Atlanta police charge boys, 8 and 9, with rape.

[Dr.Phool]

Source: MSNBC. com

updated 1 hour, 56 minutes ago

ACWORTH, Ga. - Three boys ages 8 and 9 were being held Monday in a detention center on charges of kidnapping and raping an 11-year-old girl in the woods near a suburban apartment complex, officials said.

The alleged attack happened Thursday and the girl's mother reported it to authorities Sunday, Acworth police Capt. Wayne Dennard said.

"The juvenile victim stated that an 8-year-old boy and two 9-year-old boys that she had been playing with earlier pulled her into a wooded area, where one of the boys raped her," Dennard said.

(snip)

Prosecutors have not decided whether to try the suspects as adults.

"That decision hasn't been made," said Kathy Watkins, a spokeswoman for the Cobb County District Attorney's office. She had no further comment.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21882354/

---

Is this even possible? I don't think I was even capable of a sex act at 8 or 9 years old, much less rape.

And, I know there's a lot of stupidity in Cobb County, Georgia, but considering charging them as adults is incomprehensible.

[iconoclastic cat]

1. As far as the act being possible,

I wonder if "rape" in a legal context means forced genital-to-genital contact, or if it could entail other acts of a violent sexual nature.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

29. Either way WTH?

In a handbasket....

[noonwitch]

58. I figured that an object may have been used

But I'm sure there are the occasion 8 or 9 year old boys who are able to rape someone.

[LiberalFighter]

2. At the most they need to spread the rumor that their weewee was whacked off

They could announce that the boy(s) are recovering in the hospital after the girl had whacked it(them) off with a knife.

Or the boys were retrieved but it was discovered that vigilantes took matters into their own hands.

Or announce that the court ordered it whacked off.

[hlthe2b]

3. Wow... you seem to have a "whacking" imagination there...

This is a horrible situation and these boys need to pay for their crime, the girl needs counseling, the boys likely need counseling, and there needs to be comprehensive sex education in the schools that includes an emphasis on behavior. But, let's leave the mutilation fantasies elsewhere, ok? :shrug:

[LiberalFighter]

28. DID I SAY TO DO IT?

NO! I stated start a rumor to that effect to scare the hell of any other kids that have any thoughts of doing the same thing. There is a difference between doing it for real and making kids think it will happen to them if they do the same thing.

[hlthe2b]

33. I"m sure we all understand & relate to where you are coming from.

But, a new generation of youngster Lorena Bobbitts is probably not a good thing ;-)

[hlthe2b]

4. Newt's old district... just saying...

[sam sarrha]

5. we had a boy in juvenile prison,1st sexual assault by 9, 1st rape by 11, first rape with a deadly

weapon with threat of death at 14, he escaped at 17 and tried to kidnap a 6 year old .. not too unusual a story for this disorder

the condition in the 80's was called anti social personality disorder. they usually end up in later life going on a crime spree till they are caught.. life is a lot better for them in prison, they like it there.

[cboy4]

6. There are a lot of unanswered questions involving

this case, but it wouldn't surprise me if the boy accused of the actual rape has been sexually assaulted himself.

At any rate, it's insane to think the DA would even consider trying these boys as adults.

[rodeodance]

7. STATES HAVE DIFFERENT DEGREES OF RAPE-PENETRATION IS NOT

ALWAYS NECESSARY.

[TroglodyteScholar]

27. I'd say there needs to be an immediate hearing...

...to determine whether the alleged offenders' parents are mentally fit to raise children.

Edit: alleged

[McCamy Taylor]

8. Is it possible to try an 8 year old as an adult? Is he even old enough for juvie?

[ThomCat]

14. That was my first thought too.

How the fuck can they even consider trying 8 and 9 year old kids as adults? And if they can, then basically trying a kid as a kid becomes a privilage.

Any "privilage" in the criminal justice system just becomes one more way to enforce unequal justice.

This whole situation stinks. If they're guilty I hope they get an appropriate evaluation and therapy. If necessary I hope they get additional restrictions and help. But there is no way that children that young should be tried as adults.

:wtf:

[downindixie]

9. In this case the fAther of one of the eight yo;s says

That the girl was a willing participant and only cried rape after her parents found out!

[hashibabba]

11. Of coruse he said that.

The girl might not have known what to call it until her parents found out.

[boricua79]

13. or maybe it's true

i've worked as a teacher and I can't tell you how many times female elementary and middle schools have cried wolf on the whole "sexual harrassment by a teacher" thing. Sometimes girls DO cry foul when it's not true. Need I remind everyone of the lacrosse players? Or Kobe Bryant's accuser, who claimed rape, and withdrew her case after it was found out that she had more than 3 different types of semen on her undergarments (talk about promiscuity!)

The details are not out. ANYTHING is possible. Innocent until proven guilty, folks...either we believe in our system of laws or we don't.

[LostinVA]

31. Ugh -- sickening

1.) blaming the victim

2.) Spreading the urban myth about Bryant's victim

Welcome to Ignore.

[boricua79]

52. what the hell?

I didn't blame the victim and I speak from experience! I'm a teacher... I see it daily! There's been at least 3 cases of false sexual harrassment accusations against teachers in our school (later found out to have been cases of female students attempting to get back at teachers who had disciplined for legitimate reasons). Unless you are in a school yourself and have experienced that, how can you possibly, blanket deny this?

Putting me on ignore for that was very childish and cowardly.

As for my Kobe Bryant mention, here you go, buddy. - http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9406E3DF143CF937A3575BC0A9629C8B63

And I quote from the article,

"The only witness to testify at the hearing was Dr. Elizabeth A. Johnson, a defense expert in forensic DNA analysis. Dr. Johnson said she had detected semen from a second man on various samples. The second man's DNA was present, she said, in and on the woman, on what prosecutors called ''the purple G-string'' she wore when she met Mr. Bryant and on yellow underwear she wore to the physical examination the next day."

Is it completely true? I don't know. All I know is that this issue has been reported. And if it's in the public domain, why assume it's an urban myth? And if it wasn't true, how come the girl never fought the rape case till the end. I distinctly remember her dropping the case right after details of her previous sexual encounters came to light.

It's perfectly legitimate to mention this on a post, and I backed up with a story. The day that they discredit this issue, I'll gladly accept the scientific findings.

But, until then, my post did no wrong and I was not wrong to post that it's POSSIBLE that this can be another case of false accusations. I'm all for investigating and finding out the truth, whatever it may be. But, I'm not going to get on the "they're guilty" bandwagon just yet.

[Deep13]

20. IF that is true, then who is the statutory rapist?

The younger boys or the older girl?

[LisaL]

35. Would be neither, as they are all under-age.

[Deep13]

54. yup, not enough of an age difference n/t

[LostinVA]

30. That's sickening

[hlthe2b]

37. I about spewed when I saw that...

How can an 11 yo be a "willing participant." He implies she is, rather than a impressionable child, a little seductive hussy... Sorry, but even the most precocious, most seemingly sexual female child, is still a child. That was disgusting and certainly NOT the excuse he wants to pursue in the court of public opinion, or at least mine. It remains to be seen what happened, but that is an absurd comment for the Father to make.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. Uh, if the girl was not a willing participant...

because she is a child, then what of the boys?

[hlthe2b]

43. they are chldren.. either engaged in inappropriate, but

quite possibly "unforced" exploratory sexual behavior OR as has been alleged, violent forced sexual behavior. It is totally unclear what the facts are. I argue against consensual behavior with respect specifically to the Father's attempt to paint the girl as the seductress. She could have been a "willing" participant as far as precocious and inappropriate sexual behaviors, certainly.

Bottom line, they are all children--possibly children with severe emotional problems. (Or not) Let's follow the facts where they lead.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

44. willing and consensual are synonymous.

Perhaps you're confusing "consensual" with "sensual?"

[hlthe2b]

46. NO! Consensual is a legal term and requires adulthood or at .

least a defined minimum age. The age varies somewhat state by state.

Confusing "consensual with sensual?" Did you really mean to be so condescending and insulting?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. No, "consensual" is just a word meaning the same thing as "willing"

An eleven year old cannot to have sex with an adult, the legal term means nothing when you're dealing with kids.

"Confusing "consensual with sensual?" Did you really mean to be so condescending and insulting? "

I really thought you don't know what consensual means.

[hlthe2b]

48. It is a legally-defined specific term

There are many aspects of underage sexual behavior that are unclear in terms of the law in many states and this is why the prosecutor is struggling here. But a child can not consent to sex. They may, however engage willingly and statutory rape does not come into play unless there is an adult involved. So, here we have children. Forceble rape is still possible or they may have engaged in sexual activity willingly. Consensual is a legal term and does not come into play with children, although the lay public will certainly use it.

Our previous discussions have been cordial, mutually respectful and generally constructive. I'd like to think we could continue in that vein.

[ladjf]

10. There is some missing information here.

On average, girls are a year or two more mature than boys. Many, if not most, children that young participate in heterosexual games of exploration, i.e. "you show me yours and I'll show you mine".

Personally, I've never heard of any case where a 3rd grade child had intercourse with anyone other than an adult sex predator. That doesn't mean it has never happened.

How did a third grader and a couple of forth graders manage to kidnap an eleven year old girl and drag her into the woods? That's not making much sense.

And in any event, how could the D.A. even dream of charging them as adults? That could mean jail sentences of 10 to 30 years if guilty and a lifetime label of sexual predators. Their lives would basically be over.

[boricua79]

if you ask me

I don't think there was a kidnapping here. As a former "you show me yours and I'll show you mine" game player, I remember my own little trysts to the forest with girls. It was one of the few places that we both had for some privacy to mess around.

I'm waiting for more details on this story, but I have a funny feeling this is a case of sexual exploration that went wrong, people being embarrassed, and false claims.

[hlthe2b]

38. This could be... I recall some pretty aggressive male touching

behavior perpetrated on girls in the later elementary school and junior high years...It was really a tough situation because the "less popular" girls often thought it was a way to make them more popular unless they all banded together to stop it and put the boys in their place. Pre-teen girls are so vulnerable and often too embarrassed to say anything.


Given how sexual the messages are in advertising, movies, and elsewhere (and conversely, how absent sex education is that would teach appropriate sexual behaviors), it would not surprise me if the touching has gotten a bit more extensive and might be occurring among younger kids...

[depakid]

49. "how could the D.A. even dream of charging them as adults? "

Because it's Georgia....

[boricua79]

12. definitely brutal, but they're kids...

I'm opposed to their being tried as adults. For god's sakes, they're 8 and 9 year olds. There's no way the can rationally understand the severity of their actions. There is obviously some social and moral underdevelopment being evidenced by this crime, but to try them as adult would be extreme. My other question...where's the freaking parents? How is your 8 year old out and about raping kids? Somebody failed at the parenting job, methinks.

What I'd propose are:

1) parole style limits to their activities. Night curfews of no more than 9 or 10:00 P.M. (until 18). While they would be free to live their lives and attempt to build something positive out of it, they're not gonna live a lavish lifestyle of hanging out late at clubs with friends. Tough love is needed.
2) Mandatory participation in character-building activities, such as working for a charity or doing community work (until they were 18).
3) Mandatory psychological therapy and instruction on manners, morality, and right/wrong (until 18)
4) Mandatory participation in some sort of academic tutoring program, to make sure they're working hard in school, getting the help they need to succeed, and making sure that they are forced to set aside some time for homework.

Definitely curtail their freedom, but not in a way that doesn't do anything to rehabilitate them and show them the wrong aspect of their actions. What these kids need is a disciplined life of academic, social, moral, and other instructions. They lack that.

[DetlefK]

15. A lot of questions...

Did they know what they were doing?
I don't think a 9 year old can get a boner. But can a such a child get sexually aroused? (I seriously doubt that. Puberty couldn't have changed their brain by this age.)
Did they know, that they were doing something inappropriate?
Is the girl saying "This was rape" or is it the mother?



I remember a case that happened a few years ago (don't remember country or date):
An (approximately) 6 year old boy and his (approximately) 3 years old sister. She wanted to pee, went to a bush and lifted her skirt. Her brother came over and touched her between the legs (maybe to pull down her underpants or whatever).
Guess what? An adult (not a parent!) saw this and the boy was charged with sexual assault and taken into custody.

[Shakespeare]

16. Yes, a 9-year-old can get an erection.

Hell, a 9-day-old can get an erection. Erections are physically possible from birth; it's ejaculation that comes with puberty.

[endarkenment]

17. Prosecutors have not decided whether to try the suspects as adults.

Uh, here is a clue: a 9 year old is a child.

[japple]

18. Whatever happens in this case, let us all pray that it

doesn't follow in the same direction as the Genarlow Wilson case. Sex cases in Georgia sometimes take interesting turns.

[wellst0nev0ter]

19. Let's Hope They'd At Least Prosecute Them Like A White School Teacher

turned child molester. :eyes:

[Bo]

21. Boys under 10 accused of raping girl

Source: AJC-Kennesaw,Ga.

Three boys charged with raping an 11-year-old girl were in Cobb County Juvenile Court on Monday afternoon.

Reporters were allowed into the courtroom briefly to make arguments for access to the hearing. Prosecutors and defense attorneys argued the media was not allowed. Judge Gregory Poole found the law did not permit media access the hearing.



Read more: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2007/11/19/assault_1119.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

---

I live about 3 miles from where this happened, the entire community is in Shock.

[Mountainman]

22. Well, this should make for a long thread.

Let's see, how old do you have to be to have sex? Well boys and girls, mommies and daddies, stick around and you DUer friends will give you about 10 different ages and if you're lucking some personal anecdotal information.

[Dora]

23. Those boys learned it from somewhere.

Abuse is a chain.

[CottonBear]

24. The father of one of the boys is saying it was consensual sex.

The authorities said that's impossible. They are WAY under the age of consent. What the boys did was illegal and criminal.

Damn. I wonder what kind of fucked up home life that they must have? :(
You've got to wonder if they had been abused or molested. :(

[tammywammy]

25. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3071103

[Deep13]

26. Well, they are getting this behavior from somewhere.

I doubt it is a case of history repeating itself too. Usually child molesters go after childen the same age as they were when the molester was first molested. In this case the defendants are younger than the victim.

Sorry, but I think repeated expose to violence by the media shapes a child's brain into thinking it is normal.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

40. Huh?

Are you blaming child molesters, or violent movies and video games?

[Deep13]

55. Blame is such an obsolete concept.

I was thinking the cause might be frequent exposure to violent media.

[NotGivingUp]

57. I totally agree...and anybody who can't make the connection needs to improve their thinking skills.

[Ellen Forradalom]

32. There is a case involving boys the same age in California

http://www.theacorn.com/news/2007/1115/Front_Page/001.html

I wonder how appropriate the term 'sodomy' is in connection with eight-year-old boys.

[surfermaw]

34. In my day in Georgia it was called playing doctor

[LisaL]

36. Well, if somebody pulled this 11 year old child into the woods,

as allegedly, I hardly see how you can call this "playing doctor."

[hlthe2b]

41. touching, maybe... but certainly not penentration, IF that occurred.

It is very unclear what, exactly DID occur at this point... However it comes out, there is clearly a tragic event here unfolding.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. actually...

with young children a small percentage of "playing doctor" can go as far as penetration.

So the father's argument that it was consensual is plausible.

[hlthe2b]

45. Anything is possible. But unwise for him to throw out that

allegation at this junction, if you ask me... I doubt too many people will automatically buy into the 11 yo female as likely to have had this kind of role.

[LostinVA]

53. Unwanted sexual touching and/or intercourse isn't "playing doctor"

It's sexual assault, regardless of the age.

[DemBones DemBones]

50. There were kids in a K-3 school having sex during recess

back in the mid-Seventies. My daughter attended that school and kids would sneak into the woods at recess. K-3 students!

Her husband says this went on in his school (different state) with kids the same ages.

[PittPoliSci]

51. try an 8 year old as an adult?

i don't care how heinous the crime was, that is ridiculous.

[TalkingDog]

56. Tumescence is possible at that age...actually since birth....

Which is how circumcisions are routinely performed. They stimulate the penis to create a response, then cut it. (so your earliest encoded memory of sexual arousal is also forever linked with pain...nice eh? -Watching a nurse relate this little factiod with guilty racked tears is why I became anti-circumcision)

If tumescence is possible, so is rape by penetration. The real problem: at that age sex or rape should not be something they are even aware of. This most likely indicates that at least one of these young boys was sexually abused or assaulted prior to this.




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