Is he Johnny Gosch? (DU mentioned in article)

[Freddie Stubbs]

By ERIN CRAWFORD
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
April 5, 2005

Johnny Gosch may finally have been found, thanks to Rush Limbaugh.

The Iowa paperboy was kidnapped in 1982, with unsubstantiated stories emerging later from his mother that he was abducted into a child pedophilia ring. No trace of him has ever been found, and no suspects have been arrested.

Nearly 23 years later, White House correspondent Jeff Gannon, who wrote for a conservative Web site, was exposed in February as James D. Guckert, a man with no journalism experience and links to several gay escort addresses online.

If you have the time to read a few hundred Web postings, you will see how Johnny Gosch and Jeff Gannon, two completely unrelated individuals, became the same person on the Web. The way the theory developed says much about the anything-goes nature of the blogosphere and self-proclaimed reporters on the Internet, who seem to find accuracy and proof a nuisance in uncovering fantastical conspiracies.

<snip>

The Gannon-Gosch conspiracy theory first appeared on the message board of a liberal political site called The Democratic Underground on Feb. 26. A site regular, using the name TwoSparkles, speculated that Jeff Gannon was victimized by a government-organized child pornography ring.

more: http://edit.desmoinesregister.gannettonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?NoCache=1&Dato=20050405&Kategori=LIFE04&Lopenr=504050376&Ref=AR

[sniffa]

1. wonderfuL

fuck them!

why don't they run a piece on my conspiracy that dubya Lost the abiLity to achieve an erection years ago?

[AuntiBush]

143. LOLOL! Good one! Excellent Retort, Sniffa!

:rofl:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. When did Pigboy...

Become a DU'er? What's his screen name?

[asthmaticeog]

51. I heard his username was "Tandalayo" something-or-other..

KIDDING, KIDDING, I just couldn't resist.

*ducks thrown objects*

[Roland99]

75. Anyone up here registered as AnalCyst?

[jdj]

106. or Hillbilly Hero (in)

[SpaceBuddy008]

121. Holy.'man behind the curtain' your images jumped off the page...

us KuCitiZens FOUND yr. KerryPict and here is what wonked!

whaen the battle is for Higher ground WE got them bYE thIer SElvEvrS,we got them by they souls

AaaahhhUuuhhhh!

HOLy 'camradrie'

when BigMedia is EXposed cheaper to 'book' the Net
more later

defense SPenDing
I-Bomb-A-nation
A-Bomb-I-Nation

KloFF ot Her Po sTs
that mEans HI !

thanK You, POSTEWR OFG COMRADRIE IANdb1, YOU ARE kLOFF

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. Lovely.

Thanks, guys.

[CoffeeCat]

4. Crikey!

My husband is absolutely furious with me over this.

[lateo]

5. Why?

[CoffeeCat]

9. Why? Because he thought the speculation about the Gosch/Gannon...

...connection was ridiculous and irresponsible.

Now, that he sees my screen name mentioned as a propagator of the theory--in our local paper--he's not happy.

He'll get over it.

[meganmonkey]

12. Maybe also because it implies that your husband is married to

a man? :shrug:

:P

[lateo]

24. Speculation can lead to discovery...

It is silly not to speculate on thing...regardless on how ridiculous the speculation may sound.

[Athame]

28. First they ignore you, then they ridicule you...

Two Sparkles, this story, showing up in your local paper, lends more credence to the possibilities of Gannon/Gosch connection, not less. Why is this extensive story published there? It does nothing at all to disprove the link, it adds no new or verifiable information, only ridicule. To me that's a clue that the investigation and the "theories" were getting too hot. The FBI agent and the NYC investigator confirm the possibilities of identity and "whole life construction." Noreen Gosch calls the theory bizarre, according to the author of the story (without quotes) but she never refutes it. The article does not publish the picture progressions, they wouldn't dare do that! There is no proof at all that Gannon is Guckert, and the article carefully says that "a James Guckert graduated from..." very much like Gannon said in the interview on CNN-- when asked if he was indeed James Guckert, he said, "That's the name on my driver's license." This whole article reminds me of the tactic of the Swift Boat Vets, smear the messenger, raise doubts, but don't prove the theory wrong. The end line in the article referring to Operation Mockingbird is also interesting. Mocking. Hiding in plain site. It is what they do best.

That said, I don't think the blogosphere has absolute proof of anything, but the investigation is still legitimate. As in any brainstorming session, the group brings up all kinds of ideas without prejudice and maybe a connection for one builds on another. It is a very good way to break through rigid thinking, to look at a puzzle from different angles. And the Gannon/Guckert/Gosch story is still very much a puzzle. I, for one of many, am grateful to you for putting your thoughts out here on DU and for all of the incredible efforts of the posters on DU and elsewhere.

[Laurab]

59. You're right, and really it's not very much ridicule

It seems they're both ridiculing AND leaving open the possibility that it is possible. As does Gosch's mother. On one hand, it's "bizarre", but on the other hand she doesn't know. To me it seems like a very strange article, really.

[Dookus]

62. "First they ignore you

then they ridicule you"'

This is some sort of aphorism meant to convey the idea that all silly ideas are eventually proven correct. They are not. The vast majority of the time when they ignore and you and ridicule you, it's for good reason.

This is such a case.

[zann725]

145. We quit talking about the Gannon/Gosch connection about a month ago.

We were letting it drop. Why would they feel the need to refute it now? If it wasn't true, they could've just let it drop. Why?

What are they hiding?

[zann725]

144. I actually like most of your posts! Now you're INFAMOUS!

That's not such a bad thing at times...

[elehhhhna]

17. Uh oh! 2SPARK's: Are you Rush Limbaugh ?

My hubs would be annoyed, too.

[CoffeeCat]

23. I can definitely say I'm not Rush Limbaugh! LOL (nt)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

6. Well, it's not like they used your real name.

Anonymity is your friend. :)

[Up2Late]

43. WHHHHHOOOO HOOOOO!!!!

Way to go!:woohoo: :applause:

Now is this good or bad that Rush "the big fat Idiot" is talking about this?

[burn the bush]

101. why is he talking about it now? no one has even mentioned it here lately

have they? Why would they bring this up now?

[Megahurtz]

52. Jeez, TwoSparkles!

Thank God for usernames, pretty soon you may be interviewed on 20/20 or have a spot on the Tonite Show!:7 Ha!

It's interesting to see how they have been reading pretty deep into some of the stuff we post...........Wow!:wow: News travels fast!!!

Anyway, Hubby should lighten up :dilemma:(he'll get over it)

You have to admit it's kinda funny anyway!;)

[burn the bush]

100. don't let it bother you. this is a message board not a blog

you were supposing not newscasting. You are allowed to discuss what you want.

[republicansareevil]

7. yawn. who cares?

Didn't even read the link. How many thousands of posts does DU have per day? Anyone can cherry-pick the ones that sound crazy or take things out of context to make a reasonable post SEEM crazy. Why even give this article any attention?

[DS1]

34. Maybe it was "GANNONGATE THREAD #54 UDPATE"

It went on far too long, it was so ridiculous I was suprised to read that Gannon hadn't spend a week camping up my ass :eyes:

[Freddie Stubbs]

70. There were more than a few posts about the Gannon-Gosch connection

http://www.google.com/search?q=Gosch++site:democraticunderground.com&num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&as_qdr=all&filter=0

But the point was that it all started at DU.

[meganmonkey]

8. Holy sh*t!

LOL

My favorite part is that it is in the 'Recreation' section!

[wtbymark]

10. The other side will only try to discredit DU

so fanciful conspiricy posts will be pointed out as a general concensus so we all may be labeled paranoid lunatics. The DU needs some good press.

[Krupskaya]

11. Nice, uh, "journalism," too.

I'll be glad when newspapers are done with the whole "people say KA-RAZY things on the Internets!" story. It's getting old.

[Auntie Bush]

16. DU doesn't make the papers or TV when they discover the truth...

only when they make an error. Typical!

[BurtWorm]

35. Maybe DUers should spend more time obsessing about the truth

than about freeper Johnny.

[slaveplanet]

37. There was no error

in this instance, only group speculation, fueled by disappearing webpages and search engine caches, shadowy right wing operative connections, Gosch's own mother, and investigators working on that case for the last twenty years. Any one worth a pebble knows that A DU member was also the first to post the Conneaut Lake HS photo's on the web, and even met a Vanity Fair writer there who was doing the exact same thing. Guess who was getting paid. How dare this DesMoine hack make hay out of a job she should be doing. Why was Gannon even allowed to be within knife throwing distance of the POTUS?
We still haven't gotten our answer...

[acmejack]

48. The paper news medium is analogous to LPs

On edit: This was supposed to be a reply to Post 7!

It is rapidly losing readership. I only read the letters to the editor, obits, and the local news. The internet is the cause.

[Nickster]

13. Geez

This guy spent all this time and energy mocking a theory that in the beginning of his article says this:

"Gosch's mother, Noreen Gosch, called the theory "quite bizarre," but not impossible.

"We don't have anything conclusive," she said."

So yeah, maybe it's out there, but we don't really know for sure. He doesn't waste any of his prescious time to find out any details about Gannon/Gueckert that would conclusively put any of these theories to shame. He just uses ridicule?

Why the heck doesn't he put on his big boy media hat and figure out who Gannon/Gueckert is rather than printing out someone's theory on DU and wasting his time mocking it? So what if it's out there, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Anything is possible. I don't think Gannon is Gosch, but who knows?

[Krupskaya]

15. She.

NT

[Carolab]

147. DNA would resolve it once and for all.

What's say, Noreen? Jeff/James?

[Kota]

14. They left out the male prostitute and sex sites Gannon/Guckert

is connected with.

[Auntie Bush]

19. I noticed that too. Dwelled more on where it went wrong and

ignored all the correct findings...as well as the salacious.

[foreigncorrespondent]

18. ROFLMAO!

"The Democratic Underground." Since when did DU begin using "the" in front of the site name?

Cripes, can't they get it right?

On edit: Just got home from work, and I am tired, so I made a few typos, which needed fixing.

[progressoid]

93. Ha ha - - The DU; The kids; The little woman - - that's how we talk in IA

:sarcasm:

[Catchawave]

20. The FBI agent quoted in the article made an interesting

comment about what the CIA is capable of doing.

I didn't think it was a "bad" article, just another journalist trying to hang on to his job by discrediting bloggers.

I agree, why are these "journalists" looking for the real stories, like the Gannon-White House connection?

Shouldn't Jeffy had a complete FBI background check for his Hard Pass? That alone would have laid all these conspiracy rants by the MSM to rest.

I think the editor of that paper should be notified about flaky junk journalism being more harmful than anonymous bloggers! So the CIA-MSM connection noted at the end of the article really doesn't sound that bizzarro...:sarcasm:

[peacetalksforall]

21. So what's his agenda? I'd say it's more about defending Gannon, less

about DU. Bashing DU is just frosting.

It would be different if the mother of John Gosch had bashed the theory and condemned DU.

The big thing here is that Limbaugh is trying to defend and deflect. Defend Gannon. Deflect a male porn connection theory by attacking people who discussed it.

The inference is that the theory is irresponsible - which is a roly-poly stomach laugh coming from him.

The bottom line is that he wrote to protect Gannon.

[fooj]

25. Bingo!

Peace!

[Ian David]

57. Jeff Gannon = MSM (Male Seeking Male) Reporter

I think we should use that pun once in a while when speaking to the "other MSM" (Main-Stream-Media).

[Ilsa]

84. Funniest pics I've seen all year!

Thanks for all of those. Made my day.

[libodem]

102. very, very funny pics

:rofl:

[hiley]

114. exactly, Higher class

:hippie: It would be different if the mother of John Gosch had bashed the theory and condemned DU.

The big thing here is that Limbaugh is trying to defend and deflect. Defend Gannon.

[truthisfreedom]

22. *yawn*

who cares. right, USA?

[rooboy]

26. Surfing the blogs - the source of stories for non-journalists. n/t

[leftchick]

32. well said rooboy....

lazy assholes.

[HamdenRice]

27. This is terrible for the real story ...

because it picks up on all the allegations that basically have been proven to be groundless.

Yet there are several big stories, which the MSM is assiduously trying to avoid reporting -- from the basic problem that a gay prostitute had been ushered into the WH press corps by a group of highly placed republican operatives, its connection to the bigger picture of purchased columnists and govt-paid-for-propoganda fake news segments, to the perfectly documented connections between Guckert/Gannon and Aziz al-taee of Nick Berg and faked Iraqi intel scandals.

This is just an excuse for the MSM to NOT deal with the issue.

The Gannon wrinkles conspiracy theories, from Hunter Thompson to Gosch to aliens to mind control have done real damage to the real story.

<edited>

[merh]

33. HamdenRice, please note that Noreen Gosch did not discount

the possibilities or deny that jg is Johnnie.

Your view as to what is the real story is your view. Don't discount others who have different views or may consider this a part of the real story.

If it was a non-story and just to ridicule the speculation and the speculators, why the heck was it published in the first place.

I have seen no articles about the poppy connection to JFK's assasination published or about the "murder" of Pope Paul in 1978, which would be appropriate for posting today, given the pope-mania. I have seen nothing ridiculing the 9/11 conspiracy theories or MIHOP or LIHOP.

Again, your theories are wonderful, I believe you are on to something as you continue to investigate bulldog, but your angle is not the only angle or the only "real story".

[Catherine Vincent]

95. I agree, as usual Merh.

:thumbsup:

[merh]

113. Thanks for the thumbsup!

;-)

[DARE to HOPE]

29. Do you think this is an attempt to contain this explosive story?

After all, one detail left out was the name of the editor of the DesMoines Register when Johnny Gosch was first kidnapped. Wasn't it James Gannon?

The finger has been pointed rather pointedly at them. And they had to write something.

And even though she rather mocked it, she still did mention Operation Mockingbird.

[NVMojo]

50. I could go with that explanation ...it makes more sense.

Besides, I find it very interesting that the mom did not condemn the story.

Victims of childhood sexual abuse often go into prostitution, stripping or become sexually promiscuious, a psycologist once told me that it becomes a way of controlling the abuser from their past by controlling men (if they were the perps) as adults and gaining back lost power from when they were abused as a child ...there is some interesting probability to all of this.

[peacetalksforall]

99. Unbelievable! The Editor's name was James Gannon? I haven't been

following Guckert/Gannon closely - that went over my head.

Let me ask...the FBI creates new identities for people at risk who cooperate with the government. If the govt insiders arrange a new life for Guckert/Gannon....would they have him married and converted from homosexuality? Don't fundulls claim that they can convert someone from homor to hetereo?. Is he convertible? He also seems to need brain washing to learn discretion and forget his military, excort, and 'journalism' careers.....and now, possibly his Franklin background.

The drama, innuendo, intrigue, arrogance - could not have been created in fiction...it is beyond fiction.

[Bo]

30. There no such thing as bad press....

wtg 2spark.....your nation wide!!!!!lololololololol...and with good company.

[Straight Shooter]

31. Accuracy and proof a nuisance? Don't confuse us with the * administration

"The way the theory developed says much about the anything-goes nature of the blogosphere and self-proclaimed reporters on the Internet, who seem to find accuracy and proof a nuisance in uncovering fantastical conspiracies."

Well, heaven forbid that accuracy and proof raise their ugly little heads in the rush to war against Iraq.

I do not think, never did, that Jiffy-Lube Jeff is/was Gosch. However, I would encourage Mr. or Ms. Erin Crawford that his/her time would be better spent discovering precisely who this shadow-bound imposter is, rather than throwing stones at those who attempt to make an honest effort to uncover his real identity. There are still many questions out there.

[Walt Starr]

36. Yep, the really whacked out conspiracy theories on DU is all they'll

ever report.

Expect some "chem trail" threads to get mention some time, too.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[merh]

39. Because it is part of their conspiracy to make DU and the blogs

appear to be kooks and conspiracy theorists! :tinfoilhat: :sarcasm:


Actually, I think that is a wonderful question, I don't have an answer. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NVMojo]

54. Tribal150, welcome to DU and that is one helluva great idea!!

Let him deny it!! Cuz if it is not true and it has caused him financial harm he can sue for libel damages!!! And I've been wondering why he hasn't. Now it's in the print media. Let's see what he does. I want DNA!! HAAHAA!!!

[fooj]

64. Yes, indeed. One would think he would have done it long ago...

quite a reasonable way to stop any further speculation. Welcome to DU, Tribal150! Nice save!

Hello, Mojo! Always nice to run into you on the threads...

Peace!

[NVMojo]

94. Hey, fooj! Good running into you too, especially here!

Ain't it just a tad bit fun!

Peace back at you, my friend!

[Minstrel Boy]

40. Wouldn't that have been a good story?

Des Moines Register, are you reading this?

[bin.dare]

66. kudos to RI ...

...
"Though the photos' perspectives differ, and it's proof of nothing, the alignment of features is striking," wrote blogger Jeff Wells on Rigorous Intuition (rigorousintution. blogspot.com).

hey, this DM Register article is not dissing the G/G/G theory --- there are many such balanced statements as above in it. Also it gives full citation to RI allowing interested people to be more informed. Why? Something curious is definately afoot. Of course, she also has

"Have you ever heard of Operation Mockingbird?" he asked.
It's another theory. It argues that the press is being controlled by the CIA.

[Old and In the Way]

69. I wonder too.

Perhaps the MSM is just too afraid to dive right in and risk being right or wrong. Wrong could get you ridiculed....right could get you killed.

Maybe they need the blogosphere to ask and develop the politically/socially controversial stories to provide the cover for bringing the story above ground. This article doesn't really answer anything....but it will make more people curious enough to start reading up on the subject.

[bin.dare]

72. stories abound about how in the former soviet union ...

... articles would be printed in the press this way (ostensibly dissing a subject) but everyone learned to read between the lines so that you actually had quite a well informed population. and there was nothing the politburo could do!!

is that where america is going?

[The Magistrate]

42. Why On Earth Should She, Ma'am?

Why should anyone pay the least attention to this sort of folly?

[Beam Me Up]

44. You think this story is "folly" sir?

You think all of us who want to know who "Gannon" is are FOOLS, SIR??

[The Magistrate]

45. The Idea, Sir, That Guckert is Gosch

Is indeed folly, and of the most absurd and entertaining sort; it is no wonder a journalist with a local angle plucked this thing up for a humorous piece.

The actual background of Guckert does offer some interesting possibilities for enquiry, most particularly the questions of how he came into ciontact with the Talon operation, and whether of not that involved his "top-man" services for some client. My suspicion is that the answer to the latter is yes....

[izzybeans]

49. I'm with you on this one. I've watched this "developing story" with morbid

fascination as it grew here on DU. But mostly I watched with a an eye for worry about what might occur if this story got cherrypicked by a large news outlet in the same manner. It was good for laughs and sometimes the occassional murmer but that was it.

I really hope this does not come back to bite anyone here.

[flyarm]

136. you might want to listen to noreen gosch!

listen here...

http://johnnygosch.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=browse&id=5267&pageid=53

mrs gosch says if this is johnny its a big story, if it is not it is still a big story!


she sent private dectectives for a dna test gannon would not comply , mrs gosch called gannon as well..he would not discuss it with her..she said she wants answers and she wants a dna test...

of gannon,,,and she said the blogger did a good job!

fly

[WoodrowFan]

47. um, because it's a dumb idea??

Since they're 12 years apart in age, and its known what Pennsylvania schools he went to, and we have his school photos, why should Guckert's Mom bother? To quiet some really, really silly "theories?"

(edited to change 14 to 12) It's a plot! It's a plot!

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WoodrowFan]

58. they did find people who knew him

as well as school photos and records. And Guckert joined a fraternity int he id 1970s, when Gosch would have been about 9 years old! KOS has a good timeline.


Sorry, the only thing "weird" here is that this tinfoil tale hasn't been laughed back into the closet with "faked moon landings" and "the hollow earth"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/28/82111/6781

[Just Me]

56. Was Gannon/Guckert an orphan? Who raised him?

If he was orphaned, how/why did it happen? If he isn't an orphan, who/where are his parents?

My interest has been tickled, now.

[Ian David]

60. It may be silly, but wouldn't a REAL biography of Guckert be interesting?

And wouldn't it make the kidnapped-Guckert theory more discredited (and the conspiracy bloggers more silly) if they presented a point-by-point refutation?

There are magazines like Skeptical Inquirer and Skeptic Magazine that spend hundreds of pages a year discrediting much sillier things-- creationism, Holocaust Revisionism, ghost stories, The Bermuda Triangle, Bigfoot, psychics and UFO's-- yet nobody has bothered to offer a comprehensive refutation.

I am not saying the theory is correct or even likely.

I am not even saying it isn't silly.

If journalists can be bothered to spend countless man-hours debunking such incredibly silly things, then why not the theory that Guckert was a kidnapped paperboy? At least that theory does not require magic or divine intervention, which has to make it at least less silly than Creationism or ESP.

I'm just saying that:

1) The MSM is being lazy (again).
2) A comprehensive refutation of this theory (even if it's a silly theory) would be interesting. Inquiring minds want to know: Who Is James Guckert?

I want to see yearbook photos, interviews with old classmates, his Presidential Physical Fitness Certificate from 6th grade, interviews with his mom and old neighbors and school teachers and athletic coaches. I want to hear from the minister who presided over his Confirmation or the Rabbi that Bar Mitzvahed him. I want to see all these people sit down in front of Barbara Walters or at the very least Jimmy Kimmel.

Not because I think there is necessarily something to the theory, but because THAT would be GOOD (REAL) journalism.

That would be much more interesting than "Silly bloggers on the internets think James Guckert was kidnapped as a child." It would be much better to tell us all who James Guckert REALLY is.

But that would require MSM "journalists" tearing themselves away from their desks and doing more than simply rehashing the latest press releases that arrive in their email.

Below: Where James Guckert REALLY came from (artist's conception):

[WoodrowFan]

61. it's a little early

the "theory" is a little new for the Skeptical Inquirer and such. But here's the KOS link for what's known so far.

Besides, there's enough known already (such as the 12 year age difference) to make it clear the "theory" has no basis, but that hasn't stopped the tin foil brigade!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/28/82111/6781

[slaveplanet]

65. that last line

//.. January 26, 2005

Fast forward through hundreds of day passes and scores of partisan "Gannon" queries to the fateful day of the infamous question. You know, the one where he strafes the Democratic leadership and President Bush succumbs to a snicker. First, a long preamble, jumbled in with a made-up stolen quote from Rush Limbaugh, and then the final, jarring phrase that brought a firestorm of scrutiny down upon him, his "news" agency and White House vetting standards:

"Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak picture of the U.S. economy. Harry Reid was talking about soup lines, and Hillary Clinton was talking about the economy being on the verge of collapse. Yet, in the same breath, they say that Social Security is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to work -- you said you're going to reach out to these people -- how are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?"

Mr. "Gannon," take a deep breath. You're about to get "googled." //

....is precious

I mean can you really blame people for searching every crevice...It's a CT'ers dream...

and by no means is DU the only guilty party

even if the Gosch angle is poppycock... think of all those scandals that got rehashed in the process, and introduced to a whole new younger generation.

It's more valuable than any MSM hack piece....

[Ian David]

80. How likely is it that Guckert is a DIFFERENT missing child?

Run-away kids very often become mixed-up in child pornography, prostitution or worse-- Republican politics.

How surprised would we be to find out that Guckert is indeed a missing child-- just not the particular child in the conspiracy theory?

How much of a past do we really know he has?


Artist's renderig of James Guckert as a child

[WoodrowFan]

83. not too likely

as KOS has pretty much nailed down his past. At least enough to rule out "missing child" porn rings.

[Ian David]

86. I'm still hoping for Extra-Terrestrial Visitor or Cyborg From The Future

[WoodrowFan]

88. I'm putting my money on

genetic experiment gone horribly wrong. :)

[Ian David]

90. Perhaps another illegitimate child of Strom Thurmond?

[Bethany Rockafella]

119. How much is KOS paying you?

[Magrittes Pipe]

46. My question isn't why they singled out DU....

It's why they ever bothered to report upon such ludicrous foolishness at all.

[mzmolly]

55. They still haven't proven this theory incorrect.

The story states that Gannon's mother "isn't convinced either way."

Neither am I.

[Dookus]

63. I think when they

showed the 12 year age difference, that pretty much disproved it.

[merh]

67. It has yet to be disproved or denied.

How odd - someone get gannon's water glass on April 8.

[mzmolly]

71. Ah, so Guckert/Gannon is HONEST about his age, but not his credentials

profession, or much else.

It has been surmised that when one is in "hidden protection programs" and the like, age is often changed along with the name.

But, I'm certainly not gonna carry the "Gannon = Guckert" banner myself.

[Dookus]

76. It would appear so

given the appearance of his high school yearbook, which clearly places him 12 years older than Gosch.

[mzmolly]

85. I haven't seen the pic.

Can you provide the link. Unless you're talking about that wimpy kid who played soccer and looked nothing like Gannon/Guckert .. Gosch.

[Old and In the Way]

89. I can't tell you the thread #...maybe 12 or 13?

There were a bunch of HS pics....the Guckert in the golf team photo's don't look like the same guy. The HS pics could be a young Guckert with hair. But that morph of Gosch sure was compelling, too.

[flyarm]

137. please do listen to noreens interview yesterday!

http://johnnygosch.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=browse&id=5267&pageid=53

and if this whole thing haqs come to nothing ..the franklin story was real why did the newspaper ignore that??

and if this did nothing but educate americans to the pedophelia ring that existed, under the * and reagan admin and then we have a prostitute sitting within feet of the president..why are they no0t asking questions that we all asked..why is this subject being shut up?? i have questions for people who are so willing to try to shut up the questions about gannon..i have serious questions of people who are not inquiring why was gannon so close to our president after 9/11??

me thinks some protest too much!~!

fly

[Old and In the Way]

68. I read most of the wrinkle threads.

How is this different than a bunch of people sitting around and speculating about the content of Cheney's Energy policy meetings? The only difference is that the discussion is handled via written word rather than verbal.

I was intrigued when I saw the morphing pictures....certainly enough to continue reading the threads until the HS pics were posted. Because we allow ourselves to ask questions....that's a bad thing? For those that ridicule CT posters here....please share your thoughts about the Franklin Savings scandal and how that 1989 story went from 30 point page 1 Washington Times expose to nada in one day....nothing there either, right?

Anyway, I, too, would like to see what other facts are still to be unearthed about Mr. Gannon/Guckert. Why no personal history after HS? I still think his prostitution website had other purposes other than to provide Jimmy-Jeff supplemental income from his day job as an administration call boy.

[lies and propaganda]

73. What in THE fuck!!!!

So because this son of a bitch TALKED about something, he figured it all out? This is atrocious.
The Des Moines register can seriously kiss my ass. I truly got the feel from this article they were just trying to discredit bloggers. A whole article based on bloggers findings and then Skolnick gets brought into it... Why no AmericaBlog? Why none of the actual sites that Gannon owned? No Franklin Credit mentions.

i am so angry over this.

[EFerrari]

77. Easy does it.

I was stifling-myself-Edith, but maybe this will help.

I wrote to the reporter and copied the editor,

- pointing out lapses in the MSM reporting on Mr. Gannon's credentials, up to and including this piece.

- pointing out that the discussion at DU made no claims

- asking why it was more in the "public interest" to discredit the internet than to present the facts of Mr. Gannon's story?

and

if you'd like to talk about this, pm me. It would be nice to give everyone a break from Gannon/Shiavo/Pope before the next fire gets lit. The opposition specializes in setting multiple fires, don't they?

peace,
Beth

[Fleshdancer]

74. who here read the ENTIRE article???

First of all, what does Limbaugh have to do with anything? The article didn't spell out his role in all of this.

The first half of the article mocks the theory but then the second half gives many reasons why it could be possible. I finished it not really knowing what to think.

I never really read much of the Gannon wrinkle threads so I admit I don't know much of what has already been discussed on DU, but after reading this article, I'm blown away at the idea of a pedophile ring in DC for the "upper echelons". WTF? Maybe Gannon is Gosch, maybe not, but one thing I do know...this article legitimized the pedophile ring.

[NVMojo]

91. ...and we all know that pedophile rings do exist.

At one time, in a small western town I know of, the Sheriff's office was watching a group of upper echelon local citizens who were getting lots of mail from Thailand and countries like that a taking trips there in groups. It was later discovered to be a pedophile ring that focused on men preying on little boys overseas in poor third world countries. Truly sick bastards.

[Catherine Vincent]

98. Probably to get the Rush fans interested in the story.

Dittoheads are in the thousands.

[Zerex71]

78. He's not too creative, is he? All the aliases are JG...

[KaliTracy]

81. hmmm gannon gosche guckert ---- g g g upside down

is 666

is it not?






*ducking*
just had to do it...

[earth mom]

79. What an odd article...

Why do a story on Gannon/Gosch just to discredit DU and bloggers? It's like they wanted the info out there for the world to see, but at the same time were washing their hands of it!

It will be interesting seeing what develops from this ....

[bin.dare]

82. my feeling too, but who is this "jeff" ? ...

... there is a blogger in Iowa called "jeff" on a site called "Tusk and Talon". he has all the RW talking points down perfectly. He has on a few occasions dissed Erin Crawford. We know JG has Iowa contacts, is this it?

[roseBudd]

87. In any crime the most likely explanation is the simplest, Gosch is

most likely raped, killed and buried.

[slaveplanet]

107. Nice theory

only 2 flaws in it ...the killed and buried part.

you see If you had bothered to follow the wrinkles threads , then you'd know we have court testimony ,under oath . that Noreen , had a visit from her son in the late 90's.....

So if your post is an attempt to mock the people who spent a lot of time trying to sort this all out, as loony CT'ers

maybe your energy would be best directed at mocking your own brand of CT...

[roseBudd]

110. someone claiming to be Gosch visited Noreen according to Noreen

I don't assume that to be true without corroborating evidence.

[slaveplanet]

111. yet, you are quick

to assume he is killed and buried without any evidence of that being the case.

and your basis is .. that some stranger had plastic surgery so he could duplicate Jonny Gosch's birthmarks for one clandestined late night visit with Noreen Gosch in attempts to get her to back off...:tinfoilhat:

[roseBudd]

112. Raped, killed and buried or dumped is the predominant MO for

kidnapped children who are abducted by strangers.

I don't assume anyone had plastic surgery to fool Noreen because I don't presume that the claim of the visit is true. Like the Schiavo's, Noreen has a lot of motification to fabricate claims.

Whatever Gannon is NOT in his 30's.

[slaveplanet]

116. How do you figure

is motification supposed to be motivation? If that's your theory , you may want to know this, She didn't disclose that information freely. She only gave that testimony ,against her wishes, against her sons wishes when asked UNDER OATH if she had ever been visited by her son, John Gosch, since the kidnapping had taken place. She was bound to disclosure under threat of perjury.

Noreen Gosch is not the criminal here, she is the victim.

She has only reported futher on the visit, once the cat was already out of the bag....If you have evidence of her criminal perjury, Now would be a good time to produce that.

[Catherine Vincent]

92. I don't know what to say about this...

[flyarm]

126. i don't know what to say either other than...

seems to me we may have gotten closer than others are comfortable with and they want to neuter the speculation!
after all thats what we were doing... is speculating with alot of facts and alot of inferance..but one thing is for sure..we were doing alot more than this newspaper or any msm in this country was in trying to figure out who the heck gannon is! and for that the msm should hang their heads in shame! they are dispicable that they have let the ball drop...same as all the media who lied and carried forth the "it must be dems" on the talking points of the teri shiavo story...yes it was talking points..and helloooo rush, hellooo o'liely, and hello washington post, and helloooo ny times...if you had investigated you would not have said it was a set up by dems , and you would not have lied to the american people..you ass sucks..it was mel martinez's office ..his legal guy..you filthy lazy asses..so if you media did your damn jobs we wouldnt be speculating!!

we would already know the truth..but truth is the furthest thing from your little so called journaliatic minds isn't it rush and msm??

wow those pukes make me puke!!

i think everyone who was on the wrinkles to begin with were doing what the media should have been doing ..and i am darn proud of everyone who did all the research..thats how you get to the truth..by looking under every rock...our media used to do that ..now they just give monica jobs to *!!

fly

[kerry-is-my-prez]

96. Remember the saying "There's no such thing as bad publicity?"

Or "Just make sure to spell my name right?" I think that DU being mentioned is a good thing and can only serve to draw more people here.

It would either cause the people who are NOT familiar with DU to come here out of curiousity. The people who are familiar with DU are either dead set against it or dead set for it.

[RAF]

97. It's a hit piece

Mind you, I don't buy the Gannon/Guckert/Gosch story but this write up did it's best to put all liberal bloggers under an umbrella of conspiracy nuts.

Am I the only one who finds it more than a coincidence that Gannon/Guckert will also be the feature attraction of the National Press Club this week, April 8th?

For months we hardly hear a word about Gannon/Guckert from any corporate media and in a span of a few days he's covered in detail by two fairly prominent media outlets.

This has a stench of Rove behind it as if to sidetrack people off the true story behind Gannon/Guckert by discrediting all bloggers as tinfoil hat wearers. Sounds very similar to the Tang Document scandal (CBS/Bush AWOL)...imo.

[flyarm]

127. well if there are still americans who haven't figured out the rove m.o.

than they don't deserve to live in this country or have the things we are so accustomed to like..freedom and bill of rights and a constitution, they then are too damn ignorant to reside in this country..and share those freedoms!

fly

p.s. maybe thats too strong but that is how i am feeling anymore..people pay no attention until it bites them in the rear..well thats not being a good american..thats a lazy person who no longer deserves for us to care about them!

[BlueIris]

103. I wish people would just give this up.

Even I don't believe the "Johnny Gosh" issue is worth pursuing--for any reason related to Gannon/Guckert, C.I.A. mind-control conspiracies, or any other Bush-related investigation.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BamaBecky]

105. My response to the De Moines fish wrapper

Is he Johnny Gosch?

I became very angry as I read your article. You want to get credit for writing this "puff piece", while you make fun of those investigating the story? So you think it's funny that this story is being investigated? Did you laugh out loud, while speaking with Mrs. Gosch? How very noble of you!

[many a good man]

108. Reporting for duty

"...self-proclaimed reporters on the Internet, who seem to find accuracy and proof a nuisance in uncovering fantastical conspiracies."


A nuisance? I think the people here revel in the search for proof. We raise questions, search for proof, and sort it all out. This reporter has it completely backwards.

Aren't journalists the ones who are supposed to be researching this stuff, not ordinary citizens???

We report, you decide.

[Moosepoop]

109. Lining up right behind you

and reporting for duty as well. It's not "proof and accuracy" that people here find a nuisance, it's the MSM attempts to discredit the pursuit of said goals before they can be attained that we find a nuisance.

[flyarm]

128. you bet your bippy!! thats what

journalists are supposd to do..but see we on the internet are scaring the crap out of them..because we are doing a better job than they are and we are making them insignificant..they are worthless fish wrap!!

they are crap now..we dont need them..and they know it and we scare the crap out of all of them!!

fly

[Bethany Rockafella]

115. What does Rush Limbaugh have to do with this?

Very strange.

[hiley]

117. strange indeed

Limbaugh trying to protect Jeff Gannon.
Says alot.

[bin.dare]

120. it seems Lush brought Gannon to the fore by commending him ...

... for his WH reporting.

[SpaceBuddy008]

118. Who is his Benefactor(s)? is he a SS agent of some sort ?

speculation from one of the 'wrinkle' threads that he is an expert covert 'penetration' agent, schooled in the spook art of blackmail.

is it possible there is campaign to create these 'manchurian' slaves

extreme loyalty overides the moral, ethical 'conscience' when it comes to doing bad things

Peter Dale Scott, war pentagon researcher, says the security establishment went bad when we took the 'gloves off' and sunk to the level and tactics of 'enemies' to win 'the game'

I think were #1 now in dastardly MaMa Mia Machevellian ism

[DemonFighterLives]

122. Here is some stuff from General Discussion

Dems. are onto the phony 2$ journalist.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3424710&mesg_id=3424710&page=

:kick:

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

133. KICK!

[flyarm]

130. that interview is noreen and she is saying this could be huge

she has contacted gannon and ssked for a dna test so this story can be stopped or verified..

she also mentions andy..and i was on wrinkles 1 when andy first contacted noreen...

and we have discussed it from the get go..

and it seems to me there are some people trying their darnest to shut this story down and out...but me thinks they protest too much!!

and either way like noreen says ..its a big story ..and noreen says the bloggers did a good job...so thats good enough for me!

i will say again..i am very proud of all those who wprked so hard on the wrinkles threads... those who took it seriously and you know who you are..you did an incredible job..its just too darned bad we have to do the job in this and 9/11 that the media refuses or intentionally ignors!! we are the new media and we are scaring the bee gee bees out of the crooks who call themselves journalists!

fly

[flyarm]

132. ohhh and let me add...

too all the so called journalists who care to read this...let this be a warning..if you are not willing to do your job as outlined in our constitution..then get out of our way..because we will not be stopped to get the truth to americans any way we can and must..it is our duty as americans..." we the people" ..we take that "we " very seriously..even if you don't!

fly

[Catherine Vincent]

141. Left on, Flyarm!

:thumbsup:

[lies and propaganda]

124. If Noreen thought he was her son.....

why would she say anything? If all of this were to found true that Gannon is Gosch, then damn near everyone involved is going to become 'depressed' and start dying. So i wouldnt say shit either.

I do believe he is, I do believe he was kidnapped by other children involved with the Franklin Credit Union (Paul Bonacci UNDER OATH,) and i do believe that our country has a truly scary underlying current.

[merh]

131. Read point blank at the link in the post above.

n/t

[flyarm]

138. HEY MERTH CAN YOU PM ME..THAT POINT BLANK

ARTICLE HAS BEEN REMOVED!!

if you kept it can you pm it to me?? thanks..or i will have you email it to me off du!! thanks!

fly

[merh]

139. Will do!

:hi:

[flyarm]

140. thanks merth!!!..and thanks others who sent it to me..!!

guess it was too hot!!

lol..fly

[merh]

148. So plenty have seen the article!

How curious :freak:

[booley]

129. ironicly this article has issues of it's own

first it assumes that Bloggers are some monololithic entity.

But anyone with a computer, time and inclination can make a blog and they often disagree with one another.

Of course sites where people can post would seem to have a 'collective truth". becuase we spend a lot of time argueing back and forth until the best arguement wins. Even on DU where we all start more or less on the same page, we argue back and forth.

That's what that market place of ideas was all about.

Which brings us point Two, it implies that everybody here came to a consensus that Gannon/Guckert was gosch. I sure as hell didn't. In fact I saw many good posts here pointing out the problems with this idea entire scenerio.
Were those posts in this guy's story? I didn't see any. Did I miss them?

Indeed, by this writer's own account, the "few hundred Web postings" only came from a few individuals, like that one guy who posted to over 80 sites.

I admit I was willing to entertain the possibility. That's a far cry from beleiving it as truth. an Open mind is not the same as gullability.

Which leads to three, that yes, anyone can post any thing they want on the internet. Just like a reporter can write any story he wants too. But that doesn't mean there aren't checking mechanisms.

For Reporters, they have to get past thier editors and then be able to back up what they say as true should readers call them on it.

Bloggers don't have editors to keep them from getting published but they too must be able to back up what they say. even more so since thier critics have just as much power to post as the blogger in many cases. and a site that is seen as uncredible will soon be ignored for others that are.

Ironicly, while Mr. Crawford is criticising blogging and DU, he ignores that the MSM hasn't exactly acquitted itself so well when it comes to fact chacking and be wary of irresponsable stories. The MSM seems to have become frequent victims of 'collective truth". If paid and trained "profesionals" are having so many lapeses, why should unpaid amateurs be under a higher standerd?

So for a guy who seems to be painting the internet as untrustworthy (and by comparison the MSM as credible), Mr. Crawford seem to make a lot of mistakes himself... he uses half truths and takes stuff out of context. he uses posts that supports his point and ignores others that don't. He paints a diverse group with a broad brush and misrepresents the forum he is talking about. (The mere fact that blogging and the MSM work in different ways and have different ways of checking themselves does not by itself make blogging untrustworthy nor the MSM credible). and he uses the rather tired conspiracy smear..as if conspiracies themselves are impossible.

Though that this kind of story would surface requires no conspiracy to account for it. The MSM doesn't like that the bloggers showed them us as the lazy and to often corrupt shills many of them are. They aren't used to competition for dispersing info, much less havign thier gate keepers sidetracked. So naturally the MSM will pounce on any mistake any blogger makes.

Which is good. it will keep bloggers honest.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Al-CIAda]

135. What about the Dem 'rebuke'?

What about the Dem 'rebuke'?
This may have to do w/more of a deflection move to keep you from taking seriously the Dem report on Rawstory.

[ngGale]

146. Deflection is the name of the game, but...

I can't figure this one out. IF they were real journalist's spending time investigating issues we need answer's to, would they be reading blogs?

But, if they are reading this thread - I've always wondered why they stop at investigating the reason G/G knew about Plame!

[AuntiBush]

142. And BIGFOOT is the Next of Kin!

Bunch of Un-Er-Mer-I-Kins! Idiots! Dim-witted, freepen idiots!

[roseBudd]

149. Jeff Gannon/Guckert IS 47 years old

[Freddie Stubbs]

150. Please stop trying to confuse people with facts

Son't you know that fall right into Rove's plans? ;)

[roseBudd]

151. You mean like the real research Susan G of Daily Kos has done?

Gannon also worked at Karnak Inc. in West Chester, PA as reported by me and verified by Susan G.

He is a 47 year old skank that lies about his age on his escort sites.