Song Sites Face Legal Crackdown (Lyrics, Guitar Tabs)

[NashVegas]

The music industry is to extend its copyright war by taking legal action against websites offering unlicensed song scores and lyrics.

The Music Publishers' Association (MPA), which represents US sheet music companies, will launch its first campaign against such sites in 2006.

MPA president Lauren Keiser said he wanted site owners to be jailed.

Guitar licks and song scores are widely available on the internet but are "completely illegal", he told the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4508158.stm

Is there an entertainment lawyer in the house who can tell me how illegal it is for:

Someone to figure out the necessary guitar chords and keys for a particular song and share them with someone? That's how most ground-floor guitar tab sites operate.

Someone to figure out the lyrics of a song and share them with someone?

Republishing for profit - ie, sites with advertisers, absolutely, I'll give you as illegal and unethical. They're also annoying as all hell.

But I seriously hope he's not talking about going after fan sites. And I'd love to see them try to nail anyone who's ever posted a tab on rec.music.whatever.

[MaineDem]

1. Oh wow

I agree with you...commerical sites are one thing but sharing tabs and lyrics shouldn't be illegal.

That would be the same as loaning someone a record, tape, or CD, I would think.

[mattclearing]

2. I agree that the sites should be legal.

However, a lot of lyrics sites have annoying pop-ups and banner ads that will even attempt to install spyware and adware on your machine. Fan sites are one thing, but the first twenty sites that come up when you google a song lyric are loaded with junk, and are clearly making money. Fuck them.

[Deja Q]

3. OH FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!! Fuckin' fascists.

So now I won't be able to find song lyrics without paying 60 cents?!

V1
And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you

woah!

Chorus:

Sign Sign everywhere a sign
Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign

V2
And the sign said anybody caught trespassing would be shot on sight
So I jumped on the fence and yelled at the house, Hey! what gives you the right
To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in
If God was here, he'd tell you to your face, man you're some kinda sinner

Repeat Chorus:

Bridge:

Now, hey you Mister! can't you read, you got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no you can't eat, you ain't suppose to be here
Sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside Uh!

V3
And the sign said everybody welcome, come in, kneel down and pray
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all,
I didn't have a penny to pay, so I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said thank you Lord for thinking about me, I'm alive and doing fine

Repeat Chorus
Repeat Chorus

[acmavm]

4. Seems like the music industry is getting overly greedy. I can understand

the copying of music without paying for it, but making people go to jail or be fined just for publishing printing and publishing the lyrics or the notes that it takes to play them? How much more greedy can you get. Unless it's to have spies stand outside peoples windows so that they can call the police if they try to play the music in their homes or whatever.

Next we'll be having to pay a fee everytime we turn on the radio or flip to VH1 or MTV. Wonder if they'll install coin slots in the cable equipment?

[Deja Q]

6. I can't understand why CDs cost $20 each.

Many DVDs cost under $15... and that's sound AND video.

Download services are no better; it's ultimately cheaper to buy the CD and rip the music to your own PDA without being locked into a proprietary system that tells YOU how to use what YOU bought.

[hobbit709]

7. It ain't the musicians

that are getting the money. CDs cost less to make than cassette tapes did and when CDs first came out they cost twice what a tape did at the same time. I know quite a few musicians and they'll tell you flat out that they got no big increase in their royalty payments from the increased price of a CD. So who's getting the money?

[Occulus]

22. If they could nail someone for humming a tune, they would

Gosh, I wonder if RealCountryMusic or whatever his RIAA-defending name is has anything to say about this...

[MilesColtrane]

5. Legally, I think the MPA has a case

as payment is supposed to be made to the publishing company (who pays the compser royalties) any time a particular song is reproduced. But, it will be largely unenforceable, until ISPs make it standard practice to turn over their logs to any company that's got a copyright beef.
There has always been a healthy underground trade in fake books as long as musicians have been around.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. The law is an ass

The RIAA bought and paid for those laws it has a case under. (The MPAA is the Motion Picture Association of America; it is also relevant.) Legal intent, in regards to Intellectual Property law, has been perverted to the point where it's a form of politically purchased privilege, not actually law.

My "advice"? Get a web-spider program like Teleport and download as many lyrics and tabs sites as you can. There are also tons (actually, gigabytes) of "fake books" on P2P systems.

We need to come up with several legal "games", much as the industry has, designed to harass the industry and suck enough money out of it to finance ongoing free-speech programs like the EFF. At the same time, when we ARE compelled to pay, we need to make sure that as much of the money as possible goes to the artist, not to the greedheads. And a class-action against the RIAA (as an illegal cartel) would also be good. (Ditto for the MPAA).

In short, we need to do a lot of high-tech legal monkeywrenching; and not just with audio, but with video and software, too. That means the SPA and the MPAA, and Microsoft, too. And forget about the losses so far; hammering away at the system will change it. It won't be an overnight change, but it will happen. Sadly, most musicians and fans are complete slackers, and have been for decades. Organizing them is one of the great undone tasks of progressive politics -- and that's where we can have an effect.

Over time, an artist-centric system of audited micropayment for downloads should evolve, charging from zero (for a mid-fidelity copy) to maybe a quarter (for a lossless, full-fidelity copy). The "Music Business" would evolve to be about merchandise and live performance, not the shuffling of paper and filing of lawsuits. People like Ani DeFranco would be the new business leaders, not ponytailed Armani models like that perky statuette that married Mariah Carey long ago. (And don't even get me started on Jack Valenti!)

The RIAA and MPAA gave us tremendous improvements in artistic technology -- long ago. They can return to that proper function again. But they'll have to be pushed, and fought, and the lawyers that now infest them will have to be hit hard in the bank accounts.

--p!

[KurtNYC]

24. David Boies argued that the expansion of copyright laws

threatens "to make us spectators to our own culture" and are historically unprecedented.

They continue to expand copyright protection. Disney successful got the most recent extension for Mickey Mouse and other characters which one could argue are now as much a part of the general American culture and history as Ben Franklin.

Our national anthem btw, is new lyrics put to a British tune. Our NATIONAL ANTHEM is a copyright violation!

[NashVegas]

15. Lyrics.com Isn't Exactly Underground

When I was a kid and there was a lyric I couldn't figure out (and they weren't in the lp liner sheet) I'd go to a store that sold music instruments and scores and look it up - if they had the music for that album. I wouldn't have bought the book, couldn't afford it and anyway I didn't even own an instrument.

In my 20s, when I had a guitar, I would sometimes buy a book, anthologies, usually, or, when I couldn't figure out something for myself, learn chords for particular songs from friends who already knew and played them.

Aside from record sales, it's the publishing of the material - these books - where publishers make their real money. And in my recollection they cost a lot more than the albums did - that's what made anthologies a bargain.

I wouldn't have a problem with publishers going after those sites that are commercially re-publishing the music w/out being contracted to. But it would be very short-sighted and possibly VERY hypocritical of the MPA to go after the non-comms.

A record label with a publishing arm stands to eventually make money from budding musicians - and it would fly in the face of their attempts to campaign for more federal money for school music programs. It just might give someone - like, me - the idea that their main reason for pushing for more music education is to drive sales more than it is to bring something to those students' lives.

[gratuitous]

8. Well, it's about time

I know that finding the right lyrics and chords to a song that's no longer in print (such as the Phil Ochs songbook) just stops me from getting the royalties I so richly deserve. See, I discovered the G chord a few years back, and while my copyright seems tangled up in some kind of government bureaucracy snafu, I'm sure that it will all be straightened out soon.

So musicians, every time you play a G chord, if you could send me my royalty (if you hold the chord for more than one bar, the royalty goes to 1.5 times the base royalty -- see my attorney for a full listing of rates), I'd sure be grateful.

[Nordmadr]

9. Damn, I must've played the G chord at least 100 times last night.

Where do I send the check?

I have to go get that C major 9 chord copyrighted. I'll be rich...just like Daffy Duck...I'm rich.....I'm wealthy...I'm financially secure...Woohooo

Olafr

[SoFlaJet]

23. OK I'm copywriting a cool one I was using yesterday

the Bb9-you play a Bb on the A string leave open the D then play 1st frets on the G and B strings leaving muted both E strings-I was learning Burt Bachrach's This Guy's In Love With You-one of those guilty pleasure songs ya learn for yourself-to the guy with the G chord rights playin'friggin Dylan songs alone will break ya finacially

[Don Claybrook]

12. Your G chord infringes on my copyrights

See, I discovered the natural B and D notes some time ago. I think I should get 2/3 of your proceeds, unless of course we're talking about a 7th or altered chord, in which case we can adjust accordingly.

You may wish to check with the copyright holder of the note F too, if you wish to avoid trouble from other quarters.

[Nordmadr]

26. This is all too funny. From here on out I am copyrighting any

string muting as well that uses the lower part of the palm in the muting motion with a tap.

Olafr

[NJCher]

11. imitating RIAA tactics

This should earn them the enmity of the music loving public. Just like RIAA has so richly reaped a harvest of hate and contempt, so should MPA.

RIAA's product disappeared. CDs are an outmoded technology and the mp3 is the future of music. But RIAA still wants you to buy a CD so they can make a huge profit.

Gerd Leonard and his co-writer, Kusek, have published a chart in their book The Future of Music . It shows that the artist gets only 7 or 8 per cent of the profit from a CD. The way this is done is to stick the artists with the costs of promotion. By the time the sales are in, there is little or nothing left for the artist.

Here's their site and if you're interested in how the music and copyright issues are shaking out, it's worth checking out on a regular basis:

http://gerdleonhard.typepad.com/




Cher

[NashVegas]

17. I Still Buy CDs

And will continue to.

If nothing else, there is a generational difference between people who will continue to prefer albums and those who would be happy to go and stay digital.

A CD, if you mistreat it can get messed up, but it can't be erased. You'll never lose a CD forever due to hard drive failure. Even vinyl still has a market.

We did a survey among website users for a radio station that serves 25-49 year olds, with a core demo of 35-45 and found that 95% of respondants had no real interest in buying an iPod or other digital music player. The older you get in the spectrum, the more people were happy to continue listening to albums, listening to the songs in the order the artist intended them to be listened to. They have less need to be in control of their listening experience as long as the product is good.

[SkiGuy]

13. How is a tab considered a score

Perhaps I would agree (maybe) if sheet music is downloaded, but not tabs.
But good luck to them anyway. You'll never be able to stop posts on usenet.

[princehal]

14. Great

This till kill anyone playing anyone song. The whole idea of music is that it is something we can all sing and enjoy. They want to turn everything into an entity to make money. No more singing "How Many Roads" at a fireside?

[Zodiak]

16. This is out of control

Seriously...we gave them their inch, and they predictably decided to take a mile.

All hail corporate power, the ultimate "rule-of-law" in our culture.

[booksenkatz]

18. I have lyrics posted at my fan site

It's one of the most popular areas of my website. I've been told several times by friends that I shouldn't have lyrics posted, that it's illegal, etc., but with so many lyrics sites out there, I didn't think it would be a problem. Now I see that it might indeed be a problem. Should I remove the lyrics now, or wait until I get nailed by the fascists? I don't have any money to fight them with. It's not a high profile site, I only get about 1000 unique visitors per day, so maybe no one will care...?

[woodsprite]

21. I'd say take them down, BUT put up something in it's place.

Like a really big note explaining why you did it with links to articles about what they're trying to do to the fans. The little guy is exactly who they'll go after. Just like in the music download/server cases.

[trogdor]

19. Music scores are copyrighted.

Same as novels. Reprint John Grisham's latest novel on your website, and see how quick the publisher comes down on your ass. That's why DU limits quotes of anything to four paragraphs - to keep our collective asses out of trouble. It's just easier bandwithwise to print lyrics and sheet music than it is someone's best-selling novel.

Back in the pre-Ed Sullivan days on television (from V-E day to about 1949), the only music you could play on the air was 19th century folk music because anything published since about 1890 was controlled by ASCAP, and they weren't ready to grant licenses to the then-infant television industry. So you got things like game shows and sporting events instead.

So you want sheet music? Go to the music score and buy it, or figure out the chords yourself from your CD. Or improvise; someone needs to re-invent rock and roll anyway.

[SoFlaJet]

20. I'm a working musician and I USE these sites

granted I can't friggin understand tabs but evry once in a while I get help with chord structure to song I wanna learn.They're evn right sometimes-sometimes...mostly I still end up doing it the old school way-guitar on lap and pressing rewind.But yea screw them all-IMO music should be pay optional-and I'm a (poor) songwriter who feels honored when people like my tunes.

[Exiled in America]

25. I am about to vown ever to pay for a piece of music ever again

I fucking hate these guys with every fiber of my being. I'd rather send money directly to a band, and STEAL all the music than pay this fucking ASSHOLES a goddamn penny for anything.

I think what makes me so angry is not only what dicks they are but also how unbelievably stupid it is. If the Music industry had the opposite attitude, one of openness and cooperation. They would have found plenty of ways to make tons of profit off all this new technology opportunity in a reasonable way that most of us would have no problem living with.

These guys are trying to stop innovation and technological progress and I can only hope that at some point the goverment steps in and tells them to get the fuck over themselves (not likely.)

[NJCher]

27. The Dem senators are the worst on this issue

They would have found plenty of ways to make tons of profit off all this new technology opportunity in a reasonable way that most of us would have no problem living with.

Yeah, but that would have required flexibility and brains. They're so used to having the dough roll in for doing nothing--think about it, they profited tremendously when everyone switched from vinyl to tape. And from tape to CD. Finally they are challenged and their reaction is like that of a child's.

U.S. copyright laws are an anachronism. They desperately need to be brought up to date. Other countries are doing that but oh no, not here. Not in the land of the "free," which means they are free to bilk every last dime out of us that they can.

The worst part of all this is that it is the Dem senators who are the worst on this topic. Check out the sponsors of the Copyright Infringement Act (thankfully dead) if you don't believe me. Hillary. Leahy. Echhh, makes me sick.

Man, we have so far to go to have a government that is even remotely that of the people's.




Cher

[Igel]

28. Most of the tabs are illegal; not all. Some are out of copyright;

but then again, "guitar tabs" has apparently come to mean only rock or jazz guitar, so perhaps my comment is a bit nice.

On the other hand, imagine this: You're a poet or playwright. You have a deal with a publisher, and you live by selling books, along with the occasional performance. Selling the printed version is fine, but you're also living on licensing the performance of the works. That's a problem, because you can't monitor every little community repertory company, but that's ok. Then you find that sales are also dropping. People can't afford to buy them, you think, so there's a problem.

But then you find there are internet sites with your works. They claim it's "OK" because nobody actually posted GIFs or TIFFs of your work, or even "Gutenberged" them. No, one person read them, and the other typed them into an HTML or text document. Or perhaps somebody rented a recording of a licensed performance, and transcribed that, even including stage or performance directions. That only works if you believe that printed works are actually visual art: you don't copyright the words, but the shape of the page, the font, the relative albedo of each page and the layout. But that's not what copyright law for the last couple hundred years have said. You copyright the words. In music, you copyright not the shape of the notes, but the notes, the chord structure and melodic lines (with due provision for transcribing and limited re-harmonizing or orchestration).

Now, I disagree with where fair use provisions are going, and the length of time that corporations have for preserving copyright. But the distinction between a tab version and the printed music with fingers is truly trivial. One does not gain the right to publish a copyrighted work simply by adding fingerings, nor by changing them. Tab has a long history before modern notation; it's possible to "read" tablature for a given instrument and read off the chord structure and voice leading. Most can't do it; some few can.

There are also free sites that do not include just tab.