Doubts Raised On Schiavo Memo (is the Repug Talking Points fake?)

[rodeodance]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11250-2005Mar29.html?referrer=email

Doubts Raised On Schiavo Memo
Web Critics Question Authenticity Of 'Talking Points' Aimed at GOP

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, March 30, 2005; Page C01

Bloggers are swarming around a new target: the Terri Schiavo "talking points."

Fresh from declaring victory over CBS News and its discredited National Guard memos about President Bush, some of the same bloggers are raising questions about a strategy memo, first reported by ABC News and The Washington Post, that cast the Schiavo right-to-die case as a partisan opportunity for Republicans to stick it to Democrats.

"Fake but Accurate Again?" says the Weekly Standard headline on an article by John Hinderaker, an attorney and conservative blogger who had challenged the CBS documents......

...Fred Barnes, the Standard's executive editor, who also wrote about the controversy, said the initial reporting was "unfair. . . . I couldn't discover anybody showing any evidence that this memo was distributed to Republican senators." Barnes said that "the press is much tougher on Republicans" because both Democrats and reporters "tend to be liberals."

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Wouldn't the right say that (via the media whores) if it was true or not?

[sui generis]

5. isn't it funny that's the way they argue though

misdirection, until you pin them down and then they call you aggressive, unpatriotic or immoral and leave in a huff.

On the other hand, we're the dumbasses who can't seem to stick to the argument either, otherwise someone would have had the balls to say that whether or not Rather's sources were accurate there are still questions that remain unanswered.

It's the very least we could have done . . .

[Beetwasher]

2. Howie Howie Howie

You're a real whore's whore aren't you, you slimy fascist bootlicker. :eyes:

Really earning those kneepads today aren't you? Fucking filth.

[w4rma]

3. It looks like Kurtz has been called in again. He should be fired.

In fact, as long as that guy is working for the Washington Post, I'm not subscribing to it. I will *never* subscribe to the Washington Post as long as he is there.

[grumpy old fart]

4. and the tape of DeLay's "God sent us Terri" speech???

who gives a fuck if the memo is fake. And why hasn't CBS found the source of that Rather memo?

[maddezmom]

6. and was the tape of Tom Delay fake, too ?

~snip~
"One thing that God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo to elevate the visibility of what is going on in America, that Americans would be so barbaric as to pull a feeding tube out of a person that is lucid and starve them to death," he said in remarks Friday to a conservative group and made public Wednesday.


"This is exactly the issue that is going on in America, of attacks against the conservative movement, against me and against many others," added DeLay, lately at the center of a controversy concerning his overseas travel.


DeLay's remarks were made public by Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a liberal group. The developments occurred as polls continued to show the public takes a dim view of congressional moves to step into Schiavo's case.


CBS reported that 82 percent of those surveyed want President Bush (news - web sites) and Congress to stay out of the situation and that 74 percent said Congress was motivated by political considerations, not concern for Schiavo. At the same time, congressional job approval has dropped to its lowest level since 1997, according to the poll.
~snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_go_co/schiavo_politics_2

[AlCzervik]

7. nice try Howie, your buddies got caught and now you're trying

to cover for them. I'm sure the right will claim is was written in super liberal script so that can only mean one thing----where is Buckhead?

[Dr.Phool]

8. Howie's charges are a forgery

Probably stuck in the Washington Post by none other than Hillary Clinton and Howard Dean themselves! Anything to make Republicans look light paranoid conspiracy theorists.

[UpInArms]

36. info on "Buckhead"

http://www.bizjournals.com/industries/business_services/legal_services/2005/03/14/atlanta_story2.html?t=printable

excerpt:

In his blog on FreeRepublic.com, writing under the pen name "Buckhead," MacDougald could barely hide his excitement about the media being caught using phony documents: "We should all be gathering recipes for crow, and e-mailing them to these nitwits, because they are going to have to eat a whole lot of it."

<snip>

MacDougald is one of two Republican members of the Fulton County Elections Board, and has been actively involved in the debate over the security of Georgia's voting machines.

He's a board member of the Atlanta chapter of the Federalist Society, a group of conservative and libertarian lawyers and judges.

MacDougald was known for his role in helping to draft the petition that urged the Arkansas Supreme Court to disbar President Bill Clinton after the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

...more...

[rocktivity]

9. This thread should be locked--this is an op/ed piece

full of speculation, quotes, and circular reasoning--and signifying nothing!

:headbang:
rocknation

[rodeodance]

24. sorry, it was my mistake that I placed it here.

[rocktivity]

25. No reflection upon you, Rodeodance

We were supposed to mistake it for a "hard news" story reporting as fact that the memo was faked. But it's just a collection of speculative quotes from bloggers with a vested interest in making the GOP look good and the Dems bad.

:headbang:
rocknation

[peacetalksforall]

10. Are the lies around lies shaped like the pentagon or are the lies

within lies shaped more like a DNA coil?

[ElectroPrincess]

11. Face It Folks, Progressives will always be WRONG with Corporate News

[peacetalksforall]

12. I wish we could read posts without having to see the name of

despicable people like Fred Barnes. They should give him the Tony for bad lying, bad acting, and bad character in a support role.

[TheFarseer]

20. For Fred Barnes to masquerade as a journalist

is despicable. He's a republican shill of the highest order. I don't know why they put unreasonable people who are not debating or discussing issues in a fair and unbiased manner on the Sunday morning shows. Can I possibly learn anything from this man debating(?!) Mort Kondrake? NO!

[Spazito]

13. Wow, he doesn't even try to pretend he is objective anymore

I hope that is a sign of desparation of the right that they have to go to the worst of the shills in the CON to get their 'message' out.

[necso]

14. You have to give the other team one thing --

they will try to spin anything -- and then try to spin the spin.

And a good psywar technique is to put the real goods in a bad package -- this calls (or can be made to seem to call) the goods themselves into question -- and the obvious suspect is someone (or can be made to seem to be someone) who gains from the goods (now portrayed as being false) being true.

And disinformation is about mixing up (indeed, often flooding) the real goods with various crap -- in order to make people believe something, anything -- including the exact opposite of what the real goods (now, perhaps, more or less hidden in plain sight) have to tell.

Of course, when dealing with those that wish to believe, it is often enough just to throw out some line, any line, no matter how ridiculous, for them to grab onto -- and they will seize onto it like a drowning mans does to a life-preserver.

And then there is the power of distraction -- and all those distraction techniques.

Sigh.

Oh, and to be more explicit, this "the memo is false" line can work on many levels.
1) It gives believers a line to hold onto -- and to echo.
2) It provides a basis for attacks on those who are portrayed as being behind this "false memo" thing -- and a basis for attacks on any who put the memo forward as being true.
3) It calls into question the information in the memo.
4) It gets people thinking: "Is the memo phony but the information correct?" Or "Is it all correct -- or all wrong -- or what part is thus or so?" And etc, etc. And it gets people (some of the target audience of this psywar op) arguing and taking sides -- and distracts from them doing other things -- where it doesn't foster lingering ill will among those who should be allies.
And etc.

And it does all this at one and the same time. And to be effective it only has to effect a relative few of those who are not true believers. And if the media picks up on it -- then fuggedaboutit -- it's instant overkill... and maybe overload.

[Tempest]

15. McCain was asked about the memo and didn't deny it

McCain responded to the question as if he believed it came from the RNC.

[goodboy]

16. another Rovian Flip? Besides, it worked so well last time, didn't it.

[TheFarseer]

17. So now they can do whatever they want

as long as they plant a "fake" memo that details their plan? Is this 4th grade mystery science theatre? What the hell is going on here?

[gratuitous]

18. So the legislation just spontaneously wrote itself?

Gee, if the memo hadn't panned out to a "T" and the Republicans hadn't cobbled together a special emergency session, and Stupidhead hadn't done the unprecedented act of interrupting another of his interminable vacations to fly back to Washington to sign the bill into law, and if the new law hadn't been used in a ham-handed effort to negate 15 years of medical and legal work on the case, and if the resulting media feeding frenzy hadn't happened, and the concomitant gathering of the dunces in the old confederacy hadn't happened right on cue . . .

Then I'd say Kurtz is right.

But of course, all those things DID happen, so Howard is once again doing what he does best, and the twenty left on the dresser is all the notice he deserves.

[rodeodance]

22. tee hee--'ghostwriting' takes on a new meaning with our comments.

[Toots]

19. Fake or not they all followed those talking points..even Howie.....

They must have believed them. They followed them,.Not the talking points are the story and not their actions.. Bush* is not a Chickenhawk so stop saying that. He fought honorably in vietnam and says that he has been to war and raised two daughters and by Gawd raising two daughters is far worse than any ol' war....I think he needs another medal on his chest...

[reality based]

21. Terri who?

[Festivito]

23. Make memoes fake-looking, but real enough to pass agenda.

Then claim it is a fake, after damage to America is done.

[renaissanceguy]

28. Since when have the repugs told the truth, anyway?

Anyone who can't see their motives through their transparent actions is an idiot.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14743812

[Festivito]

31. Then do we have enough idiots to destroy democracy?

Somehow we must reach these RebumbliCONned voters.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

26. Howie Kurtz host of "Reliable Scum Sucking Piece of Repuke Shill Shit"

A little long in the title, but at least it captures the gist of his CNN show more accurately.

JB

[bunkerbuster1]

27. We all knew this was coming.

don't take the bait, folks. Let the wingnuts believe what they want.

don't argue with them, just point them to DeLay's speech (and every fucking thing they've done these past two weeks.)

[stranger81]

35. exactly

whether it's a fake or not is irrelevant -- the right will be trotting out the CBS memo to cast "fear, uncertainty and doubt" on any document that embarasses conservatives henceforth even if they all know it's perfectly authentic.

[Rose Siding]

29. Then they should be thrilled that Lautengerg wants the origin investigated

[DS1]

30. Fuck bloggers

I HATE it when the media sources them.

[daleo]

32. Backpedaling like crazy

Bush didn't want to sign the bill.
Memo wasn't written by them.

Next they will claim Delay's dad is still alive.

On Edit - And living with Elvis.

[EBK]

33. "Democrats and reporters "tend to be liberals"

...And there is something wrong with Democracy and Liberty ??

[Kimber Scott]

34. I saw a Republican Senator on TV who said, "Well, we have this memo..."

He was a dissenting Republican, but I can't remember his name. He gave this answer to the question of, "Do you think this is all about politics?"

[Kingofalldems]

37. The whole gist of the article:

Some people say they are fake. Faux news by Howie Kurtz.

[Contrary1]

38. I am wondering what difference it makes to any Repubs.

The last 3+ years have proved many times over that the Shrubbies will buy into whatever this administration spoonfeeds them. If their own revered leaders are responsible for the memo, then it must be for the greater good of all, right? Why should they even bother denying it?

Who do they believe they will actually convert with this nonsense? Certainly not anyone with common sense. They are preaching to their own choir. All they are trying to do is stir up more hate for the Liberals.

[EBK]

39. "Who do they believe they will actually convert with this nonsense? "

"Who do they believe they will actually convert with this nonsense? Certainly not anyone with common sense."


Isn`t that how he *supposedly* got elected?

[wellst0nev0ter]

40. "Shape of the Earth, Doubts Raised"

*laughs in general direction of rotting media corpse that is Howie Kurts*

On edit:

anyways, if Kurtz did some actual. . .um. . .the thing where you gather facts, corroborate them and tell them to the public. . .whatever its called, it's been so long -- he would have long confirmed how political the Schiavo deal was by listening to Bugspray Delay himself

[Lab2112]

41. RE: Doubts Raised On Schiavo Memo (is the Repug Talking Points fake?)

Remember, the Jedi mind trick works on the weak-minded.

(Darth Barnes, waving his hand in front of Weekly Standard readers)
"There is no Republican memo on Terri Schiavo."

Little wonder right-wingers so easily fall for any attempt to rewrite history.

LAB

[creeksneakers2]

42. The new sleaze tactic is disguising RW propaganda as blog

traffic. I monitor RW radio and the moment the memo came out the RW called it a fake. Kurtz cites The Weekly Standard and Fred Barnes, both of whom are not net originals. Powerline blog has been shown to be a terminal for RW activism, and its run by regular members of the vast right wing conspiracy. Of course, if Kurtz said this was all coming from the vast RW conspiracy, he wouldn't have a story.

There is no doubt what the GOP was political. If there was any valid policy reason for intervening in family death decisions, why didn't they pass a law that applies to everybody?

If Kurtz has any decency, he'll chronicle the hundred or so lies the RW media has told about the Schiavo case.

[bunny planet]

43. Could it be the Pillsbury Roveboy has struck again.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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