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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Progressive Pragmatism versus Liberal Elitism [View all]LWolf
(46,179 posts)18. What do you mean by
"pandering?" Taking positions that she doesn't mean to get votes, or taking money from corporations and supporting their policies? Really, all you have to do to say that no one provides a "concrete example" is to disagree that the examples demonstrate "pandering." It's not likely you'd acknowledge any example provided you, concrete or not.
One could say she doesn't mean what she says because she seems to shift her stances with every poll, but when anyone claims that, they're told she's "evolving," and that her evolution should be embraced. That's "evolving," and "triangulating." Or, from my perspective, it's pandering by taking positions she doesn't mean to get votes.
Related: Clintons Big Switch from Moderate to Liberal Activist
This has sent a chill into the hearts of a particular Washington specimen: the self-appointed guardians of order. Mark Halperin flatly accused Clinton of lying about her opposition to TPP. Others pointed to Clintons praise for TPP in her recent book, or the 45 times shes spoken out in favor of it. And Ezra Klein pronounced himself unnerved because it shows her as calculating and poll-driven.
In other words, the theory goes, Clinton is pandering, taking a position that she may not sincerely support to appease a faction of the constituency she wants in her corner. Unions dont like TPP or the Cadillac tax, and with Bernie Sanders breathing down her neck, Clinton had to adjust her profile to keep their endorsements rolling in.
There are definitely signs that Clinton had prior (and very possibly, future) support for TPP. Her top policy advisor on the deal while at the State Department, Robert Hormats, praised it the day before she came out against it. If you take the temperature of those in her policy orbit, you would probably find more supporters than opponents.
This has sent a chill into the hearts of a particular Washington specimen: the self-appointed guardians of order. Mark Halperin flatly accused Clinton of lying about her opposition to TPP. Others pointed to Clintons praise for TPP in her recent book, or the 45 times shes spoken out in favor of it. And Ezra Klein pronounced himself unnerved because it shows her as calculating and poll-driven.
In other words, the theory goes, Clinton is pandering, taking a position that she may not sincerely support to appease a faction of the constituency she wants in her corner. Unions dont like TPP or the Cadillac tax, and with Bernie Sanders breathing down her neck, Clinton had to adjust her profile to keep their endorsements rolling in.
There are definitely signs that Clinton had prior (and very possibly, future) support for TPP. Her top policy advisor on the deal while at the State Department, Robert Hormats, praised it the day before she came out against it. If you take the temperature of those in her policy orbit, you would probably find more supporters than opponents.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2015/10/09/Praise-Hillary-Clinton-s-Shameless-Pandering
If pandering involves her somewhat questionable dealings with corporations, DUers are certainly not alone in pointing them out. Again, I doubt that you'd ever acknowledge the obvious, concrete problems with her corporate ties.
Selling support for nuclear deal with India:
Although Hillary Clinton was a vocal advocate for nonproliferation during her 2008 presidential bid, she seemingly shifted gears on the issue after well-connected Indian officials lavished her husband with paid speaking engagements, and his foundation with generous donations.
Indian money began flowing to the philanthropy after a bill that would have softened restrictions on nuclear trade with the country met resistance in Congress. At the time, then-New York Sen. Hillary Clinton was an opponent of the legislation.
Amar Singh, a member of India's parliament, began to pour money into the Clinton Foundation. He donated between $1 million and $5 million, even though it was later revealed his entire net worth was only $5 million.
After a two-hour dinner with Hillary Clinton in New York City in September 2008, Singh told the press in his country that Hillary Clinton had informed him Democrats would not block the nuclear deal and that she had promised to give "all the support" it needed to pass.
Although Hillary Clinton was a vocal advocate for nonproliferation during her 2008 presidential bid, she seemingly shifted gears on the issue after well-connected Indian officials lavished her husband with paid speaking engagements, and his foundation with generous donations.
Indian money began flowing to the philanthropy after a bill that would have softened restrictions on nuclear trade with the country met resistance in Congress. At the time, then-New York Sen. Hillary Clinton was an opponent of the legislation.
Amar Singh, a member of India's parliament, began to pour money into the Clinton Foundation. He donated between $1 million and $5 million, even though it was later revealed his entire net worth was only $5 million.
After a two-hour dinner with Hillary Clinton in New York City in September 2008, Singh told the press in his country that Hillary Clinton had informed him Democrats would not block the nuclear deal and that she had promised to give "all the support" it needed to pass.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/top-10-clinton-conflicts-of-interest/article/2564035
Friday's news actually brings two, somewhat-related stories about questionable practices at the Clinton Foundation, the charitable organization that Bill Clinton created after leaving the White House. Reuters notes that when she became secretary of state in 2009, Hillary Clinton pledged to President Obama that the foundation would issue an annual report of all of its donors, to ease worries about foreign influence on the nation's top diplomat. That promise soon fell by the wayside, though: The Clinton Health Access Initiative, by far the foundation's largest element, hasn't issued a report since 2010. (CHAI was spun off that year, but remains subject to the same rules.) An official acknowledged the mistake.
Meanwhile, The Wall Street Journal notes that while the foundation also forswore donations from foreign governments while Hillary Clinton was helming the State Department, "that didnt stop the foundation from raising millions of dollars from foreigners with connections to their home governments, a review of foundation disclosures shows." Specifically:
Meanwhile, The Wall Street Journal notes that while the foundation also forswore donations from foreign governments while Hillary Clinton was helming the State Department, "that didnt stop the foundation from raising millions of dollars from foreigners with connections to their home governments, a review of foundation disclosures shows." Specifically:
One is a member of the Saudi royal family. Another is a Ukrainian oligarch and former parliamentarian. Others are individuals with close connections to foreign governments that stem from their business activities. Their professed policy interests range from human rights to U.S.-Cuba relations.
All told, more than a dozen foreign individuals and their foundations and companies were large donors to the Clinton Foundation in the years after Mrs. Clinton became secretary of state in 2009, collectively giving between $34 million and $68 million, foundation records show. Some donors also provided funding directly to charitable projects sponsored by the foundation, valued by the organization at $60 million.
All told, more than a dozen foreign individuals and their foundations and companies were large donors to the Clinton Foundation in the years after Mrs. Clinton became secretary of state in 2009, collectively giving between $34 million and $68 million, foundation records show. Some donors also provided funding directly to charitable projects sponsored by the foundation, valued by the organization at $60 million.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/hillarys-campaign-is-built-on-a-shaky-foundation/388324/
Interestingly enough, this is the most I've posted about HRC since the primaries began. I'll point out that it's only because you asked. I don't really have any interest in spending time talking about Clinton.
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Our government is supposed to work for the best of our people, not Asian countries' people.
JonLeibowitz
Dec 2015
#104
$11 is even more realistic. Why not $9.09? Super-realistic! How about scrip at Wal-mart?
Scootaloo
Dec 2015
#84
A Corporate Democrat that serves the Corps and 1% to the detriment of the 99% is NOT a Progressive
Skwmom
Dec 2015
#21
Bernie is pragmatic and Hillary is not progressive. Other than that, I still don't agree. (nt)
anti partisan
Dec 2015
#25
With sufficient voters turning out in the elections to elect democratic majorities? Anything.
JonLeibowitz
Dec 2015
#105
progressive pragmatist take their money from Wall Street while liberal elitist take their money
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#35
oh there are!! Although I never personally met one but sure the hell wish I was one
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#56
the core of Bernie's campaign are the grassroots activist. Though I have made it a habit to avoid
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#114
just a bit premature to say that now, isn't it? Some seem to equate pushing the progressive agenda
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#116
Not all at - 25 years to show he can't accomplish anything is not enough time?
MaggieD
Dec 2015
#117
the people of Vermont who keep reelecting him by overwhelming landslides don't agree
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#119
I pledge to support Hillary if she is the nominee? Do you pledge to support Bernie if he is the
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#129
Is he supporting Bernie or anyone from the left-wing of the Democratic Party? His fortune largely
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#65
This LGBT activist who was out and active way back to the late 70's disagrees with you very strongly
Bluenorthwest
Dec 2015
#54
You don't know what he was up to then and you sure have no business claiming he was not an activist.
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#112
that's not what others remember. Practically every LGBT person I know likes Bernie and Hillary
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#139
Supporters of other candidates are woefully outnumbered on the internet, so it's to be expected.
Tarheel_Dem
Dec 2015
#182
I note that you hurl venonous accusations but never any evidence or specificity. HRC? Not my folks.
Bluenorthwest
Dec 2015
#171
"Stonewall means gay people want incremental progress!!" Remember that chant? I sure do. Just like
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#74
One does not push for the minimum of what they can get to accomplish the goal - they push for the
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#111
there was a time when social security was pie in the sky and gay marriage was certainly pie in the
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#138
The Stonewall activists were not thinking of marriage at all, Mags, they wanted the cops to stop
Bluenorthwest
Dec 2015
#168
I Never Said Anybody Was Stupid...I Just Suggested They May Be Voting Against Themselves...
WillyT
Dec 2015
#50
Hillary and her rich asshole buddies are the elitists. You fool no one.
Bread and Circus
Dec 2015
#58
I am just saying it's not a big deal and that throwing around John Lewis as a defense of stupid
Bread and Circus
Dec 2015
#99
Actually no and if you looked up my posts on Killer Mike I said it was cool but wouldn't change much
Bread and Circus
Dec 2015
#103
You seem really scared and insecure considering how well Clinton is doing in the polls. Perhaps you
Bread and Circus
Dec 2015
#100
What do you mean by "progressive" versus "liberal"? Sanders is more progressive and more liberal
Attorney in Texas
Dec 2015
#86
"liberal elitism" a phrase created in conservaative think tanks why use it? and if you want to see
Todays_Illusion
Dec 2015
#91
And I hate that Hillary is turning the Democratic party Republican and blaiming liberals for it.
Todays_Illusion
Dec 2015
#96
he was the first campaign that Bill and Hillary really threw themselves into
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#145
This op nicely sums up everything that is wrong with the Democratic party today
Kentonio
Dec 2015
#157
I would counter that Obama was NOT the pragmatic choice early on, by any stretch
Turn CO Blue
Dec 2015
#165
Almost never agree with ME? I hardly ever post at all, rarely if ever start a discussion.
Turn CO Blue
Dec 2015
#181
I have never seen a so-called LGBT "activist" know so little of LGBT history before
Prism
Dec 2015
#179
The premise of your article makes my face twitch furiously as a political scientist.
Chan790
Dec 2015
#188