Yates Remarries Before Ex-Wife's Retrial

[JI7]

i wonder if he ever looks to himself and his responsibility of having all those kids and not doing anything to get Andrea help.


<Rusty Yates remarried Saturday in the church where the funeral for his five children was held and less than two days before his ex-wife's murder retrial was to begin.

The church minister said Yates chose to move on with his life while resisting temptation to pity himself or seek revenge on people who may have wronged him.

"It is easy to judge the actions of another, as though we know all the intricate details of their life story. Jesus has warned us against such judgments," minister Byron Fike said in his prepared statement. He took no questions.

Yates divorced Andrea Yates in March 2005, three years after she was sentenced to life in prison on two murder convictions for drowning her children in a bathtub. An appeals court overturned those convictions based on mistaken testimony by a psychiatrist.

Psychiatrists in her original trial testified Andrea Yates suffered from schizophrenia and postpartum depression, but disagreed over the severity of her illnesses and whether she knew her actions were wrong.>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/18/AR2006031801009.html

[mandyky]

1. Rusty Yates should have been tried as an accomplice

to what happened to those children. I can muster sympathy for Andrea, since she obviously was mentally ill. But after 5 kids, her husband _HAD_ to have known something was wrong and gettng worse.

I caught the tail end of the Abrams' Report on MSNBC the other night, and was disgusted with his "personal responsibility" attitude about Andrea, and gave good ole Rusty the male chauvanist pass.

[kurth]

4. Let's hope Rusty got himself a vasectomy

And not make five more kids while living in a school bus like an irresponsible wussy.

[BlueIris]

61. Well, one can only hope, but when has he ever taken responsibility

for himself or his actions in this life in any respect? Okay, seriously, we can hope, but...egh. Someone like Russell Yates is beyond hoping for good or positive things from.

[MADem]

5. I saw that as well, and it really punched home the fact that little Dan

got his job riding on his daddy's back. His daddy Floyd came to prominence defending First Amendment issues, among them the PENTAGON PAPERS business.

It was a stupid and inexcusable argument, and he sure doesn't have the level of thought or gravitas that his Paw has.

[China_cat]

7. He knew what was wrong with her.

He had been warned after the 3rd child that she shouldn't have any more because she could become a danger to them and herself. The day she actually killed the kids, he left her alone with them after being repeatedly told not to by her doctor. He felt all she needed was to pray harder.

And then that satisfied smile on his face at the funeral.

What Andrea Yates did was horrible, no doubt about it. What Rusty Yates did was criminal and with intent.

[Scairp]

83. Completely agree

This guy really pisses me off. I know he isn't criminally liable for the deaths of the those children, but he certainly bears much of the moral responsibility. His need to be the "man" of the family and his single-minded pursuit of this ridiculous religion are major reasons why his children are dead. Notice he remarried to a real babe though. Grief stricken father indeed. He makes me sick.

[China_cat]

101. Ever seen any pictures of Andrea

before she married him? She was a very pretty woman reduced to pulling out her own hair convinced that there was a '666' on her scalp.

[MissB]

48. Yep.

[xultar]

2. That is one dumb-ass woman. She's gonna be on lock-down with

12 kids chained to the house just like Andrea.

[LisaL]

9. The woman is 41 years old.

12 kids -not going to happen.

[xultar]

21. OK...then 5 kids.

[LisaL]

24. Five? After 41?

Women really have hard time reproducing when they hit their late thirties.

[xultar]

26. You don't think he'd put her on the fertilization pills to have more

kids. Are you nutz? He wants more children I'm sure of it. You'll hear she's preggers soon. Watch.

[LisaL]

27. So, the only way woman agrees to have kids is because some

man forces her to do it? Is that it?
Otherwise, no woman would ever want to have children?
He will put her on drugs? Without her permission? How is he going to manage that?

[xultar]

31. OMG...Did I wake up on another planet?

[BlueIris]

53. I am right there with you, xultar.

Jesus.

[LisaL]

64. The woman is an adult, she knows his history, and I imagine

she married him of her own free will. Whether she decides to have kids or not is her business. But considering she got a 21 year old son, I would say chances are pretty good she won't drown any she has with Rusty, if she has them.

[spotbird]

69. Only her child survived

to adulthood.

As as parents their children will have only a one in six chance to make it to adulthood, based on the history.

Do you think he learned not to leave his kids with delusional people?

[LisaL]

72. Considering that one third of that history is locked up (so far)

I would say the kids would have about the same chance as anyone else.

[spotbird]

75. Right, most responsible parents leave

their children with people who don't feed their kids, don't eat, don't sleep, pace around in circles and have delusions. The children of parents with that sort of judgment have the same survival potential as all children. You don't have kids, do you?

Thank God for fundamentalist rationalizations, where would America be without them?

[xultar]

107. Don't even try. Just give this one a rest. Apparently the transporters

are working but the dylithum crystals are randomly changing the landing sites.

[Dem2theMax]

168. Bravo.

Reading DU in the middle of the night is so much fun. Sometimes you wander upon a post that is so picture perfect in words (and humor,) that it makes one smile and laugh out loud.

Thank you for such a post. I LOVE it.

[Dervill Crow]

139. I would expect she is not too unlike Andrea.

Rusty wouldn't marry someone who wouldn't be submissive.

If only the (several different expletives tried here and deleted) would read the verse that says, "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the church."

[Megahurtz]

148. Honestly no offense lizzy,

but where do you get the idea that women have a hard time reproducing
when they hit their late thirties? On what planet?:wtf:

[spotbird]

33. The woman in the picture above is 41?

No way.

[LisaL]

62. She is 41, and she has a 21 year old son.

[Katherine Brengle]

60. Jeezy Chreezy -- she looks 25 in that pic...

[0007]

120. Very young looking. Must indeed be hard up for a man.

Where did they meet. At church?

[LostinVA]

134. A Christan singles dating service -- no lie

[WinkyDink]

141. Make-up, profile, at a distance....all you can be certain of is "slim".

[Megahurtz]

147. Hey, don't underestimate that one!

My own mother didn't go through menopause until she was 55 years old.

This woman that married Rusty Yates doesn't exactly look unhealthy either,
she looks a lot younger than 41, and 41 is not that old.
I'm sure she could have several kids if she has no other problems.

[Renew Deal]

131. Maybe she wants that.

:shrug:

[Warpy]

3. Seek revenge on those who have wronged HIM????

Good gawd, losing his 5 children didn't do a thing to deflate THAT massive ego, did it?

At least the new Mrs. is a little long in the tooth to serve as a reliable baby machine. Maybe she'll escape the fate of his first wife, constantly pregnant, little outside help, little support, and a wingnut, woman hating religion to increase her mental instability.

[LeftyMom]

6. So where the hell is the fundie outcry?

They demonized Michael Sciavo for moving on when his wife was braindead, so they're gonna criticize Rusty Yates since Andrea's alive but crazy and she needs him. Because that would be consistent and fundies are above all else morally consistent. Right?

:sarcasm:

Well the upside is that at 41, the new brood mare's too old to squirt out many kids- assuming they manage any at all.

[LisaL]

10. Rusty divorced Andrea first, then married someone else.

See any difference?

[LeftyMom]

15. Divorce is a sin, you know.

Andrea Yates is alive if not well. A real man would do what he needed to to get the woman he supposedly loved help, rather than washing his hands of his wife's ruined life and his five dead kids and simply moving on.

On the other hand, anything that made Terri Sciavo herself was long dead, so her husband was no less a widower because science was keeping her meat warm. He stayed legally married to her when he could have moved on with his life in order to protect her from those who would disregard her wishes. That's love.

[LisaL]

17. Oh give me a break. The woman has murdered all her children.

What freaking help can you possibly get someone like that? Good god, are you suggesting he should wait for her to get better, so they can get together again? He might be an idiot, but at least he is smarter than that.

[LeftyMom]

18. Abandoning her doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

Admitting his own share of the blame would probably be a good start. Advocating for her so that the legal system gets her good psychological treatment would be the responsible thing to do and even if he hates her guts (and I wouldn't blame him the slightest bit if he did, although I think he's a world-class slimeball too) he owes that to the woman he once loved.

edit to respond to your edit:
I'm not saying they should stay together as a couple. I'm just saying that he has a responsibility toward her he doesn't seem to be fulfilling. Remarrying just before her trial is beyond tacky. He's a creep.

[LisaL]

20. Responsibility to her? After she murdered five kids? They

were his kids too. He should still be responsible for her? In what universe?

[LeftyMom]

22. The one where the "better or worse, 'till death do us part" thing means

something. Maybe I'm asking too much of people, to do the responsible thing even when it's painful. :shrug:

[LisaL]

23. So, you must be against divorce then.

For everyone, I assume? Till death do us part, and all that? You know, you gotta stick together, no matter what your spouse does?

[LeftyMom]

25. No, but I think fundies should be held to thier own strict standards

since they try to force them on the rest of us.

[Psephos]

100. Sounds like their kind of thinking, not ours. I want no part of it.

If it sux when they do it, it sux when we do it. In fact, it double sux when we do it, because we know better. No one appointed us to lord it over those who think differently from us.


Peace.

[spotbird]

34. In the real world where people are responsible

when they ignore the dangers and warnings.

In the universe where a promise made before God that a marriage is for life, in sickness and health, means even when she gets very, very sick. That universe.

Not the new wacked out fundamentalist, realtivist world where you get to pick which of Gods laws are convient to obey.

[LisaL]

55. Marriage is for life? What is the divorce rate in US-

Isn't it like a 50%? So, what universe are you talking about?
:eyes:

[spotbird]

58. Rusty lives by God's law,

when it suits him.

[miss_american_pie]

43. He should have been responsible

before she killed the kids, when she got post-partum depression and psychosis and he didn't. When doctors told them to stop having kids, and if they wouldn't do that to keep her on meds.

He should have been responsible as a father to protect his children, even if that meant protecting them from their mother.

[BoneDaddy]

117. Are you kidding me?

My spouse murders my children and you want me to be sympathetic to her? I SHOULD help out?

I love the total inconsistency of that. Imagine if a father kills his kids, I sincerely doubt you would be asking her to be compassionate.

[LostinVA]

135. Andrea Yates murdered no one

Please learn about psychosis before you call someone a murderer.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

166. It's not murder if he person is mentally ill?

When you take another person's life it's called murder no matter the mental state of the person doing the murdering. What a weird statement. Andrea Yates IS a murderer. Deny it all you want. Mental illness or not. She murdered those kids. I have no sympathy for her.
Duckie

[BoneDaddy]

169. Um

I know plenty about psychosis. My point had less to do with that and more to do with the gender bias I see. If the man had psychosis the level of tolerance would be nil.

[BoneDaddy]

118. Are you kidding me?

My spouse murders my children and you want me to be sympathetic to her? I SHOULD help out?

I love the total inconsistency of that. Imagine if a father kills his kids, I sincerely doubt you would be asking his wife to be compassionate.

[kestrel91316]

36. If he were truly the good, bible-believing "christian" he makes

himself out to be, there is NO WAY he would divorce his wife merely because she was in legal trouble due to mental problems.

Hell, my own dad stood by my mom and her problems 'til the day he died. And he wasn't even as religious as my cats are.

[LisaL]

98. Considering you are posting here, your mom's "problems"

couldn't have been the same as Andrea's, could they?

[kestrel91316]

111. Quite similar, but not postpartum. Fortunately, the only person

Mom has ever endangered is herself (though there WAS that little matter of sort of kidnapping me for a day when I was 17......).

[spotbird]

32. You have got to be kidding

He was warned that catastrophe would result if she had more children, but he wanted more, so what the hell?

He had her living in a bus for most of the marriage. Knowing she was psychotic he encouraged homeschooling.

[tsuki]

40. Why were they living in a school bus, and where the hell was HRS?

[spotbird]

47. Who knows

skip

"If I had it all to do over again," Yates said in a 2003 interview with the Dallas Observer, "I would never have introduced Andrea to the Woronieckis."

The Yateses embraced Woroniecki as their spiritual guide, listening closely to his teachings of living free of material things and erasing evil from their lives. They moved into a trailer, dispensing with most of their things, then eventually bought Woroniecki's bus and lived in it with three children.

After the birth of their fourth child, Andrea Yates threatened to kill herself twice, and the couple traded the bus for a house. Subsequent hospitalizations for Andrea Yates followed, as did a variety of psychiatric medications.

Then Andrea Yates became pregnant a fifth time in eight years, and her father died in the spring of 2001, two events that seemed to pry loose her tentative grip on reality.

more

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3733316.html

[Missy Vixen]

138. Oh, yeah, it's all her fault

>"If I had it all to do over again," Yates said in a 2003 interview with the Dallas Observer, "I would never have introduced Andrea to the Woronieckis."<

Everything I have read up to this point has stated that it was RUSTY'S idea to sell the house, the vast majority of their household possessions, and to move a family of seven (and her ailing parents,) into a converted school bus. He wanted a "portable family".

Even if he wasn't the one who drowned the kids in the tub, in my mind, he was as culpable as she was. He ignored medical advice explicitly stating that his wife would have pronounced mental illness due to psychotic postpartum depression with any more pregnancies after the third child was born. He left a psychotic woman alone with five kids. It is amazing to me that he proceeds on with his life, while she will live in Hell for the rest of hers.

Julie

[YellowRubberDuckie]

19. She killed her children, she didn't have an abortion, remember?

The fundies don't give a shit.
Duckie

[superconnected]

162. Let's not forget they met at his church.

The average age for Menopause is 53.

[951-Riverside]

8. Glad he's moved on with his life

Anything is better than being tied down to a 5 time child murderimg screwball.

[spotbird]

38. Why take responsibility

for your actions when you can move on? This is modern America, fundamentalists aren't accountable.

[LostinVA]

102. Except Andre Yates isn't a murderer

She has severe psychosis... she isn't a sociopath.

[The Stranger]

145. Actually, that is a question that is yet to be decided.

Granted, this is not a simple case, but it is a homicide case. And chasing down and killing five children, one after the other, is not something that happens in a momentary lapse -- it likely took hours.

And the people claiming the husband is an accomplice are sorely misguided. To be an accomplice, you have to have criminal intent. Even if he were the worst husband in the world, he would never come anywhere near intent.

[LostinVA]

149. No, it has been decided -- murder has malicious intent

Someone in severe psychosis cannot commit murder. And, it didn't take hours. According to police, it took very little time. That is the one small mercy the children had. You claim there's no way RUSTY had any criminal intent, but Andrea did? The insane one? The truly insane one?

And I disagree. Russell Yates is definitely morally guilty, as legally should be charged for negligence and child endangerment. It baffles me that he wasn't.

[The Stranger]

156. No, it has not been decided. She faces trial on murder charges.

The jury will decide. It is not helpful to oversimplify this, and she is probably not a good test case for changing the law regarding insanity defenses.

And, as much as some would wish it differently (understandably), the husband cannot be held responsible because there is no evidence he participated in any way in these five homicides.

[LisaL]

160. She has been found guilty already. The conviction was

overturned, but the first jury said she was guilty of murder. Now, she is going for the second trial.
I think it's quite appropriate to say she has murdered her children, regardless, cause that is what she did.

[spotbird]

164. Damn that fair trial requirement

the Republicans should throw it out with the rest of the constitution.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

167. Dictionary.com definition of murder

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=murder

mur·der Audio pronunciation of "murder" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.

1. *The unlawful killing of one human by another*, especially with premeditated malice. (It says especially. It doesn't say only with premeditated malice.)
2. Slang. Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock1.


v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.

************1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.**********
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
3. To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
4. To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
5. Slang. To defeat decisively; trounce.

[Cleita]

11. That's a lucky girl!

I wonder how many kids he's going to force her to have.

[pitohui]

12. tacky tacky tacky

the kind of good taste and restraint we've come to know and love from mr. yates -- nice timing, dude, right before the ex goes on trial, i guess it's good for getting free coverage of your nuptials in the media tho

in fairness tho i don't see how you can say he didn't do "anything" to get help for andrea, she had help, she had doctors, she had prescription medications, so he did do something, it wasn't like he locked her up and totally failed to provide medical help

yeah, he should have put a rubber on his dick, but other men do as he did every year, and their kids don't get killed, he prob. couldn't comprehend the severity of her disease until it was too late

[LisaL]

13. WTF is he supposed to do? Sit around ant wait for Andrea to

get out so they can produce more kids?
At least now if she is released, she and Rusty won't make any more.
Grr.

[pitohui]

14. agreed i just don't like the timing

me, i'm a quiet gal, and i would have preferred a quiet wedding away from the media rather than a media circus two days before my hubby's ex is going on trial

this makes the whole wedding and honeymoon all abt andrea instead of all abt the new wife

just tasteless that's all

[LisaL]

16. Maybe he is scared Andrea will win her trial, and get out-

"here I am, honey".

[JI7]

30. why would he be scared of her?

as the good Christian man he is , shoudln't he be there for her and help deal with her mental illness ?

[LisaL]

51. She killed, not once, but five times.

Would you welcome a five time killer into your home? Maybe have her babysitting your kids?
Geez.

[spotbird]

54. He left his 5 kids in the care of a demonstratively

insane person. Who knows what he fears, but that he'd be a coward in regard to his personal safety fits.

[LisaL]

59. She could have killed him too, if God or Satan told her to.

She killed her kids because she was a bad mother. Well, she could have just as easily thought she was a bad wife. I mean, I sure as hell wouldn't want to have Andrea Yates nowhere around me.

[spotbird]

66. Leaving his kids with an insane person

was fine, but the threat that a malnourished ninety pound woman might try to drown him in a bathtub should terrify him.

He has been so brave that he has earned the right to move on. He's a fundamentalist hero.

[MadMaddie]

136. It's even worse than that...he had the wedding in the same

church that his childrens funerals were held!!

People will say well that's his church....but to me it's kinda sick and it shows that this man is sick also...

[LostinVA]

150. Ick. I didn't know that.

[knitter4democracy]

29. He knew she had postpartum depression

and his cure for that was to tell her to try and get preggers again. He left her at home alone to homeschool all those kids and take care of his dad with alzheimer's. She had no cleaning lady, no mommy helper, and he was mostly gone for work. Her only social life was in their church.

I'm sure he didn't comprehend the severity of her disease--he was hardly home and ignored all the signs. When she asked for help, he really didn't do much, other than tell her to have another kid and take her to a doctor with not a lot of follow-up.

Andrea was ill, and his vows were for in sickness and in health. She was circling the drain, and he just didn't want to deal with it. Now, you're right: most moms in that situation don't kill their kids outright. Instead, they just beat them, yell at them, lock themselves in rooms threatening to kill themselves, take drugs, or drink themselves into stupors. That's so much better. :eyes:

I'm a stay-at-home mom by my choice. I've had bad health this last year, and I've had a hard time with my hubby--and he's a doctor, for cryin' out loud. The reality is, many men who have stay-at-home wives just don't see what they don't want to see and don't help out more because they either think they don't know how or they just don't want to. At least I was able to have surgery to correct my problem and my hubby was able to see that he needs help for his issues as well before anything bad happened to our kids. Andrea wasn't that lucky.

[Catherine Vincent]

28. No matter how much you try and hide behind those shades, Rusty...

guilt will always follow you.

[951-Riverside]

35. He's not the one who murdered 5 kids

[spotbird]

37. He was an accessory, the blood is on his

hands.

[951-Riverside]

41. Wow I guess I missed that part of that trial

Please refresh me on how he aided in the drowning of those 5 children

[spotbird]

44. He was warned repeatedly by mental health

professionals.

If a mother left her five very small children in the care of a man she knew to be insane- because professionals told her so- if the man she had care for her children had not slept in weeks, if he had delusions, paced around continuously in circles, didn't eat or feed the children and eventually that known lunatic man slaughtered the children, would you say the mother was a victim of circumstance? No, you'd say she was an heartless, unloving bitch and a criminal who didn't protect her children from the obvious threat of harm. Hang her.

What if that mother smiled throughout the funeral of her children and gave interviews where she seemed no more upset than if her insured car were stolen?

But Rusty needs to move on.

[pitohui]

157. the same mental health professionals who didn't put her in hospital?

be honest

yr doctor comes to you and says that your spouse is a very, very sick puppy, so sick that he just might kill your children while you're out making groceries if you don't watch him 24/7?

you wouldn't even believe it, a, it's your spouse who you love and you don't see him in that way, b) if the docs REALLY believed he was a danger to self and others than they'd have him in a mental institution and NOT under supervision of me, a spouse who presumably also has to go out and earn a living

i think mr. yates is a tacky, ignorant jerk but he cannot be held responsible for not babysitting his wife 24/7 when the mental health PROFESSIONALS didn't believe she was ill enough to be committed

you can't realistically expect an uneducated amateur to know more about controlling a psychotic person than the professionals

before you can try rusty yates as an accessory, you need to try some damn doctors for malpractice

i think the reality is that no one realized just how ill this woman was

sometimes shitty, tragic things happen

[Catherine Vincent]

45. If you can't figure out that he's partially responsible for the deaths

of those children, then there's no need to refresh your memory.

[LostinVA]

104. That's because the poster is confusing being in a severe psychosis

Will being a sociopath. People need to educate themselves.

[Katherine Brengle]

63. To be fair, he was fully aware of her illness and the potential...

risks it carried. Because of his personal beliefs and/or utter negligence, he was part of why those children died.

[LostinVA]

103. Andrea yates also didn't murder five kids

But,s eriously, please don't let your ignorance of mental health issues ruin your defense of Russell Yates.

I'm honestly sick of the willful ignorance on DU of mental health issues.

[951-Riverside]

113. Sorry, Did I get the numbers wrong?

[LostinVA]

114. No, you got the verb wrong

It's killed, not murdered. Murder has an inherent malicious intent. Someone in the midst of a severe psychotic episode can have no malicious intent because they are not living in reality.

If you say I'm wrong, then YOU are the one sorely mistaken. This is a medical and legal FACT. I value and welcome all opinions on everything, but I do not suffer or condone false facts... especially ones about mental health and illness.

[HuffleClaw]

39. *yawn*

not remotely newsworthy imo, beyond the nuttiness of his finding someone nutty enough to marry him and his screwy fundamentalist beliefs. as to some folks' insistance on blaming him for the tragedy, i rather doubt if it had been him that killed the kids, they'd be piling blame on andrea. when you mix religion with mental illness the results aren't gonna be pretty.

[spotbird]

42. Since when can men suffer from

postpartum psychosis?

If she left him to tend the children when she knew, and was warned, that he was dangerously insane you can be damn sure she would have been charged with child endangerment and/or some form of manslaughter. She would be as vilified as she is now by the whacked out fundamentalist right.

It's always, and only, the mother's fault.

[LisaL]

50. It's rather obvious she doesn't just have PPD either.

She is most likely schizophrenic, and men do suffer from schizophrenia.

[spotbird]

57. Whatever it was it was not PPD

I didn't say it was PPD

[Katherine Brengle]

65. What is this diagnosis based on?

[spotbird]

67. Learn about what happened

I've posted a recent link earlier in this thread.

[LisaL]

70. What are your talking about?

Learn about what happened? The woman was schizophrenic before she ever married Rusty.
Then she got PPD in addition to schizophrenia.

[spotbird]

76. Let's assume you're right

Then Rusty knowingly had five children with an insane woman and then left his children with her when he knew was not in touch with reality. You're saying she was insane for longer than the recent reports indicate, but Rusty is a victim?

[LisaL]

79. What recent reports? It was known for a long time.

She was mentally ill before they got married. She had a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia, and apparently began showing symptoms in childhood. Or so the defense witness testified during her first trial. But being mentally ill does not necessarily makes someone legally insane. Far from it.

[spotbird]

84. But Rusty got her pregnant 5 times

in 8 years and left the babies in her care when he knew she wasn't all there. Poor Rusty, fundamentalist, relativist, sexist victim.

[951-Riverside]

91. We're not talking about rape here

Obviously she was okay for 8 years, if you're living what a nutjob you can't be on guard for the rest of your life and even if he left her and demanded custody of the children what court would allow it?

[spotbird]

92. We'll never know

will we? Andrea didn't sound like she was in any condition to assist a lawyer.


She was most certainly was not ok for 8 years, but that didn't matter to Rusty as long as she kept popping the babies out.

[JI7]

93. she wasn't ok in the entire 8 years. her illness was building up and

getting worse. he was warned and he did nothing. he thought all it required was to pray. he was a horrible father than husband. of course he thinks he is the great Christian man who is a victim in that.


he probably thinks Andrea brought it on herself for not praying enough.

[LisaL]

95. It's not exactly true. She has seen drs., and she was

hospitalized in mental hospitals prior to her killing all the kids.
So it's not like nothing was done to help her at all.
She obviously shouldn't have been breeding, but that in itself is not a crime.

[JI7]

97. well, it shows the faults of Russel Yates

to continue having kids with her and leaving her alone with them. and to view prayer as the solution.

[Bridget Burke]

105. Schizophrenia is one possible diagnosis.

Since you state it was genetic, perhaps you can let us know of other sufferers in her family.

Bipolar disorder & schizo-affective disorder have also been mentioned. Along with Post Partum Psychosis--not simple PPD.

Since you are so sure her problem was genetic, why don't you believe that it's better the children died? The "bad seed" concept would go well with your merciless view of humanity.

[LisaL]

124. Apparently, she got a lot of sufferers in her family.

Her brother has been diagnosed as bipolar. Other siblings suffer from depression.
As for being glad her children are dead-I won't even go there.
"The doctor said he also discovered that Yates' father, sister and two brothers had a history of mental illness. One of the brothers is bipolar."
http://www.courttv.com/trials/yates/022602_ap.html

[LisaL]

68. Not PPD?

She had both schizophrenia and PPD.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186197,00.html

[spotbird]

71. If Foxnews says so it must be true!

She had postpartum psychosis, much more severe than PPD.

What's Focus on the Family's take? Rusty is a victim of a woman who did't pray hard enough?

[LisaL]

74. Oh geez. If you don't like FOX news, how about CBS?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/01/06/national/main665171.shtml
She was un-diagnosed schizophrenic when she married Rusty.
Then she got PPD in addition to being a schizophrenic.

[spotbird]

78. Then Rusty knowingly had five children

with an insane woman and then left his children with her when he knew was not in touch with reality. You're saying she was insane for longer than the recent reports indicate, but Rusty is a victim?

[LisaL]

81. I sincerely doubt he knew she was schizophrenic when the married.

She was never diagnosed with it back then. I am still not entirely sure all her drs. agree on WTF is wrong with her even now.
Which is not that uncommon with mental patients. Different Drs. give different diagnoses.

[spotbird]

85. He sure as hell knew she was nuts

when he left the kids alone with her.

Poor Rusty.

[LisaL]

96. If he wasn't working, who exactly would have been paying their

bills?

[spotbird]

163. Those kids aren't an expense now

thanks to Rusty's sound judgment in their caregiver.

[Katherine Brengle]

73. ew--can you please not link to faux news?

:rofl:

[Puglover]

108. Why do I find it not surprizing

that her first source of news would be Fox?

[LostinVA]

109. That's why this poster is on my Ignore

[MissB]

140. Same here.

[Raine]

46. That guy is a walking disaster

I hope him and his new wife don't breed, both of them make me :puke:!

[Blue_Tires]

49. yeesh

Mr. Creepy Weirdo finds not one, but two wives?? While my eternal search to find a decent liberal woman remains forever futile?

[spotbird]

52. You want a decent liberal

Creepy didn't have standards.

[Blue_Tires]

56. lol

I at least thought there would have been some standards from the new wife, but i guess not

[LisaL]

77. Well, the first one wasn't exactly a prize, was she?

[spotbird]

80. Hey, Rusty trusted her

to care for the kids. What's that say about him?

[LisaL]

82. He is dumb?

[spotbird]

86. He's culpable

What he did was a crime. He had a duty to protect the children, but chose to risk their lives.

If a mother did it she would have been prosecuted.

[LisaL]

87. Prosecution obviously didn't think he was culpable.

He was never charged with anything.
And I do not think that a mother who did the same thing would have been prosecuted either. Name one case where a mother left mentally ill father with children, the father killed the children, and the mother went to prison for it. And I am not asking for cases where the woman was in the home during the murders. I am talking about woman leaving the home and the man killing the kids while she was gone, and her going to prison for it.
And if we are responsible for what a mentally ill person does-what about all these cases where mentally ill go out and kill someone outside the home? Should the relatives or spouses be hauled off to prison for allowing mentally ill to go out and commit the crimes?

[spotbird]

88. It is a radical leftest ideal

that parents should have a duty to leave their children in the care of sane caregivers.

In modern fundamentalist America men don't have that responsibility if they are "good Christians."

There are countless examples of women who were charged after their children are injured when the mother fails to protect the kids from known abusers. It is pointless to research examples because you'd certainly find a distinction where there is no difference.

It may be perfectly reasonable to you for a parent to leave five children, including an infant and three babies, with someone who has lost touch with reality but it is morally reprehensible and legally a crime. The fact that a Texas prosecutor didn't charge Rusty just goes to show the power Christian fundamentalism has over secular laws in America.

[LisaL]

89. Why don't you try me? Countless examples-name one.

[spotbird]

90. Lizzy, in your reality

a father has no responsibility to leave his children, infants, babies and toddlers with a caregiver who will feed them, or even is aware of time in place. You are right that this is the new reality in "Christian" America, pity the children.

In the old repressive America, parents who left their children in grave peril were held responsible, even if they had a distorted view of Christ's will. Nothing will convince you of that, and I'm not going to continue to try.

Poor Rusty has a beautiful new blond, let's hope she knows not to leave babies in the care of insane people.

[LisaL]

94. Again. Name one case, where a spouse was charged

for leaving kids with a mentally ill other spouse. If you can't, it's because none exist.
Old America, new America-doesn't matter. Nothing can convince me of that, so you won't try? Please! You haven't even tried- all you have to do is to name one actual case where one spouse was charged for leaving children with the mentally ill other spouse that murdered them.

[Bridget Burke]

106. Men who murder their children are usually not judged insane.

They just got annoyed when the brat wouldn't stop crying.

Usually while the mother was working.

[LisaL]

122. Then the mother shouldn't leave the child with a man that

has such a short temper, no?

[lenegal]

112. He is as guilty as she is

Have you read any of the stories from friends of Rusty that state that two weeks before she killed her children, the friends of Rusty and Andrea saw them and stated that Andrea, with a know mental illness backround, suicide attempts; looked like a caged animal was walking around in circles.

Here is a woman with a history of mental illness who has obviously taken a turn for the worse, and the husband goes about his merry way.

HE IS AS GUILTY AS SHE IS AND SHOULD BE IN PRISON. HE WAS THE SANE ONE. SHE WAS NOT.

[LisaL]

154. He was working. Having to support five kids and all that?

It appears some of you haven't a clue on what bills are?
Who would be paying the bills if he stopped working and stayed at home?
He also had his mother helping Andrea out. But Andrea waited until he went to work, before his mother arrived, to murder the kids.
Furthermore, Deanna Laney killed her two kids and severely injured another while her husband was sleeping. If a person wants something, that person would obviously find a way. Having her husband there did not stop Deanna Laney from murdering her kids.

[raccoon]

116. Women date OJ, don't they?

But as a woman, I can't see having anything to do with either of them, given their histories.

[tatertop]

99. Rusty should be in prison

[superconnected]

110. the real question... what is she doing with him?

I doubt she'll want to give up that figure for a baseball team.

[LisaL]

121. She is the proof that having kids does not ruin the figure-

she actually got two already.

[WinkyDink]

143. I think we have many actresses who "prove" this. Not to mention

women all around us.

[warrens]

115. Why isn't this sadistic religious fanatic in jail?

I don't sympathize with Andrea at all, but this guy needs a few hundred lashes with a two by four.

[Blue_Tires]

119. just to reiterate for the new Mrs. Yates:

RUN BITCH!!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111ONEONEONE:scared: :hide: :yoiks:

[LisaL]

123. Some of you seem to be just as nuts as Andrea-

Run bitch? WTF is that?

[Blue_Tires]

126. a quote from an old chapelle skit

lol....

and i do happen to think this woman is in grave danger...

[LisaL]

127. In grave danger? Maybe if Andrea gets out.

[hedgehog]

125. You know, this entire thread has a strong whiff of sanctimony

Change the circumstances just a little bit, and the Freepers would be lining up to burn Yates at the stake and some people here would be lining up to protect him. The truth is that people are complicated and that bad things happen that no one involved sees coming. Does anyone here really believe that Randy Yates went to work that day knowing that his wife was going to drown his children? If you don't have someone in your family who worries the hell out of you, consider yourself very lucky. Most other people are dealing with someone who is alcoholic, mentally ill, addicted to something or just plain irresponsible. If Randy Yates can salvage something of a life out of this mess, then God bless. Let's just hope we can figure out a decent way to handle Andrea for the rest of her life.

[LisaL]

128. I agree. Most of people here apparently think that living with

a mentally ill person is a piece of cake. The reality is, people do all kinds of crazy things-who exactly is supposed to monitor them all day long? If one spouse is a drunk-would the other spouse be responsible when the drunk goes out driving and kills someone? Andrea was an adult. Legally, she did not need a keeper who was supposed to be watching her 24 hours a day. Rusty also had his mother coming to be with the children. The mother just hasn't arrived. Andrea planned the whole thing so she would be able to kill the kids after Rusty left for work before the mother arrived. Andrea only had about an hour to accomplish the whole thing, and she did it.
Yet apparently Rusty should be in jail-for what-he had to work to pay the bills. His mother was coming in to help Andrea out. Andrea knew it, so she did the deed in the time available to her.

[superconnected]

161. I think their point is, that he kept her in kids - 5 in 7 years.

Thus contributing to her insanity.

Plus he knew she was insane to begin with.

[TexasBushwhacker]

165. Yup

And you can't leave a judgement call (having more children) up to a person who has impaired judgement. He knew that she'd had postpartum depression in the past. He knew it had been worse with each child. He knew that her psychiatrist recommended that she not have more children, and he knew of her two suicide attempts. This is why people can have someone in their family committed for psychiatric evaluation. You can't expect a person who is mentally ill to recognize that they are ill, and you can't expect them to get help themselves.

[RobinA]

172. This Same Attitude

came out when the bipolar guy was shot by security on the jetway after fleeing an airplane. Apparently, it was his wife's fault for trying to fly him home knowing he had bipolar. People have NO IDEA what living with mental illness is like. Plus, they somehow claim to be liberals, while at the same time believing that the mentally ill must be controlled by the supposedly sane at all times. Doesn't work that way.

[Inland]

129. I'm not sure what he saw coming, but it has nothing to do w/remarriage

His getting remarried has nothing to do with any culpability he had, or Andrea had, in the deaths of the children. Why he is supposed to not get married, or some other woman not marry him, has got practically nothing to do with the killings of the children.

[LostinVA]

130. Actually, yes, Rusty did go to work knowing that something like that

could well happen. He was very well versed in what his wife's illness is, so much so, that his own mother "guarded" Andrea. But, she was late that morning, and Rusty left anyway.

I don't think it's being sanctimonious. I think we all are disgusted by the hypocrisy of what happened: Andrea will be institutionalized forever... Rusty knew more children would drive her over the edge, but wanted a baseball team, wanted to live in a bus, wanted the kids homeschooled.....Rusty gets to get remarried and fill his quiver..... he promised to love and protect her... he failed miserably, yet has never taken any responsibility.....he babbled alot about the sanctity of marriage NO MATTER WHAT.... he divorced his wife while she is in sickness.... his timing is crass and tacky... etc.

For me, it is not being santimoinious... it is disgust at someone who is morally bereft of decency, yet uses in vain the name of Jesus, whose message was about love, and whose message raised women from the level of chattel to the level of discipline.

[hedgehog]

132. So we out-fundy the fundies with our judgements?

Sometimes it's best to say nothing.

[LostinVA]

133. I'm not out-Fundying anyone

I have a right to my opinion, and I think that our justice system sucks, because that man should be held as negligent in some way. And, yeah, I also have a right to my judgment, as long as it isn't a "Fundie" style judgment. And it isn't.

Justice wasn't served in this case, not in any way. The lives that were ruined were the five children and Andrea Yates'... not Rusty yates'. In the cosmic scheme of things, that is disgusting.

I would also appreciate your not calling me a Fundie again. Thank you.

[Psephos]

175. Wow, excellent posts in this thread, hedgehog

No good ever comes of it when people start with the preaching.

Peace.

[LisaL]

137. Oh jesus christ.

Considering 50% of marriages end in divorce, is it really surprising Rusty didn't wait for Andrea to get out?
In sickness and in health-you apparently think she will never get out-so, what is the spouse supposed to do? Never get married, because he is already married to Andrea? It appears to me some of you are still living in the 19th century, and never heard of divorce. I, for one, am happy he got married-at least if Andrea gets out, she and Rusty won't be reproducing no more.

[pitohui]

159. that's a nice post, hedgehog

you are right

[WinkyDink]

142. Culpability or no, he is still ONE CREEPY DUDE.

YUCK!

[Roon]

144. I hate that bastard! Just so everyone knows....

he never once changed a diaper.

[yellowcanine]

146. I am not going to judge him because I don't know what all he has had

to deal with. He always did strike me as a little creepy but I think we can't say whether he "should have known," etc. I don't care who you are, no one anticipates a mother killing her kids.

[LostinVA]

151. But he was told all of this by medical professionals

Her condition was totally deteriorated, she was literally in another world, and you could see it... this tragedy was literally 100% preventable: have no more kids. But Russell "I Want Enough for a Baseball Team: Yates refused to honor and love his wife and heed this medical advice.

[LisaL]

153. No one could say whether this tragedy was preventable

if she had less kids. She could have ended up killing less children if she had less, that's true. But the woman was schizophrenic, and apparently started having some symptoms before she married him. She had visions of knives and murders after the birth of her first child.
Anyhow, schizophrenics can be violent and kill even if they never get pregnant or have PPD.

[superconnected]

155. I don't think it could be called 100 percent preventable.

I think he contributed to the problem by keeping her in kids - 5 in 7 years.

But I doubt she would have been safe with or without children. I'm not blaming her as she's nuts. I just think she was nuts with or without kids. All thost kids most certianly made her worse though.

[LisaL]

158. Yes, they made her worse. But there is no doubt

a whole bunch of her siblings and her other relatives have mental issues.
If she had another husband, not Rusty, the same thing could have just as easily happened.
There is obviously something very wrong with her.
But I do not think she qualifies for legal definition of insanity, as she clearly (IMO) knew that what she did was wrong.

[Bridget Burke]

170. What, exactly, is the mental history of Andrea's relatives?

You've already said she was genetically predisposed to schizophrenia. If her whole family was "damaged"--perhaps she did the gene pool a favor by killing her children. That's not MY belief, but it might fit into your merciless view of the case.

Sincere sympathies that you didn't snag Randy for yourself!

[Puglover]

171. I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head Bridget.

The vehemence with which some of the posters defend Yates makes me think there could be another agenda here. Maybe they think he's hot? :shrug:

I don't know why it is so difficult for anyone to see the nuance here. Actually I don't think it's all that fucking nuanced. However it appears that some people posting over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over here can't see that Rusty's agenda may have contributed to this tragedy in a huge way and place 100 percent of culpability on Andrea.

Of course whe should be where she is, however Rusty boy running off divorcing her and having a swell life while his wife rots in jail seems simply wrong. Anyone remember his creepy attitude during the whole thing?
:scared:

edit for spelling and clarity.

[Chovexani]

152. OMFG look at him!

WHAT A TOOL! :puke:

WTF would any woman want with this douchebag?

[CreekDog]

174. Andrea didn't murder them, but Russell is responsible for it

Jeez...

Talk about inconsistent.

=======

Secondly, I don't care about this man's marriage. I don't know the details.

However, if one divorces a spouse that killed their children(and there is no arguing that she killed their children), it's really hard for me to argue that isn't a valid reason for divorce.

Those who disagree with both my points, you should fully expect that people would naturally disagree with you and not ASSUME agreement because what you are arguing does not make sense. There is this little thing called "persuasion" that is useful when one makes claims that are hard to believe and it's something we rely on to be convinced of things.

[High Plains]

173. Who gives a rat's ass?

Don't we have anything better to natter on about?