4 Halliburton contractors working for Kellog & Boots killed in Iraq....CNN

[ElsewheresDaughter]

gunned down in their car...will post link when available

[Flagg]

1. Oopsy

[raggedcompany]

2. 232 U.S. civilian employees killed in Iraq so far (CNN 1/31/05).

I guess these raise that count to 236.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/01/31/iraq.contractors.ap/

[LostInAnomie]

3. Oh no, say it ain't so.

Shucks.

[Ganja Ninja]

4. They knew the job was dangerous when they took it.

:nopity:

[Crunchy Frog]

5. Well, at least they weren't soldiers

so their deaths won't be contributing to any embarrassing statistics for the Bu$h regime. Probably doing jobs that soldiers would have been doing in past wars. Nice way to keep the casualty counts down.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Wonder what Haliburton pays out in death benefits to survivors

bet they litigate it every step of the way

[Cooley Hurd]

51. They've probably taken "janitor's insurance" policies out on them...

Haliburton gets the loot, the families get the boot...:grr:

[TNDemo]

7. C'mon guys.

As much as I want to see the Bush cabal go down in flames, these guys have families and did not deserve to die. It is dangerous but they may have had no job here and went there out of desperation and not in an attempt to support Bush policies.

[Skittles]

10. they are war profiteers

but I do agree it is unseemly to casually dismiss any carnage in Iraq; it definitely leaves me a bad taste.

[Az_lefty]

26. Not all war profiteers...

the KBR people I met in Iraq were just contractors trying to make a living. They wound up in Iraq because they couldn't get a descent job back home.

[Skittles]

27. reminds me of the I WORK AT A TITTY BAR TO GO TO COLLEGE

excuse; it doesn't excuse the fact they whore for a living

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jdj]

44. it's way more honorable to sell your own body than to kill a bunch of

people to sell commodities that aren't yours in any way shape or form.

So both points are moot.

[htuttle]

12. Desperation? Not quite

Desperation is the guy picking aluminum cans out of the dumpster next to my building, not a guy making $10,000 a day working for the empire.

[leetrisck]

13. Maybe he was one that had been

picking up aluminum cans - does that make one feel any better or worse about the killing?

[htuttle]

14. Yea, sure

And maybe they used to rescue injured little birds when they were kids.... :eyes:

Doesn't make a whole lot of difference HOW I feel about it, does it?

[leetrisck]

21. no

it really doesn't

[MADem]

28. Most aren't making that kind of dough--in fact, I don't think ANY are

These are guys who got laid off from jobs paying 30-50K a year, who are pulling in 150-200 over there, what with the tax benefits for overseas workers. These are guys with kids in school, who can't find a job in their hometown, who are going to lose the house they've been paying on for fifteen or more years.

I can't get behind the "Good enough for them" attitude. The blame lies at the TOP, with the chimp in charge. He did this, he created the environment that causes these guys to toss the dice to "put food on their families."

It's easy to tell someone not to do it....it's harder on the family when there are NO JOBS, the rent is due, and the kids are HUNGRY and need shoes. I don't judge those guys, but I do judge the asshole who started this needless war.

[daleo]

37. Both sides of this debate make large assumptions.

On the one hand, they are thought of as bloodthirsty mercenaries and on the other hand desperately poor people who needed to take any work they could. There are probably cases on both extremes, conditioned by the particular type of employment they are engaged in. There probably are a lot of amoral thrill seekers among the paramilitaries and a lot of desperate blue collars among the truck drivers. The rest are probably in the middle, in it for money or (in my opinion misplaced) political or religious convictions.

My own view is that aiding the occupation of a foreign country is just wrong and I can't condone it.

[MADem]

45. I get bugged when everyone is painted with the mercenary brush

Most of the contractors over there are NOT working the security sphere--they are getting a good portion of those guys from third countries, UK, South Africa, Australia, etc. Blackwater and similar companies are different from the KBR subcontractors who are providing food and gear and electrical hookups and sanitation services and clean water--not just to OUR troops, but to the general population. Hey, "we" (and I don't support those assholes) broke it, so we have to fix it. If I broke something of my neighbor's, I'd want to make restitution, but I sure wouldn't like being shot while so doing.

[AuntiBush]

48. Couldn't agree more.

I see it in my area, too. Sad.

They don't come anymore compassionate as me. Yet, I'm sorry, I just don't feel sorry for anyone from Haliburton mining for oil, profits and all for a corp that's robbed me of my country, parents of their children, contributed to the loss of how much blood... oh, and all of the lies upon lies...

Sad days.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[bemildred]

16. Hey, "it's fun to shoot some people". nt

[MrModerate]

40. Yeah, let's get real . . .

Many of the guys I worked with in Iraq in mid- to late-2003 were desperate for the money. A lot were ex-British military, trying to survive on a skill set and a pension that left them destitute in modern UK. Others were hoping to get a leg up from their usual bordeline poverty by earning out-of-this-world pay for a year or so.

One poor schmo had had a decent career in the engineering world and then in the late 1990s took a job with a Texas-based energy trader, transferring his life's savings (401K) to his new employer -- Enron. He was wiped out, mid-50s, with children in college, and a depressed market for his field back home.

Did any of these guys deserve to die?

[MADem]

46. All violent death is terrible

...and I'm with you. I can't cheer anyone's death. Of course, if the chimp slipped on a banana peel, fell on his ass, and pooped his pants, I would laugh, but I don't like anyone to die a horrible death.

It's just not a nice thing to cheer.

[mdhunter]

8. Oops, I'm sorry, I must have stumbled into FreeRepublic... my bad

Nice responses - especially given that the post had zero additional context. For all we know they were the 4 lead engineers for sanitation infrastructure or something - as if who they work for or what they do actually matters.

When else do we really ask so much of murder victims?

[htuttle]

15. "When else do we really ask so much of murder victims?"

When they work for the mob?

:shrug:

[IA_Seth]

31. Hear, Hear!

This thread is a bit sickening.

[Barrett808]

33. Then you'll love this Ted Rall cartoon: The Hero of Halliburton Hill

From 2003:

[bossfish]

32. Some of these responses make me angry...

...most of these guys back there are just guys trying to work.

In fact, I was just on the phone this morning with some KBR employees currently in Iraq - these guys maintain vehicle fleets. Not some sort of spooky mercenaries.

[saigon68]

9. 4 More mercenaries Bite the Dust.

Our seniors need health care and prescriptions. These mercenaries won't need either.

[leetrisck]

11. But the soldiers who lived

instead of dying like these contractors will need the health & benefits - won't they? Had it not been the contractors, it would have been the soldiers so are the contractors helping out the soldiers?

[saigon68]

18. None of them are helping the seniors or the Taxpayer

The only ones being helped are the HALLIBURTON ( 2 L's) Stockholders and

President Cheney (the draft dodging COWARD)-- who still recieves $1,000,000.00 per year as a Golden Parachute, from his former employer.

[MADem]

29. So we need to blame the people who CAUSED this mess

Not the schmucks at the bottom of the pile, the assholes at the top. No war, no mercenenaries, no contractors....we need to chimpeach the emperor.

[noonwitch]

17. It's always bad when americans get killed, civilian or military

I think the war was wrong, but now we are there, we do owe the Iraqis some type of rebuilding effort for all the things we blew up a couple of years ago. I don't like to hear about anyone getting blown up, not soldiers, nor civilians, nor aid workers, nor Iraqi civilians and police officers. Its all bad.

[rawstory]

19. Where's the link?

It's been an hour since this was posted -- dont see a link anywhere. has this been confirmed?

[w4rma]

20. These 4 guys are more culpable than most any U.S. soldier is.

That said. I'd rather that killing and dying over there stopped.

[sarcasmo]

22. I just can not feel sorry for anyone working for Halliburton.

GREED

[Ian David]

24. Some Halliburton "employees" were kidnapped from India

I'll try and find the links somewhere, but in a nutshell:

A civilian subcontractor recruited workers from India to work in Kuwait. Next thing they know, they're being driven across the desert and told, "Surprise! You're in Iraq!" They live in horrible conditions and are abused and threatened by American military personnel and not allowed to leave.

The Indian government is raising a fuss about it.

[NYC]

47. I read about that a while back.

Sorry, but I have no idea where I read it.

[bemildred]

23. I think this is it:

Meanwhile, gunmen attacked a vehicle Thursday in Baquba, killing four Iraqis and wounding two others.

All six were employees of Halliburton Co. subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root, an American contractor in Iraq, the U.S. military said.

http://www.ksbitv.com/home/1225917.html

[ernstbass]

25. The price of greed

[Xenotime]

34. Money...

Well, I guess Halliburton has plenty of gov't money to pay the family benefits. Sigh. <eyeroll>

[Bouncy Ball]

35. They go there, KNOWING it is dangerous

to make boo-kpoo bucks. So essentially they are putting their lives on the line for money.

When they get killed, I have far less sympathy than when a soldier from a poor town in the US who felt he had no other option than to join the military and is making $21,000 a year (MAYBE) gets killed.

[Ganja Ninja]

41. Exactly! It's the hazards of the workplace.

A lot of these people quit their job here to go make big money in Iraq. I don't get any satisfaction seeing them killed but I'm not lowering the flag to half-mast for them either.

[bobthedrummer]

50. That's the main point-these folks are mercenaries aka "contractors"

part of the Private Military Company/PMC community--mercenaries.
They had a choice, unlike our US troops. Some USMC units were ordered
to take reprisals for the mutilation deaths of Blackwater employees near the former Fallujah. Mercenaries there enforced the shutdown of the local press that had regular Abu Ghraib coverage early on. There was a demonstration and the mercenaries shot the protestors (women and kids, students, elderly) in the face. It's a crime.

[egoprofit]

36. a buddy of mine worked for KB&R...

he made it back thank christ... but he said an IED blew the windsheild out of a truck he rode in... scary!

[deacon2]

38. I'm a little surprised at the tone here

I know a guy who is working in Iraq. He was lower than whaleshit in terms of society - out of work, couldn't get his meds, on the street essentially. Someone waved a big payday at him and he took the bait. So yes, it was his choice in the purest sense of free will. He's driving building supplies to rebuild schools. Does he deserve to die for that? There are people in Iraq from countries around the globe in the same position. Some folks are greedy - some folks just plain and simple saw it as their only choice. They all bleed the same. Doesn't taking delight in the death of other humans place us on the same sinking moral ship as this administration? I beg you to reconsider.

[Bouncy Ball]

43. Who is taking delight?

The day I take delight in another person's death is the day I lose my soul.

I'm simply saying I feel MORE sympathy for the poverty-striken soldier who isn't even GETTING a big pay day to be over there and is killed.

[TrogL]

39. I misread this too

I got "...working for Boots & Saddles..."

Boots and Saddles is a notorious S&M club.

[wolfgirl]

42. Every death

diminishes each of us. Those in charge should be held accountable, but we (I) have a responsibility to seek the truth and will carry the blame for my own ills whenever I fail to seek that truth.

Unfortunately there are some who get caught up in things without knowing the truth - maybe a lot of the contractors believed the lies fed them; or maybe they were desperate to provide for their families and some are just plan ignorant.

I mourn each death - civilian, military, contractor and I am outraged at our leadership for creating this horror!

(Mercenaries on the other hand are just plain idiots)

[BushSpeak]

49. How much does a Blackwater mercenary in Iraq earn !

American capitalism at it's best!

$600 a day or $180,000 a year - compared to an average of $49,000 for military personnel.

"Jerry Zovko's contract with Blackwater USA looked straightforward: He would earn $600 a day guarding convoys that carried food for U.S. troops in Iraq.

Blackwater added a 36 percent markup, plus its overhead costs, and sent the bill to a Kuwaiti company that ordinarily runs hotels. That company, Regency Hotel, tacked on its costs for buying vehicles and weapons and a profit and sent an invoice to a German food services company called ESS that cooked meals for the troops.

ESS added its costs and profit and sent its bill to Halliburton, which also added overhead and a profit and presented the final bill to the Pentagon.

It's nearly impossible to say whether the cost for Zovko doubled, tripled or quadrupled. Congressional investigators and defense auditors have had to fight the primary contractor, Halliburton, for details of the spending. The companies say the subcontracts are confidential and won't discuss them.

About 20,000 private security contractors are now in Iraq, escorting convoys, protecting diplomats, training the Iraqi army and maintaining weapons."

Contractors in Iraq make costs balloon
http://newsobserver.com/news/nation_world/blackwater/v-printer/story/1762376p-8044834c.html

This was published in October. A week before the elections Bush signed a bill giving $136 billion in tax breaks to major US companies.

Bush Signs $136B Corporate Tax Cut Bill
http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2004/10/22/ap1605887.html

Ever wonder who's really paying for this war and who really supports the troops?

[Turley]

52. I almost took a job with Brown & Root

I guess the "Kellogg" came later. I worked very closely with Brown and Root during my deployment for Operation Joint Endeavor in '95-96. After my deployment (and enlistment) was up, they offered me a job to return as a civilian to Yugoslavia. I declined because I had other plans.

I'll say this about Brown & Root based on my personal experience: Great guys doing a tough job in the worst of conditions. They took (take) a huge load off of soldiers in logistics so soldiers can concentrate on the mission at hand. I still have acquaintances working for B&R in Iraq.

You guys would be surprised at how many Democrats work for B&R. Nearly all of the workerbees are former military NCOs. I never ever would of thought of it as "whoring". I will say that nearly all of them are in it for the big paycheck as most have already done the "adventure" thing during their military careers.

JMHO Fire away.


And BTW, I will bet anyone a million dollars that when we take the White House back, B&R will still be the preferred provider of logistics support. They are the 600 lb gorilla in the sector. And that's just the way it is.

Edited for spelling