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2016 Postmortem

In reply to the discussion: Post removed [View all]

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
11. Systemic change happens from the bottom-up.
Mon Jun 20, 2016, 11:27 AM
Jun 2016

1) Clinton wins big
2) Clinton wins by a small margin
3) Trump wins

Which of those scenarios is most likely to help enable the masses to lay the groundwork for progressive change? I think the answer is clearly #1, especially since #1 also means Dems have won more of the down-ticket races than they would in the other scenarios. Trump winning would send a horrible message (particularly to POC, women and the international community). A narrow victory for Clinton would give her administration even less reason to push for progressive legislation.

I know you said you'll be voting for Clinton, so the above is more for the benefit of others.

More to the point of your thread:

I get that there's a valid leftist critique of the Democratic Party and of the US political system as a whole. I really do. But I also think our individualistic culture overemphasizes the power and influence of individual actors, while underestimating systemic forces. Sanders was never viable and his was a message campaign (and, as a result, his campaign could promote a platform that never would have been realized), but even if he were to become POTUS, his administration would either end up operating in similar fashion to the Obama Admin or he'd be completely stymied.

And our instant gratification culture has an unrealistic expectation of how (and how quickly) systemic change happens. I don't invest much energy in national politics, as I think local politics and local organization are key to bringing about systemic change. Bottom-up, not top-down. Planting seeds in the collective consciousness, recognizing that the extent of change I'd like to see won't be fully realized in my lifetime (some--young and old alike--simply can't accept that, so they cling to unrealistic expectations, which is not the least bit constructive).

As for money in politics, campaign contributions don't have as much impact on election results or even legislation as many believe. The big money in politics problem is the way politicians are getting rich while in office (by having access to insider stock knowledge, by pushing legislation that increases the value of land they own back in their home state, etc.).

Post removed [View all] Post removed Jun 2016 OP
Sorry...we didn't buy the BS. The better candidate won....by a lot. LexVegas Jun 2016 #1
I'll add that to the "flame away" column. Armstead Jun 2016 #2
You using that to refer to the Senator... peace13 Jun 2016 #5
You mean like corporate whore? Or Corpratist? Or "tools of the oligarchy?" Mr Maru Jun 2016 #15
"Buy a lot" is the perhaps the better term when referring to Hillary. pinebox Jun 2016 #31
Less than half of less than half of less than half of voters. Bernie; America's chocie! CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #3
Your math is weird. But if that's what floats your boat, carry on Armstead Jun 2016 #4
Less than half voted. Roughly half voted D. Less than half picked Bernie. That's about 8% of the US. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #7
Of those that voted Dem, Sanders got 45% of those votes. Roughly. Goblinmonger Jun 2016 #19
It's more than Bernie, and she's not claiming to have a 'revolution' behind her. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #26
Nope! Your figures are wrong. He got only 35% of Democratic voters brush Jun 2016 #30
Let's figure rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #8
Glad to hear it. NurseJackie Jun 2016 #6
OK, Armstead... is this just to get in another jab before the deadline? Come on man... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #9
I disagree with your candidate choice.... Adrahil Jun 2016 #10
CHEETO JESUS Mr Maru Jun 2016 #17
Systemic change happens from the bottom-up. Garrett78 Jun 2016 #11
It never hurts to have a solid advocate at the top... TCJ70 Jun 2016 #20
Have you ever supported Democrats? joshcryer Jun 2016 #12
Other than GOP vs Democrats, I would never presume to 'know' who is a better choice. randome Jun 2016 #13
Woo Hoo laserhaas Jun 2016 #14
Applause! Arazi Jun 2016 #16
Can you go to hillaryclinton.com and point out what part of her agenda is "Corporate/Wall St Owned"? YouDig Jun 2016 #18
Hillary is ready to go Fracking. Doesn't seem to mind giving oil Corps tax breaks. rgbecker Jun 2016 #23
If you believe single payer health care is doable, then Sanders is your choice... midnight Jun 2016 #21
Won't be doable with a leader who doesn't want to do it. rgbecker Jun 2016 #24
Talk about your captive customer base-mandatory purchase of private insurance… midnight Jun 2016 #32
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #22
things will continue as before: money will walk over three hundred million boys and girls MisterP Jun 2016 #25
If it comes down to it Faux pas Jun 2016 #27
I used to think you were a serious contributer LoverOfLiberty Jun 2016 #28
to quote our current POTUS rbrnmw Jun 2016 #29
How about we lobby to make our presumptive nominee a better candidate? Orsino Jun 2016 #33
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