Aid Cuts Threatened by US Over War Crimes Tribunal

[bemildred]

UNITED NATIONS -- The US government is quietly threatening to withhold hundreds of millions of dollars of foreign aid aimed at combating terrorism, resolving conflicts, and building democracy unless countries agree to shield Americans from prosecution at the UN permanent war crimes tribunal.

Since 2002, the US government has withheld military aid from countries that refused to sign such a bilateral agreement. But the new amendment in this year's budget bill goes a step further, revoking other nonmilitary assistance to governments. The amendment targets an economic support fund designed to foster democracy and human rights around the world, as well as promote the rule of law in Muslim countries to bolster counterterrorism efforts.

Jordan would be hit hardest. It stands to lose $250 million in a two-year old program to foster pluralism and secular education, potentially undermining the Bush administration's declared goal of spreading democracy in the Mideast.

Cyprus, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Venezuela, and South Africa also could lose millions if the bill passes as expected Wednesday and is signed by President Bush. The bill also threatens to cut $11 million in aid to eight African democracies meant to break up terrorist funding networks, improve airport security, and upgrade judiciaries. The fate of $22 million in aid meant to heal divisions in Northern Ireland is also unclear.

Boston Globe

[rooboy]

1. What's the old right wing line....

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of.

[ilovenicepeople]

87. I guess the USA is thinking:What would Isreal do?

[booley]

2. shows they KNOW how guilty they are

and are screwing everybody else to save their own collective asses.

They can spout about "politicaly motivated trials" all they want (and with the typical neo-con lack of shame or irony, they will) but if ever the things that Shrub did do in iraq and othe rplaces were put up in court, they know they couldn't defend any of thier actions.

[silverweb]

3. I hope they say "fine."

I hope they tell B* to keep his damn money and to go to hell. Hopefully, Europe and others can help pick up the slack until our country returns to its senses.

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. These sick f**ks need to be put before the tribunal

I hope the same as you do, silverweb.
This move by the Chimp Gang is no better, and actually even worse than, any other organized crime family...strong arm blackmail.
Sick fucks! :mad:

[shanti]

27. yup

the ultimate mafia! all they are is a bunch of thugs.

[silverweb]

58. I agree with you both.

We will get through this, but at what cost?

:shrug:

[NYC]

55. Or take the money, then prosecute anyway.

The next administration will reinstate the aid, after this administration is convicted.

[ooglymoogly]

83. beat him at his own game, eom

[Demeter]

82. It's Not Like Bush Would Give Them Anything of Value, Either

The dollar is going down to worthless, the people of the world don't need any more weapons, really, our food is dirt cheap already, and we don't make any nifty gadgets in house anymore.

They sure wouldn't want our "creation science" or "intelligent design" and they're smart enough to send the missionaries packing, so refusing the offer is not going to be too difficult.

Anyone who accepts anything from the Bushites deserves what he gets. And that is SCREWED!

[Just Me]

4. Withholding "humanitarian" aid, rather than military aid equals pro-death.

Pro-death, anti-law, rule of the jungle which is the guy with the biggest stick rules,...only the neocons are even worse.

The neocons are akin to a dreadful disease. Why aren't those who can apply the cure showing courage and heroism? Where the hell are they?

[thinkingwoman]

6. um actually

I'm okay with no money going to these countries...whatever the reason.

Flame away.

[chascarrillo]

9. The Irish offended you that much?

I thought that everyone wanted to see the peace process in Northern Ireland succeed, but I guess I was wrong.

[thinkingwoman]

15. I'm a wee bit Irish myself

Why would you think I am offended by them.

And why would that mean I don't want peace to succeed in Northern Ireland?

I'm not impressed by such all or nothing thinking.

I'm also not impressed with claims that our money will make the difference in that quest for peace.

[sariku]

22. Regardless of how much of an effect the money may have...

There is an ethical question here. Is it ethical for a country to use aid as a way of escaping being judged as any other country would be judged?

It also begs the question: Do you believe that there are or should be special rules for Americans?

[thinkingwoman]

34. I find posting here very interesting

We're supposed to be the smart ones...and yet so many of us have limited reading comprehension skills.

Please tell me where in my original post that I:

A. said I thought withholding money as coercion to escape judgement was "ethical" or

B. said that I thought Americans should have special rules.

Of course I said neither. What I did say was that I wasn't too upset that we were withholding foreign aid from the countries you mentioned.

I'll now take that further and say that I'm not upset with the idea of withholding money from a whole bunch of countries for whatever reason the government wants to dream up.

Why? Well, frankly because we need it here. We're in so much debt I cannot grasp the number and people starve and die of preventable health problems right here at home. I think we should keep our money here until we solve these problems.

Nope, I'm not an isolationist either. But in my family, we don't buy a bunch of stuff we cannot afford and we don't feed the neighbor's kids before we feed our own.

[sariku]

57. Pot, meet kettle

We're supposed to be the smart ones...and yet so many of us have limited reading comprehension skills.

Please tell me where in my original post that I:

A. said I thought withholding money as coercion to escape judgement was "ethical" or

B. said that I thought Americans should have special rules.

You didn't. That would be why I asked you if you believed those. Reread my post if you doubt me - my questions began with "is it ethical" and "do you believe" and both ended with a question mark.

Main Entry: 1ques·tion
Pronunciation: 'kwes-ch&n, 'kwesh-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin quaestion-, quaestio, from quaerere to seek, ask
1 a (1) : an interrogative expression often used to test knowledge (2) : an interrogative sentence or clause b : a subject or aspect in dispute or open for discussion

Main Entry: as·sump·tion
Pronunciation: &-'s&m(p)-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin assumption-, assumptio taking up, from Latin assumere
1 a : the taking up of a person into heaven b capitalized : August 15 observed in commemoration of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary
2 : a taking to or upon oneself <the assumption of a new position>
3 : the act of laying claim to or taking possession of something <the assumption of power>
4 : ARROGANCE, PRETENSION
5 a : an assuming that something is true b : a fact or statement (as a proposition, axiom, postulate, or notion) taken for granted
6 : the taking over of another's debts

So yeah, it is very sad that you are so lacking in reading comprehension. Hopefully the dictionary references will assist you with your problem.

Simple rule: If you're going to flame, make sure the flame applies to the person you are responding to, not yourself.

frankly because we need it here. We're in so much debt I cannot grasp the number and people starve and die of preventable health problems right here at home. I think we should keep our money here until we solve these problems.

Nope, I'm not an isolationist either. But in my family, we don't buy a bunch of stuff we cannot afford and we don't feed the neighbor's kids before we feed our own.

My point in asking you the questions I asked (note once again: asked, not assumed) is to point out that there are multiple issues here. There is always the issue of what aid, if any, our country should extend. I think that if you had stated your case as such to begin with, you probably would not have been viewed in the manner you were viewed.

However, how much aid we should give, or whether we should give aid, is a separate issue from the ethics of using aid as blackmail. It also opens up the pandora's box of viewing Americans as a special class of people who are exempt from the rules. We are neither special nor exempt.

[thinkingwoman]

69. why, exactly...

did you assume I had never given thought to the "multiple issues here"?

Is it because my opinion didn't coincide with yours?

My young teenage son is still in that phase where, if someone disagrees with him, he simply repeats his opinion/assertion over and over again in the mistaken belief that people can only disagree if they don't understand what he is saying.

That's what a lot of the posts directed at me on this thread sound like.

As for this statement however:

"I think that if you had stated your case as such to begin with, you probably would not have been viewed in the manner you were viewed."

I think you're probably right. I apologize for being in such a high level of pain when I originally posted. It caused me to shorten my response. Someday, if I ever get health insurance again, I hope to get ahold of medication that can keep my chronic pain at a manageable level. But that's is another story for another thread.

[sariku]

72. Actually...

did you assume I had never given thought to the "multiple issues here"?

Is it because my opinion didn't coincide with yours?

No, it wasn't. I asked you two questions, was met with an idiotic response, and elaborated on what I was getting at based on your response. If you want to elaborate, by all means, do.

My young teenage son is still in that phase where, if someone disagrees with him, he simply repeats his opinion/assertion over and over again in the mistaken belief that people can only disagree if they don't understand what he is saying.

Which is not at all what happened between the two of us. That sort of attitude really isn't far off from your response of accusing me of having poor reading comprehension skills when you missed me the fact that I was asking questions instead of making assumptions. In fact, while there is nothing wrong with making a mistake (in your accusation of poor reading skills) but to continue on as if you hadn't made a mistake, and instead continue with further negative innuendo, is pretty juvenile.

The fact is, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and took the time to ask you to elaborate on your response. Your knee-jerk response taught me quite a bit about where you are coming from.

[thinkingwoman]

74. I obviously disagree

and see our interaction quite differently.

I also notice you failed to address the end of my post, preferring to stick to your pet theory that I offered "knee-jerk" responses.

That tells me quite a bit about where you are coming from.

[sariku]

78. LOL...

I failed to respond to your statement about being in pain and that says something negative? Let me explain something to you. It's easy to go on the net, be an ass, and then say the devil made me do it (or the pain, etc, whatever). We all have our issues. I've had mine this week and since I feel it has nothing to do with this post, I don't say more. On the other hand, I also don't feel it is an excuse to behave however I want to.

[thinkingwoman]

85. You've been very amusing

to interact with. But I am bored with you now.

I've been on the web for a decade now. I'm pretty well versed in what it is and is not easy to do online. But thanks for the lecture anyway. It was good, free entertainment.

As I responded on another post to you just now...I'm done discussing this silliness with you. You can now have the last word you crave so much. Twist what I said. Ignore whatever you want. And if it is necessary for you to put people down and call them names along the way, do feel free. Doesn't bother me a bit. Enjoy.

[TankLV]

95. Thinking woman doesn't think very well.

That is proved by her posts.

Never did answer your questions, either, while at the same thime bringing up nonsense and strawmen.

[sariku]

99. I know

And as I said in my posts, I'm willing to give a person the benefit of the doubt, but if there is only so much benefit you can get.

[sariku]

101. And...

After having this twit repeatedly and blatantly twist my words (after I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to give some info behind her statement!?!), I'm done with her. She's on ignore. Like I said, I'll give people the benefit of the doubt, but there is a point beyond which you can just go straight to hell.

[Brundle_Fly]

77. yeah, is it aid or is it

a kickback?

[maddezmom]

12. * lighting my bic*

:eyes:

[thinkingwoman]

35. I really like

your green rolly eyed guy.

[maddezmom]

41. why thanks!!!

too bad there isn't a "napalm flame thrower emoticon". :evilgrin:

[thinkingwoman]

45. LOL

I would pay to see that.

[CatWoman]

14. thinking woman

or unthinking animal?

[thinkingwoman]

16. Aha! Finally a decent flame retort!

Good show!

Has absolutely nothing to do with the message. Simply attacks the messenger without addressing her argument.

Excellent! Thanks for not letting me down.

[CatWoman]

19. oh please

pick up your jacks and go home.

[thinkingwoman]

32. I'm not the one doing the jacking

Have a nice night. I'm staying.

[maddezmom]

17. what came to my mind will show my age

EEEvil Woman :evilgrin:

[thinkingwoman]

36. uh oh

showing mine too. I love that song.

[bemildred]

18. May I inquire why?

I promise not to bite.

[thinkingwoman]

37. I offered more info

on another post somewhere around here but I'll try to repeat myself because I don't want to make you hunt for it.

I think we send too much money overseas while we have an unfathomable debt and hungry and sick people here at home.

I'm not an isolationist, but I do think we should tend to our own problems first, and then fix everyone else's. I have no problem reaching out and funding overseas initiatives once all of America's children go to bed well fed and healthy.

[bemildred]

47. A reasonable position.

I pretty much agree, this imperial babble will be the downfall of us.
There is an argument from charity and good will, which I also find
compelling, but even so, one must take care of business at home first.

[sandnsea]

61. Their problems are our problems

Anytime your businesses use a group of people to enable them to live like fat hogs, and your government laughs at those same people's poverty, those people are going to revolt. You simply can't have your cheap Target jeans and Chinese computers, dump the pollutions in their countries, and then tell them it's their problem when their children are sick and malnourished. Besides, as big a portion of "aid" goes to "security" in some of these countries; "security" to keep the government in power and make things nice nice for the corporations that are keeping their people in poverty. Or aid that goes for food that they wouldn't need if multinationals weren't sucking all their resources right out from under them. Same problems "over there" as here, we pay the food stamp, housing and medical subsidies because Walmart doesn't pay a living wage.

Corporatism is the problem. Unregulated capitalism does not work.

[thinkingwoman]

66. I disagree

with some of your post. I agree with some of your post.

But overall, I haven't knocked overseas aid. I've said I think we should fix our problems at home first.

Countries which are harmed by American corporations, btw, can tax those corporations themselves for what they do on foreign soil. And they can pass laws requiring living wages, or at least wages more like ours.

The fact that they don't is what lures corporations and jobs overseas in the first place.

[sandnsea]

71. Corrupt leaders

They do tax those corporations, and put the money in a Swiss bank account. Marcos ring a bell?

Sorry, I do not want to live in an America that is little more than a gated community for the rich with the rest of the world as our slaves. If we don't change our attitudes towards the world, that's what we're going to become.

[sariku]

73. What is so often neglected

is that we have an ethical responsibility for the behavior of our citizens abroad - and that includes the corporations. The fact that some of the things these companies do in foreign countries they would not consider doing in the US speaks volumes.

[thinkingwoman]

76. yes, that is true

but ethical responsibility does not have to be expressed in dollars (which lose more value every day anyway). When citizens behave badly overseas, they are more often than not dealt with by those foreign countries according to their laws and traditions. We don't increase our aid to a country if one of our private citizens is caught dealing drugs there do we?

What changes in U.S. laws would you propose to stop US corporations from doing damage abroad?

[sariku]

79. If it's not about dollars...

Then why do you propose additional taxes on these corporations? Just curious.

As to the original message on this subject, I think the issue is about money only in a very general sense. The more pertinent issue is whether aid should be used as blackmail.

When citizens behave badly overseas, they are more often than not dealt with by those foreign countries according to their laws and traditions.

But there's the rub - our country is trying to prevent other countries from doing just that. And they are using blackmail to try to accomplish it.

Beyond that, I think that it is more than just rules that tell us what is right and wrong. The question often asked is, how would your spouse, neighbors, parents, etc, feel if they knew you were doing this? Hence my statement of engaging in behaviors abroad that corporations would not engage in here. They feel that distance, and the ability to hide their actions from people here, makes it "ok".

What changes in U.S. laws would you propose to stop US corporations from doing damage abroad?

I don't have an answer to that because I am far from an expert in business law. I think a step in the right direction would be something that is not legislated - which is a transparency for actions. If the behaviors exhibited by American companies abroad were always known in the U.S., I think it would have an affect on them. They would no longer be able to hide under the veil of secrecy in distance.

[thinkingwoman]

84. "I don't have to answer that"--LOL

Seriously, you don't have to answer anything. Nobody is making you continously respond to my posts.

This thread has gotten absolutely ridiculous. I'm done. You can have the last word if you want...it seems to mean a lot to you, even if it has nothing to do with what I posted or twists my words into something they did not mean.

Have fun.

[sariku]

100. Lady, learn to freaking READ

I didn't say "I don't have to answer that" you stupid, bottom dwelling, 2nd grade reading comprehension bottom feeeder. I said I don't HAVE an answer for it. Jesus christ on a pogo stick, get a clue.

I love when people play the "go ahead, you have the last word" card. The other side of the card has the translation: I'm afraid this person might make another point that I can't respond to, so I'm going to try to shame them into not responding.

Whatever. Maybe you should try posting again when you have (1) a shred of common sense and (2) better reading comprehension.

[thinkingwoman]

75. some do, some really don't

tax corporations and keep the money that is. Many do. But the fact remains that there are economic reasons why corporations prefer to do their business outside of our borders.

As for:
"Sorry, I do not want to live in an America that is little more than a gated community for the rich with the rest of the world as our slaves. If we don't change our attitudes towards the world, that's what we're going to become."

Wow that's a serious non-sequitor. I don't feel the need to go off on an emotional tangent like that.

[sandnsea]

81. It's too bad

That's what the "Ownership Society" is all about. Every American invested in multinationals so that we ignore the harm these corporations are doing around the world. If people took an honest look at what is really going on in other countries, they'd be as disgusted as I am.

Why does the moral United States do business with a country that executed 5,000 people and forces women to have abortions anyway?

[thinkingwoman]

86. Good question

"Why does the moral United States do business with a country that executed 5,000 people and forces women to have abortions anyway?"

Got me. If I had any say we wouldn't have anything to do with them at all.

Of course, the gov't doesn't ask me, or anyone else with any common sense it seems.

[sandnsea]

88. Do you drive?

We get our oil from overseas. What do you think all that mess in Venezuela was about?

What about bananas, kiwi, coffee, chocolate??? Overseas.

People like you just make me so mad I could spit nails.

[thinkingwoman]

91. "People like you..." Really?

I have been reading and posting here for years and I have never been personally attacked like I have in the past few days on this thread.

I am more than a little amused by all the namecalling and semantical contortions.

I'm not sure what you meant by "people like me" and I'm not sure why you attacked me for not wanting to give money to other countries before feeding, clothing, and granting health care to all of our citizens.

I am truly sorry to hold such an obviously offensive opinion. Shame on me!

[sandnsea]

92. We never will

Don't you freaking get it???? WE NEVER WILL. So what the hell kind of "policy position" is turning the rest of the world into our slaves and ignoring their poverty when it's being done by the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who will NEVER support helping the people in this country anyway.

Yes, people like you make me so angry I could just spit nails, and alot more except you're not worth getting banned over.

[thinkingwoman]

94. we never will

be able to feed and clothe our own people? We never will be able to adequately provide health care for our own people?

Why are we here again? Why did we fight so hard during the last election if not for the chance to achieve those very ideals?

I don't understand you (notice just you, not people LIKE you) or why you are so angry at me, someone you have never met and barely talked to online. But I would never want to hurt you or insult you in any way. I don't need the threat of banning to tone down any of my posts. I just have no desire to say anything bad about you or to you.

Peace.

[sandnsea]

98. Oh man

The plan was to improve the economy and lives of ALL the people in the world. There is no turning back with the internet, trade, you know, airplane travel. The world is connected, we can't ignore environmental damage in some other country, overfishing, whatever. We can't ignore their diseases because people from other countries come here and bring their diseases with them. Whatever happens in those countries affects us too. And when our solution is to install puppet regimes so our corporations can suck all the resources out of their countries, they fly airplanes into our buildings. What we do around the world matters and no amount of sticking your head in the sand is going to stop it. The solution is the same, here and there. We all go up together. ME, first, last and always, is the exact kind of thinking that has us in a global mess. Only it's the ME of the corporate CEO. Yours is no better. All the benefits of cheap foreign labor, polluted foreign countries, none of the responsibility.

That kind of selfish thinking makes me very very angry.

[foreigncorrespondent]

70. Ok...

...I understand where you are coming from. But I do have one or two questions regardless. :evilgrin:

Do you honestly feel that Bush* should withhold this money for world causes while trying to save his own ass from being judged at the world court?

It really is all fine and dandy to withhold this money for legitimate reasons like reasons you stated above, but withholding this money for savings ones own ass isn't a legitimate reason, is it?

[thinkingwoman]

96. an answer

"Do you honestly feel that Bush* should withhold this money for world causes while trying to save his own ass from being judged at the world court?"

Nope. I think he is trying to get his way through thuggery, blackmail, and bribery...just has he has for the past 4 years (and probably much longer). I also think that this fantasy some have of the world saving America from him by dragging him before a world court is not likely to come about.

"It really is all fine and dandy to withhold this money for legitimate reasons like reasons you stated above, but withholding this money for savings ones own ass isn't a legitimate reason, is it?"

Asked and answered above.

Now I've got a question for you:

Where in my original flippant post, when I expressed the view that I didn't mind if money didn't go to other countries, did I ever endorse the reason for the withholding of funds?

[Just Me]

24. Why not state your reason? Do you have no "reason"?

"thinkingwoman",...would be kinda' an oxymoron name for someone who would post:

I'm okay with no money going to these countries...whatever the reason.

Doncha' think? :bounce:

[maddezmom]

25. yes and the added "flame way"

is a bit telling. :shrug:

[CatWoman]

33. yet "I" am the threadjacker

:eyes:

[thinkingwoman]

40. notice

I certainly didn't call you a threadjacker.

[thinkingwoman]

39. what does it tell?

Does it tell you that I suspect my comments may deviate from the accepted norm?

That's what it told me.

[maddezmom]

43. most folks looking for a flame

get flamed. But I guess you knew that when you posted. :)

[thinkingwoman]

44. actually I wasn't looking for a flame

I was looking to express an opinion.

The fact that I suspected that opinion would not be appreciated led me to include the flame comment.

And I was proven correct.

[CatWoman]

54. give us a break

what are you, a cat and we are the proverbial field mice?

or are you playing out your Frankenstein fantasies?

IT'S ALIVE!!!!

[thinkingwoman]

67. uh, whatever

You're the one chasing me up and down this thread.

[thinkingwoman]

38. I have in two other posts now

However, I think it's really ok to make a comment without adding footnotes.

[CatWoman]

42. lonely tonight?

[thinkingwoman]

46. actually no

surrounded by loving family of four, three dogs, and three cats.

But thanks for asking. How thoughtful of you.

[Bridget Burke]

60. You're so trusting.

You seem to be sure that Bush & Co. will take all that extra money & spend it on education, the environment & health care here in the US. To make things nicer for your loving family....

Somehow, I don't think so.

Also, the money is being used as a bribe--to protect the war criminals in DC.

[thinkingwoman]

65. are you sure you're responding to me?

I don't remember posting anything that resembles what you seem to have responded to.

I have never posted anywhere on this site for the last couple of years anything that even remotely implies that I think Bush & Co will ever do anything I would consider "nice."

I don't mind if you disagree with me or if you don't like my attitude. But I refuse to defend myself for things I never said. That's just silly.

[Bridget Burke]

90. Why, yes I am.

You seem so stingy with your tax dollar. By not sending it off to those evil foreigners, you seem assured that Bush & Co will find wonderful ways to invest it in our country.

I lack your faith.

[thinkingwoman]

102. Stingy? LOL

I want to feed, clothe and provide healthcare to everyone in America.

Yeah, that's really stingy.

[Solly Mack]

7. Government by thugs

hypocrites

[maddezmom]

8. Jordanian monarch heads to US for Mideast talks with Bush

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1515&ncid=1515&e=11&u=/afp/20041205/wl_mideast_afp/jordan_us_041205195156

Bet the issue of aid is on the list, but not mentioned in this article. :eyes:

[zann725]

10. $250 Mil. to Jordan, $22 Mil. to Ireland - subtract from Social Security

...of course! Voodoo Economics! :crazy:

[Heddi]

11. Don't most thinking people call this type of thing EXTORTION?

my oh my.

[bemildred]

13. It's only blackmail when private citizens do it.

When lawyers do it, it's fine.

[Heddi]

20. Yep. you're right

My bad.

off to re-education for me! You think that after 4 years of this misadministration, I'd have these things figured out. Oh well...that's what the electric prod is for!

:cheers:

[forgethell]

21. That applies to a lot of things. n/t

[Just Me]

28. Awwww,....man,....I use to be a lawyer,....we're not ALL bad,...

There are individuals who do bad things and GREAT things no matter what profession, sex, physical condition, religion, political affiliation, or other laborious "kin".

Please,...no more,...demonization of whole lots of people.

Please.

Please.

[bemildred]

29. Just a statement of the facts, Sir.

No denigration of lawyers was intended.

[Just Me]

50. *grin* I am not a "sir",...

,...I am a,...hmmmm,...a female,...one of those tortured creatures whose brain connects to both sides,...and will eventually overcome the hell that our testosterone-obsessed, other halves deliver.

[bemildred]

51. My apologies.

But I must say us testosterone addicts are not all bad,
we have our uses, some of us.

[shanti]

26. sure you're right

no wonder the u.s is hated so.

[Darranar]

23. Of course we can't have actual justice and rule of law!

How anti-American!

[depakid]

30. Cut * off * nose* to * spite * face

Typical Republican logic.

Cut off anti-terrorism funds to aid war on terror.

I hope the UN calls them on this- one more step in the right direction for the rest of the world.

[bemildred]

31. That's what I thought.

Not a good way to increase our global influence.

[jjtss]

48. Aid Cuts to Curtail War Crimes Tribunal

The above article shows that the curent admin is worried about recent legal action in Germany and Belgium. Their consciences are not clear and they probably approved the prison tortures, otherwise they would merely shrug, and appoint their best legal beagles to defend lesser officials and military personnel. Secondly, their attempt to force other countries into compliance with G. Brish's wishes by cutting off their foreign aid is self defeating. Without those American dollars Al Quaeda will recover financially and relaunch their activities. If that one consequence was absent from the equation, I would second the elimination of foreign aid until the Federal budget was balanced.

[neweurope]

56. Nearly the first thing the Bushistas did...

...was to ensure that they would not be sent to The Hague. We Europeans did not like that very much, and we suspected that there was a reason for that particular move of the US. And, yes, you are right here: The US was and is very much hated for that.

2) It really impresses me that whenever the Bushistas could really do something against Al Quaeda, the declared enemy, they fail to do so. Which has me almost convinced that there is no such thing as Al Quaeda resp. that Al Quaeda is no threat to the US. Of course that thought leads to a great many other thoughts...

3) *coughs politely* foreign aid:

a) How big a percentage of the US-finances go to foreign aid? AND do you really think that sum would otherwise be used to help the POOR US-citizens?

b) The western countries are bound by international treaty to spend a certain percantage on foreign aid. In my opinion that percentage should be much greater than it actually is. Of course, treaties don't seem to mean very much to president Rove... *coughs* Bush.

c) The life style of the Western world can only be upheld by daily exploitation of the Third World. Most of us could never afford a cup of coffee if we had to pay a fair price for it. The finances of Germany are desolate, also. But I do not think that we should take that little foreign aid away from the people that we made poor in the first place. And certainly not as long as there's ample money for christmas trees in white houses and military music...

[Deja Q]

49. You are either with us, or against us.

Which sounded nice in 2001, but once those who felt pressured to join us realize that between black and white is a large scale of gray, they'll join the gray like grown-ups would.

[coreystone]

52. This subject had such good possibilities for a rational discussion....

:-)

[aikido15]

53. This story comes right out of the new book

"Confessions of an Economic Hit man" where he talks about making deals for the US in weaker countries to hold them hostage by lending them more $$ than they can possibly ever pay back.

I guess Bush is now calling in his markers. It will be interesting to see if he gets away with it.

[Sara Beverley]

59. If the world could only learn they don't have to be greedy and depend on

our money. If they could just tell us to go to hell in a handbasket. There is enough wealth out there without the US that, if used properly, could really do some good across the globe without US money. The leaders are just too damn greedy to sacrifice for a short while. If the rest of the world would only raise the standard of living for their cheap laborers and raise the prices of goods sold to America, the Wal-Mart red states would soon learn who is on their side.

[aikanae]

62. just proves they pre-planned this to be beyond any laws.

if the world doesn't act now, it'll be too late later.

this administration has no intention of changing anything, esp. not world opinion. so far, they are proving everyone else needs to change.

[Red State Rebel]

63. Why are we paying Ireland 22 Mil???

They are a civilized country and from what I've heard they have one of the fastest growing economies out there. I don't understand why our tax money has to go for this crap.

I can understand the middle east to a point, but Ireland?????

[Q]

80. The US has given Israel nearly 100 billion in 'aid' since 1949...

Notice that the Bushies don't intend to blackmail countries that agree with the Bush* Doctrine of aggressive wars?

This particular EXTORTION is aimed at countries that want every nation to be held equally accountable for their foreign policies.

[Bridget Burke]

89. The money is going to Northern Ireland

Yes, the Republic of Ireland's economy is better than it was; an educated population & assistance from the rest of the European community have helped.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. Why? What's the history of the situation? Has this caused any problems?

This is a rather big topic. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[indepat]

64. World take note: you'll be taught a lesson, if not bludgeoned, should

you have the temerity to question anything we do, have done, or about to do for we answer to absolutely no one for anything. We are not above the law, we are the law! Savvy? Got that now?

[FlyByNight]

68. The beatings will continue until morale improves

Spreading democracy and respect for human rights by suspending foreign aid just so Americans will be immune from war crimes charges.

Yet more Western, enlightened principles for others to follow - but not us. Do as we say... The US government wouldn't actually want to set a good example, would they?

:puke:

[rodeodance]

93. makes me wonder what else is in this Intell bill that we do not know about

[daleo]

97. Withdrawing aid to fight terrorism from "allies" in the WOT?

Look here, face, you better straighten out, or I will cut my nose off.