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JCanete

(5,272 posts)
53. Look, I myself am voting for Hillary, mostly because Bernie was able to move the party
Wed Jul 27, 2016, 12:41 PM
Jul 2016

platform left, if only in a token and non-binding way. I'm going to try to be hopeful and be part of the people "helping" the future President and the party remember and enact its liberal obligations, but when I was on the fence, it had nothing to do with Bernie or Bust, or wanting Trump to be President.

If my dilemma had ever been as simple as voting "the lesser of two evils," then yes, it would have been a no brainer, as people want to depict it now, to vote for Clinton. My very real concern was that we were all just playing into a kabuki theater of politics ... a good cop bad cop that continued to result in a nation and planet sliding into the abyss. I still feel very strongly that we owe the Trumps and future Trumps of our nation to the last 30 years of the corporatist wing of the democratic party--the dominant wing--as much as to the wholly owned GOP, because together, they have taken us backwards on so many fronts, a consequence of pro-corporate legislation and being almost entirely mum on issues of campaign finance, small business killing trade deals, Wall Street deregulation, and on and on. I still feel very strongly that this happened in large part because the population has been in equal parts lulled to sleep and convinced to give up on our political system.

Both parties have been content to fight over the symptoms, which as a democrat, amounts to really bad strategy if you want to make the world a better place(and if you want to actually distinguish yourself from the fiscal policies of the GOP in ways that are popular), or really good strategy if divide and conquer is your game and you are working for the same corporate interests. We've avoided class warfare like the plague, which could have been the thing that galvanized the poor and the middle class together, rather than allowing the GOP to divide us with race baiting, wage shaming of public employees, etc.. Together, the parties have eroded the power of labor unions to just a ghost of what they once were. Our schools have gotten worse at the hands of both parties, and an undereducated populace is now freaking out about losing its shirt. Well its no surprise that there are predators waiting there to help them turn their frustrations on each other.

Wouldn't it have been nice if our party hadn't been working for(and weren't one in the same as) the very people that we could have legitimately channeled that righteous rage towards?(btw, not looking for a Bastille Day, people are people, and rich people aren't bad, they just have too much power to advocate their own self interests). Wouldn't it have been nice if we had had a message that wasn't so easily filtered and distorted through the reactionary lens of "if you are fighting for them you are fighting against me," that has been propped up by our corporate media?

I just wasn't so happy about adding my vote to a Clinton "mandate," if what I was going to get for it was messaging from the media and the party that said the voters clearly approve of more corporatism. I would never vote for Trump because there's no way I'm adding my vote to his mandate or popularity, and I think he's a horrible embarrassment, and that his damage to our standing in the world would be a legacy that we would feel for some time. But if my opinion is that we're all sleeping at the wheel while we drive towards a cliff, and that a Trump is going to step on the gas and wake us the fuck up, and if on top of that, my opinion is that this man is so dangerous and unpopular that we might actually get some bipartisan activity in opposing him and shutting down his agenda, not to mention bringing some direct Sunlight to his politics and world-view that they can't possibly survive the disinfectant,

and most importantly, if I am convinced that if we don't drastically change our trajectory as a party and a nation that we are going to get more and more popular demagogues like Trump for the privilege
, then I appreciate a more analytical and thoughtful means of persuasion than simplistic memes and shaming techniques. I know that Bernie or Busters, purists, or just cynics like myself, come in all flavors, and there are some that truly were courted from a more right-wing mindset(which is an accomplishment, not a failing of his campaign), and maybe their reasons for never voting for Clinton are weak and unexamined, and that my own process can't be applied to everyone, but I don't think it does any service to unity or mutual understanding to try to paint everybody with a broad brush, nor does it serve to tackle the very serious misgivings that may be keeping some people from coming over.

Edit:

So here are some good reasons to vote for Clinton and push a democratic ticket loudly:

the Presidential ticket usually drives voters. If we have depressed turnout, we may lose even more seats in congress and the Senate.(I don't know what the current seats at risk for taking or losing are at this time) So, even though I never had any intention of not voting down-ticket, an enthusiasm gap could really hurt getting people to the polls. Whether any of these individual democrats are particularly good or bad is probably worth determining on an individual basis, but we know what it looks like when republicans aren't stymied by gridlock. Yeah, I think they're both working for the money, but one side does it a hell of a lot slower than the other does. Democrats have a different base to appease after all, so please god lets not stop sounding like liberals in our own party. Even if Trump has no shot in hell, Hillary could inherit a really conservative congress and senate, and I don't have high hopes for what attempts at compromise are going to look like.

If there is any hope of pushing Hillary left, then she actually needs that mandate to enact left policies. Whether that is going to happen remains to be seen, but assuming the best, the more support she has from an engaged left, the more likely she can and will do something for us.

Supreme Court Justices: Hopefully we don't get appointments like the one Obama just put up, which I guess was a smart political play because he knew that he could make the republicans look ridiculous by turning it down, but I'm hoping for somebody far less conservative on fiscal issues. The question is whether we can get that from Clinton, but we know we can't from Trump.

That describes the future of a Bob liberal N proud Jul 2016 #1
That sums up how I feel about "Democrats" who are helping Trump. Doodley Jul 2016 #2
Yes. We must defeat Trump's more obvious form of Oligarchy. The Far Left Jul 2016 #35
Trump needs to be inevestigate if he is working with Putin to attack America lewebley3 Jul 2016 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author geek tragedy Jul 2016 #3
No one actually said that. iandhr Jul 2016 #4
What? I thought that was a photograph. Are you sure it's not? Akamai Jul 2016 #14
+1 n/t. okieinpain Jul 2016 #17
If Trump gets elected, even cameras will go to crap. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #21
K & R SunSeeker Jul 2016 #5
K & R nt TeamPooka Jul 2016 #6
K & R! calimary Jul 2016 #7
K & R 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #8
I hate to laugh but it is kinda true amuse bouche Jul 2016 #9
And then Stryder Jul 2016 #25
I can't help wondering "what if". Jim Lane Jul 2016 #28
Something Bad pdxflyboy Jul 2016 #47
^^^ Yes. And the ship of state does not turn on a dime - it will turn over. ehrnst Jul 2016 #58
you nor heaven05 Jul 2016 #52
And Our Corrupt Government Will Stay Corrupt Yallow Jul 2016 #10
This isn't a place for people who want to throw their vote away realmirage Jul 2016 #12
Amen! Although I am a heathen -- you're correct!!! Akamai Jul 2016 #15
That's incredibly foolish logic. RiverNoord Jul 2016 #65
So you want to hit the suicide button for everyone realmirage Jul 2016 #69
This message was self-deleted by its author RiverNoord Jul 2016 #75
Your fucking reply title had an insult in it. realmirage Jul 2016 #77
Let me explain a little bit realmirage Jul 2016 #70
This message was self-deleted by its author RiverNoord Jul 2016 #76
Yeah, because Donald "I'm beholden to the Russian mafia thucythucy Jul 2016 #18
Is that the stamping of feet I hear? Rose Siding Jul 2016 #33
This message was self-deleted by its author Midnight Writer Jul 2016 #36
As if our government was ever corruption free - but at least we won't be living Mad Max with Hillary ehrnst Jul 2016 #54
I'm a big Bernista . . FairWinds Jul 2016 #11
Nobody wants you to shut up about those things realmirage Jul 2016 #13
+1! nt BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #19
This! People can vote for Hillary... Beartracks Jul 2016 #16
absolutely right - we can't afford to lose this one. None of us can. realmirage Jul 2016 #23
... IronLionZion Jul 2016 #27
Hey, where did you get . . FairWinds Jul 2016 #50
No one wants you to stfu. Your voice on those issues is needed. Fla Dem Jul 2016 #45
Who said STFU? Join Bernie in carrying things forward. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2016 #55
It's a Berniephobe mocking Sanders people who haven't come around yet. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #63
All those kids are going to be working in the Gulag bucolic_frolic Jul 2016 #20
Wait, did you just say "kids?" How very un-PC of you. Those people are adults! MoonRiver Jul 2016 #48
"Can I just say to the Bernie or bust people, you're being ridiculous" red dog 1 Jul 2016 #22
you're not understanding how much sexism plays into the election Skittles Jul 2016 #24
Yes!! ^^^ THIS!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2016 #46
Sexism plays a role, but not among people on the left, for Goddess sakes. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #64
LOL Skittles Jul 2016 #67
People who preferred Bernie to HRC(a group that included a lot of women)did so on the issues. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #72
dup Skittles Jul 2016 #73
I wasn't even talking about Bernie Skittles Jul 2016 #74
I'm sorry. Ken Burch Jul 2016 #78
Hillary has been trashed far more than her fair share Skittles Jul 2016 #80
A now unified party thanks Bernie and looks to overthrowing the Repub Congress. #StrongerTogether L. Coyote Jul 2016 #29
I'm glad she didn't choose Sen Warren, but she could have chosen someone with a personality MidwestTech Jul 2016 #49
"We NEED Elizabeth Warren in the Senate"? red dog 1 Jul 2016 #61
Hold your CHILD and vote for Hillary. Bernie is. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2016 #56
Is that a little "Trump-Pence" sign you have there? red dog 1 Jul 2016 #59
It's the joke GIF from Samantha Bee auntpurl Jul 2016 #66
Thanks for clearing that up for me. red dog 1 Jul 2016 #68
Great cartoon Gothmog Jul 2016 #26
LOL! Feet are stamped............. raven mad Jul 2016 #30
Thanks for your hard work! Stronger Together! Gotta say, Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #31
I'll work as hard as I did for Barack. raven mad Jul 2016 #32
We call them by their first names in Minnesota too. dflprincess Jul 2016 #34
K & R! Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #37
K & R Scurrilous Jul 2016 #38
Duplicate post That Guy 888 Jul 2016 #39
Which is why I hope some people take it to heart ffr Jul 2016 #40
Can't agree. HRC wins or looses based on HRC. LarryNM Jul 2016 #41
Inaction is also action, and has a moral consequence. ehrnst Jul 2016 #57
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #42
K&R ExtraGriz Jul 2016 #43
I'll pull the lever for Hillary, but that is because I'll vote against trump Victor_c3 Jul 2016 #44
Look, I myself am voting for Hillary, mostly because Bernie was able to move the party JCanete Jul 2016 #53
Grow up Wibly Jul 2016 #60
Actually, this is a cartoon. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #62
ROFL! recommended! Bill USA Jul 2016 #71
This is so common I have made a guess. If the daily bashing of Sanders supporters continues Todays_Illusion Jul 2016 #79
Kicked! AgadorSparticus Jul 2016 #81
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