Corporate jet veers off runway in New Jersey - crashes

[doxieone]

Showing on CNN right now. Jet holds 12 people.

Crossed highway, into warehouse.

[Last Lemming]

1. Any democratic senators on board n/t

[hippiechick]

2. Or Execs from companies competing with Halliburton ?

:shrug:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. Don't laugh. The plane is out of Dallas. I suggest we take a good

look at the passenger list.

[rainbow4321]

52. You mean this one?

[ET Awful]

3. Nah, but I hear the pilot is the same guy who taught Dubya how to ride

a bike.

[leftchick]

4. link... It slammed into a building... yuck!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050202/ap_on_re_us/plane_crash


Corporate Jet Slams Into N.J. Building

8 minutes ago U.S. National - AP



TETERBORO, N.J. - A corporate jet slammed into a building Wednesday after going off the runway at Teterboro Airport.



A traffic helicopter pilot for New York radio station WCBS says it appears the plane went off the runway, broke through a fence, crossed a highway and slammed into the building.


Television reports showed smoke billowing from the building and skid marks leading to the crash site.


There was no immediate word on injuries.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. I hope whoever is on this plane

can get out.

There is a slim chance for surviving because the plane was still on the ground.

[Cooley Hurd]

6. Aerial view of crash area...

Red arrow indicates path of aircraft...

[rjbny62]

7. video here

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_020205_planecrash.html

[Corgigal]

8. NBC-Today Show

Also mentioned a vehicle being struck by the jet.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. There is footage of several squished cars. At least one person

had to be cut out of their car.

[cal04]

9. Jet Crashes on Takeoff from Teterboro

Metro Traffic's John Delgiorno says the plane was a Challenger aircraft, a CL-600 that can seat anywhere approximately 13 people including crew members. Eyewitness News is told 12 passengers were on board.

The plane is said to have been registered in Dallas, Texas to a company called 448 Alliance, LLC - a property tax consulting firm. Eyewitness News is told it was en route from New York to Chicago's Midway Airport.

[cal04]

10. Apparently this is not the first incident with their planes

Business Jet Rolls Off Atlanta Runway

Provided By: The Associated Press
Last Modified: 2/27/2004 2:07:58 AM

ATLANTA (AP) -- A business jet rolled off the runway at Peachtree-DeKalb Airport in north Atlanta Thursday afternoon, after the city's worst winter storm this year.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Christopher White said no one was injured. "I'd consider it a minor incident," White said. "There was no damage to the plane. We just have to pull it out of the mud."

The Gulfstream 3, a twin-engine aircraft capable of holding 19 passengers, was landing on Runway 20 Left when it rolled off the end of the runway. It was registered to a Dallas based company, 448 Alliance LLC. White said he could not verify if the incident was weather-related, but the National Weather Service announced that about an inch of snow had fallen in the area early Thursday morning.


http://www.wxia.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=43481

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. I just found another article about that accident. Magic Johnson was

a passenger on that flight.

http://www.wgnx.com/Global/story.asp?S=1672400

[absolutezero]

11. That's right near my house

Everyone in this area has always been worried about something like this happening.

FYI, Teterboro is for small aircraft only and it's surrounded by a small industrial area with the exception of Bergen Tech Highschool, which just happens to be the building right next to that warehouse. And where my cousin goes to school.

[Corgigal]

12. Yeah runway 24

doesn't look like it has much room for error and especially in cold weather. Stupid place to put an airport.

[absolutezero]

15. It doesn't

Driving on I46 (the road in the picture) will show you what its like to have a plane take off and land 25ft away. These things get so low that they almost touch the building across highway.

[CO Liberal]

37. I Remember Driving By There....

...as planes were taking off from that runway. Quite un-nerving.

[leftofthedial]

28. more likely a stupid place to put an office park

[DainBramaged]

29. It's been there for 40 years, you want to fight developers

over the price of land in NJ? Ever been to Greensboro or Ronaoke airports? If you have, notice all the pretty buildings nearby.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Hell that's nothing compared to the offices in the runway path

of Lindbergh Field in San Diego....large passenger planes come right over the top of a 3 story park

[rinsd]

48. You ain't kidding...

Whenever a jet passes over, conversation stops(even on the phone), the Tivo pauses the TV etc. We call it the OB pause.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

43. What's even stupider is that there is a Tech High School right there. n/t

[DemoTex]

39. Technically, the jet was using runway 6.

It is runway 6 (060-degrees) when it is active for northeast operations and runway 24 (240-degrees) when it is active for southwest operations. When the runway is not in use it is generally called runway 6/24.

[annabanana]

13. Jinxed company? two crashes for 448 Alliance. LLC

"A Property Tax Consulting Firm" out of Texas.

Bad pilots? Bad Planes? Bad Company?

IMWTK

[rainbow4321]

26. The other crash....

Sounds like same scenario....


http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/ap_newfullstory.asp?ID=32072


A business jet rolled off the runway at Peachtree-DeKalb Airport in north Atlanta Thursday afternoon, after the citys worst winter storm this year. Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Christopher White said no one was injured.

I'd consider it a minor incident, White said. There was no damage to the plane. We just have to pull it out of the mud.

The Gulfstream 3, a twin-engine aircraft capable of holding 19 passengers, was landing on Runway 20 Left when it rolled off the end of the runway. It was registered to a Dallas-based company, 448 Alliance LLC.

White said he could not verify if the incident was weather-related, but the National Weather Service announced that about an inch of snow had fallen in the area early Thursday morning.

[Jersey Devil]

51. Jinxed airport - same one used by JFK Jr on his fatal flight

It is not an international airport and is used mainly by smaller corporate jets and private owners of small planes. You have no idea how crowded this area of Bergen County is. The airport is about 2 miles from the county seat of Hackensack and maybe a mile or so, if that much, from Giants Stadium in East Rutherford. Takeoffs and landings occur all the time over several major highways in the area including Route 46, Route 80, Route 17, the Garden State Parkway and the New Jersey Turnpike (I-95).

[annabanana]

14. Eyewitness accounts report explosion that drew their attention

in time to watch the plane cross the highway. An 'expert' on CBS (didn't catch the name) said that only some kind of catastophic engine explosion would have made that much noise (given the distance of eyewitnesses) and that he could see that both engine housings were substatially intact.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. WCBS is reporting that there were reported loud explosions prior

to the plane skidding across rte 46 and into the warehouse.

[barbaraann]

16. Here's the company

http://www.atatax.com/

[Last Lemming]

17. Lost the link here but

The FAA Web site says plane is registered to a company called 448 Alliance LLC, and gives an address in Dallas. Directory assistance has no company with that name, but does show a DDH Aviation at the same address. No one answered the phone there.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

23. DDH appears to be an airline brokerage company. They might not be open

yet.

Here is a link their site:
http://www.ddhaviation.com/

[DemoTex]

30. 2800 W. Mockingbird Lane, Dallas, Tx.

Sounds like a hangar or FBO at Love Field to me. What is the news in Dallas saying about this crash?

[rainbow4321]

33. Nothing yet..just same facts from nat'l news . n/t

[snooper2]

35. Damn, that address is right down by the strip bars...

:)

[rainbow4321]

36. Dallas news about crash...fire in cabin

Fire broke out in the cabin, making the pilot abort take-off.

Love Field airport (where company is based in Dallas) has told news that the company leases out private jets but they don't know who leased it today.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. 2 missing, 11 injured, according to CBS

A small jet skidded off the runway at Teterboro Airport in northern New Jersey on Wednesday, crossing a highway during the morning rush hour and slamming into a building.

Two people were reported missing and at least 11 injured, said a state police spokesman. He did not know whether those people were on the ground or in the plane, and could not confirm whether there were any deaths.

WCBS Radio helicopter traffic reporter Tom Kaminsky said the plane went off the runway and broke through a fence.

WCBS' Monica Miller reports police say one car was struck on U.S. Route 46, and two people in that car were seriously injured.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/02/national/main671071.shtml

[rocktivity]

19. I drive to Morristown every day via Route 24

The jets going into the Morristown Airport come in so low, I feel I'm being impolite by not waving to the pilot!

Someone once told me that parts of the New Jersey Turnpike are straightaways so that they can serve as emergency runways. I didn't believe it at the time, but the section of Route 24 that runs by the airport is a straightaway, too. Actually, it makes sense.

:headbang:
rocknation

[readmylips]

32. Is that Morristown near Cherry Hill and

Cinnaminson? There are two Morristowns in NJ; one is a rich old area, the other is a slum by Edison township. I used to live in Cinnaminson, near the rich area of Morristown.

[rocktivity]

38. It's the Morristown south of Parsippany--Edison is closer to Route 27

with all the signs bragging about how "historic" it is. I also drive by George Washington's headquarters every day, but my favorite landmarks are the Century 21 department store and the Godiva chocolate shop!

:headbang:
rocknation

[CO Liberal]

56. I Went to Washington's Headquarters A Lot Over The Years

On school field trips, and with my Boy Scout troop. Later, I brought my children there to get them interested in history.

[CO Liberal]

49. The One Near Cherry Hill is Moorestown

Morristown is in Morris County - 40 miles west of NYC on US-202, NJ-24, and I-287.

I grew up there.

[jhain]

41. all fed highways designed as such

http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch3en/conc3en/ch3c2en.html

[CO Liberal]

45. I Grew Up In Morris Township

I remember driving from Florham Park toward Morristown on Columbia Road as larger planes were taking off from morristwon Airport. There's nothing quite like a huge plane suddenly appearing above the cattails of the swamp....

[rocktivity]

54. I nearly fainted when I drove under my first huge plane

I had no idea it could handle anything that large--I thought it was on its way to or from Newark and had to make an emergency landing!

:scared:
rocknation

[DemoTex]

22. Canadair Challenger CL-601 has icing issues.

I'm not, of course, saying that it was a wing ice issue in this accident. However, that will be one of the first things the NTSB looks at. The fact that it was a frosty morning in the Newark/New York area (aircraft de-icing operations were reportedly underway at EWR at the time of this accident) certainly supports looking at icing as a contributing factor.

A CL-601 owned by Epps Air Service of Atlanta was involved in a fatal crash (on takeoff) in Birmingham, England a couple of years ago. The probable cause of that crash has been determined to be ice or frost adhering to the upper surfaces of the wings . There was no evidence that the crew had their aircraft de-iced on that frosty morning in Birmingham.

It was also a Canadair CL-601 that crashed on takeoff from Telluride, Colorado late last year, injuring Dick Ebersol and killing his youngest son. Wing ice is thought to be a factor in that crash too.


Canadair CL-601-3A

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. WNBC here in NY has been reporting a possible fire while they

were taking off.

[DemoTex]

31. Oops .. my mistake!

It looks like this was a CL-600 with a winglet kit retro-fitted. The main difference between the older CL-600-series and the CL-601-series is the powerplant. The CL-600 is powered by two AlliedSignal ALF-502 turbofan engines (the same engine as on the BAe-146 airliner). The CL-601 is powered by two General Electric CF-34 turbofan engines (basically, a civilian version of the TF-34 on the USAF A-10 Warthog and US Navy S-3 Viking). The ALF-502 (originally Lycoming) has less than a stellar reputation. The old joke with the four-engine BAe-146 crews is that B.A.E. stands for Bring Another Engine.


Canadair Challenger

[rainbow4321]

40. Canadair CL-601 Challenger: Colorado crash in Dec.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D880F2V00.html

...similar plane, a Canadair CL-601 Challenger, crashed in December while trying to take off from Montrose, Colo., killing a son of NBC Sports chairman Dick Ebersol and two others. After that crash, the National Transportation Safety Board warned pilots of smaller planes to run their hands along their aircraft's wings before takeoff to make sure tiny amounts of ice haven't formed that could increase the risk of an accident.
---------------------------


But the ice theory may be moot since there are some reports <at least here in Dallas) saying that the crash was caused by the pilot trying to abort takeoff due to cabin fire.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

42. If it's any help to you, CBS in NY reported that it was built in 1980. n/t

[DemoTex]

44. Then it is probably one of these two in DDH Aviation's inventory:

These are the two 1980 CL-600s in DDH's inventory.

N370V
http://www.ddhaviation.com/c_600_sn1014.html


N260V
http://www.ddhaviation.com/c_600_sn1022.html


On edit: It was N370V, the aircraft pictured on top (S/N 1014).

[pokercat999]

53. De-icing ain't cheap.

My neighbor flys a Twin Engine King Air and had it de-iced in a small airport in upper NY. $1500.00 and it's a small plane 6 pass I think. They could have hired a limo from NY to VA and back and saved money.

[Herkdrvr]

57. The CL-600/601 series doesn't have "icing issues"

Both of the accidents you cited in your post (the Birmingham and Colorado accidents) were the result of snow, frost or ice accumulating on the wing prior to departure. ANY airplane that is left outside in winter weather conditions will accumulate snow/ice/frost, and it's the CREW's responsibility to ensure the wings are free of contaminants prior to takeoff.

The only aircraft I can think of in recent history that had any safety "issues" with icing was the ATR-42/72, which had a wing design that allowed ice to build up beyond the de-ice boots and thus the pilots could not de-ice the wings inflight. Some changes were made and the FAA approved it and now the ATR doesn't have those negative characteristics anymore.

But the CL-600/601 series is a very reliable aircraft that's highly regarded in the aviation industry.

[DemoTex]

46. WABC reporting 1 dead, 14 injured.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_020205_planecrash.html#

One witness said the pilot crawled out of the wreckage and said the crew lost control of the plane.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

47. now corrected to 19 hurt (no deaths but one critical)

[Last Lemming]

50. What about the explosion?

And who was in the plane?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

55. I have the local CBS news on now, and now nothing reported about

a fire and/or explosions.

AP has reported that the passengers were investment bankers.

Here is an video of an eyewitness account. He talks about an explosion and seeing what appeared to be a fireball crossing the road.

http://wcbs.dayport.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=18719&tf=video_player.tpl&Category_ID=48