Shadow of Vietnam Falls Over Iraq River Raids -NYT

[Rose Siding]

HARD DUWAISH, Iraq, Nov. 28 - As marines aboard fast patrol boats roared up the Euphrates on a dawn raid on Sunday, images pressed in of another American war where troops moved up wide rivers on camouflaged boats, with machine-gunners nervously scanning riverbanks for the hidden enemy.

That war is rarely mentioned among the American troops in Iraq, many of whom were not yet born when the last American combat units withdrew from Vietnam more than 30 years ago. A war that America did not win is considered a bad talisman among those men and women, who privately admit to fears that this war could be lost.

But as an orange moon sank below the bulrushes on Sunday morning, thoughts of Vietnam were hard to avoid.

Marines waded ashore through soft silted mud that caused some to sink to their waists, M-16 rifles held skyward as others on solid land held out their rifle barrels as lifelines.

Ashore, sodden and with boots squelching mud, the troops began a five-hour tramp through dense palm groves and across paddies crisscrossed by deep irrigation canals......

http://nytimes.com/2004/11/29/international/middleeast/29search.html?hp&ex=1101704400&en=1c4a63d2e96b7115&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[VegasWolf]

1. The shadow of Vietnam has long hung over Iraq. Only repigs

are to stupid to notice.

[IndianaGreen]

2. "a high-tech update on the Swift boats used in Vietnam."

The 40-foot river craft they used are called Surcs, for Small Unit Riverine Craft, a high-tech update on the Swift boats used in Vietnam. The craft were flown into Iraq aboard giant C-5 transport aircraft and were first deployed with five-man crews during the battle for Falluja this month, patrolling the stretch of the Euphrates that runs along the city's western edge to prevent attempts by insurgents to escape that way after American troops had thrown a cordon around the city.

I wonder if a future Presidential candidate is now serving with the Marines aboard a SURC in a war that cannot be won, and a war that was completely avoidable.

[purduejake]

3. It would take a true patriot...

to love this country enough to be involved in it's government after the war we are putting them through. We'll probably see a great president come out of this assuming we still have elections at that point.

[robertarctor]

5. Yeah.

I wonder if a future Presidential candidate is now serving with the Marines aboard a SURC in a war that cannot be won, and a war that was completely avoidable.

Yep. And he or she will run as a Democrat, and lose in a rigged election, to a member of the Bush family who didn't bother to serve.

[VegasWolf]

6. Indiana, aren't you assuming that someone will want to be

president of this country in 30 years, or that it will even
be a country of 50 states? I'm for succession!

[IndianaGreen]

8. I think you meant to say "secession"

The fundies want to secede, and many of us would like to see the blue states join Canada (I am more than willing to move to Canada). All of this foretells that the once great United States of America may not survive this century in its current form.

[Benhurst]

9. If things continue going the way they have since the Coup of 2000,

it will be a blessing for the world if it doesn't.

[VegasWolf]

10. Damn worthless spellchecker doesn't check for semantic errors.

[Benhurst]

13. Yeah, I know the feeling. I'm sure you're not for succession --

that's what we've got. One f**king Bush after another.

[NNN0LHI]

16. In this "secession" (succession) plan, who gets to keep the nukes?

Just curious.

Don

[IndianaGreen]

19. Our huge stockpile of nukes has not made us any safer

Let Jesusland keep their precious nukes, with all the radioactive waste that goes along with them, and let the new Canadian provinces enjoy a level of peace and freedom we had not experienced in decades.

[NNN0LHI]

20. Wait a minute

(In my best Mr. Haney voice from Green Acres I can muster) You want to leave the nukes in the possession of the nuts who believe in some kind of rapture?

Holy smokes IG. Tell me you are joshing me. Please.

Don

[IndianaGreen]

21. Nukes are not real weapons for they ultimately destroy those that use them

As to leaving Bush with his 20K+ nukes, let him deal with the problems of decaying warheads and waste disposal. The civilized world has done fine without nukes and large standing armies, let us join them!

[Nihil]

22. Unfortunately ...

... the way he'd probably "deal with them" is to launch them at some
unsuspecting, innocent country that has no way of fighting back - under
the pretence that there had been a terrorist attack, a potential attack
or even that one or two people shared the thought that an attack would
be a good thing.

The comment about the civilised world is only valid when you are not
dealing with a bunch of madmen (and mad women) who are in unfettered
control of the most powerful armoury on earth.

[Javaman]

7. And I wonder if future assholes are serving in other boats to

defame him.

[KingChicken]

4. Vietnow

[TahitiNut]

12. (Hmmm...) And the Viet Congress?

:eyes:

[Bigmack]

11. I sure hope...

... none of those guys wins medals and gets "small" wounds.

Their lives are shit if that happens!

They'll get called every scummy name in the book and get books written about what cowards they are/were.

Shit! Are the Repubs totally incapable of any sort of reflection?

[Rose Siding]

15. We can fix those "small wounds" right up

Although in this case a full head cast is indicated

[Ernesto]

14. Iraqi "commandos", "elite units"

Same crap I heard in Nam: "crack ARVN troops". HA f#*king HA!
Are we supposed to believe that Iraqi's are going to blow away their cousins for a chinsey pay check?
"They've just about given up" is what the USMC Lieutenant said about the "elite" Iraqi
"commandos".
This story should be heard loud and clear.

[llmart]

17. "this war could be lost"......

it already is assholes. Just because the idiot-in-chief donned a flight suit and pretended we had "won" doesn't make it so. Ask any of us alive during the VietNam fiasco. You don't accomplish anything by going into a country that didn't ask us to be there and pretend you're "liberating them" from something they didn't ask to be liberated from. And you certainly don't do it under those in charge in this administration that not only have never been to war, but haven't even served in the military - and that's all of them.

[DeepModem Mom]

18. Page-one story today --