Saudi court sentences rape victim to 90 lashes

[ECH1969]

A Saudi court has sentenced a gang rape victim to 90 lashes of the whip because she was alone in a car with a man to whom she was not married.

Saudi courts take marital status into account in sexual crimes. A male friend of the rape victim was also sentenced to 90 lashes for being alone with her in the car.

The court heard that the victim and her friend were followed by the assailants to their car, kidnapped and taken to a remote farm, where the raping occurred. The victim was quoted by Okaz newspaper as saying she had expected harsher penalties for the assailants, especially as they had pleaded not guilty.

Her husband and family said that they would appeal to the court Saturday for harsher penalties for a crime which has shocked public opinion in Saudi Arabia and been the subject of months of debate.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378314145&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[JuniperLea]

1. Why do you hate America

These are our trusted friends! We need them to take care of our ports! You are helping the terrorists!!

:sarcasm:

[imfreaky]

6. Saudi Arabia is not the United Arab Emerit (spelling?) that was

looking to do the port things here. And that is some crazy shit. Beat the victim.:wtf:

[saigon68]

14. FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY and EQUALITY are on the March

Every time I read shit like this I think of this photo.






And I think of Rep Cooksey



Cooksey, an arch-conservative Republican, is planning to run against Sen. Mary Landrieu, a Democrat nearing the end of her first term. Cooksey made news last week for some bone-headed comments about airport security and racial profiling in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"If I see someone comes in that's got a diaper on his head and a fan belt wrapped around the diaper on his head, that guy needs to be pulled over," Cooksey said during an interview with Louisiana Radio Network.

[CJCRANE]

22. Read "House of Bush, House of Saud"

or watch "Fahrenheit 9/11" or "9/11: Press for Truth" for B*sh family ties to Saudi Arabia.

[Actionmac]

2. Bush and repubs are teaching that lesson

how to make the victim believe they were responsible... sign up now and you might get Mistress Coulter

[cali]

10. It's just fucking absurd

to try and tie this into buscho. Totally and completely unrelated.

[Actionmac]

11. pay attention

Abu Ghraib guards encourage to torture, then brought up on charges... Coulter blames 911 wives for their sadness due to loss...

[Bill McBlueState]

40. there's no connection

What do you think the sentence would have been during the Clinton administration?

Saudi Arabia does a fine job of maintaining the 12th century without our help.

[RamboLiberal]

13. BS - Look who Bushie holds hands with

Bush, Laura, Rice, etc., out to be out there protesting this loudly and publicly!

This is barbarism! And it's past time for the world to stand up to this abuse of women and the lack of women's rights in these countries.

The same bans used against South Africa's apartheid should be employed against these countries.

Oh, I forgot, they have the oil and we're screwed. :sarcasm:

[CJCRANE]

21. Ever heard of Prince Bandar "Bush" ?

I think the guy's nickname gives you a clue as to how close he is to the Bush family.

[brentspeak]

38. Can you please explain, in simple words, what this has to do with anyone else

but the Saudis?

[smirkymonkey]

44. Yeah, I was wondering that too.

I'm not following the logic.

If the US never existed, they would still be a backward, fucked up nation no matter how you try to position it.

[breakaleg]

3. That is very sad.

[krispos42]

4. More blame-the-victim

I cannot believe the innocent were punished and the guilty were not. This is "she was asking for it" taken beyond all reason and sanity.

90 lashings is damn-near fatal on a man. It's what the Royal Navy used to do when you really screwed up. I can't imagine what will happen to this poor lady and her friend.

[Xithras]

18. The rapists ARE being punished.

If you read the full article, you'll see that the rapist who started it all has been sentenced to 1000 lashes. If they're administered all at once, that will be a fairly horrific way to die.

[meow2u3]

35. The victim should NOT have been punished at all

No woman should be punished because a gang of men twice her size overpowered her and forced themselves on her.

[Nevernose]

39. Technically, she's being punished for an unrelated crime

Prior to being followed to a remote farm and being brutalized, she committed an unrelated crime (being alone with a man who was not her husband). The man she was with, who was not one of the rapists, was also given the same sentence as the woman. At least that's how the Arabian judges will rationalize it.

Of course, the "alone with a member of the opposite sex" law is arguably even MORE insane than a law punishing rape victims.

[NuttyFluffers]

49. this is technically correct. it's viewed as punishment for lack of common sense

doesn't necessarily mean i agree with this mode of thinking, but you do touch upon what many here are missing in this story.

she is being punished for being with a man who is not her husband (or at least family relative), because it is assumed that her husband would look out for her safety at all times. the guy friend is being punished for also lacking sense in not immediately getting this woman back to the safety (edit: he would not escort, btw. he would disengage from her presence and send for or phone one of the other clan's men, if needed.) of one of the men of her clan (she was adopted into her husband's clan and therefore that clan is now hers as well). they are not being punished for the rape per se, but for not following what would be common sense and prudence in their line of thinking. the lashing is because the judges view this act as a severe breach of custom and sense and want to instill home that the behavior of these two not only brought shame upon the family, but could have ended up much worse. so as to prevent a relapse they are literally trying to beat sense into them.

the other men are being punished for the rape. and i believe that the end of the article has a comment, though vaguely worded, to mean that the victim's family is petitioning for stiffer penalties upon the rapists. it could be an issue because if there's a sense of lack of justice a vendetta can arise and more issues will accrue. Saudi Arabia in many ways is very much a tribal society at its core.

[brentspeak]

36. In this rapist's case, maybe all-at-once wouldn't be such a bad idea

[oblivious]

50. I don't think they die. One woman got 8,000 lashes for abducting a child. Better than eye-gouging.

In August, an appeals court in Mekka reportedly confirmed the sentence of 8,000 lashes for a woman who was convicted of abducting a child. Thousands of lashes are not uncommon sentences in Saudi Arabia.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/02/07/saudia12622.htm

Two teachers, arrested following demonstrations in Najran, were reported to have been sentenced to 1,500 lashes each to be carried out in front of their families, students and other teachers.
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/webmepcountries/SAUDI+ARABIA?OpenDocument

Corporal punishments provided by law included public execution by beheading, amputation, lashing, and other measures deemed appropriate by the judicial authorities, including potentially as eye-gouging.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61698.htm

According to press reports, lashes were generally administered with a thin reed by a man who must hold a book under his arm to prevent him from lifting the arm too high. The strokes, delivered through a thin shirt, are not supposed to leave permanent damage, but to leave painful welts that bleed and bruise.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61698.htm

[Jamastiene]

56. How thoughtful of them.

"The strokes, delivered through a thin shirt, are not supposed to leave permanent damage, but to leave painful welts that bleed and bruise." Good to see they aren't cruel or unusual in their punishments. :sarcasm:

[closeupready]

5. Appalling.

:mad:

[GreenTea]

7. And Bush invaded Iraq for their oil-Yet left the Saudi killing dictatorship alone?

Simply because BushCo has been in the oil business with the Saudi dictator's for over forty years.

[saigon68]

15. The Chimp does a Lewinsky on Abdullah

[Katzenjammer]

59. Yes, if any Arabic regime wants changing by force, it's that one.

The world does not need lunatic fundamentalist religions in charge of states.

[warrens]

8. Our freedom loving, steadfast ally

I can't wait to see the House of Saud strung up.

[NuttyFluffers]

51. oh i don't know about that... it could be worse.

the Hedjaz wasn't well known through history as being a hap-hap-happy land. now that the Saud family united much of the peninsula through marriage, it isn't that much better. *but* the Saud, even though they control the country, play a very delicate game of power through diplomacy politics. they are also incredibly successful at it. they are trying to modernize, but they have the Hedjaz and Wahabbi legacy to deal with. so they turned to coopting power with clerics and letting religious police take an active role in society. if the house of Saud leaves it could mean either clerical takeover or breakdown into feuding clans. this would not be a good thing over one of the world's largest oil reserves.

[PittPoliSci]

9. this sickens me.

even those convicted of the rape got a barbaric sentence.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wuushew]

16. Why are they Muslim values?

Is such divine punishment specifically called for in the text of the Koran?


It would be more appropriate to simply call them Saudi values.

[LostinVA]

20. Agreed n/t

[wickerwoman]

30. Yes.

The Koran calls for 100 lashes for someone who has sex outside of marriage. The Hadith prescribes death by stoning.

This kind of shit happens all over the Muslim world. Pretending it's confined to Saudi Arabia is simply disingenuous.

From a Muslim perspective, she's getting off lightly because she wasn't killed.

[PsychoDad]

33. The Quran also requires 4 eyewitnesses...

To the act of extramarital sex. Four eyewitnesses of the same sex act, otherwise the case is to be dismissed.

Here alone the saudis seem to be at odds of the evidence required by the Quran.

2nd, the Quran proscribes no punishment for being alone with a member of the opposite sex. Indeed the Quran rebukes those who were spreading rumors after Ayeasha, wife of the Prophet, became lost in the desert and was found and brought home by a passing stranger. No blame is placed upon her or the man she was alone with, instead a warning is given to those who would spread baseless accusations and judge without evidence.

3rd, punishments in the Quran should not be based as the norm but as the absolute worst that can be proscribed with the concept of mercy being the overriding factor in the minds and hearts of the judges. It should be remembered at the time these punishments were listed they were an improvement upon the pre-Islamic culture and in many cases were revolutionary. Simular punishments were the norm worldwide, it would not be until later that the Quakers would revolutionize the way punishment and rehabilitation were administered. The Quran, along with these limits on punishment also calls for mercy and social justice to be used in all cases and with forgiveness and reconciliation where possible.

In the light of Islam, what the Saudis are doing here is wrong.


Peace.

[wickerwoman]

53. That's all well and good

and completely beside the point.

Are you seriously going to argue that "honor killings" in the 21st century are confined to Saudi Arabia? Or that the vast, vast majority of them don't take place in the context of Islam?

[ronnie624]

42. Then maybe Western powers

should quit installing dictatorships such as the House of Saud in the "Muslim world" (must make certain we keep "us" isolated from "them").

And pretending this sort of "shit" (the regular and frequent brutalization of women by men for whatever reason) doesn't happen in the "Western world" is also disingenuous....and quite hypocritical I might add.

[wickerwoman]

52. Who's pretending that it doesn't happen in the West?

Certainly not me. But it is canonized in the Islamic world.

When was the last time an American court sentenced a rape victim to any punishment whatsoever let alone 90 lashes? Can you even concieve of such a thing happening under the current legal and ethical norms?

I didn't think so.

[Vidar]

17. What's barbaric is that this could be construed as an improvement.

Usually, they go for death. Saudi Arabia is the country we should have levelled.

[ronnie624]

43. We should have leveled Saui Arabia?

And murdered hundreds of thousands of the very women you claim to care so deeply for?


:crazy:

[Vidar]

45. OK, inappropriate gut reaction.

[FormerOstrich]

19. I wonder....

you think you wouldn't have to but you do....are the husband and family appealing the court for harsher penalties against the wife (victim) and her male friend or against the perpetrators?

One of the rapists only received 80 lashes.

I can't even imagine living under such.

[TexasLawyer]

23. moral of the story

Don't report rape in Saudi Arabia. Just let the rapists be rapists.

Alternate moral: Just don't be a female in Saudi Arabia.

[geek tragedy]

24. Or, don't be in Saudi-occupied Arabia period.

What a barbaric regime.

[MasonJar]

25. Boy, the Muslims and the Southern Baptists are neck and neck

for the most un-religious religions on the face of the earth. I am really sick of these atrocities against women. Of course in Iraq under Sadaam, women had many rights. Bush fixed that in a hurry. These young ladies grew up expecting a different life. I hope that each and every one of them escapes.

[brentspeak]

37. Last I saw, the S.Baptists haven't sentenced rape victims to be lashed

You did know that Bill Clinton is a Southern Baptist? Still attends S.Baptists services.

[Bill McBlueState]

41. "un-religious religions"

I don't know about that. When you look at the history of religion in the world, repressive treatment of women is one of its trademarks. I'd say the strain of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia is the logical continuation of thousands of years of religious observance. It takes non-religious thinking to break that cycle.

[remfan]

26. A good measure of a country is in how they treat women

Saudi Arabia fails miserably.

[Critters2]

27. Our good friends the Saudis

This makes me sick!

[JerseygirlCT]

28. And these pigs are our good friends.

How can we be so stupid?

Saddam was a problem? These people (the Saudi gov't) are monsters.

[Canuckistanian]

29. I hope the fundies aren't getting any ideas

It's the next logical step for them.

[nealmhughes]

31. I have heard that copies of the Wilhelm Tell cannot be sold in S.A.

due to the rousing overture getting the locals riled up with that new-fangled stuff like peasant uprisings against the aristocrats (Austrian governor) which implies that a democracy (13th Century Swiss cantons) means that God would not will the aristocrats to rule, ergo, lose the aristocrats, lose God...

Unfortunately, the aristocrats can be replaced by new scum just as easily and the BS will still continue, only now in God's name, instead of just because He willed you to have your place.

I would imagine that underground copies of Tom Paine and Voltaire in Arabic sell like hot cakes in Arabia...

How much of that stuff is actually Islam and how much is tradition that has the force of tradition? I know that Mohammed's wife was a merchant and that he stopped unwanted infant females being buried in the sand alive...and wasn't the whole veil thing really about modesty and not being cloaked and gagged?

[wickerwoman]

32. I read that more books are translated into Spanish

every year than have been translated into Arabic ever.

I'd be surprised if Arabic copies of Tom Paine and Voltaire even exist.

I think a lot of Westerners have a difficult time wrapping their heads around how insular life in an Islamic country really is. Hence the "They really want to be free- they'll welcome us with flowers and ticker-tape parades" type thinking that got so many American kids killed in Iraq.

[saigon68]

34. And thousands more will be killed

before this madness for Halliburton profits ends

[jmowreader]

46. The sentences handed down to the RAPISTS are no picnic either

Well, except for the fourth guy who ONLY got a year in a Saudi prison and 80 lashes.

I did some searching...when the Saudis sentence you to be flogged, a whip that's about five feet long, with a lead weight on the end, is used. The person to be flogged is dressed in a T-shirt and jogging pants, then handcuffed to a post. If the sentence is for one hundred lashes, or less, all lashes are administered at one time. Persons sentenced to more than one hundred lashes receive 50 lashes every two weeks. Amnesty International reports that the prisoner is unable to sleep or sit for three to four days after the flogging.

[Jamastiene]

57. Well, technically, that IS one way to get a rapist to

lose some sleep over what they did, I guess. Lord knows they won't lose any sleep otherwise. :eyes:

[LynneSin]

47. And people are telling me I shouldn't buy Citgo gas

I think gas from a country run by Hugo Chavez is a hell of alot better than Saudi gas

[NuttyFluffers]

48. this would be the screwed up problems of SA i was talking about.

grew up with many a story like these. kinda get inured to them, but yes it must be very shocking for all of you. i remember that shortly upon arrival we were in a town doing a public beheading. all westerners were pushed to the front of the audience, even if they had children, to show you the consequence of getting out of line. i was three years old, and thankfully there was a kind merchant who allowed my family and i to stay out of the crowd, so I didn't have to face the full effect. but outside of crazy drivers and other forms of negligent homicide it felt like an incredibly safe place. for the most part there's a very low crime rate.

[Tight_rope]

54. WAIT!...THEY RAPE ME AND THEN COURTS BEAT ME FOR IT!

I guess this is one of those times Im glad to be in America.

[JI7]

55. these are our allies

[jmowreader]

58. I just re-read the details of the incident. This is REALLY fucked up...

According to Sharia law, which Our Great President has absolutely no trouble with because of his wonderful relations with the House of Saud, a woman's crime of leaving the house with a man she's not related to is punishable by 90 lashes.

A man's crime of leaving the house with a woman he's not married to is also punishable by 90 lashes.

Let's leave the gang rape out of this (it's hard, I know, but let's at least try) and focus on the fact that in the year 2006, not only is there a country in the world that considers the act of leaving your house in the company of a member of the opposite sex you're not related to a crime worthy of being handcuffed to a post and beaten with a lead-tipped whip for half an hour...but that the leaders of this country, who could eradicate this law with the stroke of a pen and a five-minute speech, are among our president's dearest friends and staunchest allies.