Top U.S. General Says Number of Capable Iraqi Battalions Drops to One

[Lochloosa]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB60MB97EE.html

Top U.S. General Says Number of Capable Iraqi Battalions Drops to One

WASHINGTON (AP) - The number of Iraqi battalions capable of combat without U.S. support has dropped from three to one, the top American commander in Iraq told Congress Thursday, prompting Republicans to question whether U.S. troops will be able to withdraw next year.

Gen. George Casey, softening his previous comments that a "fairly substantial" pull out could begin next spring and summer, told lawmakers that troops could begin coming home from Iraq next year depending on conditions during and after the upcoming elections there.

"The next 75 days are going to be critical for what happens," Casey told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The Bush administration says training Iraqi security forces to defend their own country is the key to bringing home U.S. troops. But Republicans pressed Casey on whether the United States was backsliding in its efforts to train Iraqis.

Ok...on to Plan B..or was that C

[sarcasmo]

1. Can you say CIVIL WAR.

[Connie_Corleone]

2. I think they're on plan R by now.

[DS1]

13. RUN AWAY

[ClintonTyree]

40. But have they tried the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?

For if you have not tried to smite thine enemy with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, thous hast not really tried to win said Holy War. And remember, after pulling the Holy Pin on The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, the counting shall be three. Not one, not two (except then proceeding to three) but three. Four, is right out!

[lumberjack_jeff]

68. Two decertified batallions? That's a lot of soiled armor. n/t

[expatriot]

3. I wonder if that one "capable" battalion has been moved

to a very, very secure undisclosed location heavily fortified with US Marines since now it no doubt has a big target sign on it.

[gratuitous]

4. Well, which is it?

Chimpy was just talking about how there more trained and qualified Iraqis than ever, ready to kill and die for the new Iraq. Now Gen. Casey is saying that the number of fully trained battalions is dwindling.

So, on Wednesdays we're progressing greatly, and we're just about to turn another corner. On Thursdays, the place is a hopeless mire, and the Pentagon needs more and more money to get the job done.

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate these guys?

[tabasco]

50. Back in the debates, Chimp said there were 100,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A battalion is 500 troops MAX. So the Chimp was only off by about 95,500, or 95.5%

Anybody who didn't realize then he is goddam liar is even stupider than the Chimp.

[moddemny]

58. I am not defending Chimp but here is some addtional info..........

There is only one "Level 1" trained battalion, the highest form of readiness, there is a good breakdown of the other levels at this site:

http://billroggio.com/archives/2005/08/amore_are_on_th.php

"Level 1 is the highest rating, where units are fully independent in all aspects. This includes being able to plan and conduct operations without coalition support. It also means the units sustain themselves through their own systems, handle all maintenance and have every piece of equipment needed to perform any mission.

Level 2 means units that are "in the lead" in the counterinsurgency effort. The units plan and execute their own operations, but they do require coalition support. This support is typically logistics, close-air support, indirect fire, medical evacuation and so on.

Level 3 indicates units fighting alongside coalition units. An Iraqi company will be embedded with a coalition battalion. The company gets support from the coalition and operates with the battalion.

Level 4 indicates units just forming."

There are a total of 110 battalions in various states of readiness.

[tabasco]

62. Chimp said "trained and ready" in the debates.

As a military officer, that means "Level 1" to me.

BTW - you are defending the Chimp. Nice try.

110 battalions?????? ONLY ONE can be counted on to operate independently. That is utter failure and Bush's statement during the debate was an outright LIE.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabasco]

72. Overcompensating a bit??

Your over-the-top response is inappropriate.

Over-acting never won anyone an Academy Award.

FYI - In the first debate in 2004, Chimpy said the Iraqis would have 200,000 trained troops by the end of 2005. I guess they better hurry up and get those 199,500 troops trained fast. Like in the next 3 months. LMAO.

I will now go fuck myself four times per your recommendation. Yeah, baby!

[moddemny]

73. Over the top? People can get upset when you accuse....

.......them of defending the mental midget (to call him chimp is an insult to chimps)

I had an almost legitimate overreaction........ ok so I went a little over the top...

I put the information up simply to post it, it had nothing to do with the mental midget.... I do believe the military is making the best due with limited resources in spite of what the mental midget says or does. The reason I overreact is that many people become reactionary (meaning seek the other side of an issue) about topics that involve Bush. Just because Bush says he is a Christian doesn't mean now I have to be an atheist. Even though Republicans may not like gays, people shouldn't expect me to start dating men if I have always been straight, I always preferred pussy exclusively before Bush came to office and I still like pussy exclusively even though he is in power. Whenever I F**k anything up the a**, it is always a female a**. Just because Bush thinks one way, doesn't mean I have to think the other automatically. If there is an objective source about something then it is just information, does not imply anything else. Bush screwed up Iraq and if I find information that tells me it is not a total f**k up I feel better. I want Iraq to succeed in spite of Bush so that the troops can come home and there is no disaster left behind. Saying there is only one battalion is a little misleading. I watched the original hearing when Mccain asked Abizaid the question about how many "level 1" battalions there are. I then went and looked up what the levels mean so I can have an intelligent perspective on it. We don't want to stoop to the level of dumb Bush voters do we? We're suppose to be more intelligent and not jump to conclusions or be easily swayed aren't we? When you are being objective though truth can cut both ways. If it doesn't suit what you expect it to be you have to accept that. The truth is the situation is very bad and by now maybe there should have been 50 or 100 level 1 battalions but because there is only one does not mean others aren't in the pipeline. Level 2 readiness the way it is stated above is not a completer loss, it means there is more progress being made that the original post would lead you to believe even if there is far more progress to be desired. If I am hoping for the best it doesn't mean I am defending Bush, it means I want more Iraqi troops ready so the U.S. can pull out and so Bush can no longer have an excuse to keep them their longer than is necessary. .

[pelsar]

76. u did fine...

adding real honest information...whatever ones political point of view is important...for those who have trouble digesting actual facts and then accuse the messenger of those facts as having a political bent...well its is they that are the mental midges....the propagandist, the small minds

[0007]

78. ......and then there's plactic and duct tape and colored coded

alerts.

IS it a wonder why folks on this planet believe junior is nuttier than a fruit cake?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

81. Whenever someone makes a post starting with "I am not defending Chimp but"

Peter Parker gets a hell of a headache.

[ClintonTyree]

59. Just a small misunderstimation....

by our Chimp in Chief. It could happen to anyone. MORE proof that this half-wit doesn't have a clue as to what's going on. He surrounds himself with "loyal" but very dangerous people who have their OWN agendas and tell the half-wit what they think he WANTS to hear, never coming close to the truth. The half-wit surely does live in a bubble where truth is filtered out like a virus. And some people voted for this deranged egomaniac TWICE! :banghead:
I see stupid people! :wow:

[jimshoes]

5. That's progress

in a neo-con, bizzaro world kind of way I guess.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

79. My sentiments exactly. nt.

[catnhatnh]

6. I guess I missed the two big media stories....

..describing the decimation of Iraqi Battalions by insurgents???

[rodeodance]

9. most likely they never existed in the first place.

[Dhalgren]

19. That's exactly what I thought! Why didn't anyone ask the

fat-assed place-keeper what the hell happened to the other two battalions? Over the course of one summer, the Iraqi "army" lost two battalions? And not one senator asked, "Um...General, where'd they go?"

Either the three battalions from last summer where a lie, or two whole battalions have deserted and, who knows, maybe we trained a whole bunch of insurgents to fight and kill US troops! Well, to be honest, I'd rather train insurgents to continue the war rather than take the British route and just disguise our own troops to carry out insurgent attacks, ourselves. But that's just me...

Excuse me for a moment. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHGGGGG!!!!!! *Ahem* Thank you...

[eddieb]

52. I think I know where they went.

If it was anything like Vietnam. They most definitely joined the insurgency! What better way to achieve their goal. Join the Iraq/american military get the training you need then desert.

[louis-t]

66. and we've spent millions training them.(sigh)

millions and millions.

[hatrack]

67. Just like we spent millions arming the VC

All the Regional Forces and Provincial Forces so lavishly armed at American expense in the early 1960s? They ended up arming the VC.

They were so ineptly led, poorly paid and badly supported that it was easier for the VC to impose "rent" - that is, each outpost or company simply paid a ransom of so many bullets or rifles each month to the VC units in the neighborhood - than to attack and defeat the South's forces in order to arm themselves. And officers and local politicians were happy to look the other way in exchange for the requisite bribes and considerations.

By early 1963, when Ap Bac took place, the VC had been able to replace homemade shotguns and ancient single-shot rifles with generally standardized small arms, particularly lots of Garands and at leat two BARs per company. Two years after that, they were able to rearm with both M-16s from decimated ARVN units - all through the indirect courtesy of Uncle Sam (though they preferred AKs).

Sounds like same shit, different country.

[louis-t]

70. Thanks, very interesting.

You'd think these brainiacs would learn something. I guess a hawk is a hawk is a hawk. Only half of their brains work. The Mr. Hyde half.

[MadisonProgressive]

7. The weight of incompetence is finally crashing down on this administration

It was always a matter of time, and the time is NOW!

[rodeodance]

8. Jr. said 3 in his news confer. yesterday. (I think).

[Gronk Groks]

20. I think this is the Pentagon's way of saying...

...that shrub is full of b*llsh*t. After all that has happened, the Pentagon may have to decided to communicate directly with the American Public instead of through the Mis-administration.

They could be as sick of the Chimperor as we are...

[hadrons]

21. could be ... I was wondering why Gen. Casey was so off script

[tainowarrior]

10. smokescreen: they ain't leaving folks

they'll keep dangling the "we're leaving IF this condition is met" stuff, and of course, that condition will never be met. They're planning to stay. There's only one way they will leave: the insurgents must kill more soldiers, which provokes more Americans here at home to abandon the war. It's the only way folks. These generals are not leaving without pressure.

[ClintonTyree]

43. I think it was Laura Logan (sp?) last night on CBS News.......

that said we would have to stay in Iraq for another 10 years in order for the Iraqis to be fully capable of defending themselves and their country. 10 years...hmmmmm...that puts us two more administrations into this futile, stupid war. And people are still loathe to compare this with Viet Nam? I for one and NOT willing to commit our fighting men and women for at least another 10 years for bush's incompetent bungling. Impeach bush now, then get the hell out of Iraq. End of story. When the dust settles over there and some sort of stable government forms, most likely an Islamic Theocracy, then send aid money to rebuild the country and fix what we fucked up. To keep this charade going for another 10 years or more and have it all blow up in our face after that is nonsense.
Lie after lie from this administration about the necessity and prosecution of this war is reason enough to throw the bums out NOW!

[MidwestTransplant]

11. Um were you lying then or are you lying now?

[Elwood P Dowd]

12. One battalion? That's only a few hundred troops.

In two years they can only come up with a few hundred combat capable troops? That means we will be there forever.....or at least until the oil is all gone.

[Lochloosa]

15. I was wondering just how many were in a battalion....look at this

United States Army
A battalion in the U.S. Army or Marine Corps is the smallest self-sustaining unit that can be deployed.

An American battalion has between 300 to 1000 Soldiers or Marines, and consists of several companies. It is commanded by a lieutenant colonel, with majors serving as the executive officer and the Operations Officer (S-3). The Adjutant (S-1), Intelligence (S-2), and Supply (S-4) officers are captains.

Three to four battalions form a brigade.

In the 1960s to the present day, a typical infantry battalion has five companies: Headquarters and Headquarters Company (HHC), which includes the battalion staff; A, B, and C Companies, and a Combat Support Company, which includes scouts, anti-tank, and mortar sections or platoons.

American Army mechanized infantry battalions and tank battalions, for tactical purposes, will cross-post companies to each other, forming a battalion-sized task force (TF).

During the American Civil War, an infantry or cavalry battalion was an ad hoc grouping of companies from the parent regiment (which had ten companies, A through K), except for certain regular infantry regiments, which were formally organized into three battalions of six companies each. After 1882, cavalry battalions were renamed squadrons and cavalry companies were renamed troops.

We are never leaving Iraq.......
:banghead:

[Strelnikov_]

37. Yep. 1000 Troops. Half The Size Of The NOLA Police Department

for a country the size of Kal-E-Fornia.

[JPZenger]

41. Could be smaller

Sometimes the term battalion is used for a group of 700 or 800 troops.

[ClintonTyree]

44. Last night on CBS News they said about 500 troops......

were battle tested and able to operate on their own with no US supervision. 500 Iraqi Troops. What the hell have we been DOING over there for two and a half years? :wtf:

[calimary]

53. The same thing we've been "doing" HERE for four years since 9/11 -

making ourselves "safer."

This is sickening. Just sickening.

I look around at my fellow Americans and ask - "...and you're OKAY WITH THIS?!?!?!??!?!"

:wtf:

[ClintonTyree]

61. I share your shock at our fellow Americans.....

I can't believe our fellow citizens are that far removed from reality or worse yet, just don't care. Some days I just feel like screaming at them from the top of my lungs, "WAKE THE FU%# UP"! This country is in sorry damned shape!

[JPZenger]

42. Only had 3,000 to start with???

The Iraqi Army was once the fifth largest in the world. I know some got killed, and some had to be removed because of their strong support for Saddam. However, after two years, you would think they could have more than 800 combat ready troops. This is a country with a population of well over 15 million (?). What the hell has happened to the hundreds of millions of dollars of U.S. money (and the assistance of other countries) that was supposed to be building, training and equipping a self-defense force in Iraq!

At this rate, my kids and not-yet-born grandkids will be drafted to defend Iraq.

[PinkyisBlue]

77. Hundreds of millions of dollars

Have you checked Bush's, Cheney's, Rove's, Chernoff's, Rummy's, Rice's, etc. back pockets? It would be interesting to check the personal wealth of Bushco members before and after this war. And it's billions of dollars for Iraq, not millions. I wonder where they are hiding their loot.

[Gnostic]

38. Exactly

That single battalion of a few hundred troops will always be there to guard BP/Exxon's interests and wells too!

[Bob3]

14. More Progress - this is going so well.

On a side note - I've compared the new Iraqi Army to the ARVN but let me say this for the ARVN - they had their huge share of troubles (corrupt officers, bad morale, equipment you name it) but they did have more than one capable battalion.

God what a cluster f**k - but what does anyone expect at this point.

[ClintonTyree]

45. The difference in Iraq being.........

the Iraqis don't want to fight for bush's fucking war.

[Ouabache]

49. Why it ain't nuthin' but a big ol' CAKEWALK !!

CAKEWALK, I tell ya. You betcha.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. But Dick Cheney just said things were looking up - at a fundraiser

And I recall hearing Rumsfeld saying that he is proud of the great numbers of successes we now have in Iraq!

Could they be lying to us?

[Javaman]

17. It's amazing how we keep training them only for them to leave and

join the civil war as fully trained soldiers. funny how that works...

colossal racist failure*.

[ClintonTyree]

64. You're correct........

in many cases our soldiers are training their own enemies. They get their weapons, some damned good training, a nice pair of boots and then they switch sides and start killing the soldiers that trained them. These people certainly ARE NOT the "ignorant savages" the Reich-wingers would like us to believe.

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Wow. Dropping faster than Bush's ratings. That's really bad.

[ihelpu2see]

22. I love how the admin. has placed the faux "Critical Periods"

the invasion, the "hand over of rule", the drafting of the Iraq Constitution, elections, the Constitution again, then more elections...... Each point so critical and no real palpable results from each moment.... what a FUBAR *

[Redstone]

23. Anyone surprised?

Not me.

Redstone

[OKNancy]

24. kick

[Judi Lynn]

25. Number of combat-ready Iraqi battalions drops by two-thirds: general

Last update: September 29, 2005 at 1:10 PM
Number of combat-ready Iraqi battalions drops by two-thirds: general
Associated Press
September 29, 2005 IRAQ0930.TROOPS


WASHINGTON — The number of Iraqi battalions capable of combat without U.S. support has dropped from three to one, the top American commander in Iraq told Congress Thursday, prompting Republicans to question whether U.S. troops will be able to withdraw next year.

Gen. George Casey, softening his previous comments that a "fairly substantial'' pull out could begin next spring and summer, told lawmakers that troops might begin coming home from Iraq next year depending on conditions during and after the upcoming elections there.
(snip)

The Bush administration says training Iraqi security forces to defend their own country is the key to bringing home U.S. troops. But Republicans pressed Casey on whether the United States was backsliding in its efforts to train Iraqis.

In June, the Pentagon told lawmakers that three Iraqi battalions were fully trained, equipped and capable of operating independently. On Thursday, Casey said only one battalion is ready.
(snip/...)

http://startribune.com/stories/484/5642019.html
(Free registration required)

[MadisonProgressive]

26. ROFLMAO!

[Missy M]

27. Do we ever hear any truths from either the bush administration or the....

top military regarding this war? What we are told changes from day to day and much of it seems to be outright lies.

[damntexdem]

28. Then it's time to pull out now.

The remaining battalion can cover our pull out. As things get worse, it will be harder to pull out without losing many troops in the process.

[bemildred]

29. He means zero, but that's embarassing. nt

[Kralizec]

30. Can you say VIETNAM in the DESERT? n/t

[Ilsa]

31. What we're doing isn't working, soooo, we're going to keep doing it.

isn't that one criterion for a diagnosis of "crazy"?

[Brother Buzz]

32. This general is lying through his teeth, or he's very misinformed...

I distinctly remember hearing Condoleezza Rice tell Congress back in January that we trained and equipped 120,000 Iraqi troops. Hey, even this dumb draftee that added "no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services, knows that that's closer to eight Divisions than one measly Battalion.

[bettyellen]

33. i bet we cut checks for 120,000 Iraqi troops... and Condi's dumb enough to

think they stuck around becasue we paid for them.

[sonicx]

34. Um, she's a liar?

What else is new?

[Kailassa]

60. I doubt that's the first untruth Condiliesalot has told Congress.

[tgnyc]

35. Wait a minute. How did we lose battalions?

Are they deserting? Are they being killed? Are they undergoing reverse training?

[Rex]

36. So we take 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

Shit that's nothing new.

[democratic veteran]

39. What else is new?

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!"
sorry
"Rummy, you're doing a heck of a job!"

[drone]

46. Mission Accomplished?

What ever happened to the Mission Accomplished banner on the aircraft carrier? Besides poor acting there were lots of smiles for the cameras. Besides, I thought we had won the war 5 times already?

[Bob K]

55. Mission accomplished banner?

I'll bet that banner was deep sixed once it was taken down. If so, it's a real shame. We need to recreate that banner and string it up in DC when we rout these thieving, lying bastards!

:patriot:

[zonkra]

47. This "capable Iraqi battalion"...

is it perchance to be designated the "Republican Guard"? That would seem appropriate.

[Dunvegan]

48. It's The Only One of 120 Battalions According to the Australians...

From the Austrailian newspaper "The Age";

http://www.theage.com.au/news/iraq/us-downgrades-iraqi-armys-readiness/2005/09/30/1127804661631.html

US downgrades Iraqi army's readiness
By Louise Roug
Baghdad
October 1, 2005

"Commanders who visited Capitol Hill told lawmakers that US troop reductions were needed in part to break an Iraqi "dependency" on American forces.

But, underlining the difficulty of disengaging, Army General George Casey, US commander in Iraq, said the number of Iraqi units at the highest level of readiness had fallen from three battalions in June to one.

Just one of the 120 US-trained Iraqi army and police battalions was able to operate without US forces, General Casey and General John Abizaid, the top US commander in the Middle East, told senators."

=====

Meanwhile...rumors has been going about the town where the market bombing took place that very few Sunnis had been about there lately.

I'm afraid I don't see where we're "stabilizing" Iraq at all.

[TrogL]

51. So the next number in this sequence can only be

...zero.

I thought one of the big purposes of this whole operation was to train Iraqi troops.

Anybody keeping score?

[onehandle]

54. On Franken they were talking about insurgents being in the "one".

Not so sleepy sleepers.

Making it zero or negative one.


Bush claimed that there were a Hell of a lot more than three.

Impeachment.

[jrw14125]

56. At this rate, only 362 more years to go...`

So at this rate, under the policy of "we stand down as they stand up," current US troop level (145,000?), and based on having trained only 1 Iraqi battalion (assume 1000 men) that can operate independently so far in the 2 1/2 years of occupation, we will have trained enough Iraqis to remove all U.S. troops from Iraq in approximately ***362 years*** (that is, if you don't take into account desertion, death, lack of equipment, and infiltration by insurgents, among other problems...)

[Dunvegan]

57. Well, jrw...

If you DO take into account desertion, death, lack of equipment, and infiltration by insurgents, among other problems...which has been the constant case so far.

I think we're inevitably headed rapidly to zero...and 1 is nearly totally ruled out.

[Left Turn]

63. One!!!

One capable battalion! We've had how long now? The key to getting out of Iraq is obviously training and arming their army to defend there own country. It sounds like they need to figure out a much better method of doing this though.

[AZBlue]

65. Did we misplace the other two??

Three's bad enough. Now we're going backwards. BACKWARDS. Only under George W...

So, let's recap: we can't find WMD's, we can't find the billions "lost" in the war efforts, we can't find who leaked Valerie Plame's name, we can't find buses to get people out of a flooded NO, we can't find two whole battalions in Iraq...ah Georgie, there's your legacy. "Lost" isn't a TV show - it's a reality show we live every day.

[IndianaGreen]

71. "training Iraqi security forces to defend their own country"

How Orwellian the use of language by our war criminal General Casey. Iraq was invaded and is being occupied by Bush's Imperial Army. "Defending Iraq" means to attack the foreign occupier.

[deadparrot]

74. U.S. Commander Doubts Iraq Troop Cutbacks

WASHINGTON - Sunni Arab opposition to
Iraq's draft constitution has increased the potential for instability and called into question U.S. hopes for substantial troop cuts next spring, the top U.S. commander in Iraq said Friday.

Gen. George Casey, speaking at a Pentagon news conference with Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, said his prediction in July that "fairly substantial" troop withdrawals could begin next spring was based on a key assumption: that satisfactory progress on the political and security fronts would continue.

"Now this constitution has come out, and it didn't come out as the national compact that we thought it was going to be," he said.

"And there's division there ... and that caused the situation to change a little bit," Casey said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051001/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq

[cliss]

75. Look at the photo of Casey sitting next to

RumsFailed. I wonder what he's smiling about? This is not a game, or a joke. There are lives on the line. People are still dying by the hundreds, and that bastard thinks it's a joke.

What's his combat experience? About the same as Rumsfools? = hardly any.

[Dunvegan]

80. I think Casey has thrown in the towel...

...and all he is saying is "Give Peace a Chance."

[barb162]

82. this makes zero sense.

How long ago was it that the one US military guy went in there to start training the Iraqis. How is it that this is all we have so far? I saw this ,ilitary guy on TV a few weeks ago and he was just evading the question of why there is only one group trained.

[Tight_rope]

83. Hell it was never more then one...They were just lying about the others!

:spank: