Conservative Students Target Liberal Profs (Horowitz)

[gulfcoastliberal]

Traditionally, clashes over academic freedom have pitted politicians or administrators against instructors who wanted to express their opinions and teach as they saw fit. But increasingly, it is students who are invoking academic freedom, claiming biased professors are violating their right to a classroom free from indoctrination

For example, at the University of North Carolina, three incoming freshmen sued over a reading assignment they said offended their Christian beliefs.

snip

To many professors, there's a new and deeply troubling aspect to this latest chapter in the debate over academic freedom: students trying to dictate what they don't want to be taught.

snip

Those behind the trend call it an antidote to the overwhelming liberal dominance of university faculties. But many educators, while agreeing students should never feel bullied, worry that they just want to avoid exposure to ideas that challenge their core beliefs — an essential part of education.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041225/ap_on_re_us/academic_freedom

Horowitz should really know better than to be promoting such a slippery-slope agenda.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. Rebellion from students against teachers...

...was also mightily exploited by the Nazis.

[madrchsod]

3. "for something completely different"

when in the hell does f1 start? looks like such a really exciting year,i just can`t wait!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. According to www.formula1.com...

69 days, 22 hours, 37 minutes, 10 seconds from now.

[madrchsod]

7. thank you

dam you got it down to the second!

[nashville_brook]

71. strange position for authoritarians -- but APT!

if fascism is government by capitalism, this is education by capitalism. the point here isn't that they are bringing charges of political correctness -- the point here is that people think they BUY an education and therefore they can make demands on how it is presented. like sending your dinner back because it's too cold.

I knew of fuckheads like that who brought hopped-up charges against the best, most wonderful, challenging profs. Two of my favorite teachers were run off like this. The students woul come right out and say they are "outraged by bias" but the real truth is the student can't do QUALATATIVE, comprehensive work. They can't think. They can't write. Profs are supposed to inflame your passion for learning. There 's no right and wrong -- you are just expected to be able to back up grand claims with an equally grand essay or journal or any tangible evidence of mastery.

in the philosophy and poly sci depts at my school there was always a business major taking a semester of Plato because it sounded sexy and they thought it would be crip -- who were totally unprepared to write. Even if you turn in all A+ term papers from your Sigma Frata archives, you still can't pass these classes if you can't present arguments (participate) in class.

since when do students get to tell teachers how to teach?

since we have to take on so much damn debt to pay for it, perhaps? people get all pissed off when they pay for something and they think they aren't being served.

there's another thread that could be started on how disappearing tenure is causing a lot of this.

[Maat]

2. They are the last danger to the Reich.

That and some of the indy media (e.g. Air America, Sirius Left hosts, the Nation).

I would not want my child to go to a university that did not ask her to step outside of the traditional frame-of-mind.

I worry that it's not a joke - there will be political re-education for some of us.

Look at the social harassment that happens to people that speak out against the Iraq War.

[Erika]

4. Look at the Hitler victim parade of those who think

they are being persecuted for being Christians. I'm looking into a billboard sign for "Would Christ agree to waive his Golden Rule to profit corporate globalists"

Seriously, I believe the fact that Bushies are negating Christ's Golden Rule can turn this around. I'm setting up a fund for this.

[madrchsod]

6. dumb asses?

to bad that they are so limited in their ability to express their core beliefs that they have to resort to force to persuade others that their positions have merit. oh well "that`s america,land of the free"

[sugarman]

8. let's go after conservative professors...

...we'll beat them at their own game....

[Erika]

9. Uh, let the conservatives defend themselves

It's under them that our country is becoming third class.

[0007]

45. Exactly this is what William Bennett and Lynne Cheney did

when they went on their University tour three years. They even tried to black ball certain so-called left wing professors.

[Barkley]

48. let's go after the conservative University institutions

And lets start with the University of California UC.

Despite all the rhetoric, the UC as a system is conservative.

1. Much of the protests of the 1960s was directed at the UC
2. During the 1970s-80s faculty and students lead anti-apartheid
to get the UC system to divest it holding from companies supporting South Africa.

Where were the conservative students during this struggle against racism.

3. During 1999-00 years, the graduate students of UC formed a union because they taught nearly 50% of courses at UC. The UC system faught the formation of a graduate student union with all its might.

4. This year, Dinesh D'Souza spoke at UC-Irvine (paid by the University). The horrible things this man said about Arabs and Islam were beyond belief.



Why is it that professors are so liberal?

Professors have more information/ knowledge -- that doesn't make them right but it does make them more informed than average.

Could it be that logic and reason derived from the facts has led them to a liberal outlook/ perspective?

I teach college economics and often ask students about the size of government. The conservative students are in favor of cutting government spending except when comes to financial aid, grants and loans for college students.

I wear a MLK button that says "Stand Against War and Racism" everywhere I go.

I tell student that they are free to wear, FUBU, A&F, Banana Rep. etc. and I am free to wear MLK.

I tell students my opinion and I let them know that the world is bigger than my ideas and they are free to have any opinion.

It would be hypocritical of me to express myself while they are not allowed to.

[Just Me]

61. We're liberals and progressives,...silly "sugarman",...

,...we value ALL HUMANITY (unlike ultra-conservative closed-club types).

We value ALL perspectives (unlike ultra-conservative closed-club types).

We value ALL facets of human existence (unlike ultra-conservative closed-club types).

I used to work in the domestic abuse arena. The abusers always exerted themselves as the victim.

Amazing.

[ArthurDent]

89. all seven of them

they were run out of the academy years ago!

[Tinoire]

10. Horowitz is a neoCon

9/11 and the “Anti-War” Left
David Horowitz (archive)

September 11, 2003

While the attacks of September 11, 2001 were a wake up call for all Americans, they were a particular reckoning for Americans on the political left, and within that group for Americans belonging to the Sixties generation who launched the “original” anti-war movement over Vietnam. It is members of this generation who led the protests against America’s response to 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan and then against the war in Iraq. It is members of this generation who refused to wave the flag on September 12th or any time thereafter, when it was the bracing symbol of a wounded country struggling to defend itself.

Members of this generation went even further, and blamed America itself for the attacks of September 11. They rejected the call to patriotism and to the defense of their country. “Patriotism threatens free speech with death,” spat novelist Barbara Kingsolver. “It is infuriated by thoughtful hesitation, constructive criticism of our leaders and pleas for peace. It despises people of foreign birth who’ve spent years learning our culture and contributing their talents to our economy….The American flag stands for intimidation, censorship, violence, bigotry, sexism, homophobia, and shoving the Constitution through a paper shredder.”


(snip)

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidhorowitz/dh20030911.shtml


The way to think about the war on terror is to ask yourself who is supporting President Bush and the American military in this life and death engagement, and who is not?

Help is certainly not coming from the European nations who armed and then appeased Saddam Hussein and opposed the liberation of Iraq and who now refuse to aid America in securing the peace.

Far worse, with exception of fading candidates like Joe Lieberman and John Edwards, it is certainly not coming from the leaders of the Democratic Party who from the moment Baghdad was liberated have with ferocious intensity attacked the credibility of America’s commander-in-chief, the justification for our mission in Iraq, and the ability of our forces to prevail.

In this mission of sabotage, no political figure has stooped as low as Al Gore. In the wake of the war that went spectacularly well – the swiftest, most casualty-free liberation of a nation in human history – Al Gore has accused the President of deceit and cynical manipulation of the facts with the purpose of misleading the American public and sacrificing American soldiers. By linking these accusations to the Florida election recount, he and other Democrats have implied that the war was merely an instrument of a partisan plot to deprive them of their claim to the White House.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidhorowitz/dh20030908.shtml

(snip)

Adherents of this anti-American creed variously describe themselves as “Marxists,” “anti-globalists,” “anti-war activists” or, more generally, “progressives.” Their secular worldview holds claims that America is responsible for reaction, oppression, and exploitation across the globe and causes them to regard this country as the moral equivalent of militant Islam’s “Great Satan.” This explains the otherwise incomprehensible practical alliances that individuals who claim to be avatars of social justice make with Islamo-fascists like Saddam Hussein.

Among the intellectual leaders of this left are Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Gore Vidal, Edward Said and Cornel West; among its figureheads, Angela Davis and Ramsey Clark; among its cultural icons, Tim Robbins, Barbara Kingsolver, Arundhhti Roy and Michael Moore; among its political leaders, Ralph Nader and the heads of the three major “peace” organizations (Leslie Cagan, Brian Becker and Clark Kissinger); among its electoral organizations, the Green Party and the Peace and Freedom Party; among its elected officials Congresswoman Barbara Lee (D-California) and Congressman Dennis Kucinch (D-Ohio); among its organizations, the misnamed Center for Constitutional Rights and the National Lawyers Guild; among its publications and media institutions, The Nation, Z Magazine, The Progressive, Counterpunch, Pacifica radio, Indymedia.org and commondreams.org. Like the Communist Party in the heyday of the Soviet empire, the influence of the hard left –intellectually and organizationally – extends far beyond the institutions, organizations and publications it controls.

(snip)

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/davidhorowitz/dh20030505.shtml



David Howrowitz. Another vile reptile who posted as a "Liberal".


He can't know better because he is no better. Never has been.

[MisterP]

11. the same is echoed in DLC output:

“...it is, in the end, a relief to see the anti-globalization movement fade.
“This does not mean, of course, that the trade debate itself has ended in the US, or that future initiatives will move across entirely smooth waters.
“But the larger challenge the anti-globalization movement seemed to pose has clearly lost its force. As theatre, this may be a loss. As policy, it is the right result.”
—Edward Gresser, on the DLC’s New Democrats Online site

“Too many on the left seem incapable of taking America’s side in international disputes, reflexively oppose the use of force, and begrudge the resources required to keep our military strong. Viewing multilateralism as an end in itself, they lose sight of goals, such as fighting terrorism or ending gross human rights abuses, which sometimes require us to act—if need be outside a sometimes ineffectual United Nations. And too many adopt an anti-globalization posture that would not only erode our own prosperity but also consign billions of the world’s neediest people to grinding poverty. However troubling the Bush record, the pacifist and protectionist left offers no credible alternative.
“Progressive internationalism stresses the responsibilities that come with our enormous power: to use force with restraint but not to hesitate to use it when necessary, to show what the Declaration of Independence called ‘a decent respect for the opinions of mankind,’ to exercise leadership primarily through persuasion rather than coercion, to reduce human suffering where we can, and to create alliances and international institutions committed to upholding a decent world order. We must return to four core principles that have long defined the Democratic Party’s tradition of tough-minded internationalism: (national strength, liberal democracy, free enterprise, and world leadership.)”
—Ronald Brownstein, “Progressive Internationalism,” the DLC’s New Democrats Online


And these repellent PNAC/Republican-not-even-lite Quislings and their bootlickers say that they and only they can save the Democratic party from "oblivion" (funny how they've been in charge the past years)

[Maat]

15. Wow ... I never believed those DLC-types represented me..

but after reading your post, they SURE don't represent me in any way, shape or form whatsoever.

To think this is what is holding itself out as representative of my party ... it's not human .... its Rethuglican Lite!

[Voltaire99]

22. Excellent post. The DLC is our enemy, too.

We can hardly hope to fight the GOP when the most influential and powerful group within the Democratic Party is carrying water for the right wing, too.

Let us scour every last vestige of the right wing from the party. Let our cry be: To hell with Lieberman and the Liebermen!

[MisterP]

46. someone will come along to decry such a "circular firing squad"

"why are you attacking Prime Minister Quisling? The REAL threat is the occupation!"
only in America can someone say, with a straight face, that a neocon Trojan horse is necessary for survival

[Just Me]

64. Geez. How you could respond so "____" to such puff,...

,...is beyond me.

You are not being the epitome of reason to me, today. You are just being "pissed off". Which is fine 'cause I feel it and express it far more often than I should.

BUT,...I'll be damned if I'll let anyone slip on the broad-brush "enemy" thingy,...'cause I've had quite enough of that crap.

I am a member of the human race,...not a political/religious/gender/capital/etc denomination. I am sick of anyone categorizing "a people" as an "enemy" due to some affiliation. I AM SICK OF IT!!!!

[Voltaire99]

68. It's not "a people," first of all...

It's a political organization. Truly, unlike matters of race or sexual preference, one is never born a DLC member. This is that exception where one chooses identity. ;-)

Secondly, its agenda is the opposite to what the party historically represented, and should represent again.

Thirdly, politics is as much about coalitions as it is about antagonisms--i.e., enemies. We are not political "friends" with the Republicans. Nor should we be with those in our party who would have us legislate and militate like Republicans.

This all may make you "SICK!!!" as you say, but really, now, this is a battle for the future of our society, nation, and world. We can't do it with kids' gloves on. We must draw some lines and choose sides and bloody some noses and make some people walk the plank: all metaphorically speaking, of course. Later, when we've thrown the bums out, we can go back to singing campfire songs. ;-)

[Just Me]

70. Of course it is necessary to draw lines,...

,...making some "walk the plank" by confronting them with the "values" they fail to advance. Yes, I agree. (I'll treat the "campfire songs" comment as merely a boyish poke, for now *LOL*).

My point of disagreement concerns approach. Instead of offering comradery to those individuals who DO work to advance common values, we destroy the good along with the bad.

How can IMPACTFUL "coalitions" build without advancing the pertinent individuals within existent systems? Hmmmm.

With respect to "peoples",...I disagree with your philosophy that "a people" is only that body of human beings which falls into a specific "category" without choice. In my humble opinion, whether by fate or birth or choice or circumstance, "a people" can be defined by loyalty or adherence to any common association/structure.

I could be wrong. But, if I am,...then, an argument could be made that Americans or Iraqis or Sudanese or Japanese or Bohemians or Jews or Protestants or gypsies are not really "a people".

[Voltaire99]

75. Fair point

Thank you for clarifying.

My point of disagreement concerns approach. Instead of offering camradery to those individuals who DO work to advance common values, we destroy the good along with the bad.

Perhaps you see within the DLC common values. I am all for camaraderie offered to comrades, but I am a miser where opponents are concerned. And it is not I, or those like me, who have thrown down the gauntlet in this case, anyway: we never asked the DLC to drag our party into neo-liberalism.

With respect to "peoples",...I disagree with your philosophy that "a people" is only that body of human beings which falls into a specific "category" without choice. In my humble opinion, whether by fate or birth or choice or circumstance, "a people" can be defined by loyalty or adherence to any common association/structure.

That is a good and subtle point. I'm not unmoved by it.

Perhaps I misunderstood you initially when you wrote:

I am a member of the human race,...not a political/religious/gender/capital/etc denomination. I am sick of anyone categorizing "a people" as an "enemy" due to some affiliation. I AM SICK OF IT!!!!

As I understand your cri de coeur now it was meant to calibrate the difference between camaraderie and enmity--perhaps to make me see that the latter sometimes comes at the cost of the former. I am all for camaraderie with those doing at least some good; and you would appear to excel at that, given your gracious manner in this exchange, whereas my political nose is all for scrapping. Noses none of us choose, at least not without botox. ;-)

[Just Me]

91. You tickled my gut with that last line,....

:bounce:

I am still tickled!!! It feels good,...no, it feels great!!!

I am glad that you are "not unmoved" by my post.

I am usually moved by your contributions,...especially when you let a little loose.

[FDRrocks]

12. Horowitz is a self-hating anti-semite and a rascist...

I have absolutely no proof to back this up.

/Horowitz-mode

[sonicx]

14. hmm...

Lovely Quote...

"Help is certainly not coming from the European nations who armed and then appeased Saddam Hussein..."


you're looking into a mirror, pal.

[American Tragedy]

41. How precious, Horowitz still suffering from Whittaker Chambers Syndrome

Since he was once an anti-American authoritarian Communist, all liberals and Democrats must be of exactly the same frame of mind! Uh, yeah, there's the ticket.

[TankLV]

42. David Horowitz is a neoCon

Truth be known there is no Democratic Party anymore just The Republican Far Right and The Republican Less Far Right Parties

[mallard]

72. Re: never being bullied - except by authorized bullies

"In this mission of sabotage, no political figure has stooped as low as Al Gore. In the wake of the war that went spectacularly well – the swiftest, most casualty-free liberation of a nation in human history – Al Gore has accused the President of deceit and cynical manipulation of the facts with the purpose of misleading the American public and sacrificing American soldiers. By linking these accusations to the Florida election recount, he and other Democrats have implied that the war was merely an instrument of a partisan plot to deprive them of their claim to the White House." - David Horowitz 9/11/03

It's unbelievable how dangerous this type of 'applied misinformation' can be. Al Gore had it right, Mr. Bulldozer. Cynical manipulation indeed - delivered in a classic LIHOP/MIHOP-cover package.

[intheflow]

13. I think this is happening at my very liberal seminary.

Conservative students are enrolling and then complaining that their beliefs are not affirmed or tolerated. Meanwhile, I don't see the conservative seminary that's literally 2 miles down the road bending over backward to embrace or even accommodate liberal theologies.

This other seminary has a statement of faith that must be signed to graduate. My seminary, which is "open and affirming" to GBLT, women, and progressive people of faith, is striving to be open to everyone regardless of belief in an attempt to be inclusive.

The impulse to be inclusive is nobly motivated, but in the end, I feel like it's the DLC all over again. Moving right to try to please everyone will eventually only serve to piss off your left wing base. What was that old saying about having such an open mind your brain falls out? Why do we on the left do this to ourselves?

[Maat]

16. That's an interesting story, Intheflow.

I hope that your seminary continues to be inclusive, open, and affirming. Sounds like pressure is being put on someone to eradicate that. That would be a serious shame! Keep up the good fight!

P.S. What always amazes me is how DLC-types keep talking about doing everything they can to attract people from the center or to the right ... as if they can take their progressive people for granted. Wrong. And we need to say so, no matter what the institution is.

[TahitiNut]

17. Next: Capital Punishment for Heresy.

Man descended from the ape? Heresy. All men (and women!) created equal? Heresy. Insulting one's "betters"? Heresy. Abortion? Heresy. Homosexuality? Heresy. Contraceptives? Heresy.

It's a headlong rush to a new Dark Ages.

[Lexingtonian]

18. Isn't 'conservative education' an oxymoron, or an impossibility?

I suggest that students of the kind be transferred to institutions more suitable to their limited mental capacities.

As for Horowitz, he's simply a bomb thrower who switched from American Communist to fascism. Exactly why he's so embittered at universities would make for a good story- just look at his enemies list. I'd say "failed intellectual" would sum him up nicely. Now he whores for the kind of clients who will pay for his services.

[TyeDye75]

19. I had to sit through Religious Education

Until I was 16.

I didnt bitch and moan that it was offensive to my beliefs. (athiest)

I got my head down and worked, in the end I found it quite interesting and it became one of my strongest GCSE grades. (A*)

One of my best friends is a Jehovas Witness and his parents had him taken out of the class.

[aikido15]

20. Bunch of frigging cry babies

Whaaa Whaaaa, the teacher doesn't like me...oh brother! It's just one more thing for them to try and get attention over, I swear, they are pathetic insecure assholes.:cry:

[MSgt213]

21. What a bunch of utter bullshit. A classroom free of indoctrination?

What the fuck does that even mean? I got some news for these brilliant incoming freshmen not wanting their Christian beliefs offended. Life its self is one long and offending educational assignment. Throughout life there will be many things you are taught that offend your beliefs Christian or not.

You are going to be taught from your future bosses, coworkers, business partners, friends, girl and boyfriends, relatives, sons and daughters, neighbors and enemies things that will shake your beliefs to their very foundation. You won't be able to sue then so get the fuck over it and do the fucking assignment like everyone else. Being exposed to something that differs from the way you were raised shouldn't offend you as much as your own indoctrinated intolerance does.

One of the great things about this country is that you can be as free thinking or closed minded as you choose. If you don't want to let your mind be free and open then don't attend an institution that is steeped in that type of educational experience. Start checking the reading assignments out at all schools until you find one you can get in lockstep with.

P.S. Mr Horowitz is banking on you not being able to think for yourself.

[Voltaire99]

23. What terrible little shits!

Ack, just like the Hitler Youth--eyes on fire, heads filled with orders.

Is this not what you get when a generation is raised on an intellectual diet consisting of equal parts FOX, Playstation, Britney and Jesus?

If Ronald Reagan and Rupert Murdoch had knocked up Phyllis Schlafly in an exhaustive menage a trois, and the fertilized egg was taken immediately by the CIA to a base in Roswell and cloned and turned into a mutant army of clods who would be kept floating in tanks until the fateful day when they would be sent forth on a mission to fuck up the entire planet, these kids would be the leaders.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemBones DemBones]

29. Maybe you should transfer to a conservative college.

Liberty University, say, or Bob Jones.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. I call bullshit on your bullshit!

I have seen quite a few of those "conservative" papers and using religious text as "proof" does not cut it! There are many conservatives you can argue well, and they always seem to do well. It is the intellectually lazy ones who bitch the most. Their sheltered life has failed to create critical thinkers and college is too tough for them. And, yes, I worked at universities and soon will again. I will not tolerate "because I said so, or because my preacher said so" as proof!

[VegasWolf]

34. Since conservative viewpoints are inherently stupid, lower grades are

appropriate.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[robertpaulsen]

86. Wow! So eloquent, so insightful, so...TOMBSTONED!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[prodigal_green]

49. conservative "viewpoints"

have to be backed up by facts in order to be valid. I spent several years in academia. I failed both liberal and conservative students who were sloppy in their work. Idealogues of either stripe were often so narcissistic that they failed to do the WORK needed to support a claim.

The university where I worked had some of the best libraries in the world. The law library was open to all, the archives were open to all. If students simply relied on information culled from the main library or from magazines and opinions, their grades were reduced. They had to show some initiative in gathering data.

I can't even begin to imagine what kind of crap is turned out by students these days who rely solely on internet sources that are themselves constructed of speculative arguments and discredited "facts".

The first thing every totalitarian government does, whether left or right, is destroy the intelligensia--that way, you don't have pesky things like science and philosophy getting in your way.

If you don't like a certain class or a particular professor's take on a subject, then switch. Capitalism works in the university as well.

[Carl Brennan]

50. Can we teach evolution in your church?

Why do you feel it neccessary to disrupt thinking at every turn. Don't you see what it has done to this country with the faith based war in Iraq and other Bush idiocies.

[GinaMaria]

57. yawn

Tell me about the 'liberal' professors running the B school. Future CPA's rebel against your left wing instructors. /sarcasm.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carl Brennan]

31. ROFLMAO!!

Voltaire never spoke more enlightening words.

:toast:

[slutticus]

39. Hey! Don't diss Playstation!

:evilfrown:

[Swamp Rat]

78. HAHAHAHA!!!

Add a little Zell Miller and Jerry Falwell DNA and you have a real poison coctail for making future BushBots.

[Piperay]

24. Students used to want go to college

to be exposed to new and different ideas, if you're not going to do that why bother going??? :shrug:

[NNN0LHI]

25. Horowitz is an asshole who believes in torture of "suspected" terrorists

Hitler would have been proud of this prick. Fuck him and the horse he road in on. Whatever he gets he got coming.

Don

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

55. Former Communist spy who switched sides based solely on

where the money is. We have a shit-for-brains with a similar history spewing nonsense here in Brazil, but I won't grace him with the mention of his name.

Edited for typo

[Swamp Rat]

79. Quero saber?

Quem é?

[Deja Q]

27. Well, if they can pull this than so can we. And if we don't, then we

deserve to lose.

[liberalcenter]

28. In Colorado

They tormented us for years.
Metro State Death Threats etc. total mess here. They even tried to get legislation passed to give them more power.
Thankfully we took the State House and Senate back so no more of that crap.

[0007]

47. They tormented WHO for years? And WHO are THEM?

Please give some facts and links. A little transparency will help.

[donco6]

90. It's true

The RW legislature even threatened legislation straight from Horowitz's playbook

http://studentsforacademicfreedom.org/archive/September2004/APacadbillseffectsworry091004.htm

[Carl Brennan]

30. Anybody got any ideas on how to target CONservative Rethug students?

My imagination isn't working very well today.

[Carl Brennan]

36. How about banning these gospel preaching shitbrains

on campus or confine it to the study of Mythology? Whenever they start their BS just say it is off topic: "this is not a course in mythology".

Anybody confronted by these bozos could just say: "It is excellent mythology, it has alot of strong adherents....".

[GinaMaria]

58. start with the B school

Future CPAs being taught by liberal professors! The outrage /sarcasm

[Behind the Aegis]

33. And we slide further into the quagmire

This is one of the reason the US is so far behind and cannot catch up to the rest of the world. We have lazy people, who are lazy thinkers. Any challenge is met with cries of oppression, instead of critical thinking. A few will rise to the top, they will be the next generation of Rethugs, the rest will be nothing more than minions who think they, too, will be able to achieve some type of status, but sadly, they will be doomed by their own stupidity!

[VegasWolf]

35. Makes it easy to get an A, just say god made it so! n/t

[VegasWolf]

37. Isn't "conservative education" the greatest oxymoron ever. Wonder

what they learn, Jesus 101?

[StopDiggingTheHole]

52. I would leave Jesus out of an otherwise political argument

It just seems to makes sense.

[VegasWolf]

63. Because theology may be the only thing a

"conservative education" is good for. Being upset
at the mention of jesus seems to show that a counter balance
to a creeping conservatism is vital.

[depakid]

38. More manufactured controversy

Now that Christmas is over, I guess this is what they'll be manipulating people to talk about. My new year's resolutution to be out of here by 2006 gets more appealing every day.

[caligirl]

40. I like my sons AP teachers method, these kids don't know enough yet to

have an opinion. So they aren't allowed to right one in their papers. Just the facts. Only after extensive reading and lectures are they knowledgeable enough to have an opinion.

Don't like the way he teaches- withdraw.

[0007]

44. An attitude adjustment will come with the draft.

[StopDiggingTheHole]

53. What draft?

Whom do you think will suggest we need a draft first? Pub, Dem, Green, Indy or other party? Which will call for it first?

[Cobalt Violet]

62. Repuklic*nts

[Voltaire99]

76. Good question

I'd like to hear the answer, too.

Hillary floated a draft trial balloon over a year ago, in another display of her instinct for empire.

Now, of course, it's nearly 2005, and no one wants to go to Iraq. Unhappily for those who would foist a draft upon the public, the joys of war fever have passed, and the long slog has already settled in against a backdrop of torture and other war crimes.

My hunch is Bush will cut and run first. But I will not be surprised if he is outflanked by Democrats who try, in Kerryesque fashion, to portray Iraq as merely a failure of planning, execution, etc.--in other words, a simple technocratic failure, rather than the hugely dishonest and immorally-waged war of aggression that it most surely is.

[StopDiggingTheHole]

51. Please describe this "slippery-slope agenda" you speak of

What exactly is this Horowitz guy up to that involves a slippery-slope agenda?

[rocktivity]

54. Kick them out of school if they don't want to learn,

and if they hold their Christian beliefs in such high esteem, they can put them to work in Iraq.

:headbang:
rocknation

[athenap]

56. Where is it written that these kids have a "right" not to be offended?

If inoffensiveness were a Constitutional guarantee, then the fifty three million or so of us who voted for the One With The Brain could file a class-action suit against the current administration.

To these kids, I'd say, if your faith is so shaky it can't stand up in the face of challenging information, then maybe you need to worry more about what you learn in church rather than what you're not learning in school.

Part of going to school and going within "the system" is learning how to process the material. Sometimes, it's learning how to process the material in the way that the teacher wants you to. Either transfer out of that class or that school, or suck it up and play by the rules for the grade. Nobody ever made Dean's List by whinging.

People of strong faith are able to either resolve the differences between faith and fact (ie evolution vs. the creation myths found in nearly all religions), or accept that there is a gap between the two, and hence will require a *leap of faith* to trust that the faith and the fact can both be acknowledged, or at least lived with. (And folk who really examine their faith's creation myths will understand that it's the concepts behind the myths that are significant to the religion, not the surface text.)

[antigone382]

67. Welcome to DU, fellow strong Greek mythological female!

Many very excellent points.

I'm in college now, and, believe it or not, I *like* having my mind stretched. Though I enjoy talking politics with my liberal professors, I also enjoy the chance to challenge one with a differing opinion. I view it as an opportunity to galvanize my own beliefs, as well as broaden my understanding in general. I don't want a school full of people who think exactly the way I do...at least, not until I talk sense to them. :)

[Voltaire99]

69. Nice post. Welcome to DU.

To these kids, I'd say, if your faith is so shaky it can't stand up in the face of challenging information, then maybe you need to worry more about what you learn in church rather than what you're not learning in school.

Exactly.

Curiously, for religious warriors, faith seems less to have armored and armed our American Taliban with fierceness than to have made them prickly, insecure, bitter, and frail. They are organized around unending grievance. Professors force modernity upon them. Schools won't let them cherry-pick reality. It's so unfair!

And yet ludicrous though they seem there is that totalitarian exterminating air about them. What a vile lot--they may do terrible damage to our society yet.

[GinaMaria]

59. Conservative Education

It's difficult to muster the intellectual curiosity needed for university when you're so damn sure you are right all the time.

[VegasWolf]

65. Next they will want to teach intelligent design in state universities.

[aikido15]

66. These people are seriously...

trying to send me over the edge. What makes people like this? Do they just need attention? No one could be that offended by so many stupid things, not really...could they?

[lonestarnot]

73. Satan loosed on da planet yall...Stirr'n it in every direction...

Neocon agenda proof and Christ wouldn't fly down off the mountain for the freak either. Bullies try to have their way until we stand up and I am standing with my pitchfork sharpened!

[serryjw]

74. It took me an HOUR to find this.

I remember when it happened.
quote.......
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT BERKELEY
Academic Freedom After September 11th
Friday, February 27, 2004 8:00 AM
Sproul Rooms, International House

In the aftermath of 9/11, the Bush administration has pushed through legislation, including the Patriot Act, that seriously threatens fundamental civil liberties. The impact on institutions of higher learning range from the creation of blacklists of "Un-American" professors to the imminent passage of H.R. 3077, which seeks to create an Advisory Board of political appointees to monitor the activities of federally-funded Title VI National Resource Centers (including Berkeley's CMES). Some of the questions to be raised in this conference are: How has the academy as a whole, and Middle Eastern Studies in particular, been affected by the transformations of post-9/11 America? In what ways are these changes related to the larger processes that have shaped the academy over the past generation? How have students and faculty, especially those with academic or cultural ties to the Middle Eastern and Muslim states targeted by the "War on Terror," responded to threats to their academic freedom?

-------end quote
http://www.campus-watch.org/eventspast.php

quote.....


The implications of HR 3077's intense nationalism are frightening. ... With the ratification of HR 3077, all of these area studies and language programs are now subject to government oversight. According to the language of the bill, professors whose ideological principles may not support U.S. practices abroad can have their appointments terminated, any part of a course's curriculum containing criticisms of U.S. foreign policy can be censored, and any course deemed entirely anti-American can be barred from ever being taught. ...
http://home.earthlink.net/~acisney2/id123.html

[wildeyed]

77. If they get conservatives in the liberal arts,

do we get liberals and ethicists in the MBA programs? Seriously. Allot of the insane greed and dishonesty we see in government and business right now emanates from those programs. They could use some dissenting viewpoints.

[bin.dare]

80. we would get BAs in the conservative arts ...

... i wonder what form they would take. hmmm

survey of world religions = the bible
survey of world history = the bible
survey of world literature = the bible
survey of world philosophies = the bible
survey of science = the bible
...
...

[AmericanRevival6]

82. The idea that you have to be smart to be a political scientist

or a sociologist just blows my fucking mind to bits!

[unpossibles]

83. crap

"In Colorado and Indiana, a national conservative group publicized student allegations of left-wing bias by professors. Faculty received hate mail and were pictured in mock "wanted" posters; at least one college said teacher received a death threat."
so.... faculty got death threats by conservative spoiled brats who probably never worked for a dime, and this is ok, but the teachers are not allowed to discuss their own views?

I am soooo sick of this growing wave of anti-intellectualism, anti-learning, anti-everything that is not Dubya and what he allegedly stands for.

[warrens]

84. When I was in college

my professors were mostly moderate right to right. No outright lunatics, but they were solid Kissinger/Nixon type Republicans. Oh, to sue them all for anything that offended me in the slightest.

These pukebags are not going to win, but that will just make them more whiney and annoying. Scumbuckets.

[48pan]

85. No Problem Here at my College

We just put out a proposal for queer studies content in most courses and got nothing but positive responses. Our President is female and large percentage of our administrators are gay.

We've got only one conservative on our department faculty of 28 and he keeps his mouth shut. Conservative speech is not tolerated here.

[DemBones DemBones]

87. I don't think I would like a college where

conservative speech is not tolerated. There are conservatives who are intelligent. It's easy to forget that if you've ever listened to Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity but it's true. Everyone on the faculty thinking the same is a frightening idea.

[Swamp Rat]

88. What an alien lizard turd!

[ObamaFan2500]

92. Horowitz causes nothing but trouble

Same story from this guy. I used to watch his show "Fight Back" , but they canceled it. Got to give him credit for causing problems, saying that there is too many Jew professors, that there ought not be a field of sociology. That isn't ture, i studied sociology and I got insights from it. Learned about the way a socitty is structured jsut a jump off point. NO point in bitching about.