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2016 Postmortem

In reply to the discussion: Bernie Could Still Win [View all]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
104. Four names stand for what I know about UFOs: Mantell, Moncla, Wilson, Valentich.
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:28 PM
Apr 2016

The first three were pilots, officers in the United States armed forces. The fourth name was a young Australian air cadet. Each lost their life in association with UFOs. There likely are others. Here's a bit on them:

Thomas Mantell





Mantell Case (1948)

EXCERPT...

Mantell was an experienced pilot; his flight history consisted of 2,167 hours in the air, and he had been honored for his part in the Battle of Normandy during World War II.

On 7 January 1948, Godman Field at Fort Knox, Kentucky received a report from the Kentucky Highway Patrol of an unusual aerial object near Maysville, Kentucky. Reports of a westbound circular object, 250 feet (76 m) to 300 feet (91 m) in diameter, were received from Owensboro, Kentucky, and Irvington, Kentucky.

At about 1:45 p.m., Sgt Quinton Blackwell saw an object from his position in the control tower at Fort Knox. Two other witnesses in the tower also reported a white object in the distance. Base commander Colonel Guy Hix reported an object he described as "very white," and "about one fourth the size of the full moon ... Through binoculars it appeared to have a red border at the bottom ... It remained stationary, seemingly, for one and a half hours." Observers at Clinton County Army Air Field in Ohio described the object "as having the appearance of a flaming red cone trailing a gaseous green mist" and observed the object for around 35 minutes. Another observer at Lockbourne Army Air Field in Ohio noted, "Just before leaving it came to very near the ground, staying down for about ten seconds, then climbed at a very fast rate back to its original altitude, 10,000 feet, leveling off and disappearing into the overcast heading 120 degrees. Its speed was greater than 500 mph in level flight."

Four P-51 Mustangs of C Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron Kentucky Air National Guard already in the air—one piloted by Mantell—were told to approach the object. Blackwell was in radio communication with the pilots throughout the event.

One pilot's Mustang was low on fuel, and he quickly abandoned his efforts. Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (the first head of Project Blue Book) notes that there was some disagreement amongst the air traffic controllers as to Mantell's words as he communicated with the tower: some sources reported that Mantell had described an object &quot which) looks metallic and of tremendous size," but, according to Ruppelt in The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, others disputed whether or not Mantell actually said this.

The other two pilots accompanied Mantell in steep pursuit of the object. They later reported they saw an object, but described it as so small and indistinct they could not identify it. Mantell ignored suggestions that the pilots should level their altitude and try to more clearly see the object.

Only one of Mantell's companions, Lt. Albert Clemmons, had an oxygen mask, and his oxygen was in low supply. Clemmons and a Lt. Hammond called off their pursuit at 22,500 feet (6,900 m). Mantell continued to climb, however. According to the Air Force, once Mantell passed 25,000 feet (7,600 m) he supposedly blacked out from the lack of oxygen (hypoxia), and his plane began spiraling back towards the ground. A witness later reported Mantell's Mustang in a circling descent. His plane crashed at a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky, on the Tennessee-Kentucky state line.

Firemen later pulled Mantell's body from the Mustang's wreckage. His wristwatch had stopped at 3:18 p.m., the time of his crash. Meanwhile, by 3:50 p.m. the UFO was no longer visible to observers at Godman Field. The Mantell Incident was reported by newspapers around the nation, and received significant news media attention. A number of sensational rumors were also circulated about Mantell's crash. Among the rumors were claims that Mantell's fighter had been shot down by the UFO he was chasing, and that the Air Force covered up evidence proving this. Another rumor stated that Mantell's body was found riddled with strange holes. However, no evidence has ever surfaced to substantiate any of these claims. In 1956, Ruppelt wrote that the Mantell Crash was one of three "classic" UFO cases in 1948 that would help to define the UFO phenomenon in the public mind, and would help to convince Air Force intelligence specialists that UFOs were a "real", physical phenomenon (Ruppelt 30). The other two sightings were the Gorman Dogfight and the Chiles-Whitted UFO Encounter.

CONTINUED...

http://www.mufon.com/mantell-case---1948.html



Felix Moncla and Robert Wilson





Radar operator stated he watched the aircraft approach the UFO; then saw the two blips merge into one return on his scope; which then took off at a high rate of speed and out of radar range.

Marksville Weekly News

Avoyelles Parish has connections to a UFO mystery that goes back 49 years. Gordon Heath from Surrey, British Columbia was in Marksville recently to investigate the background of Lt. Felix E. Moncla who disappeared along with another crew member, Second Lt. Robert L. Wilson, over Lake Superior on Monday, November 23, 1953.

According to Heath, who is a UFO hobbyist, Moncla was on temporary assignment at Kinross Air Force Base in ...(sic. Michigan)... when he was sent to identify and unidentified craft over the Soo Locks, which is restricted airspace. Moncla, in an F-89C, pursued the craft for about 30 minutes flying at 30,000 feet over the middle of Lake Superior. He was flying about 500 mph when he was instructed by ground radar to descend to 7,000 feet.

When the unidentified craft was finally on radar it was noted that the two radar images, the UFO and the Air Force jet, were very close and at some point they intersected but only one remained. Heath says that the unidentified craft flew north and disappeared from radar.

Lt. Moncla's jet mysteriously disappeared without a trace.

http://www.nuforc.org/mancla.html


No remains of the crew or wreckage of the F-89C have been found.



Frederick Valentich



His late father holds the missing flyer's picture:



Delta Sierra Juliet? Do you read?

Boats and aircraft have found no trace of the 20-year old Australian pilot who disappeared with his plane on Saturday night after radioing that he was being chased by a UFO. Frederick Valentich was on a 125 mile training flight in his single engine Cessna 182 along the coast of Bass Strait when he told air traffic controllers in Melbourne that he was being buzzed by a UFO with 4 bright lights about 1000 feet above him.

Controllers said his last message was taped and was: "It's approaching from due east towards me. It seems to be playing some sort of game... flying at a speed I can't estimate. It's not an aircraft. It's...It is flying past. It is a long shape. I cannot identify more than that. It's coming for me right now." A minute later: "It seems to be stationary. I'm also orbiting and the thing is orbiting on top of me also. It has a green light and a sort of metallic light on the outside." Valentich then radioed that his engine was running roughly. His last words were: "It is not an aircraft."

The Australian Air Force said it had received 11 reports from people along the coast who said they saw UFOs on Saturday night, but the Transport Department was skeptical. Ken Williams, a spokesman for the department, said, "It's funny all these people ringing up with UFO reports well after Valentich's disappearance. It seems people often decide after the event, they too had seen strange lights. But although we can't take them too seriously, we can never discourgae such reports when investigating a plane's disappearance."

SNIP...

[font size="5"]ACTUAL TRANSCRIPTION OF MELBOURNE FLIGHT SERVICE [/font size]

The transcript portion of the communication between Valentich and Melbourne Flight Service as released by the Australian Department of Transport follows: (FS - Flight Service, DSJ - Frederick Valentich aircraft designation).
1906:14 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet. Is there any known traffic below five thousand?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known traffic.

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I am, seems to be a large aircraft below five thousand.

1906:44 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, What type of aircraft is it?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, I cannot affirm, it is four bright, it seems to me like landing lights.

1907 FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1907:31 DSJ Melbourne, this is Delta Sierra Juliet, the aircraft has just passed over me at least a thousand feet above.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, and it is a large aircraft, confirmed?

DSJ Er-unknown, due to the speed it's travelling, is there any air force aircraft in the vicinity?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, no known aircraft in the vicinity.

1908:18 DSJ Melbourne, it's approaching now from due east towards me.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1908:41 DSJ (open microphone for two seconds.)

1908:48 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, it seems to me that he's playing some sort of game, he's flying over me two, three times at speeds I could not identify.

1909 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what is your actual level?

DSJ My level is four and a half thousand, four five zero zero.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, and you confirm you cannot identify the aircraft?

DSJ Affirmative.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, stand by.

1909:27 DSJ Melbourne, Delta Sierra Juliet, it's not an aircraft it is (open microphone for two seconds).

1909:42 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, can you describe the -er- aircraft?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, as it's flying past it's a long shape (open microphone for three seconds) cannot identify more than it has such speed (open microphone for three seconds). It's before me right now Melbourne.

1910 FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger and how large would the - er - object be?

1910:19 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, Melbourne, it seems like it's stationary. What I'm doing right now is orbiting and the thing is just orbiting on top of me also. It's got a green light and sort of metallic like, it's all shiny on the outside.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1910:46 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet (open microphone for three seconds) It's just vanished.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911 DSJ Melbourne, would you know what kind of aircraft I've got? Is it a military aircraft?

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, Confirm the - er ~ aircraft just vanished.

DSJ Say again.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, is the aircraft still with you?

DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet; it's (open microphone for two seconds) now approaching from the south-west.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet

1911:50 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet, the engine is rough-idling. I've got it set at twenty three twenty-four and the thing is coughing.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet, roger, what are your intentions?

DSJ My intentions are - ah - to go to King Island - ah - Melbourne. That strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again (open microphone for two seconds). It is hovering and it's not an aircraft.

FS Delta Sierra Juliet.

1912:28 DSJ Delta Sierra Juliet. Melbourne (open microphone for seventeen seconds).

SOURCE: http://www.ufocasebook.com/australianpilot.html



Don't take it as a put-down. Some people are real closed-minded when it comes to UFOs.
Bernie Could Still Win [View all] Octafish Apr 2016 OP
Nope. nt onehandle Apr 2016 #1
That smear about gun violence was effective. Octafish Apr 2016 #4
Bernie sunk himself when he said that Hillary was unqualified. That was the lowest I've ever seen. grossproffit Apr 2016 #7
Was that the time he invited himself to the Vatican to see the Pope? Octafish Apr 2016 #13
The Hail Mary Papal ambush was an epic fail redstateblues Apr 2016 #32
He should have kept that "meeting" of Pope Francis to himself. grossproffit Apr 2016 #34
He was quiet about it. Hill fans politicized it. senz Apr 2016 #61
This place needed about a hundred fainting couches for that week. polly7 Apr 2016 #82
They were over the top arikara Apr 2016 #102
I'm so sick of the misquoting of what Bernie Sanders said with regard to "unqualified." bjo59 Apr 2016 #53
Yes. She had demeaned him personally and then he stayed theoretical. senz Apr 2016 #57
exactly Vattel Apr 2016 #109
That is not even up for debate. Mrs. Cllnton did worst when she was running against akbacchus_BC Apr 2016 #54
Bernie CAN Still Win.. As Hillary HAs Pending Significant Legal Problems! The SHOE WILL DROP! CorporatistNation Apr 2016 #15
Praying for the email fairy? Pretty pathetic redstateblues Apr 2016 #33
But those 150 agents aren't investigating Clinton. No shoes are dropping. George II Apr 2016 #41
You mean this? nolawarlock Apr 2016 #31
Clinton approved $120M of Sandy Hook gun maker sales: amborin Apr 2016 #48
Not only pushes guns, then she's a hypocrite about it later. senz Apr 2016 #58
Thanks, that's the one! Octafish Apr 2016 #72
She has so many .......... repulsive (but helpful!) ........... friends. nt. polly7 Apr 2016 #84
She really does. Octafish Apr 2016 #87
Thanks so much, Octafish. polly7 Apr 2016 #89
Here's the pic that got to me, polly7. Octafish Apr 2016 #91
Goldman-Sachs said he could live with Clinton as president. As did the Koch Bros and rhett o rick Apr 2016 #113
The super delegates hold the key RobertEarl Apr 2016 #2
logical? jcgoldie Apr 2016 #6
300 delegates out of 4,000+ RobertEarl Apr 2016 #10
I don't need to stop saying it jcgoldie Apr 2016 #19
No. Just stop RobertEarl Apr 2016 #25
The superdelegates leftynyc Apr 2016 #67
But it is a majority, so the majority of superdelegates (according to the SANDERS campaign).... George II Apr 2016 #42
It would depend on what things look like in the summer. Octafish Apr 2016 #9
It is an open convention RobertEarl Apr 2016 #12
I read that it isn't about the emails.... lmbradford Apr 2016 #38
LOL leftynyc Apr 2016 #68
Wonder is she will look pretty in orange? yourpaljoey Apr 2016 #78
Aren't YOU the author of the OP? George II Apr 2016 #43
Hell, I can see a contested convention.. dchill Apr 2016 #52
If "charges have been made" then there wouldn't be an investigation. You people have to... George II Apr 2016 #80
What are YOU reading? dchill Apr 2016 #103
What are YOU reading? Exactly what is being investigated? Do you know? George II Apr 2016 #105
I posted the OP. I did not write it. Octafish Apr 2016 #71
Many of them committed to her in tacit exchange for donation kickbacks through their JudyM Apr 2016 #24
True RobertEarl Apr 2016 #27
The best kept secret right now is which states made that jwirr Apr 2016 #108
One minute ... Super Delegates are BAD BAD BAD ... JoePhilly Apr 2016 #69
They were so undemocratic treestar Apr 2016 #85
I get the sense some of these folks ... JoePhilly Apr 2016 #88
Indictment? Is that all you've got? Zynx Apr 2016 #3
Bernie may go on the attack. Octafish Apr 2016 #11
He won't go there, even if there is there...there. Zynx Apr 2016 #16
Wow. That's batchit crazy. Who are these people? grossproffit Apr 2016 #35
MSM has never been more of an ethical disappointment than in its silence in this primary about JudyM Apr 2016 #28
She doesn't have legal problems. Please stop believing fantasies. nt BreakfastClub Apr 2016 #29
Fantasy? Get a clue. JudyM Apr 2016 #30
She's knee deep in legal problems. 840high Apr 2016 #62
I think they where worse selling Iraq War to American public Gwhittey Apr 2016 #37
You've got a point, there! JudyM Apr 2016 #39
I could win Powerball...same odds of sanders beachbum bob Apr 2016 #5
Good point. But if you don't buy the Lottery Ticket, the odds of winning approach zero. Octafish Apr 2016 #14
Do you actually understand the difference between the notional value of derivatives versus the Zynx Apr 2016 #17
No, but Brooksley Born does. Octafish Apr 2016 #23
Had every main Clinton supporter on this site pegged as one. JimDandy Apr 2016 #36
Excellent Read noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #8
Thanks! Here's an important read you might enjoy... Octafish Apr 2016 #75
Thanks Octafish noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #86
The Spartacus Youth League - WOW! Octafish Apr 2016 #92
Thanks noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #93
Could be applied in the USA. Are we crazy to put another jwirr Apr 2016 #110
Back in 1975, Sen. Frank Church (D-Idaho) warned us, so NSA spied on him... Octafish Apr 2016 #114
Am I correct that he was the last of the big FDR liberals to jwirr Apr 2016 #115
There are so many shoes that have yet to fall with Hillary.. Melissa G Apr 2016 #18
Lots of shoes...and why DU matters. Octafish Apr 2016 #81
Thank you for shining a light and providing such useful information! Melissa G Apr 2016 #94
You are most welcome! Got to stand up for Skinner and the Admins. Octafish Apr 2016 #95
DU is the place for Dems on the net Melissa G Apr 2016 #107
If the OP is silly enough to believe this, then open an Irish brokerage account Gothmog Apr 2016 #20
Today I had a conversation with my congressman's aide. grasswire Apr 2016 #21
Wow. Interesting! JudyM Apr 2016 #26
He was probably just trying to get you off the phone. CorkySt.Clair Apr 2016 #47
I wasn't on the phone. grasswire Apr 2016 #49
OMG!!! NanceGreggs Apr 2016 #64
Which Congressman? Many people are? Like Trump supporters? redstateblues Apr 2016 #50
He's right. 840high Apr 2016 #63
I know it. And on the right side of history. nt grasswire Apr 2016 #97
Which is what matters. Octafish Apr 2016 #100
Will this one fall in February 2017 is the question... Wednesdays Apr 2016 #106
So author is saying Bernie could still win if Hillary is politically assassinated? moriah Apr 2016 #22
No. Author is saying Bernie could still win. Hillary doesn't have anything wrapped up. Zen Democrat Apr 2016 #40
An FBI indictment for one's own actions senz Apr 2016 #59
Doesn't HRC still need to win 729 delegates, to get the nomination? So conceivably, neither can get amborin Apr 2016 #44
And monkeys could fly out my butt...nt SidDithers Apr 2016 #45
As opposed to staying put? Ah! That explains a lot. bvf Apr 2016 #74
Said the poster who will never vote for Hillary. Octafish Apr 2016 #79
Bernie IS going to win! Most likely. Joob Apr 2016 #46
Ancient Alien Theorists say redstateblues Apr 2016 #51
... and if that's true ... JoePhilly Apr 2016 #70
Why you keep raising my hopes? I really wish Mr. Sanders could win the nomination. akbacchus_BC Apr 2016 #55
Thanks for sharing Octa. nt 7wo7rees Apr 2016 #56
For the sake of this country and its people, let us hope so. senz Apr 2016 #60
Yes, he could, but Bernie's always been winning; and the rest of us won the day in May 2015 merrily Apr 2016 #65
No one was trying to 'write him off'. Many said he couldn't win. And that was proven correct. randome Apr 2016 #73
Yeah, and if I were taller and a bit younger I could run for Miss America. Beacool Apr 2016 #66
Supporters of Sanders need to either double down on donating and working or jump ship. jMO merrily Apr 2016 #76
Oh geez. treestar Apr 2016 #77
It is comical now Stuckinthebush Apr 2016 #83
Four More Years of Trickle Down doesn't make me happy. Octafish Apr 2016 #90
Still in to win, and will stay in until. nt Zorra Apr 2016 #96
You mean if aliens rock Apr 2016 #98
You mean like Hillary's chum John Podesta talks about? Octafish Apr 2016 #99
Like I say rock Apr 2016 #101
Four names stand for what I know about UFOs: Mantell, Moncla, Wilson, Valentich. Octafish Apr 2016 #104
I didn't read the whole thing. As soon as I got to your delegate count I knew it was a sham. pdsimdars Apr 2016 #111
Superdelegates -- including them in your total pdsimdars Apr 2016 #112
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