Coming Soon: Googling The Truth

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

What does the truth look like? Google, the company last week confirmed as the biggest media firm on the planet, rather hopes that it reads something like this: WO 2005/029368.

That's the number of one of several patents filed in the US recently by the Californian internet giant. According to that patent, Google is for the first time planning to rank news stories according to their accuracy and reliability as well as their topicality.


Google, and its heavyweight competitors, are pouring billions of dollars and thousands of staff hours into trying to ensure that when you search on the internet, you receive not only exactly the information you want, but also information that is true.


During the early days of the internet boom, it was predicted that search engines would gradually lessen in importance as users latched on to their favourite sites. But the opposite has proved true, with Google and its competitors becoming the way into the web for eight in 10 web users, according to Ask Jeeves.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/news/0,12597,1509381,00.html

[jeff30997]

1. And who decides what is true or not ?

[ixion]

5. That was my thought. n/t

[VegasWolf]

12. Whoever pays Google the most money gets their say. Its Murika!nt

[rainbow4321]

20. Like Kenny-boy Lay

http://google.blognewschannel.com/index.php/archives/2005/01/08/enrons-ken-lay-using-paid-search-for-pr/


AP is reporting that disgraced formare Enron CEO Kenneth Lay has been using paid search ads and listings to draw traffic to his website and its declarations of innocence.

Lay has been paying Google, Yahoo and AOL 5-12 cents a click to get the top ad for searches on his name. The website, kenlayinfo.com, contains “carefully chosen articles about Lay, interviews with him, legal filings, and biographical information on him and his legal team”.

What a great idea. Sure, Lay is most likely a criminal, but you gotta give him props for embracing this very important new advertising medium. Someone on his legal team realized that people searching for him are only going to get bad news, so the only way to beat that was with a very prominent link. You’d be hard pressed to find anything positive about him anywhere in the search results.

[Eloriel]

27. Whoa!! 5-12 cents a CLICK?

That could be quite a little piece of change.

[tanyev]

37. That's why I click on it 20 times every day.

:evilgrin:

[Massacure]

39. Google's ads are off to the side though.

The actual site's are ranked based on the amount of hits they receive and how many other sites link to them, if I recall.

Unfortunately the amount of links also makes it possible to 'google bomb' their rank.

[Miss Chybil]

14. You do.

If they are to provide this service they should also provide references, sources, etc. Read through many and figure it out yourself.

[knowbody0]

17. the truth police

[darkism]

2. Didn't they just hire some neocon?

Uh oh.

[mom cat]

6. And we all know what their version of the truth is!

[rainbow4321]

19. He used to work at Carlyle Group

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/24/google_neocon/


Lookout, France! Google hires neo-con headbanger

The company that prides itself on "Doing No Evil" isn't taking any chances with its latest executive appointment. Dan Senor, the company's new Global Communications and Strategy VP, has a CV guaranteed to have Register columnist Otto Z Stern firing a celebratory fusillade skywards from his compound in New Mexico.

A former Senior Associate at the Carlyle Group, Senor was briefly Scott McLellan's deputy as White House spokesman before becoming head of the the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq's information department. The White House web site bills him as Senior Advisor to Presidential Envoy L. Paul Bremer III. Fox News hired Senor as a panelist in February. While in Iraq Senor showed his loyalty by going jogging in a Bush-Cheney '04 tracksuit.

Not everyone is impressed.

"I have come to associate his triangular, brush-cut head with an unceasing stream of bullshit. He's Ari Fleischer without the charm," writes one grump. "Hiring this guy is a repulsive move."

[Eloriel]

28. OMG -- Fomerly with Carlyle Group, formerly with Bremer in Iraq

This is VERY, very bad news for "the truth."

Orwell couldn't have imagined, just couldn't have imagined.

This one's hitting me HARD.

[leftchick]

29. Dan Senor, neo-con extrordinaire...

this is very frightening. :(

[MasonJar]

3. That is scary because I believe I've read that the Google owners

are conservative pugs. I hope that I am wrong.

[LostinRed]

8. the get a 100% blue from buyblue.org

A search on opensecrets.org show their CEO Eric Schmidt gave to Dems.

More on google's political affiliation
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-02-13-google-give-usat_x.htm?csp=34

[darkism]

9. "Republicans must work hard to win support..."

"...from a company whose employees seem philosophically wed to Democrats, Noble says."

Given that Google's philosophy is "Don't be evil," it seems appropriate that they would oppose the GOP. :D

[Eloriel]

30. Yeah, well, Senor is a Neo-Con-- see posts upthread n/t

[dissent1977]

16. Wasn't Google Started by an Ex-CIA Operative?

I know I read a really frightening article about Google's origins a while back, and how they track users searches. I will see if I can find the story.

[TwentyFive]

4. Test will be to see how FOXNEWS.COM ranks.

It should rank somewhere between propaganda and infotainment. Any other ranking means the system is rigged.

[ooglymoogly]

7. i for one do not trust google

IMO they tell you what they want you to know...if it were yahoo well I'd give them the benefit of the doubt...but not google...i use other search engines...especially for the news

[Eloriel]

31. what others do you use? n/t

[ooglymoogly]

34. dogpile and scroogle

[Straight Shooter]

55. I use Alta Vista. I do lots of research in my work, and I like them best

Years ago I used the Northern Light portal, but they began to charge for news. I've used Alta Vista ever since. It's my home page, in fact.

http://www.altavista.com/

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

10. well, I DID find DU by googling anti Bush sites. n/t

MKJ

[patdem]

22. Well, lets just try that now...I will google for anit bush sites and see

if DU shows up...will be right back...

It appears you found your way here from the back door..since google does NOT have DU on its first 50!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

24. I'm sure I found DU by googling "anti Bush"

I was positive there was a site out there that mirrored my frustration and anger. I did this almost exactly a year ago.

Off to retrace my steps and figure out how it happened. Back shortly. MKJ

edited for grammer

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. OK, I forgot a step. I then went on "Anti-Bush" link directory which is

listed first with the Google search.

After that, I clicked on DU. It seems like it was the second site I clicked on, based on the description at the link directory.

(I was specifically looking for discussion boards).

Once I found this place, I searched no further.

So, I started my search by googling, sorry, I forgot this directory popped up until I went back and did it again.

I'd better research my own comments more thoroughly! MKJ

edited to add the directory:

http://www.linkcrusader.com/anti-bush.htm

It's little easier to navigate than last year.

[HeeBGBz]

54. Hahahaha, look what I found when I googled anti-Bush!

http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html

Destroy Bush and Compassinate Conservative Voltron

[keopeli]

11. There was a negative warning about google here on DU in the last 6 mo.

Does anyone remember what it was? It was an indicator to me that I should find another search engine to trust...

[stillcool]

26. Google hires Dan Senor for VP of Global Communications and Strategy

former Senior Associate at the Carlyle Group, Senor was briefly Scott McLellan's deputy as White House spokesman before becoming head of the the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq's information department. The White House web site bills him as Senior Advisor to Presidential Envoy L. Paul Bremer III. Fox News hired Senor as a panelist in February. While in Iraq Senor showed his loyalty by going jogging in a Bush-Cheney '04 tracksuit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x127704

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1477791

[WhiteTara]

38. we will soon see a new truth

1984 was just a wrong date.

[Kelvin Mace]

13. Huh?

Let me get this straight. Google, a company that is currently teaming up with Communist China (along with Microsoft and Yahoo!)to censor and block access to blogs that use forbidden words like "democracy", "freedom" and "human rights", is now going to decide what is, and isn't true.

Google's guiding motto is supposedly "Don't be evil".

Trouble is, who defines evil? According to Google's CEO, Eric Schmidt, "Evil is whatever Sergey (Google's co-founder) says is evil."

Now, don't you feel better.

Apparently Brin sees no problem helping Communist tyrants silence dissent in their country. Gee, an American corporation helping a COMMUNIST government oppress it's people. Isn't that illegal? Of course not, you silly goose. It's an AMERICAN company doing it. An AMERICAN company making LOTS of money is always right.

So, to recap, helping dictators is NOT evil, as long as you make money at it.

This is the company that will decide what "truth" is.

Now, don't you feel better?

[silverweb]

15. Well, there's always Scroogle....

I keep it bookmarked as an alternative. Although I do find the passionate hatred for Google there a bit weird and suspicious... and Google has superior capabilities for most of my needs... and I haven't really researched just why there's so much animosity for Google at Scroogle... it's always nice to have an anti-establishment alternative.

And then there are Alta Vista, Lycos, Yahoo, AskJeeves, etc, etc, etc....

Maybe the time has come for a more diverse universe of search engines?

If a bit of information doesn't "feel right" or if in doubt of its veracity, verify information by comparing with other, more diverse sources. Always question and always verify.

I can't think of any other way to sift truth from garbage.

:shrug:

[nicknameless]

33. Thanks!

I didn't know about Scroogle (Screw Google?).
I repeated a search there that I had tried on Google yesterday and got many more hits. Bookmarked!

[silverweb]

53. You're most welcome!

:hi:

[0rganism]

18. OK, I tried it. Results were fairly interesting.

I got an anti-smoking site as #1, and truthout.org was #2 on the list, which is not bad at all. An urban legend archive, and an anti-Michael Moore site also made the top 10.
http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Truth

[napi21]

21. Even though you don't like Google, the idea is a terrific one!

I'm suggesting that it be a Dem site either, because that would frustrate the intent, but I think it's a terrific idea for SOMEONE to do a web site like that. One that would actually site references and documented proof of the decision they made as to truth or lie in reporting.

The problem I see is that it would require a large number of researchers to keep up with everything that's out there, and I don't know if anyone would be willing to front that much $$.

[daleo]

23. Who watches the watchers?

In the end you still have to decide for yourself.

"I don't know if anyone would be willing to front that much $$"

There probably are people willing to front that much money, but it wouldn't be difficult to guess their motives.

[nicknameless]

32. I worried when Google went public that they'd be bought out by neocons.

I had no idea that they would end up veering to the right by a more direct route (neocon executive appointment).

The info about China is VERY disturbing.

[woosh]

35. scary

[Pharlo]

36. Does anyone else here use dogpile.com?

It's a metasearch site. Combines results from google, yahoo, AskJeeves, overture, and numberous other search engines. It also tells you which search engine a particular result was found on. It's my primary search engine of choice - Can save time.

I did the 'anti-bush' search (listed are some of the results in no certain order):

Too Stupid To Be President
Toostupidtobepresident.com employs Flash animation to ridicule the limited intellectual capacity of the candidate that a few wealthy individuals forced on the Republican Party. ... 11 thing...
www.toostupidtobepresident.com/ (Found on Yahoo, Ask Jeeves)

President Moron
KnowtheCandidates.org - master Bush link page GeorgeBush2000 Citizens at Large The Bush Brothers Banana Republic Hated.com - The Anti-Bush...
www.presidentmoron.com/ (Found on Ask Jeeves)

Protest Illegal President With US Mail
Protest the stolen presidential election every time you mail a letter. Here are free logos to attach to your envelopes.
www.angelfire.com/tx2/rforgy/Sticker.html (Found on Ask Jeeves)

Anti-Bush Web Sites - Hate Bush and Bush-Hating Sites
Complete listing of anti-Bush Web sites dedicated to monitoring, resisting and burning Bush.
politicalhumor.about.com/cs/antibush/index.htm (Found on About)

3.
Anti-bush
A political link directory to Democratic Party sites, anti-Bush sites, Progressive sites, Media Sites, Activist Tools, News sites & Message Boards, ...
www.linkcrusader.com/anti-bush.htm (Found on Google, Yahoo, Ask Jeeves)

5.
Unique Anti-Bush and Progressive Gear
T-shirts, bumper stickers, decals, buttons and more. Great selection and prices. We ship fast.
Sponsored by: www.idiots4bush.com (Found on Overture)

16.
Bush Countdown Keychain
Because counting backwards makes the time pass quicker.
Sponsored by: www.backwardsbush.com/ (Found on Web Search Picks)


10.
THE ANTI-BUSH VIDEO GAME
Bad at videogames? Low on time? Here's a sample of some of Bushgame's educational parts:. Select Issue, *Surplus/Deficit*, Budget Crisis, Estate Tax ...
www.emogame.com/bushgame.html (Found on Google, Yahoo)

25. Anti-Bush Clothing / Laptop Bag Label? - Netlore Archive
Translated into English, the French portion of an American product label reads: 'We are sorry that our president is an idiot. We did not vote for him.'
urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_anti_bush_label.... (Found on Google, About)

30. Protest Illegal President With US Mail
Protest the stolen presidential election every time you mail a letter. Here are free logos to attach to your envelopes.
www.angelfire.com/tx2/rforgy/Sticker.html (Found on Ask Jeeves)

41. Anti-Bush Web Sites - Hate Bush and Bush-Hating Sites - page 2 of 2
Complete listing of anti-Bush Web sites dedicated to monitoring, resisting and burning Bush.
politicalhumor.about.com/cs/antibush/index_2.htm (Found on About)

59. Link Crusader
A political link directory to Democratic Party sites, anti-Bush sites, Progressive sites, Media Sites, Activist Tools, News sites & Message Boards, Forums & Groups ... Over 3000 Links to An...
www.linkcrusader.com/ (Found on Yahoo)

61. 1500 Anti-Bush Bumper Stickers here! A Bumper Sticker A Day keeps George W. Bush a...
Check out our simply HUGE collection of anti-Bush and pro-Democrat bumper stickers -- the largest liberal collection of stickers against Bush on the whole world wide web! A choice for consu...
irregulartimes.com/santibushmisc.html (Found on Yahoo)


67. George W. Bush Buttons - anti-bush, no W!
... Anti-War/Peace Buttons. Anti-Bush Buttons. Miscellaneous Buttons ... Anti-War/Peace Buttons. Anti-Bush Buttons. Miscellaneous Buttons ...
www.whatididinthewar.com/bush.html (Found on Yahoo)

70. Deshrubify Amerikkka-Fuck You George Dumbiya Bush
bush, george bush, dubiya, dumbiya, republikkkan, fascist,shrub, deshrubify. ... ALL-TEXT PAGE INDEX - OVER 500 LINKS TO ANTI-BUSH, PRO-DEMOCRACY WEB PAGES ... e-mail addresses of media & c...
www.pieman.org/anti-bushlinks.html (Found on Yahoo)

71. Anti-Bush Fun!
Anti-Bush Fun! Have fun while dreading tomorrow! (The web site for the NEXT four years -- AAAAAAAHHHH!) Fuzzy Math. " For diplomacy to be effective, lies must be credible." (POSTED: October...
psychoanalystsopposewar.org/AntiBushFun.html (Found on Yahoo)

74. Hated - Hated by many - Loved by liberals
Hated is your portal to the very best of freedom, independent liberal thought and action. We're hated by many, but we're loved by liberals. ... Frequently updated phototoons of Bush and the...
www.hated.com/ (Found on Yahoo)

75. One Thousand Reasons: Documenting the Failures of the Bush Administration
... Documenting the Failures of the Bush Administration ... John Bonifaz, a self-styled constitutional lawyer and anti-war activist, suggested there are sufficient grounds to ...
www.thousandreasons.org/ (Found on Yahoo)

[siliconefreak]

40. Report: Google to start new payment system

Electronic service would rival eBay's PayPal

The Associated Press
Updated: 4:51 a.m. ET June 18, 2005

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. - Online search-engine leader Google Inc. is preparing to introduce an electronic payment system later this year in a move that would pose a financial threat to one of its biggest advertisers, Internet auctioneer eBay Inc.

More: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8264385/

[WePurrsevere]

41. If they do this could be great news...

Depending on how Google sets it up it has potential. I've been a very small seller (and buyer) on eBay for over 6 yrs and have quite a few friends that sell on eBay and websites that are NOT at all happy with Paypal (or for that matter ebay but it's where the buyers are.)

I look forward to seeing what they actually come out with. :)

Thank you for posting this! :)

[SouthernDem2004]

43. Whats wrong with paypal?

I use it from time to time with no problems. Something I should know about?

[tkmorris]

44. Try here

Obviously a biased site but the information you seek is there.
http://www.paypalsucks.com/

[WePurrsevere]

45. There are a few issues..

As someone posted PayPal Sucks documents and is an activist site on those issues.

Knock on wood I have only run into the poor customer service however I've had a few friends and know others on auction board sites that have run into trouble with PayPal such as are mentioned on PPsucks. It's been enough that I've set up a totally separate bank account to use with PayPal. When I have funds in the PP account they are taken either to pay for bills, home items, shipping supplies, etc or deposited in our normal account that is not tied into. We can't afford PP locking any money up although I know that there are some categories with a higher incidence rate of scammers and none of the categories I sell under are in those high ones.

There are ways to protect yourself as both a buyer and a seller. IMO the biggest is use your instinct.. three of which are: if you're using eBay check the feedback, write the seller to ask a question and see how and if they respond to you... even if a "duh" one... and use a credit card.... what can potentially work against a seller can work in the buyers favor. :)

Although I'd love to see truly viable alternatives to Paypal and eBay overall I rather enjoy buying and selling online and on eBay and have been lucky with only a couple bad experiences as a seller and buyer.

Hope that wasn't overkill but I got on a roll and figured I'd leave it. :)

[nicknameless]

48. My experience:

My main issue with them is that they mislead users into believing that transferring money from their bank accounts is just as safe as charging on their credit cards. Nothing could be further from the truth.

They used to insist (don't know if that's still the case) that users had to submit bank account information (become "verified") after $2,000 in purchases. When I became verified, they switched my method of payment from credit card to bank transfer (cash transaction). I was unaware that they had made that switch and wound up being taken for the cost of an eBay auction when the seller turned out to be a fraudster. Paypal did nothing to help me get my money back. If the transaction had been on my credit card, the charge could have been disputed.

Once Paypal has your bank account info, they make bank transfer the default source of payment. I recommend ALWAYS selecting "more funding options" and choosing to make your payment by credit card. That way you're somewhat protected. (Paypal insists that users give up their credit card protections. I have disputed charges regardless, with no problem ... so far.)

When you choose to switch to credit card payment, an "are-you-sure" screen page comes up, with LIES about a bank transfer being just as safe as a credit card transaction. Don't believe them! They're just trying to save on credit card fees and couldn't care less about the person making the payment.

[SouthernDem2004]

49. Thanks for the advice. Did not know they switched payment. /nt

[bigluckyfeet]

47. Use Yahoo

Their auctions are now free of charge.

[WePurrsevere]

50. Yes! I posted about it on one of the auction boards I belong too..

and plan to list a few things there to see how it goes but a couple of the sellers that posted said there's no non paying bidder process so they got a lot of frivolous bids and no payment.

Also if I remember correctly Yahoo no longer has it's own payment system so I'd still need to use PayPal or other.

I used to list a bit on SellYourItem but they've closed up shop due to lack of business. It's too bad too.. they were a great seller friendly site... they listened to what members wanted and often changed things to meet their requests... unlike eBay.

[yorkiemommie1]

42. Good!!!

I cancelled my Paypal a while ago. I'd rather use money orders and wait a little longer for my ebay stuff than use Paypal.

[nine30]

46. 2009: "Google launches new Operating System"..

..Called "Doors"

[depakid]

51. Relevancy was their stock in trade

However, the way their algorithm works, it's fairly simple to "bomb' the results on their general search engine- and far right groups- and nutcases like creationists and anti-choice fanatics have learned the technique well.

I suspect that since Google is now a publicly traded (and VASTLY OVERVALUED) stock, they will follow whatever their market research dictates in order to add a "veracity" weight to their results- whether it be in the "news" section or anywhere else....

[kodi]

52. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

i can see it now: who do you believe Google or your lying eyes?