LAT: Greenland's Ice Sheet Is Slip-Sliding Away

[Pirate Smile]

Greenland's Ice Sheet Is Slip-Sliding Away
The massive glaciers are deteriorating twice as fast as they were five years ago. If the ice thaws entirely, sea level would rise 21 feet.

By Robert Lee Hotz, Times Staff Writer
June 25, 2006


JAKOBSHAVN GLACIER, Greenland — Gripping a bottle of Jack Daniel's between his knees, Jay Zwally savored the warmth inside the tiny plane as it flew low across Greenland's biggest and fastest-moving outlet glacier.

Mile upon mile of the steep fjord was choked with icy rubble from the glacier's disintegrated leading edge. More than six miles of the Jakobshavn had simply crumbled into open water.
"My God!" Zwally shouted over the hornet whine of the engines.

-snip-
The ice is so massive that its weight presses the bedrock of Greenland below sea level, so all-concealing that not until recently did scientists discover that Greenland actually might be three islands.

Should all of the ice sheet ever thaw, the meltwater could raise sea level 21 feet and swamp the world's coastal cities, home to a billion people. It would cause higher tides, generate more powerful storm surges and, by altering ocean currents, drastically disrupt the global climate.

Climate experts have started to worry that the ice cap is disappearing in ways that computer models had not predicted.


WATER PROOF: Greenland is losing 52 cubic miles of ice each year, more than anyone anticipated. The amount of freshwater ice dumped into the Atlantic Ocean has almost tripled in a decade. Climate experts have started to worry that the ice cap is disappearing in ways that computer models had not predicted.


GETTING WARMER: NASA glaciologist Jay Zwally studies images at Swiss Camp in western Greenland, which he has visited every year since 1994. Zwally has studied polar regions since 1972.
(Robert Lee Hotz / LAT)


ICE GAUGE: Researchers erect instruments to monitor ice movement in western Greenland. The island’s glaciers, which help shape the world’s weather, are fading fast. “We are clearly seeing the effects of climate change starting to kick in,” one expert says.
(Robert Lee Hotz / LAT)

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-sci-greenland25jun25,0,6885120,full.story

[AnOhioan]

1. And the chimp continues to use fake science to.....

convince the American public that global warming is a big liberal scare tactic. At least Al Gore is acting like an adult.

[Benhurst]

2. Recommended

[SpiralHawk]

3. Faith-based 'science' has proven conslusively that this is a liberal plot

intended to undo the ignominius reign of Jebus AWOL Bush, Lord and Kommander, Skull & Boner Occult Gangbanger Supremo.

For all you REALLY know, those chunks of slushy ice up there in the North could very well be spillage from the Great Cosmic Martini.

Do not believe the fact-based liberals.

Get a grip, Assume the Position, and tune into Faux News for the latest version of the "truth."

[rucky]

30. What difference does it make? We'll be sucked into the sky any day.

Well, at least I will. Not sure about YOU>


or in the words or GWB: "We'll all be dead."

[Pirate Smile]

4. more

"By all accounts, the glaciers of Greenland are melting twice as fast as they were five years ago, even as the ice sheets of Antarctica — the world's largest reservoir of fresh water — also are shrinking, researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory and the University of Kansas reported in February.

....
Across the ice cap, however, the area of seasonal melting was broader last year than in 27 years of record-keeping, University of Colorado climate scientists reported. In early May, temperatures on the ice cap some days were almost 20 degrees above normal, hovering just below freezing.

From cores of ancient Greenland ice extracted by the National Science Foundation, researchers have identified at least 20 sudden climate changes in the last 110,000 years, in which average temperatures fluctuated as much as 15 degrees in a single decade.
The increasingly erratic behavior of the Greenland ice has scientists wondering whether the climate, after thousands of years of relative stability, may again start oscillating.

....
Then the ice sheet began to confound computer-generated predictions.
By 2005, Greenland was beginning to lose more ice volume than anyone expected — an annual loss of up to 52 cubic miles a year — according to more recent satellite gravity measurements released by JPL. The amount of freshwater ice dumped into the Atlantic Ocean has almost tripled in a decade.
"We are clearly seeing the effects of climate change starting to kick in," Zwally said.

....
In an influential paper published in Science, Zwally surmised that the ice sheets had accelerated in response to warmer temperatures, as summer meltwater lubricated the base of the ice sheet and allowed it to slide faster toward the sea.
In a way no one had detected, the warm water made its way through thousands of feet of ice to the bedrock — in weeks, not decades or centuries.
So much water streamed beneath the ice that in high summer the entire ice sheet near Swiss Camp briefly bulged 2 feet higher, like the crest of a subterranean wave.
"This meltwater acceleration is new," Zwally said. "The significance of this is that it is a mechanism for climate change to get into the ice."

[eleny]

5. "...freshwater ice dumped into the Atlantic Ocean has almost tripled...

...in a decade."
"We are clearly seeing the effects of climate change starting to kick in," Zwally said.

(Another two quotes from the article.)

K&R

[NYC]

8. Highlight this part:

...In an influential paper published in Science, Zwally surmised that the ice sheets had accelerated in response to warmer temperatures, as summer meltwater lubricated the base of the ice sheet and allowed it to slide faster toward the sea.

In a way no one had detected, the warm water made its way through thousands of feet of ice to the bedrock — in weeks, not decades or centuries.

So much water streamed beneath the ice that in high summer the entire ice sheet near Swiss Camp briefly bulged 2 feet higher, like the crest of a subterranean wave.

"This meltwater acceleration is new," Zwally said. "The significance of this is that it is a mechanism for climate change to get into the ice."

[Pirate Smile]

11. Done. I was posting with frequent interruptions - coming back

and editing to bold, etc. when I got a chance.

Thanks.

[NYC]

12. I don't want anyone to miss that.

It's significant. Thanks for posting the article.

[Ezlivin]

6. What if all the scientists are wrong? Huh? What about that?

Has anyone ever considered that the scientists are wrong in their modeling of the earth's climate?

What if they have completely underestimated the amount of change we'll see?

I fear that things are much worse than we know. It seems that every new measurement and every new update to the research brings with it more dire news.

This is life in a dynamic non-linear system.

[pitohui]

19. well then if it's hopeless it's hopeless

if there's nothing to be done and tipping point is already past, there is nothing to be done

but in case there is still time what is the point in raising this issue of scientists underestimating the effects? i actually happen to think you are probably right but i rarely post on this topic, because saying things like "what's the use, it's too late" is not productive

the estimate is that there are maybe 10 years left to change things, if they have underestimated, well, the clock has already run out

so it doesn't seem a point worth discussing over much

[Amonester]

40. In my perspective, I think it's useful in a way, like there are...

a lot of discussions that need to get started, and a lot of good questions need to be asked. As an obvious example (to me anyway), what does a 'sudden' (probable) raise of 21 feet could mean to, for example, a place like New York City? Or any other costal area, like Los Angeles, for instance? What would happen? Who (or how many?) would be 'affected' and if they'd need to know how to swim, do they know how to swim?

In short (and seriouly enough, I comply), what are the damn plans for each regions? (If there are any plans at all...)

And that only accounts for the US...

What about seashores (and their inhabitants) all over this planet that's 'lost in space'?

Who should make emergency plans and at what costs?

My 2 cents.

[RangerSmith]

37. They probably are wrong

We've had.. what.... 4 periods on this planet classified as an "Ice Age?"

We'll have more, and I get the feeling it gets pretty damn bad outside while we're heading into those periods!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. Reccomended.

Fantastic article. Everyone should read it.

[texpatriot2004]

9. I saw "An Inconvenient Truth" last night, the film talked about

this issue. It is a great film.

[drm604]

21. I just saw it this evening

and it described this exactly. It's a frightening, but necessary, film. Part of me despairs that we may be past the point of no return on the Greenland issue. Even if we're not, our current government certainly isn't going to do anything about it. :cry:

[reprobate]

10. I've said before that corporations will cause the end of Man.

And I place the blame solely on corporate influence on government. OUR government. A nation of rational people would see to it that ALL of the people responsible for the decisions that are destroying our ecosystem, the thing that keeps us alive, would be treated to a permanent vacation, with adequate housing consisting of very small, very cramped cells monitored by webcams so that we could all watch them meditate on the folly of their actions 24/7/365.

And I'm talking about everyone from Mad George down to the board members of every corporation that contributed to the situation we now face. They all profited from it so they should all pay for it.

[CrispyQ]

29. We have given rights & protections to artificial entities

whose goals do not include the things that human beings need: clean air & water, safe food, health care, education, the Commons. Their human minions (CEOs, BODs & most ‘public servants’) are traitors to our species.

Revoke corporate personhood rights.

[Up2Late]

13. I blame the Media and the Scientists for telling us about this!

If they would just stop reporting this, it would go away, right? RIGHT?!?! :sarcasm: :eyes:

HELLO!

Man, this wouldn't be nearly as depressing if I thought someone in Washington was actually going to do something to reverse this nightmare. :argh:

[NastyDiaper]

14. If you live near the coast..

..cash out and rent. I only wish that I was kidding.

[freefall]

32. Good advice. Too bad few will take it. n/t

[Clarkie1]

15. Now that's an inconvenient truth. nt

[IndianaGreen]

16. I am sure the "In God We Trust" license plates will save Florida

from becoming an archipelago.


Using computer models, scientists have created a series of
maps that show areas susceptible to rises in sea level. The
above map shows that a 6-meter (20-foot) rise would swamp
Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, and the entire Florida coastline,
in addition to parts of Orlando and other inland areas.

Warming to Cause Catastrophic Rise in Sea Level?
Stefan Lovgren
for National Geographic News

Updated April 26, 2004

However, the biggest danger, many experts warn, is that global warming will cause sea levels to rise dramatically. Thermal expansion has already raised the oceans 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters). But that's nothing compared to what would happen if, for example, Greenland's massive ice sheet were to melt.

"The consequences would be catastrophic," said Jonathan Overpeck, director of the Institute for the Study of Planet Earth at the University of Arizona in Tucson. "Even with a small sea level rise, we're going to destroy whole nations and their cultures that have existed for thousands of years."

Overpeck and his colleagues have used computer models to create a series of maps that show how susceptible coastal cities and island countries are to the sea rising at different levels. The maps show that a 1-meter (3-foot) rise would swamp cities all along the U.S. eastern seaboard. A 6-meter (20-foot) sea level rise would submerge a large part of Florida.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0420_040420_earthday.html

[Viva_La_Revolution]

25. No pics of the West Coast?

maybe I'll get lucky and my apartment will end up with an ocean view.

:sarcasm:




:scared:

[Amonester]

41. Here's one (out of thousands) from the Gulf Coast:

Nouvelle Orleans (2005) : A (Catastrophe) Primer? :cry:

And that's what, 5 feet (more or less)?

Where are the (obviously 'needed') emergency plans (and who will pay again)?

[smirkymonkey]

39. How quickly does this happen?

Does sea level creep up over a period of years or do people just wake up one morning and realize they have beachfront property?

I would like to see a projection of just what it would look like as far as it's impact on human society. I think if someone could come up with a timeline or a bullet pointed list of how people's daily lives would be affected, it might sink in to some of those thick skulls more readily.

Right now I think a lot of people out there are telling themselves "Oh yeah, Global Warming, we'll never really see any major impact in our lifetime" and therefore they see no need to do anything about it.

[Maestro]

17. This is frightening.

And what is so frustrating is that, for the most part, technologies exist to help the Earth start to heal from all our fossil fuel fever. It is just that our government will not subsidize these technologies, wind and solar technologies at our fingertips. It is simply disgusting. When will we change?

[HB1]

18. Scary stuff....

...thanks for posting this. It's alarming that experts are starting to worry about the unpredictability of climate change... who knows when we'll reach the tipping point.

[Pirate Smile]

20. Welcome to DU, HB1!

:hi:

[HB1]

28. Thank you, Pirate Smile!

:)

[progressoid]

22. Ya, but what about flag burnin' and them homersexials gettin' married.

That's what is going to ruin Murica people.

[Catchawave]

23. "Allaska Meltdown" on the Weather Channel

was pretty eye-opening. Yes, they are melting too, and this is a pretty "non-partisan" source.

[Comadreja]

24. And gas prices are going down again

Any tendency to drive less is rewarded by Big Oil with price reductions to ensure maximum petrol use.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

26. we are...

[autorank]

27. It's necessary that people responsible do Hard Time - lots of it.

Any prosecutor who refuses to bring charges, recall.

Any judge refusing to give the case a fair hearing, impeach immediately.

If you wonder what I'm talking about, see the Gore film or review the issue.

As part of those responsible, I'm including the media, MSM. Gore had one great factoid I had not heard.

MSM coverage of the global warming "debate" - about 1/2 coverage of the consensus scientific view that global warming was real and a huge problem and 50% for the "other side."

Survey of the 10,000 articles published in peer reviewed professional journals -
consensus scientific view that global warming was real and a huge problem and 0% (zero) for the "other side."

So when scientists judge whether the anti global warming crowd has ANY evidence, enough just to make a case and thus get in ANY peer reviewed professional journal, guess what - there is NO FUCKING CASE!!!

This was intentional on the part of the media, there is harm and will be great harm.

They are part of the reason this is happing and they produced their papers, television shows, etc. with full knowledge that the "other side" was total nonsense.

They are a vile crew and need to be held to account.

[redqueen]

31. Kick

:kick:

[gasperc]

33. what if? massive ice sheet breaks off floats...

and before melting in the ocean, which is catostrophic in itself, floats down and slams into mainland north america, like in North Canada or something

[Amonester]

42. simple: biggest mega-tsunami in history

Another mega-tsunami 'warning' (what's 'done' to prevent it from happening - even if it's not related to global warming - or could it be?):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/mega_tsunami_qanda.shtml

~snip~
Scientists also know that a collapse will not happen without any warning. They will be able to alert people to possible danger several weeks in advance.

2. How do scientists know?
Scientists have discovered that La Palma will collapse at the time of some future volcanic eruption on the summit of the Cumbre Vieja volcano. Eruptions on the summit occur on average every 200 years or so. The last summit eruption was in 1949, so it may be many decades before the next summit eruption takes place.

Furthermore, the collapse will not necessarily happen during the next summit eruption. It may well take five, ten or more summit eruptions before the collapse occurs. But scientists simply do not know how many eruptions it will take.

3. What effects would the collapse have?
The western flank of the Cumbre Vieja volcano would slide down westwards into the Atlantic ocean. There would be very strong earthquakes across La Palma while the flank was sliding. As the flank slid into the sea, it would create a very large wave called a mega-tsunami. This wave would move rapidly westwards.

Most of the energy of the wave would head straight out across the Atlantic towards the United States, Bahamas and the Caribbean, but a smaller wave or waves would head in other directions too. All these waves would get smaller as they cross the Atlantic. However scientists believe that they could still be as much as 50 metres high, for example, when they reach the east coast of the United States.

4. Is there anything we can do to stop the collapse from happening?
Scientists say that although the risk of a collapse happening in the next few decades is small, when it does happen, it will cause great destruction, both on La Palma itself and wherever the mega-tsunami from La Palma strike land.

Although nothing can be done to stop a collapse, scientists point out there is a lot that can be done to prevent loss of life when a collapse does eventually happen. With suitable monitoring, warning and evacuation, people can be moved out of the areas at risk.

~~~~~~
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/mega_tsunami_qanda.shtml

[hatrack]

34. Kicking what can no longer be ignored

nt

[primavera]

35. If only that were true

But the Bushista junta has demonstrated its ability to ignore every other reality, what makes us so sure they won't continue to ignore this? I swear, even if something along the lines of The Day After Tomorrow transpired and a new Ice Age entombed the White House inside a glacier, the shrub would still be inside raving about how he pays no attention to those liberal scientists, he takes his orders from a higher authority. :eyes:

[bdamomma]

36. our environment is telling us that we are ruining this planet

it is the only one we have, we must change our ways to stop this, or at least try to curb it.

[redqueen]

38. This article made me wonder if it's already too late. n/t

[stepnw1f]

43. ahhhhh shit!

Things are gonna get really nasty (weather).

[kineneb]

44. holy crapoly!

And I am just finishing up Gared Diamond's Collapse. I was hoping we might have a little time to try to slow this down, but it looks like the brown stuff is about to hit the rapidly rotating object. If you live at sea level, time to think about moving to higher ground while it is still possible. I hang my head in shame as a member of Homo (not) Sapiens.
:cry: