AP: Navy Probes New Iraq Prisoner Photos(Found on the web)

[RamboLiberal]

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041203/D86ODSU00.html

The U.S. military has launched a criminal investigation into photographs that appear to show Navy SEALs in Iraq sitting on hooded and handcuffed detainees, and photos of what appear to be bloodied prisoners, one with a gun to his head.

Some of the photos have date stamps suggesting they were taken in May 2003, which could make them the earliest evidence of possible abuse of prisoners in Iraq. The far more brutal practices photographed in Abu Ghraib prison occurred months later.

An Associated Press reporter found more than 40 of the pictures among hundreds in an album posted on a commercial photo-sharing Web site by a woman who said her husband brought them from Iraq after his tour of duty. It is unclear who took the pictures, which the Navy said it was investigating after the AP furnished copies to get comment for this story.

These and other photos found by the AP appear to show the immediate aftermath of raids on civilian homes. One man is lying on his back with a boot on his chest. A mug shot shows a man with an automatic weapon pointed at his head and a gloved thumb jabbed into his throat. In many photos, faces have been blacked out. What appears to be blood drips from the heads of some. A family huddles in a room in one photo and others show debris and upturned furniture.

[Mari333]

1. When American citizens blandly share photos of abuse as souveneirs

and get upset because some reporter found them, that in and of itself makes me ill to think that american citizens have become this rabid and barbaric.

[anarchy1999]

20. Hi Mari- been missing you.

Sometimes there appears a post you know you don't want to open, but that you have to.

We've all known about this before Abu Gharib. We knew it was going to happen if we went in, didn't we? I thought most of us here at DU knew. I thank God, for the woman with the overwhelming pride who felt the need to share on the internet these pictures ("Adventures of my husband in Iraq"), for all to see in "their" family album. I thank the God above for the AP reporter who stumbled into them.

Everyone is right about pictures being the most powerful and effective images to move people. Everyone here remember the picture of the little girl running naked down the road after a Napalm attack in Vietnam? Think Fallujah now.

I've been away a couple of days. Missed everyone and Mari, I hope you and your family are doing okay.

(PS-Consider underground movements to share these pictures throughout churches in your area on Sunday mornings. Just get together with a few friends, target the churches and leave info in bathrooms, info tables, with the programs, all kinds of things to do).

Remember "THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED!"

It is up to us, one day, one person at a time.

[genieroze]

41. That's what happens when you are drunk with power.

People who don't share your "values" become insects to be squashed.

[central scrutinizer]

2. This has to stop!!!

Confiscate all of those fucking digital cameras so this shit can be more effectively covered up. Why do these people hate America so much and why do they want to embarrass our God-anointed emperor? <sarcasm/off>

[ElectroPrincess]

3. Yes, considering that ONLY PHOTOS (not the integrity of peers or

senior leaders, NCOs E7 and above plus Officers) end up with ANYBODY being charged. To the best of my knowledge I believe the highest ranking troop who was charged was an E6 (Staff Sergeant).

Where is the accountability of the Platoon Sergent and Leader? No one above middle enlisted takes the blame but it's encouraged from the top military and civilian leadership down.

Talk about your mixed signals. I think the moral of the story is NOT "do not abuse" but instead "do not get caught on camera during an abuse." Disgusting :(

[alank]

53. Another Oscar Nominee for Best Torture Documentary

The new images of prisoner abuse, this time by Navy Seals, indicates that Abu Ghraib may not have been an isolated event.

The article in the Sydney Morning Herald quotes Commander Bender condemming the act of taking and posting the images:

"They presented copies of them to us last week and once we were presented with these photos we launched an investigation as to how the photos got on the internet and who is responsible,"

"The matter is currently under investigation to determine if the personnel acted properly." (This is ambiguous: I hope he means the acts, not the recording of them.)

"Before they go on deployment they are instructed that taking photos of detainees is strictly forbidden," he said.

Commander Bender had lots of condemnation for the taking and posting of the images, but not much to say about the subject matter. I don't understand his priorities. Not re-assuring.

[Monkie]

4. why do they hate "us"

"The wife said she was upset that a reporter was able to view the album, which includes family snapshots."

sick to the core

the germans could say they didnt know
when is enough enough..how many warcrimes

[Menshevik]

10. the wife is clearly an idiot

never assume that something you post on the internet will be private

[leftchick]

5. I believe Sy Hersh has adressed these photos..

where the hell is the NYT?

[asjr]

6. And Donald Renfield is staying on as Sec. of Def. He is his

own Frankenstein monster.

[maddezmom]

16. just posted in the dupe thread

Sy Hersh was right :(


and it wasn't just a few bad apples...this is so incredible sickening. Wonder if Rummy's decision to stay if related at all?

[El Supremo]

7. To quote that giggling idiot Katy Couric...

"SEALS rock!"
:-(

[Catherine Vincent]

22. In defense of Katie Couric....that particular Navy seal she was purring at

was a very good looking dude. It just so happens I was watching that morning and I don't think Katie realized until after the interview that that was some hunk of a guy (and he had his uniform on, mind you). That was a while ago but I still remember that delicious looking man. Hubba hubba!:9

[Toucano]

35. Where's NBC's indecency fine?

It sounds like Katie was a little damp. Is that allowed?

Won't anyone think of the children?

[KayLaw]

8. Please, dear God

Show these people the justice they deserve.

[mountebank]

9. Anyone know where one can see these photos? n/t

[Barrett808]

12. Smugmug.com - but the page is apparently now password-protected

The images were found through the online search engine Google. The same search today leads to the Smugmug.com Web page, which now prompts the user for a password. Nine scenes from the SEAL camp remain in Google's archived version of the page.

...

Before the site was password protected, the AP purchased reprints for 29 cents each.

[pinniped]

38. Has anyone found the google "cache" for this page?

?

[frylock]

11. navy seals -- the best of the best..

these weren't some NG prison guards from West Virginny, or hillbilly trailer park queens. These assholes our supposed to be our best and brightest. Nice job, fuckheads. And people get upset when folks want to drive airplanes into buildings. Fuckin brilliant.

[Bigmack]

13. You should see some of the ...

shit kicking around in dresser drawers and old footlockers from the Vietnam war. I personally don't have anything but mental pictures, but I've seen some amazingly barbaric pics guys took in Vietnam. (I don't have any pics because where I was wasn't exactly "Photo-mat" country.)

The digital cameras these days have changed everything.

Maybe it's good these pics get out. "This is what happens to your sons and daughters in wartime, folks. All that care you and the nuns took in implanting values in the kid goes into the shitter when the war starts."

After all these pics are released, maybe this country will rethink it's imperialist wars....... Naaahhhh!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

33. "Nightstalker" Richard Ramirez (serial killer) was strongly influenced

as a lad by photos of torture of Vietnamese people his cousin had shown him after returning from Nam. He later witnessed this same cousin murder his wife in front of his eyes.

http://crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/ramirez/satan_2.html?sect=2

"The turning point in Ramirez's life might well have been the night he witnessed his cousin Mike murder his wife. Mike had fought as a Green Beret in Vietnam, but the war had changed him. After he'd returned home, he boasted of torturing and mutilating the enemy, and had brought back Polaroids to prove it. He and his thirteen-year-old cousin Richard would hang out all day, getting high, which is just what they were doing when Mike's wife started to nag him about getting his life together and finding a job. To shut her up, Mike pulled out a gun and shot her in the face, killing her. Author Philip Carlo, speaking on CNBC's Rivera Live, revealed that Ramirez was spattered with the woman's blood... (snip) Mike had been a big influence on Richard, who became fascinated with the horrible photographs of Mike's war victims."

[wicket]

14. Holy shit, this is really bad!

:scared:

[truth2power]

15. I hope all these pictures get out, somewhere.

Pictures are the only thing that have even the slightest hope of engendering outrage over these atrocities. :-(

[JohnOneillsMemory]

17. Absolutely. Photos are the only reality-based evidence humans react to.

Science has proven that our brains are hard-wired to feel stress when we see it on another face, the result of being dependent on each other as social animals.

That's why no coffins, no bodies, no funerals are shown to the masses.

“If we let people see that kind of thing, there would never again be any war.”
-Pentagon official explaining why the U.S. military censored graphic footage from the Gulf War

SO....

I recommend a guerilla photo campaign on every public surface with war victims and the caption
"Sending our kids to kill their kids isn't making us safer."

Here are some source sites for photos. Fire up your printer. Go.

http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/pictures/?source=iraq&page=3

http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/

http://home.wi.rr.com/davef/iraq.htm

[maddezmom]

18. CNN's Newsnight just did a piece on it...showed various photos

:(

[IndianaGreen]

19. These pictures predate the start of the insurgency

and are a clear indication that the abuse of prisoners was not an isolated incident involving soldiers angry at the deaths of their buddies, but that they were part of an organized Pentagon campaign of terror and torture.

[Nordic]

21. another link I almost posted as new, from NZ:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=9001719

[Ashy Larry]

23. Here are the photos

CAUTION: These are sickening.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041204/D86OJH280.html

[Judi Lynn]

28. Thank you, Ashy Larry, for posting this link.

Welcome to D.U. :hi: :hi:

You're right, they are bad.

[rodeodance]

31. said that prob. lots more of private pics out there in photoalbums!!

[Judi Lynn]

37. Whoever has them has evidence of some real crimes in his/her possession.

We have too many people who imagine being involved in a war gives you special permission to simply go berserk. Hey, it's war! We have the power! :eyes:

Losing control of yourself, your decency, common sense is nothing to be proud of. They'd be doing everyone a favor if they made them public, so the better people in the Pentagon could start cleaning up the way we've been doing business, with _Bush pretending to be our President.

Nation needs to get back on track.

[VolcanoJen]

24. saigon.... leftchick... here we go again.

Sound familiar?

[saigon68]

45. Yup Jen Here we go again-- time to fire up the right click

And save this shit


SUPPORT THE TROOPS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"BRING EM ON" shouted the AWOL CHIMPANZEE. AS HE MASTURBATED TO THE PHOTOS OF DEATH AND SEXUAL ABUSE.

[Solly Mack]

25. Search the web, everyone...there are more out there

and all of it needs to be brought to light.

[RebelOne]

26. More photos here.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20041203165609990006

[truth2power]

32. this requires password to sign in.

[spooked]

27. Photo, story and viewer comments at aljazeera

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=5872

[Judi Lynn]

29. The article you provided says they were taken last May.

Some of the photographs have date stamps that show they were taken last May, which could make them the earliest evidence of abusing Iraqi detainees in Iraq.

Looks as if the Abu Ghraib photos weren't actually the evidence of actions by a few "rogue" MPs, after all. Yet you really hate to think we've been lied to, don't you? Who would have expected this?

Is this a view of our future? Is _Bush going to claim permanent rights to our Presidency?

[Monkie]

30. more bloody photo's

http://cryptome.org/ik14/iraq-kill14.htm

democracy in action

[saigon68]

OUR HEROES IN ACTION

KICKING SOME RAG HEAD ASS AND STEALING SOME RAG-HEAD GAS !!!!!!!!!!

[Toucano]

34. No one will care.

Them boys is just lettin' of a lil' steam! And them tar'ists was askin' fur it.

Has you all plumb fergot September 11th 'appened?

This is a war Jesus hisself would fight in!

[NJCher]

36. Look what I just got in the mail and I have NO freeper friends

This came to me from a person who is very naive and not very well informed. She is definitely not a freeper or even of that mentality. She admits she is very sheltered and naive, however:

-----------------

DON'T BUY THE NEW USPS CHRISTMAS STAMP

How ironic is this??!! They don't even believe in Christ and they're getting their own Christmas stamp, but don't dream of posting the ten commandments on federal property?

USPS New Stamp

This one is impossible to believe. Scroll down for the text.
If there is only one thing you forward today.....let it be this!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm
Flight 103!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World
TradeCenter in 1993!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine
barracks in Lebanon!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military
barracks in Saudi Arabia!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American
Embassies in Africa!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on the TwinTowers on 9/11/2001!

REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were
lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!

Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the
EID MUSLIM holiday season with a commemorative first class
holiday postage stamp.

REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp
when purchasing your stamps at the post office.
To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those
AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors.

REMEMBER to pass this along to every patriotic AMERICAN you know.

-------------------------

First of all, I have no clue what the stamp is because the picture did not come through. A check of the post office's site didn't turn up any likely candidates, either.

I responded to the email:

You support this?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041204/D86OJH280.html

http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/iraq/

http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/

I cannot support this.


Cher

[Poll_Blind]

40. Here are pictures of the stamp...

Right here...



These stamps have been issued since September 1st, 2001 and, as you can see by the ever-increasing postage on them, reissued regularly.

PB

[MisterP]

39. don't scapegoat the grunts--quack quack--you'd do the same--quack quack

we had no idea--quack quack--deal with the perpetrators--quack quack--don't focus on the SEALs involved--quack quack

[VolcanoJen]

42. Kick!

:dem:

[Disturbed]

44. I was not surprised.

From the beginning of the breakout of the Torture stories it was obvious to me that Torture and abuse were wide spread and directed from the highest levels. I have no proof but feel that shrub knew about the policy. Rumsfailed damn well knew and promoted it.


Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violations of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also proscecute Ex. CIA Tenet.

=========================
Q: Senator Jack Reed (Dem, RI): "If you were shown
a video of a United States Marine or an American
citizen in control of a foreign power, in a cell block,
naked with a bag over their head, squatting with their
arms uplifted for 45 minutes, would you describe that
as a good interrogation technique or a violation of
the Geneva Convention?"

A: Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the vice chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff: "I would describe it as a violation."

A: Paul D. Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defense: "What
you've described to me sounds to me like a violation of the
Geneva Convention."

Thursday, May 13, 2004, Senate Armed Services Committee hearings

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-20...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25737-2004May13.htm
Does the US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA?

[saigon68]

43. African-Americans can Empathize with Tourtured Iraqis

African-Americans can
Empathize with Tourtured Iraqis




http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/040516blackiraq.htm



Every conscious African American in this country is feeling galled by the hideous photos depicting the torture of Iraqi detainees, but for more reasons than Americans might think. It isn't only photos but the mendacity of government officials seeking to distance themselves from those ugly images, that is galling us.

President Bush, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, Joint Chiefs Chair General Richard B. Myers, General Ricardo Sanchez who last November authorized military intelligence to go into Iraqi prisons, and a host of congressional members are all mouthing the same platitudes: "this isn't the America I know," "This isn't what Americans are are like," "These individuals (soldiers shown abusing detainees) are an aberration," and words to that effect.

Well, this IS the America African Americans know. Most bizarre of all the sound bites seeking to rationalize or minimize the atrocity unfolding before America as a mirror to show us who and what we really are, are Rumsfeld's sly verbal gymnastics in seeming to take responsibility, not really for the brutal policy of torture itself, but for the public ugliness of "those unthinkable pictures" which make him "feel terrible." As if the public relations disaster the White House has suffered were more grievous than the perverse acts no public relations ploy could ever smooth over.

We wonder in the wake of Rumsfeld's duplicitous statements, what is the real offense to him? That U.S. military intelligence, the CIA, mercenaries, and private, corporate operatives hired by the Pentagon seem to have deliberately planned and implemented a policy of psychological, physical, and sexual humiliation and torture against detainees in order to "break" them? Or is it that there are photos for all the world to see of that policy being dutifully carried out?

[saigon68]

46. THE cover up begins

Out of safety concerns, the AP is not identifying the woman who posted the photos.

The wife said she was upset that a reporter was able to view the album, which includes family snapshots. Hundreds of other photos depict everyday military life in Iraq, some showing commandos standing around piles of weapons and waving wads of cash.





The images were found through the online search engine Google. The same search today leads to the Smugmug.com Web page, which now prompts the user for a password. Nine scenes from the SEAL camp remain in Google's archived version of the page.

[Disturbed]

47. It's the photos.

The acts themselves are not disturbing to Rumsfailed and the Junta, it's the damn awful photos that reveal Amerika's policies that are so freakin' disturbing.

[Pachamama]

48. I can't even imagine what we haven't seen and is happening every day

and has been for over 18 months....This administration tries to paint the picture that all these insurgents are Terrorists and foreign fighters, but the reality is that I keep having the image in my head of the Iraqi people going through these kind of raids in their homes, abuse and family members being taken out cuffed and hooded off to prisons like Abu Gharaib, some never to be seen again, others with horrifying stories of rape and abuse. These people are angry, and rightfully so. These people were pushed to the edge...we created the insurgencies and they are a product of this abuse. The abuse and the mentality that would be what I believe to be rampant where our soldiers would feel the excitement and interest to take "trophy" pictures of themselves smiling with these people tied up and bloodied is so sick and it makes me wonder what our government and military have created. Clearly this comes from the top....

:grr:

[saigon68]

52. Its simple--- THESE MONSTERS were seduced by the DARK SIDE

THUGS, HOODLUMS AND KILLERS.


No leadership---- or when it exists on paper it is interested in chasing "THE DEVIL".

[Deja Q]

49. We call the Iraqi savages. But are the Iraqi the only ones?

This is just terrible.

[MsLeopard]

51. Is that dude on "go pills," or what?

Whatever he's on, he's having entirely too much fun in Chimpy's war.

[truth2power]

50. I hope DUers

with larger hard drives and better search skills than mine are finding these pictures - all of them - and saving them somewhere.

ALL of these pictures need to be out there. In fact, I think a traveling exhibition would be a good idea.

I am so everlovin' SICK of all this sh*t!! :mad:

And there are still co-workers of mine - people with graduate degrees, who you would think would have at least minimal critical thinking skills, who are living in friggin' Fairyland!!

Grrrr!!! Gonna get myself all upset again today.

[VTHoosierPatriot]

54. These are nothing,

There will be zero impact from these since Abu Gharaib is the current standard. This is part of war, although it's unfortunate that these pictures are going to be on al jazeera 24/7, and I doubt anyone is legitimately surprised at anything in these pictures. All you'll hear from Fox and the right is, "well, at least we're not chopping off heads, but we should be." My advice, get a script of Xanax and a barrel of Wild Turkey and try to have yourself a marry little Christmas away from reality.