Bystander shot by cop dies

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

<snip>

"We were never able to communicate with her after the shooting," added her father, Richard Keller of Cheektowaga. "For weeks, we've known she would never be herself again."

Buffalo police have called the case a tragic accident and have said Keller was an innocent bystander.

Police said Mario J. Pittman, a longtime criminal, was trading gunfire with Thomas P. English, a patrolman from the Ferry-Fillmore District, when one of the officer's bullets struck Keller. She was inside a friend's apartment near the Buffalo-Cheektowaga border, when the shootout occurred at about 2:30 a.m.

Keller was looking out the window of the apartment of her friend, Christopher Milam, when one of the officer's shots hit her in the eye, authorities said. "Earlier that night, Amber had stopped by my house for a visit," her mother said. "I told her, "Please don't go into that neighborhood tonight.' She told me she would be fine. Amber had recently broken up with someone. (Milam) had broken up with his girlfriend. They were close friends, and they were comforting each other."

<snip>

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050515/1026825.asp

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

2. It's just the available news...

This article really does not portray the police in a negative light.

[SouthernDem2004]

3. True, this one doesn't directly but

I noticed you do not post any positive ones at all. If you are looking for a fair mix try officer.com.

[bpilgrim]

5. the title sounds biased to me

maybe it's your judgment thats askew

peace

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

6. Okay, here's one: Minnesota Police: Slain Officer Vick was Drunk

http://officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=23621

The blood-alcohol level of the St. Paul police officer killed while working undercover a week ago was twice the legal limit to drive, the St. Paul Police Department said Thursday.

The Ramsey County medical examiner's office reported Sgt. Gerald Vick's blood-alcohol level was 0.20 percent. The legal limit in Minnesota to drive is 0.10.

Vick, a 15-year St. Paul police veteran who was buried Wednesday, has been hailed as a hero and won the department's top honor twice. He was working an undercover vice investigation and had just left an East Side bar when he was slain early last Friday, police have said.

Undercover officers are allowed to drink alcohol while working, usually to better blend into their surroundings, but not to excess. The St. Paul Police Department has a policy governing the use of alcohol by undercover officers.

<snip>

[SouthernDem2004]

7. See, they are fair. You post just negatives. You make my point.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

10. It was too easy not to pick that one after your invite to the site...

that looks like a really good site for people interested in the business of law enforcement, however it's not a site that is picked up often by the search engines as news (even though the above story was an AP release).

I do searches with key words, and cops or police are never one of them. I just pick the more unusual or more interesting (to me).

You can do the same and post stories that exlemplify the better nature of any group you would like. That's one of the great things about this board.

[SouthernDem2004]

12. Hey its a good site. It is actually fair and balanced. Anyway...

You do have a point and the truth is I read the negative stories first myself.

Peace

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

16. Cheers!

Oh if only all disagreements could be discussed like this. There would be far less deleted posts.

:toast:

[bennywhale]

14. The police are a very powerful

organisation both politically and socially. They don't need cheerleaders they have too much protection as it is, they need scrutiny from the public which they serve, which is what this post is all about.

To start putting positive posts on would be pointless. That would just mean they were carrying out their job as they are paid to do, the absence of negative posts is sufficient for this.

Why do we need to praise them for doing their job properly. I do my job properly and get no praise and so it should be as i'm paid to do it.

When innocent people are killed by policemen in gunfights its something that should be brought to the publics' attention.

[Retired AF Dem]

23. The criminal that was shooting at the cop bears no

responsiblity? Without him there would of been no shootout. I wonder how good of a shot you would be with incoming bullets.

[bennywhale]

28. It goes without saying that the criminal is in the

wrong. By definition (criminal) he is obviously in the wrong. However this isn't the movies and it isn't a simple dichotomy of good guys and bad guys. Terms that Bush is so fond of describing the world in. A policemen's bullet killed an innocent person in their aparrtment inside a building. That is something to be concerned about. However as usual the police are never to blame. Its never there fault, they're all heroes. That the crap that comes out of Hollywood, its not reality.

The power that the police hold (that over life and death of citizens) should be held up to the highest scrutiny at all times. Power corrupts. To think otherwise is naive.

The police should be held properly accountable for their actions, which they are not, they act with impunity.

[devinsgram]

4. Not to defend the story, but you have to remember

For the media, "If it bleeds it leads." That's their motto, of course it it's about the war in Iraq, then they forget about it. So please don't shoot the messenger.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Cooley Hurd]

11. *snarf*

A well-deserved touche!:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Benhurst]

9. Fortunately the police behaving inappropriately is news.

When the day comes their going about their jobs routinely and doing their duty becomes news, we will be in trouble.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[sweetheart]

17. bummer about the guns

Police have a way of forcing people in to a corner, and then the
guns start blazing. What if they backed off, and were more subtle.

As much as some folks on this thread think its a bad spin for police
officers, i find it typical. It takes a bully to be the face of the
police state, and when a tragedy like this happens, it only reinforces
the state of affairs... that the police are as dangerous as the
criminals.

I trust police less than criminals, as i pose no threat to criminals,
they are not a threat to me. Whereas police, they are constantly
threatening. Heck, they've even pulled their guns out and aimed
them at me "by mistake" as it turned out, but when you do that kind
of shit to civilians, you make lifelong scars of distrust.

The police state has gone too far, when the worst criminals are those
in uniform, draining the taxes for endless war and repression in the
streets, in a self-created drugs prohibition war.

[makhno]

20. Sad as this story is

It's probably not the smartest thing to rubberneck a shootout from a window.

[sweetheart]

21. a sort of suicide

They have a term for this, is it not suicide by police? or something
like that... where a person intent on taking their own life, gets
the police to do the dirty.

It seems this girl had an unconscious deathwish, like juliet in
shakespeare's classic.

[Trillo]

29. Your thought seems like an attack-the-victim

perspective not supported by the story.

If I heard something odd in the street, I'd probably go look. Then I might be able to determine it was gunfire or a car backfiring, or something else. By that time, I'd've already looked out the window or walked outside.

To take the opposite course of action, to not investigate odd sounds, seems a rather oblivious-to-one's-surroundings attitude.

[SouthernDem2004]

22. Not unusual...

Brief story of stupidity:

A K-9 officer was running a track through the woods looking for an armed robbery suspect. Myself and one other officer were walking behind him as covers. As covers we were wearing nightvision gogles and carrying M16s. At one point we come out of the woods into someones back yard. A man from the house was grilling out back. He actually called others to come out and watch. Here you have 3 heavily armed Police clearly searching for someone and they thought it would be fun to watch. Guess they thought we were looking for the Easter Bunny.

[blue sky at night]

24. I see the truth is out now......

you being an officer don't like it when one of your own gets his name in the paper. Hey man you should know better than anyone; it comes with the territory. I do agree the police foment a lot of ill will, especially when their primary purpose is to collect revenue from bad people who exceed the speed limit in speed traps. I dislike guns at any level, whether in the hands of a criminal or trained professional killers, like the police. This country has turned a decisive corner in my opinion since the Bush Crime Family has stolen the office, and it ain't getting any better soon. Remember an organization or a country is gets it direction from the top, and our leader is Criminal, a Coward and a Cheat...Have fun and keep the safety off. Won't it be nice when all the bad news about the Government is keep strictly out of the Media!!

[SouthernDem2004]

31. No idea what post you are replying to.

Sorry but that post made little sense.

By the way, the Police are run by local governments not Federal. The White House has no say or control over Police Departments.

Also, most officers carry Glocks these days. They do not have safetys.

Enjoy your world.

Peace

[blue sky at night]

34. I understand how smart you are,

but you dont get my point, when the leader of an organization is corrupt the whole organization is corrupt, that would be the United States of American.........which I think is where your duty is. Have fun, the saftey point meant be ready at all times......lawlessness is the rule now in my opinion.

[SouthernDem2004]

36. You are still making little sense.

The Feds have nothing to do with State and Local law enforcement agencies. The President of the United States of America does not have any influence over local LE.

Peace

[blue sky at night]

38. I must say you sir cannot see the forest for the trees,

and I might add that you may have a chip on your shoulder, but I want you to understand that I don't blame you. All I am saying is lawlessness in the General Public, the Corporations, and in Government in General are more likely when Criminals occupy the White House. If you deny that then, shit man you just aren't paying attention! (or the above two statements ring true). I am on your side, not against you, but please understand it can be hard to support my local police at times. Enough said, PEACE.

[bpilgrim]

35. "They do not have safetys" - obviously

just like them tazers some of your profession seem easer to use.

cops used to be PROUD of not having had to use their guns during their career but nowadays i don't know... seems like they need a substitute even during record low crime - i know the reTHUGs are making things worse recently but we are coming off over a decade of DECLINING crime and violence.

you must really be pissed at the reTHUGs...

be SAFE!

peace

[SouthernDem2004]

37. Its the...

State and local Republicans and pandering Democrats that cause the crime problems. Pffft Three strikes... Sounds good on TV news but does not work in practice.

[Sterling]

39. I could have told you that.

Does anyone smell bacon in here?

[NNN0LHI]

40. I like you Sterling. A lot

But don't you think that might have been one step over the line? Take care.

Don

[1monster]

26. Scary, isn't it, when you have two guns held by police officers pointed at

you?

That happened to me in the early '80s. I had just entered the house and entered the alarm code on the burgler alarm system. But that system HATED me. (It shorted out once at 2:00 a.m. when I was alone and sleeping in the house... long stroy.) It would not accept the code and sounded out. I called the sheriff's office immediately with the code that it was a false alarm. Just as I hung up the phone with the sheriff's office, two deputy sheriffs burst into the room, guns drawn and aimed... :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

I don't think one ever forgets the feeling of looking down the wrong end of a gun...

[sweetheart]

27. Fucking malibu

I had the malibu police pull guns on me for speeding on the coast
highway. I read later on, about "accidental" traffic deaths from malibu
cops getting gunhappy, and totally understand how THAT happened.

The film, "the big lebowski" made me laugh by casting the malibu
police as such assholes...

In high school, i had the police helicopter spot me whilst i was
riding my bicycle on Santa Monica Boulevard at night. that was even scarier
as the big light comes on from above and they talk in this loudspeaker
... turns out a burglary suspect had evaded police in the area...

In another case of a traffic violation, this cop was just really hostile
and took me to jail for telling another driver "fuck you". That cop
tossed my drivers license down an embankment so i'd have to get another
one... i had to go back there after i got out of jail, to find my
license in the undergrowth. That asshole unclipped his gun and had his
hand on it as he demanded i get on the hood of my car... "briarcliff
manor, new york" ...

3 times lucky is my view. The final straw for me, was being grabbed
by a cluster of police in battery park, NYC for having my dog off
leash so she could run around a bit. The guys were all in plain
clothes, and they scared the shit out of me, like a gang cornering
someone... and they said i was evading arrest... fucking assholes.
I was staying after my dogs and avoiding a gang of hoodlums... i
never paid those "dog off leash" tickets... and FUCK rudi guiliani
and his zero tolerance bullshit.

The police state has obviously too much money on its hands to start
shaking down persons like myself, who's only crime in life is traffic
violations and smoking some grass to chill. I've no sympathy when
people who threaten others with guns, even implied threats, get
in trouble.... they should have thought of that when they strapped
on a lethal weapon in public.

[Retired AF Dem]

30. All the women that have been killed by serial killers

all the little kids taken and killed posed no threat to criminals. By your thinking this should not have happened. In real life it is the people that don't pose a threat to criminals that become victims. Criminals are risk managers, they always look for the easiest target.

[sweetheart]

32. Yep, that's why only police have pulled guns on me

I admit, once i was cornered by a gang in South Santa Monica (Dog Town).
It was all dressed hispanic and knives were flashed... but then i
"knew" a chap on the gang named "enrique". We went to school together,
and when Enrique recognized me, he told his mates to back off.

That was the worst criminal threat i've ever faced, for violating
gang territory at night. Compared to having police point guns at me,
threatening to kill me for traffic violations... there's no comparison.

I'm sure in the perfect world of which you speak, police protect the
victems of crime. I've only seen that in the UK. Perhaps it depends
on the police force involved. Police are a well-paid gang with
fancy colours, and they kill civilians. That is what i know about them.
I'm sure that all the persons they protect know otherwise, but because
of the drugs war, i have no trust of police, as they are a threat to
my well being, and that of my family... so best to smile, be polite
and get the hell away from them before they shoot someone.

[NNN0LHI]

33. I don't trust anyone who carries "drop guns" either

I am with you on this matter.

Don