what they are called whether you said it or not. litlbilly Apr 2016 #20
People are being exploited around the azmom Apr 2016 #15
sources? citations? It's not true just because someone says it on the internet Cheese Sandwich Apr 2016 #16
There are studies by numerous governments and many academics Fresh_Start Apr 2016 #21
Agree, AND it's also not necessarily true even if said on TV either!! eom Karma13612 Apr 2016 #74
Funny, you're the same person who posted this: BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #23
Of course they are the same. TM99 Apr 2016 #31
Your concern is noted krawhitham Apr 2016 #24
"You make $40k and have insurance RadiationTherapy Apr 2016 #27
The "trade" agreements are meant to bring most of us down to that worldwide poverty level, with the djean111 Apr 2016 #28
I soundly reject your neoliberalism TM99 Apr 2016 #30
Well said A Little Weird Apr 2016 #32
^^This!!^^ dana_b Apr 2016 #33
This company pays workers $6.00 per day in Mexico. azmom Apr 2016 #44
I just got off the phone TM99 Apr 2016 #47
Besides, it costs more to live in the US, especially in the COLD north! raging moderate Apr 2016 #82
The US is 4.4% of the world population. So an American with an average income is definitely not jfern Apr 2016 #34
You need an income of 40k per year Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #36
VERY attainable for MANY Americans. Hiraeth Apr 2016 #37
40,000 is attainable for many americans Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #39
40,000 is attainable for many americans. bullshit. eom Hiraeth Apr 2016 #41
More than half make 50k or more. That is many americans. Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #49
Individual or Total household Income? either way the 40k jobs of the future. where are they? Hiraeth Apr 2016 #50
So very out of touch.... haikugal Apr 2016 #53
bubbles inside of bubbles. insulated and insular Hiraeth Apr 2016 #54
It's over $100k to be global 1% jfern Apr 2016 #42
No, it's $34K for a single individual Recursion Apr 2016 #58
$34k sounds way too low to be 80th percentile in the US jfern Apr 2016 #59
For an individual earner that sounds about right; median is $25K or so Recursion Apr 2016 #60
Household income probably makes more sense jfern Apr 2016 #63
Exploitative trade agreements are not good for workers of any country. n/t Skwmom Apr 2016 #40
Grab a dictionary..... daleanime Apr 2016 #51
You basicaally just said the middle class if fine, because others are worse. Idiot. Joob Apr 2016 #56
Oh look, more "opposing free trade makes you a racist" horseshit. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #61
More Hillarians being beyond uninformed. Zira Apr 2016 #68
Republican policies. Republican rationalization. nt vintx Apr 2016 #77
Ahh fuck, not this bullshit again. 99Forever Apr 2016 #62
How UNINFORMED can you get? I'm guessing you are a HILLARIAN because this is so bad. Zira Apr 2016 #64
I have not been proud of DU much lately.... senseandsensibility Apr 2016 #69
It's not good My Good Babushka Apr 2016 #70
If you really cared about the worlds poor TheFarS1de Apr 2016 #71
No. I think the Western middle class is in the top 80% to 95% globally, not the top 1%. pampango Apr 2016 #73
Yeah but there's so many ways to measure that it gets meaningless Recursion Apr 2016 #79
This is a national election with international implications but, there is NO NEED, at this time, to Hiraeth Apr 2016 #100
Yes, we should be concerned about other human beings notadmblnd Apr 2016 #103
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