France declares state of emergency

[skooooo]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1862479,00.html

France today declared a state of emergency to allow the introduction of localised curfews in an attempt to end the wave of riots which has flared across the country for 12 nights.

President Jacques Chirac announced the extreme measure - which bans the movement of people and vehicles after dark and allows police to set up roadblocks - after a crisis meeting of his Cabinet this morning.

In their now routine assessment of the previous night's carnage, police reported 330 arrests, 12 officers hurt and 1,173 vehicles burned in about 300 towns last night. This compares to 1,408 cars burnt on the previous night.

The focus of the trouble has shifted from Paris to other major cities, with the worst violence reported in Toulouse and Lille, where a crèche was torched in a previously tranquil working class neighbourhood.

[thinkingwoman]

1. What took them so long?

Seriously. 12 nights before they finally start dealing with the problem. Did they think this would all just peter out by itself? :eyes:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. I believe that is exactly what they thought.

Or what they had hoped for, at least. The problem with a big crackdown is that eventually one or more of the rioters or an innocent bystander is going to get beaten / shot / die in police custody, which will only serve to further inflame the situation.

[phusion]

26. As someone here on DU said...

It's no coincidence that "bureaucracy" is a French word. :)

[thinkingwoman]

38. LOL I hadn't seen that

So true. So very true! :rofl:

[barb162]

45. I think it is they can't admit it to themselves they should have

declared it a few days ago ( and also what you say)

[GHOSTDANCER]

75. lol

<>

[barb162]

47. That's what I am wondering too. They stand around and say

to each other "Is this really happening, maybe it won't happen tonight

[Name removed]

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[Flagg]

59. Sarkozy orders deportation of foreign rioters

Sarkozy orders deportation of foreign rioters


PARIS, Nov 9 (AFP) - Interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy on Wednesday issued orders for non-French rioters convicted in the wave of urban violence to be deported -- a measure directed at youths of Arab and African background living in the high-immigrant neighbourhoods involved in the unrest.

Sarkozy told prefects, or regional governors, to apply the order to foreigners including those who have valid French residency visas.

He told parliament that "120 foreigners, not all of whom are here illegally, have been convicted" of taking part in the nightly rampages that have occurred since October 27.

"I have asked the prefects to deport them from our national territory without delay, including those
who have a residency visa," he said.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=25&story_id=25193&name=Sarkozy+orders+deportation+of+foreign+rioters

[Name removed]

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[xchrom]

2. i hope all this ends soon.

i love france -- and i hate to see them all go through this.

[rodeodance]

4. to end-the 'haves' in France need to listen to the 'have not's"--and take

action on incorporating them into society--they are now disenfranches citizens (for the most part).

[Nederland]

14. The rioters don't want to be incorporated into French society

They want their own little piece of France where they control everything. Oh, and they want the rest of France to pay for it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

15. Do you tar everyone in the suburbs with that brush?

Or just the rioters?

[Nederland]

16. Read what I wrote

I think it's obvious enough.

[marshall]

17. Ottoman empire?

I heard that they want a system like the Ottoman Empire, where differing ethnic groups live in the same location but have their own governments that overlap with each other.

What happened to the Ottoman Empire?

[Bridget Burke]

22. The Ottoman Empire lasted from 1299 to 1922.

How long did the French Empire last? The rioters are mostly descended from former French Imperial subjects.

How long will the US Empire last?

They ain't making empires like they used to.

[madeline_con]

44. Bread and circuses! eom

[Name removed]

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[theboss]

72. They made their bed....

France wanted to be a liberal, socialist paradise for those deemed French enough. They did it on the backs of a permanent underclass.

Having said that, I probably would have pulled a Mayor Daley on Day Two of this nonsense and issued a shoot to kill order. But I'm crazy.

[rodeodance]

3. France's Fed response is like Jr's fed. response to Katrina. it ignored

it till they had to.

[Name removed]

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[sleipnir]

5. Too little, too late. There's no hope but bringing in troops, now.

France has really dropped the ball on this riot, they're pretty much in a tough spot. I doubt that a curfew will quell the rioting, it might have after the first day or so. Actually, all the measures they are taking now should have been taken after the first car was burned. I seriously don't see this getting resolved without the use of the army, sadly.

[RegexReader]

42. Troops to get the French into a militarized inertia

I think that the start of these riots are too convenient. I would not be surprised when it outs that these riots were agitated and supported by * & Co. to get the French on board for an attack on Iran. Embarrass President Chirac into committing troops and, then, they're down the slippery slope.

Hopefully, the French can create some programs that will help deescalate situation to avoid any more violence.


RegexReader
$USA =~ s/Republican/Democrat/ig;

[madeline_con]

46. So, DUH-bya had 2 kids electrocuted to get France on board?

:shrug: ????

[the other one]

7. Vive le Revolucion!

Yeehaw!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. That can be taken one of several ways...

...and I'm not sure I like any of them.

[Taxloss]

9. I agree. n/t

[Kralizec]

10. A Worldwide Revolution is needed. This is evidence of that. But this is

merely a symptom of the need. It's not the real thing.

There's no organization, no focus. They're just rampaging right now. But who knows, organization has emerged in such instances.

Word.

[Taxloss]

11. No, I disagree.

As a Fabian, I feel that revolution is the wrong approach. You cannot conjure up a fair society overnight through violence. Previous attempts to do so have been very unpleasant indeed. These rioters are not progressive.

[Kralizec]

30. Who ever said Revolutions *have* to be violent? n/t

[Taxloss]

33. These riots are certainly violent.

And many revolutions have been very violent.

[hogwyld]

35. The global revolution

Has begun. Time for all of the repressed people of the world to rise up and shun their white masters! Rich people will be poor again, and everyone will be equal. Take all the money, and split it up equally so that everyone is on the same level. There will be no envy or jeolosy, everyone will have the same standard of living.

[Kralizec]

37. ¡Vive!

[rinsd]

71. LOL

Envy and jealosuy do not exist solely in the concept of material wealth.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. This is not evidence of the need for a worldwide revolution.

This is evidence of the need for France to change its domestic policy to accomodate the people they have legally allowed to enter their country, nothing more.

[phusion]

27. Civilization and its discontents. n/t

[phusion]

28. yes

I agree.

A New Tribal Revolution.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

13. Update

Chirac attacked over handling of crisis
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1103AP_France_Curfew_Opposition_FR1.html

PARIS -- French President Jacques Chirac's political rivals criticized his decision Tuesday to declare a state of emergency as ill-suited to quelling rioting. Others faulted Chirac for not taking a more prominent public role in managing the crisis. "It's not enough to announce a curfew. There have to be security forces on the ground who can enforce it," said former Socialist Prime Minister Laurent Fabius.

Speaking on France-Inter radio, Fabius called curfews "repressive."

He and others on the political left said the government had not offered enough support to troubled suburbs and called for new social support and jobs programs.

Communist Party leader Marie-George Buffet warned that curfews could fan unrest by enflaming the rioters, adding that the government was "incapable of stopping these youths."

[skooooo]

18. I bet Bill O'Reilly is eating all this up.

[saigon68]

23. He was angry when the Blacks rioted led by MLK

All American racists blamed LAZY USELESS BLACKS for the riots Kids

[skooooo]

31. MLK never led riots!

But I'm sure O'Reilly would like us to believe he did.

[saigon68]

32. sorry you are right --- he never threw a fire bomb

The Racists wanted the SHEEP to believe MLK urged the youths to torch the place

[barb162]

51. MLK... too bad they aren't using his peaceful protest techniques

MLK was a great, great man

[Name removed]

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[stonedpika]

19. The French are in a tough spot

The ones with work are "maxed out" funding the much vaunted social system.

The ones on the social system (including my grandmother who is retired and on a pension) are upset because their benefits have been reduced since the available money to fund the system has been going down systematically for 10 years or so.

And now the rioters are asking for their piece of the pie.

This is a zero sum game, as De Villepin and Chirac offer money to quell the unrest where will it come from? who gets the shaft?

Someone here will pay the piper, one way or another...

[Name removed]

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[rman]

69. Grandmother who worked all her life, or "14 y/o with nothing better to do"

All suffer equally from cuts in social services.
It's just that you can't expect grandma to actually riot in the streets because of that.

[Name removed]

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[madeline_con]

48. "Marie-George Buffet"

That's "Boo-Fay".

[slackmaster]

20. EVERYONE MUST STOP RIOTING AT ONCE...

Or we shall declare a state of emergency AGAIN!

:nuke:

[smirkymonkey]

55. Touche!

"Go away or I'll shall taunt you a second time-a"


:applause:

[NashVegas]

21. I Don't Blame Them

These riots are being organized. This is not some spontaneous 'will of the people' thing. There are actual agitators.

[hogwyld]

39. Not really

I guess it depends on how you describe organized. I, myself, don't consider a bunch of people IMing each other into a instamob, organized. This has been a "will of the people" demonstration. Albeit poor, immigrant people. We are seeing world altering changes, and I don't think it will stop with France.

[yellowcanine]

24. Could be open season on brown people in France. Better not be DWB

(driving while brown)

[Chicago Democrat]

25. Sarkozy is a fascist and racist

and I hate this stupid government. Bring back the Socialists. Bring in the Communists! Marchon! Marchon!

[Name removed]

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[fshrink]

29. If a bunch of "scums and riff-raffs" can do that,

one can wonder what would be needed if they started to explicit their critique.

[pitohui]

34. what took him so long?

i was starting to get the impression that he was taking lessons in crisis management from drownie brownie

[Indy Lurker]

36. Phase 2 will be Surrender

Isn't it about time the French Government caved in and met the rioters demands?

[barb162]

50. And their demands are what again?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

52. Sarkozy's resignation, aparently.

Not that this will do much.

[bionaut111]

40. These aren't "riots". This is social rebellion

These aren't "riots". This is social rebellion, directed at decades of French imperial rule, and ultra-capitalist and racist policymaking at home.


The mainstream press has been telling Europeans that "riots" have broken out in the Parisian Suburbs (Banlieu) this week. In calling them "riots", the popular imagination likens them to fires and other sorts of largely uncontrollable disasters. It's as if the French are merely being faced with an outbreak of civil unrest, and that someone from the ranks of the government will most assuredly figure out how to weather the storm within the coming days.

These aren't "riots". This is social rebellion, directed at decades of French imperial rule, and ultra-capitalist and racist policymaking at home

http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=3394

[Nederland]

41. Ultra-Capitalist?

France? That's not how my Parisan cousin descibes it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

53. Disagree.

These aren't "riots"

Yes they are:

ri·ot
n.

1. A wild or turbulent disturbance created by a large number of people.
2. Law. A violent disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled for a common purpose.

So whatever else they may be, they are indeed riots.

This is social rebellion

I'm curious to understand how you define that term.

directed at decades of French imperial rule

Well, it's directed at France's treatment of its immigrant population, which could be considered quite imperious, but also quite racist, classist, and elitist.

and ultra-capitalist

We are talking about France here, right? I know of no economist who would describe france as "ultra-capitalist."

The mainstream press has been telling Europeans that "riots" have broken out in the Parisian Suburbs

Actually, the mainstream press has been telling the whole world that riots have broken out in over 300 French towns, primarily in low-income slums occupied by immigrants and their children.

In calling them "riots", the popular imagination likens them to fires and other sorts of largely uncontrollable disasters.

You are parsing this in an extremely confusing way. If anything, the mainstream Eurpoean press has constantly pointed out France's inability to integrate its immigrant population. Which newspapers are you reading?

It's as if the French are merely being faced with an outbreak of civil unrest, and that someone from the ranks of the government will most assuredly figure out how to weather the storm within the coming days.

Actually, every single account I've read in the mainstream press has been extremely harsh towards the French government for:

a) Letting this problem fester to the point where violence was inevitable

b) Being completely impotent in the face of a serious threat to the peace. Again, which newspapers are you reading?

And as for your "alternative" media link, I prefer to get my news from sources that don't propogate the claim that there is no link between HIV and AIDS, and that do not list prisonplanet and Tom Flocco as some of their "favorite" links. But that's just me.

As for this being some kind of honourable "social rebellion," I'd bet you would be singing a different tune if it were your car that had been torched. The rioters don't even have that much support amongst their own neighbors. Some rebellion.

[belle]

67. Dunno about "ultra-capitalist." but there is definitely an underclass...

A lot of old shit fueling this, too, I would tend to think; and some newer shit. These are mainly immigrant workers, the "beurs" (Arabs), many of whom come from former French colonies. Add that history to the basic crappy conditions and ill treatment they're getting as the underclass, and (I'm guessing, but) the radical Islam movement and the backlash it's brought (and the backlash to *that,* and so on and so on), and, well, there you are.

and then of course violent class-based uprising in the streets is not exactly new to France...hell, it's practically a tradition, really...

[theboss]

73. Capitalist implies that this is simply economic in nature

I think it is more about cultural integration. Granted, there is a large economic factor in this since France does not really let you participate economically unless you subscribe to the dominant "French" culture. But it's really about religious and cultural resentment on both sides.

[barb162]

77. I think your'e hitting it.

There is a problem with assimiliation and I don't know if it's the French, the immigrants or both. The differences may be too great to overcome? But the rioting, I think, will make the assimilation process even harder now.

[Name removed]

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[madeline_con]

43. " bans the movement of people and vehicles after dark ..."

People who work at night, etc get a pass to carry on, or what?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

54. This is France.

People barely work during the daytime.

:hide:

[savemefromdumbya]

49. give you 3 guesses who is behind the French riots?

not rupert Murdoch!

[radwriter0555]

61. uh how about 14 year old kids with scooters and nothing better to do?

This isn't about social unrest, this is kids with too much time on their hands. That's IT.

[rman]

65. Sure, the miserable living conditions were not created by the government

One thing is for sure: we won't hear much of the rioters' side of the story in the mainstream media.

[belle]

68. You don't think it can be both? Because while I agree that not all the

activity is "revolutionary," (hell, probably most of it, if by "revolutionary" you mean with a conscious goal in mind), twelve nights of rioting is way beyond bored kids.

[fedsron2us]

74. Counting burnt out vehicles is a poor measure of revolution

since these are being torched every day of the year in areas of urban deprivation. According to the attached article 28,000 French vehicles have gone up in smoke since the beginning of the year.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/11/09/opinion/edaudouard.php

In fact France's record on car burning looks somewhat better than its neighbour the UK where an estimated 200 cars a day (73,000 per year !!!) meet the same fate.

http://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/carfires.php
http://www.freefoto.com/browse.jsp?id=21-15-0

In some ways the recent riots are just the continuation of a protest tune that has been playing for years. All that has happened is that the French kids have turned up the volume loud enough for it finally to reach the ears of those in power

[callady]

76. That's not "IT"

Learn the history of the situation. Here's a start:
WHY IS FRANCE BURNING? The rebellion of a lost generation

If France's population of immigrant origin -- mostly Arab, some black -- is today quite large (more than 10% of the total population), it is because there was a government and industrial policy during the post-World War II boom years of reconstruction and economic expansion which the French call "les trentes glorieuses" -- the 30 glorious years -- to recruit from France's foreign colonies laborers and factory and menial workers for jobs which there were no Frenchmen to fill. These immigrant workers, primarily from North Africa, were desperately needed to allow the French economy to expand due to the shortage of male manpower caused by two World Wars, which killed many Frenchmen, and slashed the native French birth-rates too. Moreover, these immigrant workers (especially Moroccans, particularly favored in the auto industry) were favored by industrial employers as passive and unlikely to strike (in sharp contrast to the highly political Continental French working class and its militant, largely Communist-led unions) and cheaper to hire. In some industries, for this reason, literacy was a disqualification -- because an Arab worker who could read could educate himself about politics and become more susceptible to organization into a union. This government-and-industry-sponsored influx of Arab workers (many of whom then saved up to bring their families to France from North Africa) was reinforced following Algerian independence by the arrival of the Harkis.

<snip>

Moreover, those Harki families who were saved, often at the initiative of individual military commanders who refused to obey orders not to evacuate them, once in France were parked in unspeakable, filthy, crowded concentration camps for many long years and never benefited from any government aid -- a nice reward for their sacrifices for France, of which they were, after all, legally citizens. Their ghettoized children and grandchildren, naturally, harbor certain resentments -- the Harki tragedy is still an open wound for the Franco-Arab community.

France's other immigrant workers were warehoused in huge, high-rise low-income housing ghettos -- known as "cités" (Americans would say "the projects") -- specially built for them, and deliberately placed out of sight in the suburbs around most of France's major urban agglomerations, so that their darker-skinned inhabitants wouldn't pollute the center cities of Paris, Lyon, Toulouse, Lille, Nice and the others of white France's urban centers, today encircled by flames. Often there was only just enough public transport provided to take these uneducated working class Arabs and blacks directly to their jobs in the burgeoning factories of the "peripherique" -- the suburban peripheries that encircled Paris and its smaller sisters -- but little or none linking the ghettos to the urban centers.

Now 30, 40, and 50 years old, these high-rise human warehouses in the isolated suburbs are today run-down, dilapidated, sinister places, with broken elevators that remain unrepaired, heating systems left dysfunctional in winter, dirt and dog-shit in the hallways, broken windows, and few commercial amenities -- shopping for basic necessities is often quite limited and difficult, while entertainment and recreational facilities for youth are truncated and totally inadequate when they're not non-existent. Both apartments and schools are over-crowded (birth control is taboo in the Muslim culture the immigrants brought with them and transmitted to their children, and even for their male grandchildren of today --who've adopted hip-hop culture and created their own French-language rap music of extraordinary vitality (which often embodies stinging social and political content) -- condoms are a no-no because of Arab machismo, contributing to rising AIDS rates in the ghettos.

UPDATE MONDAY MORNING, NOVEMBER 7: Far from losing steam, the rebellion is growing and spreading to cities in the south previously untouched. Sunday night in France saw 1408 vehicles burned, some 250 more than the previous night (according to a dispatch from Agence France Presse), while 34 policemen were injured by shotgun fire and stones when they were attacked by 200 rioters in Grigny, a suburb south of Paris. In the southern city of Toulouse, police fired tear gas grenades to push back club-wielding rioters. Violent attacks were also reported in Orleans, Rennes and Nantes.

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/11/why_i...


website: http://direland.typepad.com/