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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 02:58 PM Original message |
Cuban dad breaks down in custody case (American trial) |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:00 PM Response to Original message |
1. Cuban dad questioned about sex life (yesterday in court) |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:05 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. I don't get it... |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:16 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. The girl has never lived with her father, who allowed her to |
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redqueen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:19 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. I tend to lean more towards the views expressed in post #3. n/t |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:12 PM Response to Reply #7 |
22. So do I. |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:59 PM Response to Reply #4 |
12. Thank you. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:03 PM Response to Reply #12 |
15. The Miami Herald sent a reporter into Cuba who interviewed neighbors |
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MisterP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:53 PM Response to Reply #15 |
76. can I have a link to that Herald piece you mentioned? I've only started following this story n/t |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 08:17 PM Response to Reply #76 |
79. Here it is: Dad's neighbors in Cuba say he should raise Coral Gables girl |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 12:05 AM Response to Reply #79 |
86. "Nobody can say he wasn't a good father" ?? |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 12:44 PM Response to Reply #86 |
95. I see you're peddling the same red herring on this thread. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 03:03 PM Response to Reply #95 |
98. The point is as relevant in this thread as it was in the other. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 05:15 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. What is interesting that you fail to take Miami's politics into account |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 04:41 AM Response to Reply #99 |
107. Mika, the judge admitted the political dimension of this case! Today's article from the Herald: |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 01:27 PM Response to Reply #99 |
110. the jurisdiction is in fact in a Florida court right now. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 06:08 PM Response to Reply #110 |
114. Virtually all of the same circumstances of the Elian case. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-21-07 10:38 AM Response to Reply #98 |
132. What is interesting to me is how many "complexities" arise... |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-21-07 10:35 AM Response to Reply #86 |
131. There's that famous family court presumption of innocence. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:17 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Doesn't matter who the kid is, or the parent, as long as anyone is Cuban, |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:18 PM Response to Reply #2 |
6. The mother has told the court, and told people in Miami LONG ago, that she wants the child |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:48 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. The mother gave up custody of the girl, |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:50 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. The father has not relinquished custody, as you know. n/t |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:55 PM Response to Reply #9 |
10. Obviously. That's why the case is in Court. |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:01 PM Response to Reply #9 |
14. So he hasn't signed a piece of paper |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 08:11 PM Response to Reply #14 |
102. Good thing that you aren't a family court judge. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 08:51 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. People in any other town would never be this brazen about their dirty politics! |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:05 PM Response to Reply #9 |
17. did the father even have custody? |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:10 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. The father signed papers allowing the mother and her two children |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:14 PM Response to Reply #21 |
26. well now, thank you. Its good to hear more than one side of the story |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:18 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. If you go to google "news" and type in "Izquierdo" |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #29 |
33. Exactly! |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:38 PM Response to Reply #33 |
40. That older brother has been the only constant in the little girl's life. |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:44 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Some of my kids are adopted |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:51 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. I completely understand. |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:59 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. Totally get that! |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:36 PM Response to Reply #50 |
60. I don't know. I've seen too many of these cases |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:47 PM Response to Reply #60 |
67. Thanks. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:37 PM Response to Reply #29 |
39. Then your concern should be whith the Fla DCF. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:40 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. I'm not aware that when they allowed the adoption of the brother |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:26 PM Response to Reply #41 |
58. It is the DCF's responsibility to discover whether or not the dad's position on adoption. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:37 PM Response to Reply #58 |
61. So I guess the answer is no, you don't have a link? |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:51 PM Response to Reply #61 |
68. I don't have a link to something that was never discovered at that time. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:18 PM Response to Reply #68 |
72. But the problem is that in the meantime |
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Billy Burnett (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 05:58 PM Response to Reply #72 |
100. Please post a link of expert testimony that the child has bonded with the Cubas family. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 11:03 PM Response to Reply #100 |
105. The Cubas family is the SECOND CUSTODIAL FAMILY for these kids. |
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Billy Burnett (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 10:11 AM Response to Reply #105 |
109. Thanks Mika. It is becoming clearer now. |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 02:53 PM Response to Reply #109 |
111. That's not uncommon in foster care circles |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:47 PM Response to Reply #21 |
44. The US state dept wouldn't grant him a visa to visit. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 02:59 AM Response to Reply #44 |
106. That's priceless, Mika. He threw out a term which set off an alarm from several years ago. |
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midlife_mo_Jo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 05:05 PM Response to Reply #106 |
113. Bull! |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:58 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. It should not be covered up that although the U.S. Government ALWAYS |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:06 PM Response to Reply #11 |
18. Where is your evidence, other than her extremely unreliable testimony, |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:13 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. The evidence would be that she receives NO MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:21 PM Response to Reply #24 |
31. If it isn't debatable, then show me. Where can I look this up? |
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erpowers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:25 PM Response to Reply #11 |
57. What I thought |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:08 PM Response to Reply #8 |
19. The mother never signed an adoption agreement. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:12 PM Response to Reply #19 |
23. The papers, if they existed, have been lost. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:33 PM Response to Reply #23 |
36. The Fla DCF have a record of lies also. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:41 PM Response to Reply #36 |
42. I don't know who he is. Is there something about him |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:50 PM Response to Reply #42 |
46. he is a wealthy Cuban-American |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:53 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. Yeah, right. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:05 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. The question was - why did the DCF pick him. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:32 PM Response to Reply #52 |
59. Because they were licensed foster parents. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:39 PM Response to Reply #59 |
63. If they didn't know at that time, they know now. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:47 PM Response to Reply #63 |
66. What you call "persecuting" him, I call |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:54 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. Their job is to enforce the law. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:15 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Their job is to protect children. The police are there to enforce the law. n/t |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:00 PM Response to Reply #42 |
51. If you don't know who he is, then you have no idea of Miami politics. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:44 PM Response to Reply #51 |
64. No, and I don't care about the politics. Not a bit. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:51 PM Response to Reply #36 |
48. What I've seen is creepy. Here's something from a Miami Herald cache: |
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Maat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 03:11 PM Response to Original message |
3. Retired social worker here. |
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kskiska (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:00 PM Response to Original message |
13. Are any of these people U.S. citizens? |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:04 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. because the child is in the US and the foster father is requesting custody |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:16 PM Response to Reply #16 |
27. That's not what the 11th circuit court (and the supreme court) though in the Elian case. |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:17 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. what international agreement? |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:23 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. It would stand to reason he's referring to the (Jesse)Helms-Burton, and the related legislation |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. no it does not stand to reason that this is about Helms-Burton |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:07 PM Response to Reply #28 |
53. The Hague Convention on International Child Custody. |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:58 PM Response to Reply #53 |
77. wrong!! the Hague Convention applies to abduction. this was not an abduction |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 12:01 AM Response to Reply #77 |
85. It's an interesting argument they're trying to make, isn't it? |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 07:26 PM Response to Reply #85 |
101. Interesting denials also. |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 09:10 PM Response to Reply #101 |
104. call his lawyer about your abduction theory |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:20 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. There was a jurisdictional dispute in that case. There is no such dispute |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:15 PM Response to Reply #30 |
55. The jurisdiction in the Elian case was not even considered in Miami family courts. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:46 PM Response to Reply #55 |
65. In this case all the parties have agreed to accept jurisdiction here. n/t |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:09 PM Response to Reply #13 |
20. Both parents are Cuban nationals. Both parents want to return to Cuba. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:13 PM Response to Reply #13 |
25. The parents have agreed to have this decided by a U.S. Court. |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:21 PM Response to Reply #25 |
56. The dad has no choice as long as the DCF case continues. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:16 PM Response to Reply #56 |
71. The father did have a choice. He could have objected to the case |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 10:40 PM Response to Reply #71 |
83. That's it!! |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 11:55 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. I couldn't care less about the Cuba/US aspects of this case. |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 02:02 AM Response to Reply #84 |
87. What was his option? |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 02:14 AM Response to Reply #87 |
89. It's only "irrelevant" because in your mind DNA trumps everything. |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 02:22 AM Response to Reply #89 |
91. Don't pull that sexist crap on me, please... |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 02:59 PM Response to Reply #91 |
97. I think you're over-identifying with the father to the point |
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FreakinDJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:31 PM Response to Original message |
35. Easier to be like Mary Winkler - Shoot first Run off with children |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:37 PM Response to Original message |
37. Have to step away, evening plans. Will check back. n/t |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:37 PM Response to Reply #37 |
38. thanks for bringing this to our attention |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:42 PM Response to Reply #38 |
74. Oh come now, no need to that... |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 04:49 PM Response to Original message |
45. here is one of the "inconsistencies" the judge apparently noted |
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David__77 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:45 PM Response to Reply #45 |
75. Do you think he should not be given custody? |
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Bacchus39 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 08:08 PM Response to Reply #75 |
78. I don't particularly have a strong opinion on custody |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 10:03 PM Response to Reply #78 |
82. And it is interesting that the politics seem to be so crucial here, |
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erpowers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:09 PM Response to Original message |
54. Man Deserves His Kid |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 07:22 PM Response to Reply #54 |
73. He "deserves" the child because he provided the DNA? |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 09:34 PM Response to Reply #73 |
80. No. He is responsible for the child now that the mother has (supposedly) given up custody. |
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pnwmom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 10:01 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. This little five year old has spent two years bonding with another family. |
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ProudDad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 02:06 AM Response to Reply #81 |
88. So what |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 02:19 AM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Deleted message |
erpowers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 08:28 AM Response to Reply #73 |
94. Yes |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-11-07 05:38 PM Response to Original message |
62. Thanks for bringing this up -- k & r -- your top photo pretty much says it all. Ugh. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 04:15 AM Response to Original message |
92. The Herald added a bit of new information to the same story, later in the day: |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 05:45 AM Response to Original message |
93. Caption: |
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peacetalksforall (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-12-07 02:37 PM Response to Original message |
96. Your paragraph nailed it - brilliant! You said it all - decades of it. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 09:56 AM Response to Original message |
108. Some clearer language from the judge, for what it's worth: |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 04:32 PM Response to Reply #108 |
112. Thanks for staying on top of this story Judi Lynn n/t |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 06:33 PM Response to Reply #112 |
115. Welcome! We'll be watching this one really closely until it's actual conclusion, |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-13-07 07:38 PM Response to Reply #115 |
116. Remember how long it took for Elian to get home? |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-14-07 04:30 PM Response to Reply #116 |
118. We've definitely seen it all before! Since they are so wildly ready to dive right back in there, |
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Scurrilous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-14-07 03:14 PM Response to Original message |
117. Cuban dad's lawyers will call no witnesses |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Sep-15-07 02:11 PM Response to Original message |
119. Miami Herald: Testimony ends in battle over girl, 5 |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Sep-15-07 05:48 PM Response to Reply #119 |
120. They've decided they want to replay Elián all over again, and get the outcome they want this time! |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 01:44 AM Response to Original message |
121. You might appreciate seeing the sheer size of the force the state is using against the father: |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 09:56 AM Response to Reply #121 |
122. People with their head in the sand don't think this is about politics. |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 10:23 AM Response to Reply #122 |
123. I think more likely, they are busy (as is most of Miami) kissing Expat ASS. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-17-07 02:26 PM Response to Reply #123 |
124. That's the way it has been until 1996, when the Cuban lobby in Congress got their |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-20-07 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
125. Judge blames all for Cuban girl's plight |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-20-07 09:43 AM Response to Reply #125 |
126. You're right, there. They will remember this event for years from now, won't they? |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-20-07 10:09 AM Response to Reply #126 |
127. What amazes me is her repetition of this canard.. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Sep-20-07 10:28 AM Response to Reply #127 |
128. If she EVEN resorts to that matter, which was clarified already, it makes it seem very possible |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-21-07 05:31 AM Response to Original message |
129. Travesty of justice: The state of Florida against Rafael Izquierdo |
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Mika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Sep-21-07 07:47 AM Response to Original message |
130. Cuban child custody cases piling up |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Sep-22-07 02:08 AM Response to Reply #130 |
133. That's so damned odd. They should at least pretend to be doing the right thing here. |
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