Wisc. Governor Rejects Cat Hunting

[Zynx]

He has to approve it, so I would say this is probably dead.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=3&u=/ap/20050413/ap_on_re_us/killing_wild_cats

[BrainRants]

1. I don't like cats, I'm a dog kinda' guy but...

doesn't our state legistlature HAVE ANYTHING FUCKING BETTER TO DO?

-Hating lazy Repug legislature in Wisconsin

[HereSince1628]

20. This issue was a citizen initiative at the Conservation Congress

the legislature has had nothing to do with this.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

2. I hear he was visited late last night

by a delegation of cats in a VERY bad mood. That's enough to persuade anyone.

[expatriot]

5. probably in the form of his kitties curling up at his feet... n/t

[central scrutinizer]

3. I guess Frist won't be visiting there anytime soon

nfm

[renaissanceguy]

11. As long as there are no dog-humping men there..

Santorum won't be there, either.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/507794

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Why not?

If they can't kill the cats, there will be plenty for him to pick from.

[lady lib]

4. Good. At least someone doesn't have their head up their ass.

Meow!

[slackmaster]

6. He's a Democrat who neither hunts nor owns a cat

:toast:

[queeg]

7. DAMN---I was just loading up

[saigon68]

8. Feral Cats are a real pain in the ass

They kill 100 million song birds a year in Wisconsin. Most are "liberated" by their owners when "Fluffies box" becomes a pain in the ass to clean. The Owners then come out to the country and dump the cats where they go after baby ducks, baby geese, orioles, rose breasted grosbeaks etc.

Doyle is a Moran who is on his last term. He's in serious trouble.

The only reason he won the last time is the repukes ran a Tomato Can against him. It won't happen this time.

[Itsthetruth]

9. Damn Him! Now What Will I Hunt For Dinner?

Suppose I'll have to settle for fried skunk.

[bunkerbuster1]

15. Some folks'll never eat a skunk

but then again, some folk'll
Like Cletus, the Slack-Jawed Yokel!

[demgrrrll]

10. I have taken in two dumped cats in the past two to three years. The

owners are the ones who should be punished. Poor Squiddy did not have claws and was dumped out to fend for himself. He was down to half of his body weight when he made it to my back door. I did call all over to see if anyone had a lost pet but no one had reported Squid. People need to be responsible for their pets. Disclaimer.. Both cats WERE a huge handful, biters and sprayers but I am not sure if that was a result of the trauma of being dumped or if they had prior behavior problems. That factor does not excuse the dumping in any way shape or form.

[Gemini Cat]

12. Stupid owners.

You're right. The former owners are the ones who need to be punished, not the cats!

[Bryn]

13. Did you know that 70% of cats that end up at shelters are declawed?

Declawing cats cause them to become biter and have litter box issues, etc. That's why I don't declaw my 5 cats living in my house. They're happy and are completely housebroken, clean and use scratching posts. Lots of people think declawed cats would be easier, but WRONG...My mother had her beautiful white Turkish Angora declawed and two years later, she dumped her at the shelter because "she wouldn't stop pissing all over the carpet" even though she was completely housebroken BEFORE Mom had her declawed. Now my sister is complaining about her two declawed cats making mess on her bed (piss and poo). Goodness!! People need to be educated. If they don't want cats with claws, DO NOT HAVE CATS AT ALL..Cats should be CATS..

[zipplewrath]

24. I've got three declawed with none of the problems mentioned

Poor owners are poor owners, much like parents. Of course ya gotta declaw them young, REAL young. And then you are committing to "indoor" cats. As someone said, this problem has to do with the owners. Pets should be neutered. Pets should never be "dumped". Pets should be "cared for" not just "have around". The cat problem is real but blown out of proportion. If someone wanted to really address the problem, vets would be required to neuter animals. Tain't gonna happen.

[queeg]

30. Kinky Friedman for Texas Governor

One of Kinky's first laws is going to be jail time for people that de-claw cats.

[ozone_man]

63. It's cruel and should be outlawed.

Maybe we could have a hunting season on these owners. ;-)

[shanti]

60. well

you also have the cats that have claws AND bite...like mine;-)

[1monster]

16. I've taken in five in the last three. One just died of heart failure at

only about two and a half years old. Another, we took from nearly dead with starvation, thin rough, coat, open wounds all over his face, and nursed back to health. He was dropped off at about three months old and didn't trust anyone and he would not come into the house. He came to us when all other options were gone. Once his wounds healed up and his coat was thick and sleek again, I decided that I would put him in a cat carrier and take him to the vets for neutering. Right about that time, he disappeared (don't tell me cats can't understand English!). About six months later, he was back and in worse shape than before. We tried to nurse him back to health again, but after a couple days, he disappeared forever. We think he was too far gone at that point to save.

I have no sympathy for people who abandon their animals. They are domesticated animals and have no real idea how to fend for themselves adquately. Starvation is a terrible way to die...

[gordianot]

22. Sometimes males just like to hit the road.

My favorite cat hit the road one time for 3 months. After a visit to the vet he stopped his wandering ways. A couple year later a lady saw our cat in the yard and stopped. She said she had a stray that looked just like him about the time period he disappeared. She lived 15 miles down the road.

This cat had life good and had no real reason to stray. Felines sometimes have wanderlust.

[youthere]

64. We live in a very rural area

and have had plenty of "liberated" animals out here. The worst was one morning when I went outside there, huddled by the garage was a skinny, frightened torn up mess that resembled a cat. We put it in our carrier and took it to the vet, but there wasn't much that could be done for her. The vet thought it was probably a possum that had gotten ahold of her but wasn't sure. The real kicker was that she was declawed front and back. How was this cat supposed to defend herself? The vet put her to sleep,to end her suffering. God some people are such heartless bastards.

[MadHound]

19. Umm, you made a bit of a mistake there friend

Cats kill 100 million birds nationwide, not just in WI. Cats kill 7 million birds in WI. However, take a look at how many birds are killed by humans and their actions every year<http://www.currykerlinger.com/birds.htm>

Perhaps we should have a hunt for humans, after all, it's to protect the birds.

Good for the govenor, nice to see that there is somebody with common sense and compassion in WI government.

[jukes]

25. MadHound

thank you very much for correcting that misinformation & adding some reality to this discussion.

you have my respect.

[saigon68]

39. Check out the so called experts above.

Its about BIRDS SHREDDED BY WIND TURBINES.


http://www.currykerlinger.com/birds.htm

Curry & Kerlinger has compiled the following information from environmental organizations and goverment agencies.

This list is meant to inform the public and to put wind turbine fatalities in perspecitve.

BUT THEN IT DOESN'T MATTER.

EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY SHOOTS WILD CATS AND HAS DONE SO FOR A HUNDRED YEARS.

[MadHound]

43. Check the source friend

US Fish and Wildlife Service. The Audabon Society. People who are accustomed to counting wildlife, in fact people who are pro-bird. Not four anonymous researchers from WI, such as is cited in your source.

Thanks, I will stick with the experts anyday over four anonymous researchers doing estimates in their office, as opposed to the US Fish and Wildlife Service and the Audabon Society who actually get out in the field and COUNT! Large scale counting too, each and every year, but I suppose you haven't heard of the GBBC either.

[saigon68]

34. It's actually over 200 MILLION But Don't fret, Doyle won't be there long

http://www.wildbirds.com/protect_cats.htm

Researchers at the University of Wisconsin coupled a four-year cat predation study with data from other studies, and predicted a range of values for the number of birds killed each year in the state. By estimating the number of free-ranging cats in rural areas, the number of kills per cat, and the proportion of birds killed, the researchers calculated that rural free-roaming cats kill at least 7.8 million birds and perhaps as many as 217 million birds a year in Wisconsin.

Read up first before your ingnorance which up to now was well hidden, is revealed to all.




http://www.uwgb.edu/biodiversity/econotes/2003/pow20030216main.htm


These fresh tracks in the snow reveal that a cat (Felis silvestris) was here, most likely on the hunt. Domestic cats are highly effective predators that often hunt if they are allowed to roam freely. Studies indicate that more than 90% of free roaming pet cats hunt, and on average each kills about 14 wild animals per year (Coleman et al, 1997). A typical free roaming cat's diet consists of about 70% small mammals, 20% wild birds, and the remaining 10% reptiles, amphibians, fish, and arthropods; but they will eat what is most available. A recent study on Hawaii found that over 70% of the diet of feral cats was small songbirds (USGS). The impact of cat predation on endangered bird and small mammal populations is a growing concern.

Even if only 20% of an average cat's diet consists of birds, the impact on bird populations will be significant because of the sheer size of the cat population. According to Humane Society data there are at least 66 million pet cats in the United States. An estimated 40 to 60 million feral (stray or wild domesticated) cats nearly double this number. David Pimental, a scientist at Cornell University, estimates that pet cats kill 600,000 wild birds in the United States every year. Coleman et al. (1997) estimated that in Wisconsin alone at least 39 million birds (but possibly as many as 217 million birds) were killed by cats. Another study showed that cats were significant predators at bird feeders in the winter. Species in the United States that are at risk include Plover, Wood Thrush, and Black-throated Blue Warbler, and endangered species such as the Least Tern and Piping Plover.

[MadHound]

42. Friend, I'm working with numbers from the US Fish and Wildlife Service

People who know how to COUNT. Listen to your source, estimating the number of cats, estimating the number of kills, estimating the proportion which were kills:eyes: How about actually doing some real life counting, out in the field, the the US Fish and Wildlife service does, rather than sitting in an office and estimating.

As far as the number from Wisconsin, I think I'll take the Audobon Society's numbers(a pro bird group) over four anonymous researchers from Wisconsin, who apparently like to estimate more than actually count.

As Mark Twain says, there lies, damn lies and statistics. Your four anonymous researchers haven't detailed their methodology, nor how they were able to arrive at these estimates. For all we know, they plucked these numbers out of thin air.

Also notice that these numbers are slanted towards rural cats: "By estimating the number of free-ranging cats in rural areas, the number of kills per cat, and the proportion of birds killed, the researchers calculated that rural free-roaming cats " So apparently he is extrapolating his numbers from a rural population and assuming it covers all cats, rural and urban. More bad stats friend. Bad methodology.

You might think that your source proves something, and your right, it does. It proves that, once again, people will slant the numbers to please those who are paying them. Thanks, but I will stick with less biased numbers. I suggest you do also.

[bornskeptic]

45. The Audubon Society does not say 100 million a year.

It says hundreds of millions.

The American Bird Conservancy* has launched a citizen education and action campaign to end the massive and unnecessary loss of birds and other wildlife to predation by domestic cats. Scientists estimate that free-roaming cats (owned, stray, and feral) kill hundreds of millions of birds and possibly more than a billion small mammals in the U.S. each year. Cats kill not only birds that frequent our backyards, such as the Eastern Towhee, American Goldfinch, and Song Sparrow, but also WatchList species such as the Snowy Plover, Wood Thrush, and Black-throated Blue Warbler, and endangered species such as the Least Tern and Piping Plover.

http://www.audubon.org/bird/cat/

[MadHound]

53. Obviously you didn't read my link friend

So here, let me quote it for you: "The National Audubon Society says 100 million birds a year fall prey to cats. Dr. Stan Temple of the University of Wisconsin estimates that in Wisconsin alone, about 7 million birds a year are killed by cats" <http://www.currykerlinger.com/birds.htm>

I agree, the problem is a large one, however there is no need to over-inflate the numbers just to push an agenda. We abhor this when our opponents on the conservative side do this, let's not fall into the same trap ourselves.

In addition, the Audubon Society actually does a fairly thorough job of actually COUNTING the birds every year with the GBBC. I would rather rely on figures derived from real numbers as opposed to the anonymous estimates your source is citing.

[bornskeptic]

59. I read your link.

Why should I believe what the unknown author of your website claims the Audubon Society says when I can read what the Audubon Society says myself? You claim the National Fish and Wildlife Service supports you. Let's see a link for that. I find it very hard to believe that they would give a number as low as 100 million.

I'm afraid you're the one distorting the numbers. Do you really believe that 40+ million feral cats and 30+ million free-roaming domestic cats kill an average of less than two birds each per year?

I'm not in favor of hunting cats. I don't like the idea and I don't think it would do much, if anything, to alleviate the problem. But there is a serious problem, and trying to belittle it isn't going to make it go away.

[MadHound]

61. Then perhaps you should read your own source more carefully

If you would do so, you would find that your stats are actually pretty vague ones, taken from the American Bird Conservatory information, not from the Audubon Society.

As for my source, well, check for yourself. As consultants for both the Audubon Society and US Fish and Wildlife Service, Dick Curry and Paul Kerlinger are noted as preeminent experts in the field of avian research, and do extensive studies for both groups. They are the experts in the field. Who, and how well known are the authors of the ABC study that you cite?

You can read more on Curry and Kerlinger's accomplishments here: <http://www.currykerlinger.com/about.htm>

And I'm not trying to belittle the problem. I agree that feral cats are a threat to birds. However, I am against using over the top stats to boost a case. Just looking to bring a little reality to the matter.

Oh, I also have cats, and am an avid birder also. I keep my cats indoors, however I'm not going to shoot a feral cat just to protect the birds. We as a society should face the reality that much like the European Rabbit, one of many non-native animals in this country, cats have established themselves into an ecological niche. The best way of dealing with the problem isn't to try and kill them, but to promote live trapping and adaption, along with serious efforts to spay and neuter them.

[bornskeptic]

65. There is nothing in the article I linked

which says that the "hundreds of millions" came from an ABC study, or for that matter, where it came from, other than scientists. Curry and Kerlinger, on the other hand, make no claim to have studied the cat-bird situation themselves. They say their information came from
"environmental groups and govrnment agencies." In particular, they say the 100 million number is given by the National Audubon Society.
It isn't. If you don't like the article I linked, here's an official statement:

Resolution Approved by the Board of Directors on Dec. 7, 1997, Regarding Control and Management of Feral and Free-Ranging Domestic Cats:

(snip)

WHEREAS feral and free-ranging domestic cats are exceptional and prolific predators of small mammals, songbirds, small reptiles, large amphibians and large insects; and

WHEREAS feral and free-ranging domestic cats are estimated to kill hundreds of millions of native birds and other small animals annually in the United States; and

WHEREAS it has been estimated that birds represent 20-30% of the prey of feral and free-ranging domestic cats; and

(snip)

http://www.audubon.org/local/cn/98march/nasr.html

[MadHound]

67. Do you even read what you cite?

"The American Bird Conservancy* has launched a citizen education and action campaign to end the massive and unnecessary loss of birds and other wildlife to predation by domestic cats. Scientists estimate that free-roaming cats (owned, stray, and feral) kill hundreds of millions of birds and possibly more than a billion small mammals in the U.S. each year."

This cite of yours simply states "scientists", not scientists from the Audubon Society, OK. The only grammatical clue in that paragraph as to where those scientists come from is the first four words of the paragraph, "The American Bird Conservancy"*

Your second site, if you would read it, you would see it says "estimated to kill hundreds of millions of native birds and other small animals". Get that, not hundreds of millions of birds, but hundreds of millions of birds AND small animals. I'm not arguing that yes, cats kill hundreds of millions of birds AND small animals. What I am arguing is the claim of hundreds of millions of birds.

Also, if you would read down the page, you might get a clue that these stats were put out by the ABC, to wit "WHEREAS the American Bird Conservancy has concluded that feral free-ranging domestic cats can have a significant impact on local bird populations; and"

And I guess that if you're going to call into question the integrity and truthfulness of two pillars in their field such as Curry and Kerlinger, if you aren't going to believe the research done by THE authoritative agencies in the field, US Fish and Wildlife Service and the Audubon Society, then I guess there is no convincing you. One would think that one's common sense would also kick in when viewing the figure of "hundreds of millions" but hey, maybe that's just me:shrug:

I'm going to drop this now, as it is pointless. I honestly think that you and I have more in common on this issue than not, so I'm not going to sit here arguing numbers with you. However I do suggest that you sharpen your critical thinking skills and your research skills. It is obvious from your postings here that you tend to fall for sensationalism, and also tend not to read through things thoroughly, not good things to do.:hi:

[saigon68]

46. I'm not your friend

[MadHound]

54. Sorry, it is my attempt at being polite,

And bring some civility and politeness to the discourse. Apparently though, judging from your previous posts you would rather be screamed at in all caps and attacked with ad hominems. My bad, next time I'll be sure to insult you:eyes:

[saigon68]

69. I Can't wait

To quote the Moran in the white house.

"BRING IT ON" shouted the AWOL CHIMAPNZEE

LOL

P. S. Don't forget to let your cat out tonight.

My 2 are safely in bed and NOT ALLOWED OUTSIDE.

[nonconformist]

21. 100 million birds in Wisconsin?

Sheesh man, do you have any left at all?

I once read that 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

[Dave Reynolds]

27. In all of these cat hater threads

I have seen completely unbelievable numbers tossed around under the auspices of "the Audobon Society studied it", like an agenda group would be fair and objective.

[saigon68]

35. Get a Life and read this -- Then learn before you POST

You have no idea what you are talking about-- I could say more-- but I don't want my post deleted.


The 7.8 million figure is only "FREE RANGING CATS IN RURAL AREAS"

http://www.wildbirds.com/protect_cats.htm

There are about 66 million cats in the United States. 40 million are free to roam outside. This is not good news if you are a bird!

Cats are not a natural part of the ecosystem and compete with native predators.

Extensive studies show that approximately 60 to 70 percent of the wildlife cats kill are small mammals, 20 to 30 percent are birds, and up to 10 percent are amphibians, reptiles, and insects.

Researchers at the University of Wisconsin coupled a four-year cat predation study with data from other studies, and predicted a range of values for the number of birds killed each year in the state. By estimating the number of free-ranging cats in rural areas, the number of kills per cat, and the proportion of birds killed, the researchers calculated that rural free-roaming cats kill at least 7.8 million birds and perhaps as many as 217 million birds a year in Wisconsin.



http://www.uwgb.edu/biodiversity/econotes/2003/pow20030216main.htm


Coleman et al. (1997) estimated that in Wisconsin alone at least 39 million birds (but possibly as many as 217 million birds) were killed by cats. Another study showed that cats were significant predators at bird feeders in the winter. Species in the United States that are at risk include Plover, Wood Thrush, and Black-throated Blue Warbler, and endangered species such as the Least Tern and Piping Plover.

[MadHound]

44. Again, notice the word "estimate"

Again notice no mention of these peoples' methodology. Again, notice that this is a bullshit, meaningless set of stats, done in an office somewhere.

Sorry friend, you should stick with stats worked up by people who actually go out and COUNT things, you know, like that pro bird group I mentioned earlier, the Audabon Society(with their count every year in the GBBC), or the US Fish and Wildlife Service. People who've done this regualarly, who count the actual animals, who have a sound methodology that doesn't assume, as your source does, that all of WI is rural.

Give up this tired piece of propaganda, four anonymous researchers with questionable methodology, and even more questionable objectivity only serves to make you look foolish.

[pokercat999]

52. You are right about the feral cat problem.

But it's a problem EVERYWHERE. The answer isn't to kill cats that are just following their instincts. How about a humane trapping, sterilizing and release program that allows the cats to live but will over time eliminate or at least bring under control the problem. Oh yeah, how about a licensing program and leash law for domestic cats.


By the way I've read the bird killing as 40 million NATIONWIDE (from a study reported by the Cat Fancier's Association), I think the 100M in Wisc is not quite accurate.

[leesa]

72. Horseshit! You would be up to your armpits in rodents if it weren't for

cats. If your songbirds are dying, look to pollution and loss of woodlands.

[MADem]

78. They should do like they do with raccoons

Put out birth control bait and lower the population.

[Redstone]

14. Hey, BikeWriter! I guess we need to cancel that trip to Wisconsin

for Opening Day.

That's OK. I hadn't booked my tickets yet anyway.

Redstone

[saigon68]

41. Hey come on anyway

Most of these Fluffy supporters are from New York City, Chicago, Dallas etc.

In Wisconsin, we have 800.000 deer hunters soon to have a million or so cat hunters. There's plenty of sport for all here.

We have thousands of cat owners stocking the woods for us with their unwanted de-clawed pets.

No need to petition the DNR for Cat hatcheries etc to keep the woods stocked with game for the hunter etc</EXTREME SARCASM>

Seriously-- as a "CAT OWNER" I have had my cats neutered and spayed.

They are NOT ALLOWED OUTSIDE. There are too many wild animals

IE 30 pound Raccoons-- That would tear them a new asshole.

Not to mention my rustic neighbors who keep ducks, chickens etc who would look on them as killers of baby chicks and ducks, and would instantly blow their brains out with a hollow point 22.

Nope Cats are wonderful-- but every species has it's niche and cats don't belong free roaming in the country.

http://www.uwgb.edu/biodiversity/econotes/2003/pow20030216main.htm

[LisaL]

47. Oh geez, how many species of wild life have humans destroyed?

I bet way more than cats could ever hope to. Should we start a season on free roaming humans?

[saigon68]

48. Our native son Jeffrey Dahmer tried that and so did ED Gein another native

Jeffrey killed "Free Roaming" young homosexual men.

Rather than mount their heads on the wall like a lot of deer hunters--Jeffrey kept their Testicles in his refigerator for later snacking.

[LisaL]

56. Jeffrey Dahmer was a cat killer, torturer as well.

[saigon68]

68. Yes he was-- and he didn't like RABBITS Either.

[Redstone]

49. Well, Saigon68, I wish you were my neighbor...

since the ones I have aren't responsible enough to keep their cats out of my yard.

And not even taking my yard into consideration, here these people say the LOVE their kitties so much, but they let them out to get eaten by the raccoons, foxes, and coyotes that are ALL OVER the place around here.

And then they get upset, but don't accept the blame for not keeping the damn cats inside.

Redstone

[saigon68]

51. My "yard" -- is a 40 acre woods next to a State Forest.

I do not live in the city.

There is a lot of "pellet gun action" in the city.


Three of my nearest neighbors raise all kinds of ducks, chickens, pheasants, rabbits etc.

Also on edit : horses, llamas, sheep.


They are not amused when the "city slickers" dump old fluffy off to liberate her.

[jukes]

17. i'm shaken by the very thought

what hideous bastard came up w/this idea?

ON EDIT: i spay/release feral cats, rescue when i can, & presently help to support 3 colonies.

just let some nugentized inbred bastard shoot @ 1 of my ferals whilst i'm working. it'll be the very last feralcat stew that hillbilly will enjoy, guaranteed.

[davidinalameda]

18. thank goodness

[nonconformist]

23. Yay!

I'm appalled it was considered in the first place.

Hey Wisconsinites... just have Bill Frist stop by. Problem solved!

[preciousdove]

26. WI not quite MI yet LOL n/t

*

[Dave Reynolds]

28. A bitter defeat to all cat haters

who just love to have a "legitimate" reason to kill the object of their disgust.

[Skittles]

38. a defeat for cowards

those bastards are the lowest form of cowards

[GoddessOfGuinness]

29. I'm glad. Feral cats ARE a problem

but surely we can be creative enough to find a better alternative than this.

Feral cats also help keep the rodent population under control. Rats will raid birds' nests and eat the eggs more readily than cats will catch birds.

[NickB79]

31. As much as I hate feral cats, hunting wouldn't have helped much

I've shot quite a few feral cats roaming my parent's farm over the years because I realize what damage they can do to native ecosystems. Realistically, however, we could never shoot enough of the feral cats out there. There are upwards of what, 60 million feral cats in the US? Even if every deer hunter in the US shot a few feral cats every fall nationwide, it wouldn't put a dent in their population. They breed too fast, are too cunning and shy, and are too small of targets for most people to hit.

The only realistic solutions I can come up with are either to work around them, or find a biological control for them. To work around them, you have to address some of the other introduced species that aid their ability to kill native songbirds easily. For example, European buckthorn and Japanese honeysuckle bushes have taken over massive amounts of forested land in the Eastern US, displacing native shrubs. Birds nest in the buckthorns and honeysuckles, but due to the stronger branches of these exotics compared to native shrubs, it is much easier for cats to climb them and kill the chicks. If we could control invasive shrubs such as these, it would make it harder for cats to kill native songbirds. It would be much easier, and less political, to enact plant eradication programs than cat eradication programs. Similarly, native shrubs produce much more edible berries and nuts than buckthorn and honeysuckle, allowing birds to establish larger populations that are more resistant to hunting pressures than small ones.

The other option is to go with a biological control, similar to the viral release in Australia in the 1950's to combat their out-of-control rabbit population. A genetically engineered feline leukemia virus, for example, could wipe out entire colonies of feral cats once introduced. The problems with this option are numerous, though. Ignoring the obvious outcry this would recieve from the public, the cats would eventually develop immunity to the virus, just as the Australian rabbits did. Today rabbits are still a problem in Australia, despite having 95% of their population wiped out in the 1950's.

[colorado_ufo]

33. Another solution

Locally, we have a capture, spay/neuter, and release program that has been pretty effective in controlling the population of feral cats. Local vets volunteer their time for the surgeries, and local pet lovers do the capture and release. There is a strong local concern with Hanta virus - which is carried by field mice - and the cats perform an important public health service.

[LeighAnn]

32. Black Susan's Kittens

They were fruitful and multiplied in the Big Woods of Wisconsin.

[NeoConsSuck]

36. I took in two strays..

and both strays had feline aids. They died within a few years and I was left with hefty vet bills.

I do have two cats, not declawed, and they go outside. But not unless I'm home to watch them. If I'm not home, they're inside.

If anyone ever shot my cats, they would also be putting an expiration date on their life. A date that would expire sooner than a deli meat expiration date.

[leftchick]

37. Here is a Real solution...

I hate my neighbors cats entering my yard as much as the next person. I just may humanely trap them and take them to the shelter if the situation doesn't get better. I am a responsible owner of three all indoor cats. They should never be allowed outside period.
As far as the ferals go here is a real solution...


http://www.alleycat.org/

~snip~

Alley Cat Allies thanks Scott Hassett, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Secretary, and the DNR staff for their statements against shooting cats. ACA will assist the DNR in ensuring the safety of all cats and people in the state.

Wisconsin residents must show strong support for the DNR’s position. In the past week, we have been encouraged by media reports that so many Wisconsin residents not only oppose this cruel proposal but also understand that spaying and neutering outdoor cats is the only effective method of reducing their numbers – now we have to help get those people to speak out loudly in opposition.

This measure is still nothing more than a proposal sitting with the board of the Wisconsin Conservation Congress and would still have to go through numerous and difficult legislative processes.

It has been and continues to be a serious crime to shoot a cat whether feral or owned in Wisconsin, no matter where the animal is or what it may be doing. Anyone seen or proven to have shot a cat should be reported to animal control or the local authorities and punished under the State’s animal cruelty laws.

[saigon68]

40. Sorry LC

The LAW here is only concerned with people who possess a joint in their pocket and/or operate a motor vehicle without a license.The rural sheriffs have other priorities. The DNR is after deer and eagle poachers.

Most of the yahoos carping and harping about "Poor Fluffy" here,-- don't live in the country and see hundreds of De-clawed Cats a year dumped in the wild to fend for themselves.

These cats get real thin, real mangy and real sick competing with the Raccoons, Foxes, Badgers and Weasels that also freely roam.

[EFerrari]

50. I used to trap ferals in Santa Monica.

It's so easy. They love sardines in tomato sauce. We got them healthy, neutered and found compulsively patient people to work with them, house them. It's not rocket science.

I wonder what kind of bait would work for the morans that declaw cats and then dump them.

[BiggJawn]

55. All this furor over Feral cats and birds, but do you know...

..that in the Dakotas, there are programs where Sunflower farmers POISON millions of birds?

Ain't that a hoot? Think about that next time you lay out some black oil for your yard birds. Think about how many red-wing blackbirds died so "YOUR" blue-jays could eat.

Maybe the "Save the Birds" crowd could lobby for an open season on South Dakota Sunflower Farmers...

[Redstone]

70. Could you provide some documentation on that?

Thanks,

Redstone

[BiggJawn]

73. Documentation on what?

That Dakota Sunflower Farmers poison wild birds? and want to poison MORE? Or that Blue Jays eat black oil sunflowwer seed?
As I recall, I've read it several times in the past several years in "Sierra" magazine. "sunflower" and "poisoned birds" might be the right search terms.

Now don't get me wrong, I feed the birds too. I also feed the cats and catch them and get them "fixed" so that they're the last generation. Interesting to note that the last 2 we took to the vet had already been neutered.

My point was, and is, that if you're going to justify killing dumped housecats and their progeny because "they kill too many cute widdle boidies" then you'd better take your guns to the Dakotas and start plugging the farmers, too.

[saigon68]

75. How do they poison the birds?

What kind of poison do they use.

[BiggJawn]

76. Open WI-I-I-I-DE! Here comes the tasty AIRPLANE!!!

If I'm going to have to spoon-feed y'all....

BAM! Second from the top. Google is Our Friend.

http://www.audubon.org/campaign/blackbird/usda.html

Tom Meersman
Star Tribune
Published Sept. 29, 2001

"The U.S. Agriculture Department, rejecting concerns about the environmental consequences, is moving ahead with a plan to poison about 6 million blackbirds to reduce damage to sunflower crops in the Upper Midwest.

USDA officials have finished a preliminary environmental report, to be published by mid-October, that recommends poisoning 2 million birds a year beginning in 2003.

Poisoned rice would be placed in east-central South Dakota fields during spring migration. Officials say the program is one of the largest bird-killing efforts undertaken by the Agriculture Department."

Snip and go read it for yourselves.

So who wants to introduce legislation opening a season on sunflower farmers?

This ain't about the birds, it's about how some people really NEED to go talk to somebody about this "Cat Thing" they got going on.

[saigon68]

77. Thanks

I did not know that.

[zanne]

57. To all you people who want to protect the birds from cats

by shooting the cats; who is going to protect the cats from YOU?

[Redstone]

66. Actually, their owners could protect them, by keeping them out

of other people's yards!

Pretty simple, that.

Redstone

[yellowcanine]

62. If they approved it, would one ber allowed to use dogs to hunt the cats?

Just asking. Might be a use for all of those fox hounds in England, now that they can't be used for fox hunting anymore. Could a fox hound be retrained to chase cats?

[leesa]

71. Excellent! I like this guy. Maybe the GOP nuts in Wisco could have them

declared terrorists and have Homeland Security send them to SA or Syria for torture.

[nolabels]

74. Heck, maybe some enterprising company could retrain them

Live catch them, then retrain them to go after ground burrowing gophers and ship them out to us folks out here in the western states