Plane missing with 104 on board - Afghanistan

[DoYouEverWonder]

February 04, 2005

AN Afghan passenger plane with 104 people on board had gone missing after being turned away from Kabul airport due to a snow storm, an airline official said today.

The Boeing 737 belonging to a private airline, Kam Air, was on a flight from the western city of Herat to Kabul yesterday, said Atilla Kamgar, the airline's financial controller.

He said the plane contacted Peshawar airport in Pakistan after being turned away from Kabul due to heavy snow that had closed the airport.

"It was given clearance to land, but it never arrived," Kamgar said. "Lahore airport earlier reported to us that it had landed in Peshawar, then when we contacted Peshawar they told us it had not landed.

A US military spokesman said the plane had been reported missing to them. It had not landed at any US-led coalition airfields in Afghanistan.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12146288%255E1702,00.html

[DemoTex]

1. Not good news.

Heavy weather. Diversion. Not good. I have thousands of hours in the B-737. Great airplane.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Lots of mountains

between Kabul and Pakistan. It doesn't look good for these folks.

[DemoTex]

4. Yep, and dwindling fuel after a diversion.

I wonder how far away the alternate airport was. Makes for bad decisions in an un-disciplined cockpit.

[Harlequin]

14. Airplane!

Hey... who's flyin' that thing?! :)

[jmcgowanjm]

3. oops. They're in a better place now.

Hopefully never felt a thing.

Unless they've pulled that soccerteampatagonia thing.

[DemoTex]

5. Do we know for a fact that the airplane has crashed?

I read missing. I am not optimistic, but I'll wait for the final word.

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Reuters link - no new info

Afghan Plane Missing with 104 on Board
Thu Feb 3, 2005 10:02 PM ET

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsChannel.aspx?type=worldNews

[DemoTex]

8. Bad link, but I see "missing" in the headline.

"Missing" is extremely bad news. But is is still a shade less than "crashed." It is, at this point, a matter of time before a crash incident is identified. There is an outside chance they diverted to a remote airport. I doubt that, but I always harbor hope.

[AP]

10. This Reuters link has most extensive info (but still nothing new).

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7534633

[Up2Late]

7. The probably hit a mountain

Hopefully head on, mountain survival, after a crash, with falling snow, NOT Good.:cry:

[DemoTex]

9. I am one of the few qualified aviation accident investigators at DU ...

I am ALPA trained as an accident investigator. I cannot buy your pre-mature analysis. They might, indeed, have hit a mountain. But at this hour we have not one whit of evidence to indicate this was a CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) accident. You are a layman. I am an expert. Tonight I know no more than you. In other words, we are equal. Let's not speculate. However, that is a likely scenario. The facts will tell.

[Up2Late]

12. Dude, I was just throwing out a layman's guess,

ease up, I thinks this sucks as much as anyone here.

[DemoTex]

15. Back-off buddy-role ..

You are with the experts. Anyone who is not on-site is guessing, like you and me. I am not dogmatic .. ALPA trained me otherwise.

[Herkdrvr]

33. It's good we have an ALPA-trained investigator...

...to impress us with his skills! This is a discussion board, not a safety board. BTW, why does a union need an accident investigator? Just wondering. Liabilities?

[karlrschneider]

17. You ever fly in that part of the world, Mac? I haven't, but I dont think

a snowstorm would be considered "freak" weather there, would it...???

[DemoTex]

18. I've flown over it .. not in it, Karl. At FL 350, etc.

No, it is not a freak WX occurrence there. It is expected. I'm worried about a poorly planned go-around that fixated on all the wrong things. Or fuel problems. Or .........

Mac

[Herkdrvr]

34. Vis can go downhill quick there...

Despite forcasts, the visibility in that part of the world can evaporate quick...and I doubt they have Cat II or III ILS approaches to fly. I could be wrong...but few of the airfields I've been to over there did.

I don't know what model of 737 it was, but I also wonder if the crew had the advantage of GPWS/TAWS?

[CoffeeCat]

32. May I ask you an OT question?

...I know this is OT--so feel free to ignore my question.

I was wondering if you had any opinion on TWA Flight 800.

Of course, I know little about aviation, but I never bought the reasons for the plane crashing (fuel tanker heating on the tarmac).

I attended the TWA Flight 800 hearings and I've always been interested in the case.

If you have any thoughts, you would like to share, I am listening.

If not, that's cool too.

[DemoTex]

16. BTW: I see where you are from .. Marietta

Watch you local stations for my friend John Wiley. He, like me, is a retired airline pilot. He often comments on-camera on aviation issues, especially on CNN.

[AP]

11. The pilot had a Canadian passport:

Fedayi said Kam Air had had no contact with the plane, which was carrying 96 passengers and eight crew members, since about 3 p.m. on Thursday.

He said the pilot held a Canadian passport, but had no details on the nationalities of the others on board.

It was unclear whether the plane could have landed at the airport in the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad, which lies on the route toward Peshawar, or any of the U.S. military air strips in Afghanistan.

Officials for the U.S. military and Afghan aviation authority officials could not be reached immediately for comment.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/2/4/latest/21138Afghanjet&sec=latest

[Up2Late]

13. Here's the BBC News Report

Thursday, 3 February, 2005, 22:15 GMT

Afghan plane missing in snowstorm
By Paul Anderson
BBC, Islamabad, Pakistan

Officials in Afghanistan have confirmed an airliner has gone missing in freak weather conditions.

The plane, carrying more than 100 people, was on an hour-long flight from the western city of Herat to Kabul.

The Kam Air Boeing 737 lost radio contact with Kabul air traffic control just after being turned away from the airport because of heavy snowstorms.

There was no suggestion in previous radio exchanges that the plane was experiencing technical problems.

Kam Air's owner, Mohammad Zamary Kamgar, told the BBC it had been cleared for take-off from Herat in the early afternoon.

There were reports from Pakistani airport officials that the plane, carrying 96 passengers and eight crew members, had made it to the Pakistani city of Peshawar, but those reports turned out to be false.

(more at link)
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4234899.stm>

[daleo]

19. I wonder if anyone important was on the flight.

I mean anyone that someone might want out of the way. Let's face it, these days you always have to wonder. Especially in Afghanistan.

[jmcgowanjm]

26. IMHO-Wealth/PovertyRatio in Afghanistan must be horrible

And yet plane travel has to be at World rates.
So, by definition there were VIPs on that plane.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. NATO Searching for Missing Afghan Jet

KABUL, Afghanistan - Afghan and NATO forces launched a ground and air search operation Friday for an Afghan passenger jet carrying 104 people that disappeared from radar screens during a snowstorm near the mountain-ringed capital. Three Americans were thought to have been on board.

<snip>

Kam Air president Zamarai Kamgar said there were 96 passengers on board, including seven foreigners. Three were believed to be American health workers. The eight-member crew included six Russians and two Afghans, Kamgar said.

<snip>

The private airline's mainly domestic flights are popular with Afghans wealthy enough to avoid long journeys over bumpy roads. Aid and reconstruction workers also use them, and three of the passengers were believed to be Americans working for Management Sciences for Health, a firm based in Cambridge, Mass., said company representative William Schiffbauer.

Schiffbauer, who is based in Kabul, said the three employees were women but declined to give further details.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=4&u=/ap/afghan_missing_plane

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Wreckage of Afghan airline found

February 04, 2005

THE wreckage of an Afghan airliner that went missing with 104 people on board yesterday has been found east of Kabul, a western security source said.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12151926%255E1702,00.html

No other details available yet.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Just heard the report

No word on any survivors. Three Americans confirmed on board the flight.

[Don1]

23. No further info available again?

Hmmm...didn't the news just say there was no further info for the sgt who died in iraq and who had a lt. son in the same unit?

The government isn't trying to hide anything! The govt and its allies do not make bad decisions. The plane just crashed spontaneously.

:eyes:

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. The weather was really bad

and they couldn't land in Kabul. It either ran out fuel or the crew got confused and hit a mountain. Under the circumstances it's amazing this doesn't happen more often.

[Up2Late]

27. One thing I just thought of...

Do you think the Kabul Air Port had any Snow removal equipment?:shrug:

Maybe that's why they had to abort the landing and try to divert?

[Up2Late]

28. self deleted

[Carni]

25. What a great opportunity for bushco...

Perhaps they could claim bin forgotten is amongst the wreckage?

[Up2Late]

29. New Reuters Update

Source: Wreckage of Afghan Airliner Found
Fri Feb 4, 2005 10:36 AM ET

By Jon Hemming

KABUL (Reuters) - The wreckage of an Afghan airliner that went missing with 104 people on board was found Friday near the capital, Kabul, a day after it was turned away because of heavy snow, a Western security source said.

But NATO troops searching for the plane denied it had been found and said they were calling off their hunt for the day because of darkness and bad weather.

The security source said the Kam Air Boeing 737 was found to the northeast of the capital, but there was no word on casualties.

"We don't know if there were any survivors," he said.

A U.S. military spokesman said he could not confirm if the plane had been found, but spokesmen for a NATO-led peacekeeping force and the Afghan Defense Ministry said it had not.

"The crash site has not been definitely detected," said an Afghan Presidential Palace official on condition of anonymity. "A suspected site was seen, but the aircraft could not land there to confirm it because of poor weather."
(more)

(Unfortunatly, the direct link to this story is NOT working, the link below takes you to the "Top News" page, where you must find and click the link to the story) :shrug:
<http://www.reuters.com/newsEarlierArticles.jhtml?type=topNews>

[diamond14]

30. first reports; LOTS of Americans aboard, then only 15, then 7, now 3

who else would be traveling through Afganistan in the winter....AMERICANS....the war-torn locals have no money to fly around....


IMO, the whole matter is being hushed-up by the pentagoon, until they can get a SPIN together, some kind of SPIN as to which American were aboard, which begs why they were there.....


it'll be a BIG cover-up.....the military is likely at the crash site now, cleaning out all the paperwork and money, etc....

[Up2Late]

31. I better not Comment

or DemoTex will be all over my ass, But it is sounding like they hit a Mountain.

I bet some CIA people were on board, so they are "Scrubbing" the crash site.

[Up2Late]

35. Well, today they are saying 6 Americans

On NPR Hourly News

Hummmmmmmmmm????

[Bombero1956]

36. 3 Massachusetts women

were killed in that flight. Cristin Gadue, 26; Amy Lynn Niebling, 29, of Somerville; and Carmen Urdaneta, 32, of Brookline were apparently the only Americans on board according to the Boston Globe. Niebling and Urdaneta were nearing the end of a three-week trip for their Cambridge-based group, Management Sciences for Health, which is helping to build a public health system in Afghanistan. They were scheduled to return home this weekend. Gadue, who grew up in Burlington, Vt., worked for the group from Kabul. I offer my condolences to their family and friends.