Kucinich booted from Iowa debate

[seafan]

Source: The Hill

December 12, 2007

Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D) is being excluded from this week’s Iowa presidential debate because he has not rented office space in the Hawkeye State, his campaign said Wednesday.

The Des Moines Register informed the campaign that Kucinich is not invited because the newspaper determined “that a person working out of his home did not meet our criteria for a campaign office and full-time paid staff in Iowa,” the campaign said.

.....

The campaign blasted the decision to exclude the lawmaker from the debate.

“The Iowa caucuses have been portrayed as having national implications, and if the Register has decided to use hair-splitting technicalities to exclude the leading voice of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, then the entire process is suspect,” the campaign said in a statement about the “arbitrary and unreasonable exclusion.”

Read more: http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/kucinich-booted-from-iowa-debate-2007-12-12.html

[meegbear]

1. Hair-splitting technicalities indeed!

[kenfrequed]

39. A travesty

Iowa cannot defend its position as having a "right" to being the first primary state while electing to omit candidates from debates they hold. Usually you aren't supposed to exclude candidates from debates until after at least there has been a friggin vote.

Iowa is abusing its position.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

69. Isn't this typical of politics - they drown who may upset the applecart?

[Truth2Tell]

261. Yes. Dennis is doing things differently

He plans to stay in this race - even with his somewhat limited resources. So he doesn't intend to blow everything on the first state. And yes, sometimes he spends money on high profile celebrity type events - but he's looking for mass media exposure - trying to reach a wider national audience.

He's in this to win it and unlike some others he's not putting all his money on Iowa or New Hampshire or South Carolina and then planning to drop out if he doesn't win a big one.

Let's all face the facts - Dennis is just as serious about this race as Dodd or Gravel or any of the others. His exclusion is based on the fact that much of what he says makes the top tier candidates and the Party leadership very uncomfortable.

Trying to rationalize this decision as anything else just makes those who do it sound like arrogant complicit anti-democratic drones. Pathetic really. Our Party should be better than this... but we're not.

[taylor egv420106]

106. Oh please

Iowa isnt throwing the debate, the NEWSPAPER is, and as such they have every right to invite whoever the hell they want. You want to complain that they are only inviting legitimate candidates? Or do you oppose freedom of the press?

[Name removed]

147. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Debi]

185. Welcome to DU taylor!

:hi:

Don't let the fire-pants here get you down. On off-caucus years DU is a great place to be :7

[Dora]

283. Kucinich's candidacy is as LEGITIMATE as any of the others.

His viability as a candidate is what people like to argue about.

I think the distinction between "viability" and "legitimacy" is important. Personally, I used to think that Kucinich wasn't strong enough, charming enough, etc.. In other words, he wasn't "viable" enough, even though I agreed with his platform. Then I did some reading, I spoke to some Kucinich supporters about what attracted them to him as a candidate, and then I did some more reading and watched some video clips.

He's the ONLY one for me.

His exclusion from the debate is petty, or worse.

[robinlynne]

323. or even more legitimate. that's the problem.

[ooglymoogly]

301. Of cours you meant freedom of the corporate propaganda mills.

I can however see that you are a good Churman

[Sherman A1]

327. Agreed

I would much rather the newspaper include everyone, but this particular debate is their game and their call. I suppose we could write some charming letters to the editor there and flood his email box with commentary, but it still is their game. My response to their choice will be to not listen, watch or read about their debate as that is my choice as a DK supporter. Things cut both ways in this world.




:think:

[still_one]

401. By saying that Kucinich isn't a legitimate candidate you have probably at least

encouraged some Kucinich supporters to sit this election out if he doesn't get the nomination

He is as legitimate as Dodd, Biden, Edwards, Clinton, Obama.

If you worded the argument toward not following the debate rules, and left it as that I could understand, but by painting his camgain as illegitimate only alienates his supporters from the party, and the party does need every vote they can get to win

[PaulaFarrell]

415. Freedom of the press to manipulate the news?

I'm pretty that freedom of the press relates to freedom to print what they choose, not freedom to determine which candidates for president will appear in natioonal debates. I'm guessing this will be televised? Of course, I guess any organisation has the right to hold any debate it chooses and the right to invite any participants it chooses - but when that organisatin is a newspaper, how can it preten to to have any journalistic ethics at all? They have stopped reporting politics and started playing it - sort of what they did for the Iraq war too, so maybe no surprise really.

[ProudDad]

460. How about this?

Why the FUCK is a private corporation making decisions about how OUR elections are run?

EH?????

It's because the elections are owned lock, stock and barrel by the corporate capitalist masters. They call the shots.


Fuck the corporate capitalist masters!!! And their sycophant fellow travelers...



If this were a free and fair election process, Kucinich's IDEAS would be far ahead because they most closely match the ideals of the average USAmerican citizen.

But it's NOT a free and fair election process...never was and may never be unless we stop participating in the engine of the corporate evil -- the warped, deviant, destructive cycle of consumption...

Starve the Beast!!!

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

[dan_dy]

318. Money wins again

Iowa is upholding the time-honored fact that only politicians with money can compete. They are in league with the media in reducing our political options, and in dictating our political fate.

[MADem]

386. "Iowa" isn't running this debate. Jesus, do a little research before you weigh in and make a

fool of yourself.

[taylor egv420106]

105. Yeah Just because DK HAS NO CAMPAIGN

Face facts, Kucinich has run no actual campaign. He will get EXACTLY the result that his pathetic efforts have earned on Jan 3, namely an embarrassing race with Gravel for last place.

[grahamhgreen]

142. Don't confuse no campaign with no money; OR no integrity...

[taylor egv420106]

167. OH I dont

It still doesnt change the fact that Kucinich has no campaign and in campaign terms no real cash.

It seems DK only has cash when it comes to locales where he can get a suntan or get national media coverage.

[cyclezealot]

192. Hucakabee has raised only 100 K more than Kucinich

and he does not have to take this crap from our corporate press. Of course the Christain money has changed from Brownback to Huckabee, so that likely will change.

[Debi]

213. Huckabee has been to Iowa 97 times compared to Kucinich's 15 visits

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/mike-huckabee/

I'm no fan of Huckabee, but at least he's campaigning here and has taken the time to ask republican voters to support him.

[cyclezealot]

244. huckabee is a free agent

Dennis is and has maintained a perfect congressional voting record unlike most of the other dems. His job as Congress member comes first. He hardly ever misses a vote. He needs our applause for doing his job first and foremost.

[Debi]

268. Like his vote against children's healthcare? Priceless n/t

[KamaAina]

342. The bill he was voting on excluded coverage for children of LEGAL immigrants

so he voted against it on principle. A tactical mistake? Yup. Worth using as a club to bash him with? Mmmm... maybe not.

[KamaAina]

343. Oops! meant to respond to OP

self-delete

[1corona4u]

321. Correction;

Just for the sake of accuracy;

Kucinich missed 337 of 6948 votes (5%) since Jan 7, 1997 (Average relative to peers).

[TroglodyteScholar]

298. GEE Dennis only came to my state FIFTEEN times!

Do you know how spoiled you guys in Iowa are? WTF, get ahold of yourselves.

[frylock]

363. go see the butter cow..

it's fucking magnificent.

[Debi]

407. Yes, we are spoiled. But not as spoiled as New Hampshire where

he has visited 40 times. Yet their contest occurs AFTER Iowa. Is that good planning by DK?

[pstans]

443. That would be 15 events in the state for Kucinich

Probably 4-5 visits total.

[rAVES]

308. I wonder would the paper send somebody over here to defend their ridicules position....

[Nihil]

322. Wonder no more ...

... your question has been answered (in approximately 42 posts).

[rAVES]

331. wasn't a question.

[whathappened]

326. now we are showing are true colors

i wondered what this was about when you was so hell bent on not having dennis in the debates , first it was the news has the rights and now i don't like dennis so it is great the news has shut him down , good going there newbee

[NoodleBoy]

359. word.

There are some people who agree with you on this board, but we don't have as much to complain about. The candidates we support have polling numbers that are greater than the margin of error.

[donsu]

2. Iowa is being petty - Kucinich should be there

nt

[taylor egv420106]

108. Why?

What has he done that entitles him to be in the debate? From a realistic standpoint he has run no real campaign. He claims to be certain of winning the nomination but you notice he is still running for congress.

[lostnfound]

282. What have progressives done that entitle us to have him represent our voices in the debate?

Is there anyone else who's going to speak out in favor of single-payer health care at that debate?
Will the large anti-war contingent be adequately represented? Will anyone else speak as frankly about corporate control of the process?
Maybe, maybe not.
But excluding Dennis isn't all about Dennis. It's about the left flank of the party being ignored.
Now evidently you are a very politically active person, and may be inclined to mock those who don't have so much experience or insight into the process.
But to my ignorant view, leaving him in the debate would have been honoring the intent of the word 'democracy' by allowing a reasonably broad range of voices participate -- not Kucinich the man, but the many voters who agree with his further left positions.

[crickets]

385. Thank you! Excellent points, especially this one:

But excluding Dennis isn't all about Dennis. It's about the left flank of the party being ignored.

That's it, in a nutshell. By marginalizing the loudest (and sometimes only, it seems) voice for the left wing in the presidential race - *poof* - the left suddenly disappears and the debate amongst the "centrist" candidates is all that's left for Democrats to choose from. I may not agree with some the views of the candidates at the podium, but each one of them has a right to be there and a right to be heard, including DK. Filtering him out by not asking him as many questions apparently is no longer enough. Now he's just kicked out of the process entirely.

How convenient. How completely, utterly wrong.

[The Traveler]

3. How very undemocratic of them.

They should reconsider this ill advised move.

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. What the...??? Of all the idiotic transparent excuses. Give me a break.

[taylor egv420106]

109. Did you ever think

That if Kucinich had ever made even a SINGLE effort to campaign he would have been considered a legitimate candidate and therefore been invited?

[Ninga]

5. Kucinich should be at the debate. The process must play out fairly. The M$M once again

inserting themselves into the race and deciding for the voters.

Yucky stuff, I do not like it one bit.

[DissedByBush]

288. The parties eliminate real the possibility of real change either way

Remember what they did to Perot after he made such a good showing in the '92 election? They changed the rules to make sure he wouldn't be in any debates the next time.

[TroglodyteScholar]

300. Agreed, there are way too many choices made FOR us rather than BY us...

Welcome to DU, DissedByBush. :hi:

[IndyOp]

6. Oh, I see... You have to spend $$ in the state on office rental or you can't

be part of the debate and election. It's all about the $$ it seems.

If they had some qualification like needing to get 500 signatures of Iowa citizens to show that there is grassroots interest in having Kucinich participate in the debate then that would seem a lot more reasonable, but attaching this to cash expenditures is just wrong.

[krkaufman]

42. Indeed. It's some sort of bastardized Poll Tax ... a Pol Tax, perhaps.

There *does* need to be some sort of criteria for determining what candidates to include in a debate, less we end up with 50 candidates, but Kucinich would seem to have more than negligible support in the Democratic constituency and excluding him would silence the voices of a significant portion of the caucus.

Given the national implications of the Iowa caucuses, they need to be as open as possible.

[taylor egv420106]

123. ON what basis do you claim that?

Negligible would be an exceedingly kind way to describe Kucinich's level of support in the state of Iowa as a whole. I will be amazed if he gets more than one delegate in over a 1/2 dozen counties.

[krkaufman]

374. One's support is not "negligible" if one has as much support ...

... as many of the other candidates in the race. Considering the margin-of-error, Kucinich is within reach of all but 4 of the candidates. And the primaries are not just about "winning"; they're also about having your message heard. Should Kucinich's 1% be excluded from this democratic process? Would seem to be a bit oxymoronic. Amd maybe even hold the oxy.

[IA_Seth]

75. 500 people, are you effin serious?

So instead of a debate you'd like a public soapboz for all 1000 "candidates" that were able to get 500 signatures?

If Kucinich can't field an office, how in the hell would he be able to afford to do the things that are required of a serious candidate?

[taylor egv420106]

114. My father is a county chair

and Kucinich claimed that they could not even afford the ten dollar ticket to the fundraiser for the county.

[Debi]

133. Well, unless you're in Chicago

Dennis can't come to Illinois x(

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/dennis-kucinich/states/il/

[taylor egv420106]

139. I'm very close to Chicago

And BTW, if you are who I am pretty sure you are I know you and your husband.

And you guys are quite familiar with my father. But if you are not I apologize.

[Debi]

179. Aacckk, I can't send you a PM for a few more posts

now I'm wonder who your father is and if I am who you think I am. :crazy:

My beef with the Kucinich campaign is that I TRIED to help but he didn't want it. He was to attend an event here in Black Hawk County. I contacted the campaign and had arranged a space (for free) for the Congressman to have a meet & greet with supporters before the event. I was told by the organizers of the event that he would be attending. The campaign said they'd get back to me...they never did...nor did they tell the BHC Dems that DK would not be attending the event. (guess he found out it wouldn't be on C-SPAN, or that it would be below 70 degrees and didn't want to come out to Iowa from California or wherever he was campaigning at the time). Whatever. He blew off Iowa and Iowans and is now complaining. It's not like this is the last debate ever, just the last one before the Iowa Caucuses (that DK doesn't care about). He'll be able to get national press before the more important contests - like Hawaii's primary :eyes:

[taylor egv420106]

183. I'll give you a hint

He lives in Oelwein, writes a newspaper column.

I dont want to give out his name online though.

[Debi]

187. OMG - Nah, couldn't be -

If it is I just saw him in Waverly a couple of weeks ago.

I tell you what, get to 50 posts or so and PM me.

I'm pretty sure I know who you are now.

(What am I saying? There isn't a bad person FROM Oelwein! :bounce: Mr. Debi and I are still trying to negotiate the upcoming Christmas Party - we DON'T DARE miss it!)

[maxanne]

162. that's a lie

I happen to know one of the Kucinich staffers from Iowa.

[Debi]

214. He only has one staff member in Iowa.

One.

[maxanne]

259. So?

Is there a rulebook somewhere that outlines the number of staff one must have?

Many campaigns use VOLUNTEERS as staff - kind of an alien, grassrootsy concept, I realize.

[Debi]

269. No, no rulebook at all - just a clarification to your commnet of knowing

one of Kucinich's Iowa staff members, maybe you should have pointed out that you know Kucinich's ONE Iowa staff member.

[maxanne]

280. clearly

you are offended, Debi. Should grassroots candidates be excluded, in your opinion?

[Debi]

287. You ask a loaded question

No, grassroots candidates should not be excluded from the debates - and I think Richardson/Biden/Dodd could all be considered grassroots candidates b/c of their small war-chests and staff (and reliance on volunteers). They stay in local hotels and eat meals with supporters as well as have supporters drive them from event to event. They have gatherings in people's houses or community centers to save on costs of renting space and folks host pot-lucks rather than cater events. Volunteers phone bank from their homes and write letters in support of their candidates. Isn't that grass-roots campaigning?

However, I think that more weight needs to be given to candidates that are running in Iowa when it comes to hosting debates. There is nothing stopping Dennis Kucinich from running here in Iowa except for his desire to run in California and Florida and Hawaii instead of Iowa. Iowa is no more expensive to open a campaign office in Des Moines than New Hampshire (yet he has an office there) and less expensive than Nevada (yet he has an office there).

Ask his one campaign staff member here in Iowa what he advised DK to do...he'll tell you he advised DK not to run here b/c it was too hard to fly him in/out of the Des Moines airport and drive him to events (at least that's what he told me when I asked why DK has never been to my county which is the 6th largest county in the state).

He doesn't want to run in Iowa except when he can attend an event that provides him national exposure and yet he'll attend events in Hawaii and Michigan and Alabama and get no press out of it. The national press isn't there, they are here. He could have free coverage if he would just show up. But he doesn't show up. He only complains.

[maxanne]

304. if that is your criteria

how do you explain Alan Keyes being INCLUDED?

He has no office, no staff, and hasn't even been included in the national debates. Why do you suppose Keyes IS included, but not
Kucinich? What do you think about that?

And why do you suppose the GOP doesn't do what is being done here? They don't try to exclude each other from debates. They don't
sit around on message boards savaging each other's campaigns. Why do you suppose Democrats do?

[Debi]

403. Since you are asking me to get into the minds of the decision makers

of the Des Moines Register I have no answer for you.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

194. And what might you be...

...the county foot rest?

[Nihil]

324. County commode from the quality of output displayed here ... (n/t)

[Debi]

128. Oh, Seth just forget it

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/dennis-kucinich/states/

Kucinich is more interested in New Hampshire who holds it's process 5 days after Iowa, Florida who holds it's process 26 days after Iowa, California who holds it's process a month after Iowa and Washington D.C. who holds it's process 5 weeks after Iowa. We're not important to DK, we just happen to hold our process first. x(

[taylor egv420106]

110. So are you seriously suggesting

that EVERY candidate, no matter how pathetically miniscule their following should get the same media coverage as a person who is actually working and campaigning in a state?

[maxanne]

163. warning: DIVERSION

No one is making that argument. Nice try at diverting to it, however.

[taylor egv420106]

172. Just what is your argument then?

He has no comparative money, campaign or support. What basis do you have for an argument?

[maxanne]

190. the old switcheroo

Your original post said:

So are you seriously suggesting
that EVERY candidate, no matter how pathetically miniscule their following should get the same media coverage as a person who is actually working and campaigning in a state?


You still haven't explained who was making that argument. Why are you changing the subject AGAIN?

[taylor egv420106]

218. You claimed you were not

so I challenged you to articulate your argument, your reponse was to fail miserably.

[maxanne]

230. sorry about your reading comprehension skills

What I said was: No one is making that argument. Nice try at diverting to it, however.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me who IS making that argument - you know, the one you falsely claimed was being made.

That would be this argument, by the way: So are you seriously suggesting
that EVERY candidate, no matter how pathetically miniscule their following should get the same media coverage as a person who is actually working and campaigning in a state?

So, who was/is making that argument (aka false dilemna)

You do get extra credit for your persistance in changing the subject and making bogus claims.

[grytpype]

7. He would win the nomination if they would let him debate!!!!!!

:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

[DU9598]

33. Hasn't he debated before?

My recollection is that he has been in the debates up to this point and has no more than nominal support, if that.

I think this decision helps Edwards as he and Kucinich teamed up to some extent in Iowa in 2004.

[NoSheep]

76. He isn't asked many questions at all in the debates he has attended

It's Clinton, Obama and then Edwards who get all the face time.

[JDPriestly]

155. In that order -- a set-up against all the candidates who

did not have Hillary's backing from the MSM.

[Nihil]

325. Not so much a "set-up" ...

... as simply pro-rata for the amount paid ... it's ALL about "contributions" y'know!

[krkaufman]

34. Well, that's not true, necessarily ...

... but excluding him from the debate seems ridiculous, petty and, worse, undemocratic.

Given the national implications of the Iowa caucuses, they need to be as open as possible.

[dysfunctional press]

328. doubtful. remember- he's a confessed gun-grabber...

and the country is nowhere near ready to accept anything like that.

[flyarm]

8. this is a disgrace..a total disgrace! this is not my party any longer..that's how i feel..eom

[krkaufman]

43. This is another reason the decision is a travesty.

Did the Iowa Democratic Party make the decision, or the Des Moines Register?

The Democratic Party, proper, should be up-in-arms about this, as it will likely be perceived as the Democratic Party snubbing one of its candidates.

[flyarm]

80. well the other candidates have a choice..demand Dennis in or they don't do debate..that simple

and i am not a Dennis K fan..but this is not right..will they do this to Ron Paul??????????

bet not..
this is total bullshit!

fly

[newburgh]

119. Right on! Either the other candidates believe in democracy or they don't...

Any Democratic candidate that doesn't insist on Kucinich's participation or decline participation until he is allowed is a hypocrite, pure and simple. This is not about "1000 other candidates"- what a Repugnant argument- must be a flatearth clinton supporter...

[yy4me]

400. I agree with you, the others should show support of DK and

demand his participation or cancel the debate. Quite simple, really. It is about fairness and equality. Something many have forgotten lately.

[taylor egv420106]

111. FACE FACTS, the Kucinich campaign is a joke

They didn't want to spend any time or effort in actual campaigning and now a few mealy mouthed snivelers want to complain that he isnt being treated like he actually campaigned.

[maxanne]

165. more lies

A look at nationwide polls will show you that Kucinich actually has higher poll ratings than Dodd - but you aren't trying to marginalize him.

What are you so afraid of, Taylor?

[taylor egv420106]

175. What polls allegedy show that?

and I am not marginalizing anyone. I simply stating the facts about the campaign.

[maxanne]

188. no you didn't

present facts. It's interesting that you showed up here today for this very thread, in fact.
You've expressed a lot of ire toward Kucinich - why is that? If he's so unimportant, why
should you care if he's in the debate? Dodd, by the way removed his entire NH operation to Iowa.
Should Dodd be excluded from the January NH debate?



http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/12/5/13326/3758

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08dem.htm

[Debi]

219. Progressive Democrats and DFA national polls show him higher than Dodd

But not Iowa polls. Where the debate is being held.

[krkaufman]

370. But Iowa-only polls should not be the sole consideration ...

... given that Iowa is assuming the responsibility of the first caucuses. A candidate's performance in Iowa has national implications, so the Iowa powers-that-be need to look beyond the cornfields in determining candidate viability.

Iowa has fought to maintain its first-in-the-nation caucuses; but I say they lose that "right", for the next time around, if they maintain this anti-democratic stance.

[Debi]

410. If a candidate's performance in Iowa has natinal implications

Why doesn't Kucinich take Iowa more seriously?

He's supposed to be able to ignore Iowans and not campaign here, but when CNN or C-SPAN shows up we're supposed to roll out the red carpet?

If Iowa is being followed nationally why is DK ignoring Iowa for states where no national press is around? Hawaii? Alabama?

[krkaufman]

439. I cannot argue with that. However, I only wonder whether the DK campaign ...

... was aware of the Des Moines Register debate invitation requirements. (Personally, I *do* think there needs to be a criteria in place to keep the debates from having too many candidates, but the DMR criteria seems a bit bureaucratic.)

Truthfully, regardless of this particular issue, the initial caucus/primary opportunity does need to pass beyond the sole possession of Iowa and New Hampshire. It makes no sense for 2 states to have such influence over the Presidential candidate nomination process, nor should these 2 states benefit so heavily from the political advertising revenues that flow every 4 years.

[MADem]

387. Like Dodd is running a powerhouse campaign!! I'll bet Dodd does better than DK in Iowa though.

Why? Dodd has been LIVING there for the last several months. His kid is in school there, he's rented a home there.

DK can't break away from following the Ani DiFranco tour to go give a speech to the 'hayseeds,' I guess.

It's all about priorities, and campaigning in primary states aren't among his....

[flyarm]

274. well they sure were campaigning when the called me last week asking for money!

since i was a delegate in my state i get all the calls for $$ ..AND TO DATE..DENNIS'S CAMPAIGN IS THE ONLY ONE TO HAVE CALLED ME..

so if that isn't campaigning..and having people making those calls.. ...what is?

look i am not a Dennis Fan as i stated..but i will say it again..this is wrong..dead wrong.

fly

[krkaufman]

369. debate over whether he "actually campaigned" is different ...

... from some last moment judgement that Kucinich is out because he didn't have rented office space or a full-time staff. These criteria should be secondary to what support he has in the state, and he has as much support as at least two of the other candidates who *are* allowed in the debate -- 4 if you consider polling margin-of-error.

[Art_from_Ark]

447. William McKinley campaigned from his front porch in 1896

Obviously, he wasn't a serious candiadate :eyes:

[rucognizant]

136. The Des Moines Register!

I tried to e-mail call them in 2004, to say Kerry had stolen Dean's talking points the day before the caucus.
No response!
BTW I am watching the D M Reg. Repug Debate on CNN. Not only is Ron Paul there so is Alan Keys!! He's batshit nutz! Romney is a BIG FAKE
Beyond that they are running a much better debate than CNN, MSNBC or ABC! The candidates are being given coherant questions that make them seem resonable prospects. I will be curious to see if they give the Dems that same opportunity!

[flyarm]

276. oh so Alan Keys counts and Kucinich doesn't????????? that is horseshit!

pure horseshit!

fly

[krkaufman]

371. Re: Alan Keyes ...

Yeah, it makes me wonder if the DM Register didn't bring him in to make the other candidates seem sane by comparison.

[paulk]

171. the party had nothing to do with this

pay attention

[frogcycle]

267. "your party"

has nothing to do with the Register's decision

[flyarm]

279. nonsense..and do you think the Keys matters more than Kucinich?

Does Ron Paul matter more than Kucinich?

if not then why is Kucinich being excluded?

and if the Dem party wanted Kucinich in the debste..you can damn well bet he would be in the debate!

fly

[krkaufman]

372. Ok, let's begin from the beginning.

Do you acknowledge that the decision to remove Kucinich was a decision made by the Des Moines Register?

[formercia]

9. The boys at work

The last thing they want is a boy scout in the White House.

[0007]

17. ........ain't democracy just fucking wonderful?

Allen Keyes has as much creditable as Iowa's smile for Dennis Kucinich. This indeed sucks.

The Des Moines Register and Iowa Public Television invited Alan Keyes, a Reagan administration official who also ran for president in 1996 and 2000, to today's Republican debate. He was not invited to the other major debates.

Dennis Kucinich, on the other hand, was left off the stage for the Democratic debate Thursday because he does not have a campaign office and full-time staff in Iowa.

And Kucinich, who has been part of all other debates, is none too happy, accusing the debate sponsors of stiffing him for spurious reasons since his field director works out of a home office.

"The Iowa caucuses have been portrayed as having national implications, and if the Register has decided to use hair-splitting technicalities to exclude the leading voice of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, then the entire process is suspect," his campaign said in a statement released today.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/12/keyes_in_kucini.html

[ClintonTyree]

161. Perhaps if "the leading voice.......

of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party", bothered to campaign in Iowa there would have been a different outcome? :shrug: Someone is being a tad disingenuous with that claim. Leading voice? More like a nonexistent one as far as Iowa is concerned. If he'd have leased a Post Office box that probably would have qualified him. You get out of things exactly what you put into them. Nothing in, nothing out.
Realistically, Dennis doesn't stand a ghost of a chance winning anywhere. Perhaps that's a sad commentary on our political system, but the truth, nonetheless.

[Poll_Blind]

10. And get this- Kucinich OUT, Alan Keys IN!

Silly Bullshit

[SlingBlade]

11. This is a goddamed bullshit decision

:wtf:
No wonder this friggin Nation is going down the rathole

[boricua79]

12. what utter bullshit and technicality play

The fact that he's getting so much attention just working from home should be enough to let them know the caliber of this candidate.

Blow it out your a-hole, Des Moines Register.

:mad:

[flvegan]

13. So the media is choosing our candidate for us. Surprised? Still?

The Des Moines Register is sponsoring the Republican debate today, it appears.

[NI4NI]

14. this is unjust!

it's not like this is the very first DEM primary debate.
I wonder when the newspaper "determined" that DK did not meet the "criteria".
IMO, the other candidates, including mine, should voice disagreement.

[Poll_Blind]

15. CONTACT INFORMATION for the Des Moines Register

From their "Contact the Register" page

Telephone switchboard
Local: [phone]
Iowa: [phone]
Outside Iowa: [phone]

Mailing address
P.O. Box 957
Des Moines IA 50306-0957

Officers and Department heads
Laura Hollingsworth_____President and Publisher__(515) 284-8041
Rick Bell_______________Vice President, Circulation__(515) 284-8319
Kevin D. Hall___________Vice President, Advertising__(515) 284-8384
Julie Harvey____________Vice President, Finance__(515) 284-8226
Kevin R. Johnson________Vice President, Production__(515) 471-3505
Susan Patterson Plank___Vice President, Marketing and Digital Development__(515) 284-8261
Joyce M. Ray____________Vice President, Human Resources__(515) 284-8586
Carolyn Washburn________Vice President, Editor__(515) 284-8502
R. Dee Wilson___________Vice President, Information Services__(515) 284-8385

[coffeenap]

19. Thanks for the list--emails going now. nt

[seafan]

28. Much appreciated, Poll_Blind. Thanks. n/t

[cyclezealot]

50. I made my call.

I was furious. What right does the media have to decide who can participate in our democracy. Told them I won't be watching. What right to they have to keep me uninformed. They have been sold to McClatchy Newspapers. I expect better of them.

[cyclezealot]

so do we have our people before the

debate auditorium and outside the newspaper's corporate office. I wish I was there to vent my spleen.

[taylor egv420106]

143. Their debate, their rules, plain and simple

You dont like it, organize your own debate.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

200. They fear him so they exclude him, plain and simple...

...and then lie about their reasons for excluding him -- or maybe that's your job as county foot rest.

[Krashkopf]

70. Even if you support SOMEONE ELSE please call Des Moines Register to Complain!

I called, and told them as a Colorado resident, and an Edwards Support, I thought that the decision to exclude Kucinch was WRONG . . . that Kucinich speaks for the Progressive wing of the Democratic Party . . . and that they should change their position and invite him to participate.

The person in the news room said that they were getting a flood of calls from all over the country, and that they were passing the comments to the editorial board.

Even if you support Edwards, or Barrack, or Hillary, or Joe, or Chris, or Bill please call one of the numbers, above, and keep the pressure on the newspaper. WE, the Democrats, want (and America needs) free, open, and inclusive debates!

Krash

[Krashkopf]

77. THIS is the person who made the decision . . . GIVE HER A CALL!

Carolyn Washburn, Vice President, Editor, 515-284-8502

[rucognizant]

164. Washburn........

won't be back 'till Fri! SHe's at the debate right bnow.
Now CNN is SELLING US WHO THEY WANT TO ...........................Huckabee & Guliani!
Dennis has a special agent. I called his campaign office in Clevland, and they gave me this man's # it is David Bright 207-234-4224. He wasn't there when I called, but if anyone wants to call for mor info.
His wife ran against Sen. Snowe in 1006!

[rucognizant]

286. Well.......

When I called the Des Moines Register. the man in the newsroom saidhe wasn't sure if Alan L=Keys had an ofice in Iowa!
I was avble to pass onthat info to David Bright today. His wife was VERY interested to hear that about Keys..They are stil working to get him included. read this..............

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_jean_hay_071212_dennis_kucinich_and_.htm
Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:15:52 AM PST

I want to let you know what’s going on in Iowa.

The Des Moines Register put out a press release last week announcing that six of the eight Democratic candidates for President had "accepted invitations" to debate this Thursday. Congressman and Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich was not among them.

What the Des Moines Register press release should have said is that they offered invitations to this debate to only six of the eight nationally recognized Democratic presidential candidates and that all six who were invited accepted.

* jeanhaybright's diary :: ::
*

The Des Moines Register is a prominent newspaper. Their editors and writers know how to turn a phrase. And the way they turned that phrase in that news article, the implication is that Dennis Kucinich did not accept the invitation they offered to him. That phrasing by the Des Moines Register implied that Kucinich declined their invitation to debate.

That is not true.

In phrasing its news article the way it did, the Des Moines Register did not tell voters in Iowa -- and voters across the nation, since this debate will be nationally televised -- the whole truth.

Here’s the truth. Here is the arbitrary list of criteria for inclusion in this debate, and in other debates held in Iowa this fall: more...................

[NoSheep]

84. Thanks. Just sent an email.

[PassingFair]

16. Vilsacked!

It's the Hillary Express.

[Zorra]

18. Excluded due to corporate directive. "Don't let the voice of the People speak".

No surprise here, Dennis is dangerous to fascism.

[taylor egv420106]

115. Kucinich is no voice of the people

If anything he is the "voice of a person" maybe two people.

I was in attendance at the Johnson County BBQ this year and every other candidate was outgoing and chatty with people. Kucinich got up, yammered for a few minutes then practically sprinted out of the room with his lackeys saying "he doesnt' have time to talk, he doesnt have time to talk."

Guess what, NOBODY WAS TRYING TO TALK TO HIM.

[harmonicon]

352. I would be honored to have DK be my voice in government and the debate.

[Zorra]

458. Maybe that's because he had to get back to his "day job" in DC?

Kucinich's two jobs
snip---
Yet Kucinich maintains that his presidential campaign activities aren't hindering his legislative duties. "I take these responsibilities very seriously," he said in an interview last month, noting that his career voting-attendance record is 97 percent —which would earn him an "A" on any test.

"I do most of my campaigning on the weekends, on my own time," he added, pointing out that the only reason he missed 10 votes in the House earlier this year is because he was on a two-day diplomatic trip to Paris and London, not campaigning. He has only missed only three votes since, bringing his voting record to about 98 percent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19505871/

A 98% voting attendance record is stellar for a presidential candidate. I doubt that, among active legislators running for the Presidency, any other candidate has a voting attendance record nearly as good as DK's.

[sakabatou]

20. That's just unfair

[taylor egv420106]

140. "Wahhhhhh" isnt a legitimate response

Time the DK people realized that.

[maxanne]

166. waaagh

is all that you're doing on this thread - a thread you clearly came to DU especially to be part of. Whassup with that?

[Freddie Stubbs]

197. But is it a Kucinichian response

[Asgaya Dihi]

367. Projecting a bit, aren't you?

I hardly post here anymore and so far in this campaign season I haven't expressed a favorite, not even once. Mostly because I haven't really decided between a couple or three of them yet. But your attitude so far in this thread is disturbing and it's pretty obvious that you're using this as an excuse to work through some personal issues you seem to have with Dennis. You've insulted him, his supporters, you've put words in their mouths and tried to get them to defend points they never made and you've grasped one excuse after another to do ANYTHING other than to just state your opinion and move on, allowing others their opinion as well.

You're right on one point though. "Wahhhhhh" isn't a legitimate response and it seems to be about time for you to take your own advice. You've said it, and said it, and said it, and said it again. Everyone got it, repeatedly. Time to allow others their opinions as well and perhaps without the attitude, don't you think? Regardless of how you think he's seen nationwide he DOES have some support here and all the "Wahhhhhh" in the world from you isn't going to change that. It'll just annoy people.

[FREEWILL56]

448. But, but, but

that was his and his supporter in crimes purpose. I made the comment before that it was he that was doing all of the crying here, but the mods decided I wasn't allowed to say that along with other opinions of where these 2 were coming from that were dead on target. It was a very deliberate and planned vendetta of unfairness and disinformation to discredit DK. The proof is that they never addressed outrage of repukes not meeting office requirements in Iowa, not even from a home, but being allowed to debate. Iowan democrats should see this and take a closer look at DK as their candidate.

[Asgaya Dihi]

455. If so they aren't that smart

When people act like that it tends to strengthen rather than weaken support, at least for a lot of us. That's one reason I think Hillary isn't doing better than she is. Some of her supporters are hurting rather than helping her and have been for years now, they are too aggressive about it. Other candidates supporters do too I'm sure but for years now we've been being told that if we don't support her we're just haters, or sexist, or repub tools, or whatever else. She was already the nominee to them in last years mid terms, you couldn't challenge that and that's a part of why I stopped posting here. Too much hate and too many baseless assumptions about people was developing, the fact that they were demanding that you vote against what you saw as your own best interests didn't seem to disturb them any. Do it or be called traitor.

So according to their logic the only reason to oppose Obama is because he's black, only reason to oppose Romney is because he's a Mormon, only reason to oppose Lieberman because he's a Jew, and so on? No? Then why do they think they can assume with her and get away looking any better for it?

I saw a wonderful post yesterday where a user named "mod mom" posted page after page of details and reasons why they had real concerns, but the predictable "hater" responses were unavoidable. It doesn't matter how you explain, source, or detail your concerns, they are sure they know you better than you know yourself.

Sounds too familiar to me, we've just spent the last several years dealing with an administration and media that wants to tell us what we really stand for and why we think what we do without ever bothering to ask if it's true. It's just a good accusation, a nice little zinger, so that'll do. I really think her supporters, or the more rabid of them, are themselves the a good part of the reason why so many expect more of the same with her. She seems to attract the type so probably will if she wins the office too. If they had "helped" her a little less she might be doing better.

[Mudoria]

459. If he ever showed up there or perhaps made an effort

to put in the necessary work it takes to campaign in Iowa perhaps they would. That, however, doesn't seem to be the case. I'm sure he would be happy to turn up for nationally televised events but he doesn't seem to be interested in doing the campaigning minus the cameras. Perhaps you should be asking his staff why he isn't doing the work in Iowa the other candidates are doing....

[mopinko]

21. perhaps they remember st dennis from '04

when he just had his delegates caucus with kerry(iirc) to dump howard dean.

[krkaufman]

44. Interesting. Any info? Articles? Links? n/t

[IA_Seth]

71. It was Edwards..

But I dont think this has anything to do with it.

Kucinich can't put up ONE office in Iowa. If he can't field one office at this stage of the game, he is not a serious candidate. To honestly believe otherwise is silliness.

[mopinko]

289. yes, you are correct. it was edwards.

no, no link. just reminded of this the other day by deaniac friends who were there. dennis has a knack for making enemies.
and no, i knew it probably had nothing to do with it. but i don't think it did anything to make him look like he might be a serious contender in this lifetime. i find him full of shit.

[Debi]

290. Here's a link

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/19/elec04.prez.edwards.kucinich/index.html

His biggest supporter in 2004 - Ed Fallon - took Kucinich's advice and is supporting John Edwards this go around.

[harmonicon]

354. why should he?

put up offices? how ridiculous - no one should have more than one campaign office. If the media did their job, that's all it would take, and money would have little or nothing to do with it.

[treestar]

425. IA, who cares if he rented an office?

You could have virtual support these days. They haven't caught up with technology.

I think all the primaries should be on the same day; sick of little states making themselves important by one upping each other on how early they can have the primary (and I come from a little state)

[eridani]

379. No, they were asked to caucus for Edwards, who was also running in single digits at the time

What kind of an idiot thinks that candidates who don't look like they will make the 15% threshold are going to caucus with frontrunners instead of each other?

[salib]

22. This is no worse than the other debates. He just won't be in the room this time.

We know this is a hard fight against what really ailing us, so to speak.

Remember, Kucinich voters really want CHANGE. Real change. So, they are going to fight as dirtily as they need to. Hey, he has been targeted for a hit before. They will go as far as they need to.

So, we also need to snap to it, if we want to fight the good fight.

Letters to the editor. Letters to the organizers. Letters to the other candidates. Letters to the Iowa Democratic Party.

[laconicsax]

32. Good point

This way, he won't have to stand around doing nothing for 95% of the debate.

[stimbox]

23. More bullshit from Iowa.

This is what, the second time Kucinich has been excluded from events there?

The Des Moines Register wouldn't happen to be related to the Plain Dealer, now would it?

[katadin706]

24. Contacting the Register

Officers and Department Heads (From their website . . .)

Laura Hollingsworth President and Publisher [phone]
Rick Bell Vice President, Circulation [phone]
Kevin D. Hall Vice President, Advertising [phone]
Julie Harvey Vice President, Finance [phone]
Kevin R. Johnson Vice President, Production [phone]
Susan Patterson Plank Vice President, Marketing and Digital Development [phone]
Joyce M. Ray Vice President, Human Resources [phone]
Carolyn Washburn Vice President, Editor [phone]
R. Dee Wilson Vice President, Information Services [phone]

[peace13]

40. Thanks for these!

Called the Pres. and they informed me that the newsroom was taking the calls. Talked to real people! They say they have been busy with call to day so keep calling folks. Peace, Kim

[FannieandGladys]

199. Dennis Kucinich

Maybe there is more to today's omission than meets the eye. For the last week and a half or so, the DM Register has been running a series on the Democratic and Republican candidates in the opinion section, rating each candidate's position on various issues. Guess which candidate was not included? That's right. DK. The Democrats included Biden, Clinton, Dodd, Edwards, Obama, and Richardson.

[CherokeeDem]

25. Here's My Email to the Publisher of the Des Moines Register

Ms. Hollingsworth:

It is outrageous that the Des Moines Register is excluding Rep. Dennis Kucinich from the upcoming Democratic Candidate Debate due to his lack of having rented office space in Iowa. Representative Kucinich is a legitimate candidate for the Democratic nomination and whether he has a viable percentage of the vote or rented space should not exclude him from the debate. The manipulation by the media as the process of selecting a nominee unfolds in inexcusable. Representative Kucinich deserves a voice for his views and his supporters and I urge you to reconsider.

I happen to be a supporter of John Edwards, but simply because he has a "rented" office in Iowa shouldn't give him or any other candidate a superior position on any other. You, in the interest of the citizens of Iowa as well as the rest of the country, need to be fair and honest and include Dennis Kucinich. While you are at it, could you ask him a few more questions? All voices need to heard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope others will bombard the paper with requests to include Dennis Kucinich in this debate. What a trumped up reason. Even if the campaigns were given this instruction from the beginning it is a ridiculous reason to exclude Dennis. I am beginning to really hate the MSM.

Debbie

[seafan]

27. Great letter, CherokeeDem! GO DU'ers! Pressure these people relentlessly.

Kucinich fights for us. Now we will fight for him.

[azmesa207]

220. Des Moines

is a right wing rag anyway what are they doing judging who get's in a Democratic debate

[peace13]

26. I don't think that Dennis will take this lying down. n/t

[mdmc]

31. As a big DK supporter I must ask

Why don't he have an IA office?
It seems that the left wing of our party only has him as our torchbearer. Why not rent space in IA? Where is his cash going?

I remember in 2004 when he hired Pitt to work PR for him. About a month later Pitt was working on Kerry's campaign. What is DK spending his cash on?

[The Blue Flower]

46. I have asked this also

Why does this question fall on deaf ears? What are people donating money for if not to fund a viable campaign? Not opening a campaign office in a critical state is not viable and does not reflect good judgement.

[MADem]

388. So he can fly to Syria. That's where your money went.

He used presidential campaign funds for that little junket.

And also to fly him to Ani DiFranco concerts in NY and TN and MA, none of which are early primary states.

But hey, whatever. It's your dough!!!

[kenfrequed]

59. uhm cash???

Lets see, your asking one of the least funded democratic candidates running about "where all the cash is going?"

Are you sure you are a supporter?

How much do you imagine a presidential run costs?

[mdmc]

78. Tons

DK should put all his cash in NH and IA.
I know he can't run a 50 state thing.

If he can't get the message of the left out there, he should let someone else represent the left.

Its no big deal that he doesn't debate - they wouldn't give him any time if he was on the stage.

I support DK, but I know our next president will be a neo-con (named HRC, imho).

I mean, how much can it cost to rent a storefront in IA for 2 months:shrug: ?

[peace13]

129. I have a wonderful office in my home.

Why should he waste a dollar on office space if it can be done another way? I plan to send $200 on the 15th and I don't want that money to be wasted. I don't think that a newspaper in Iowa should be the decider here. Just saying. peace, Kim

[mdmc]

137. When running for office, it is nice to have a place where the public

can go to get info. A storefront. Not a private residence (with all the scary things that can go on at a private residence).

The newspaper hosts, and decides...

I plan to give to DK on the 15th as well. I plan to give about $17.76, which is more then I earn after working for 2 hours (post tax :) )

Peace and low stress to you and yours.

[peace13]

145. I hear what you are saying! : ) n/t

[fed-up]

181. on safer offices are you refering to the hostage situation last week at Hilary's headquarters? nt

[pnwmom]

306. But this is a key race. He should have an office there, and it wouldn't

cost much at all to rent one.

[penguin7]

64. I understand that Kucinich is concentrating on New Hampshire

He thinks he will get more bang for the buck there.

[Debi]

153. 40 visits to New Hampshire AND a campaign Head Quarters there

15 visits to Iowa (same as Florida, California and D.C.) W/one staff member who operates out of his home.

Kucinich has written off Iowa except for events that receive national press (and ignores Iowa events that don't get natioal press even when he's agreed to attend).

[Cha]

66. That's my question, too..and

weren't there "rules" about this Before that his managers could have gleaned and rented some office space real quick so Dennis could actually be in the Iowa debate?

[ClintonTyree]

169. His Congressional race?

Just a hunch.

[druidity33]

228. he does actually

but it's not RENTED. His campaign in Iowa is being run by volunteers through the home office of one of his supporters.

That's the "fine line" his campaign is talking about. Does Alan Keyes have a campaign office in Iowa? As for people here on DU saying he doesn't have a "campaign" in Iowa (in particular one vociferous newbie on this very thread) that is utter BS. Who determines what degree of support constitutes a campaign? He has dozens of volunteers in nearly every state. Yeah so he hasn't flooded the state with interns, out-of-state volunteers and paid staff... but he still has a lot of people who are willing to work for him and who believe in his message.

Let the little guy in. What is everyone scared of?

:shrug:

[eridani]

380. He does have an office

It's the home office of his Iowa campaign director.

[go west young man]

41. Dennis and his lovely wife should make out in front of the venue

in protest to his being excluded. As the media only wants to focus on him because of his wife that should get national coverage. Let love rule Dennis!

[mdmc]

81. time for a bed in

:toast:

[pnwmom]

307. Oh, yeah, that would really help his stature as a serious candidate.

:sarcasm:

[frogcycle]

270. how can you tell?

:rofl:

sorry, I just had to do it. Short jokes may not be nice, but it was such a setup!

[allisonthegreat]

29. more bs, more bs...that should not be allowed..at all! n/t

[bobthedrummer]

30. There are many Dennis Kucinich supporters that don't have offices, nor draw salary

and "work" for him by promoting and networking at the grassroots level-that's called democracy.

Most importantly we are going to vote for him in Iowa and every other state.

[taylor egv420106]

241. Dont forget the ones too busy

advocating legal pot

[caseycoon]

35. This really SUCKS! n/t

[LSK]

36. how the hell is he running any organization without an office in the state?

[CherokeeDem]

47. Dennis has an Office...

it's just that his Campaign Chair works out of his house...I don't think they have a lot of money to spend on real estate. Regardless, that should not be a reason to exclude Kucinich from a debate. Geez...one of the top PR/Ad firms in my town has moved their offices to the owner's home because they can no longer support a brick and mortar office; their clients aren't buying advertising despite the "great" economy we are supposed to be enjoying. Things are tough for candidate and citizen these days. They just shouldn't exclude Dennis because his campaign is truly grassroots. Especially when Allen Keyes gets a free pass.

[LSK]

51. even Congressional Candidates can rent an office

Even STATE candidates rent offices. Sheesh, hes that poor????

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

54. I suspect this is a policy to keep out the whack-jobs....

The perennial candidates whose mental health is only marginally stable. I don't know why Dennis doesn't rent an office in Iowa (it would cost how much for a store front in Cedar Rapids?) but the Register should clearly make an exception in this case. Kucinich is a serious candidate who deserves to be ignored by the national media. That last sentence was sarcasm -- as others have noted, even if he's allowed in the debate, he will get 45 seconds of face time and what he says will be ignored by the MSM.

[LSK]

56. I understand the value of him in the debate and would prefer his presense

But I am amazed that he is seemingly not spending much time or money in Iowa.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

57. It is a little odd...

I worked with an under-funded congressional candidate in 2004 (he raised a total of $30K) and HE had a rented campaign office. Given that a poor showing in Iowa is pretty much "game over," I'd think he would be spending more money.

[Orrex]

67. Unless...

Given that a poor showing in Iowa is pretty much "game over," I'd think he would be spending more money.

It is unthinkable that a serious candidate wouldn't go to the minimal effort of renting an office in Iowa prior to the debates, and since Kucinich has campaigned previously, it can't be claimed that he simply didn't know.

Therefore it is not unreasonable to conclude that Kucinich is not a serious candidate.

I won't go so far as to accuse him of running a vanity campaign, but based on past electoral performance, he must have known from the outset that he stood little chance of gaining the party's nomination. So why did he campaign at all?

If his intent was to change the message of the debates, then he should have rented the freaking office, especially knowing how little love he gets from the MSM. He knew the rules and chose not to follow them. Sorry, Dennis, but that's how it goes.


Kucinichists can take solace from the fact that does get to enjoy the benefit of playing the electoral victim once again, for what that's worth.

[penguin7]

72. Kucinich needs to set up offices in every state?

He has limited resources and he is spending them where he thinks they will do the most good.

[Orrex]

83. Then he can't complain when he's excluded

If he's spending them where he thinks they'll do the most good, then he should spend them more carefully and with an eye to the repercussions.

Presumably he started his campaign with an awareness of the requirements. If so, then the time to complain about Iowa's policy was before he was publicly excluded from the debate. At this point, it looks like nothing more than a petulant attempt at generating a sound byte.

And if he somehow wasn't aware of the policy, then that was culpably (and dangerously) irresponsible of him.

[newburgh]

135. Huh????

This is one of those make-up-the-rules-as-we-go-along decisions...

Are you expecting Kucinich to be a mindreader- how about the candidate you support- are they mind readers?

What if they refused Hillary because, um, she's a neocon? Would she be expected to have to change her stance on Iran and Iraq just to be in the debate? And would we be reading comments in DU saying what a dweeb she is for not being a real Democrat- what ever that means nowadays? ; )

He HAS an office in the state. The technicality is that it's not in a commercial space. Why don't they just exclude him for being too short for the microphone stands they have... geeez...

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

151. I think that Dennis knows what he's doing...

And I don't think he had any illusions about becoming the next POTUS. I think Dennis does the Party and the Country a great service in running because he brings issues (Impeachment) to the table again and again, so those issues don't get lost. Even though Dennis doesn't get my vote, he gets my respect for keeping the Democratic Party from being an election year echo chamber. And that's precisely why I prefer that he be included in the debate.

[go west young man]

37. Ahhh.... America the beautiful. How corrupt are thee?

[enough already]

38. Where are the rest of our candidates on this outrage?

This is a fucking joke. Nobody can think this is the right fucking thing to do.

[Stephanie]

45. An outrage. You have to ask, who benefits?

I want to know when this policy was decided and when it was announced. This sounds like it was cooked up special just to bounce Dennis from the debate. Now who would want to do that and why? Think about it.

[LoZoccolo]

48. Every speeding ticket I get is a conspiracy: who benefits, lol! n/t

[MilesColtrane]

254. Both Kucinich and Gravel were bounced from another Iowa debate three weeks ago.

It was the AARP that decided that neither candidate met the standard of having an office in Iowa.

[Stephanie]

291. Kucinich was already bounced for the same reason?

that's new to me - in that case, why didn't he rent an office? was it too late?

[cyclezealot]

292. get real

it was because the AARP is a shill for Prudential Insurance , Inc.

[hedgehog]

49. Last year, Senator CLinton refused to debate Jonathan Tasini, even though he polled at 12%

Can't have those pesky anti-war people cluttering up people's minds, I guess.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/23/nyregion/23challenger.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[CherokeeDem]

52. Hey, Everyone...

My email to publisher of the Des Moines Register was kicked back; checked the address and it was correct. Anyone else have a problem? I am going to now send the email to everyone on the list. I hope this is just reflective of the paper getting bombarded with emails and not that they have blocked the email. I am going to keep trying...hope you all are having better luck

[zanne]

53. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

If I wasn't such an Obama Mama, I'd fight for his right to be in the debate.

[kcass1954]

79. You'd better be fighting for him - it could be your guy next time.

This isn't about Dennis being excluded - it's about the media deciding who's a "qualified" candidate.

[Donnachaidh]

55. Petty STUPID bullshit!

This is so WRONG on sooo many levels.

[Dukkha]

58. This debate must be boycotted by everyone

if all candidate are not given equal time then it's not a valid debate

[lonestarnot]

60. Well fuck Iowa and I'll be tuning this one out.

[Orrex]

61. So let me get this straight

If I make friends with some person in Des Moines, and she agrees to work out of her home and to post Vote for Orrex fliers in her neighborhood, then I must be allowed a podium at the presidential debate?

Heck, where do I sign up?

[FREEWILL56]

158. These are the requirements for the debate DK has met

as borrowed from a hotpotatogirl post:


Eligible Participants for Des Moines Register Debates will include Presidential Candidates who:




Have filed an FEC Form F-2, "Statement of Candidacy," with the Federal Election Commission; (CHECK)


Have publicly announced an intention to run for the
nomination of the Republican or the Democratic Party for President of
the United States; (CHECK)


Have employed at least one paid campaign staff
representative to perform full-time campaign duties in the State of
Iowa on behalf of the candidate since at least October 1, 2007. (CHECK – Kucinich has had a full-time staffer – an Iowa resident – on board since April)


With at least 1% in the Des Moines Register October, 2007, Iowa Poll (CHECK)


And lastly, have a Campaign Office inside the State of Iowa as of October 1, 2007 (to which the Kucinich campaign says CHECK, but the Des Moines Register says CHECK-OUT)

Have you done all of this to qualify for that debate spot oh sarcastic one?

[Orrex]

180. "Sarcastic One" is more of an honorific than an actual title, thanks

And no, I haven't done these, but apparently neither has Kucinich.

Let's be serious--I know that I can't declare myself a tax-exempt religious organization just because I have a copy of the Book of Mormon on my shelf; Kucinich (or his handlers) should certainly know that one guy in a house does not an office make.

[redqueen]

203. "one guy in a house does not an office make"

That's very arbitrary.

If they want to stipulate that the campaign office MUST be located on commercial property, they should specifically state as much. LOTS of people work from "home offices" these days. This is absolute bullshit.

[MilesColtrane]

208. All the other candidates have multiple staffed offices all over the state.

It really does look like Dennis simply blew off Iowa.

[redqueen]

210. Non sequitur.

The rules don't say "You have to do what the other candidates do", do they?

[Critters2]

442. In this case, they do. nt

[redqueen]

457. Apparently not, so long as you're Alan Keyes and not Dennis Kucinich. (nt)

[Krashkopf]

314. Gotta call BULLSHIT . . .

. . . on that whole line of thinking.

Iowa keeps moving up the date of its caucus to preserve its "first in the nation" status. In doing so, it exerts an impact on the national nomination process that is far in excess of its importance population-wise.

If Iowa is going to play the role of "King-Maker" (or "Queen-Maker") in national politics, it needs to take more than a candidate's physical presence in Iowa into consideration when sending out invites to the debates.

This EDWARDS supporter says "LET DENNIS IN!"

[Orrex]

209. So anyone can declare any property an office?

That's pretty arbitrary.

If I'm reading you correctly, you've decided that Iowa has tweaked its policy post hoc specifically to exclude Kucinich, and nothing will sway you from that conclusion.

Is it just possible that Dennis & Co. actually didn't meet the requirements and are therefore having to deal with the consequences?

[redqueen]

212. You're reading me incorrectly.

Based on the rules posted here, he did meet the requirements.

[Orrex]

233. I don't see why he gets to declare what is and isn't an office

As I mentioned upthread, I hereby declare myself a tax-exempt religious organization.

If Kucinich gets to tweak the rules to suit his wishes, I should get the same leeway. And so should you, for that matter. Let's all be tax-exempt, and let's all demand a podium in Iowa's debate!

[redqueen]

237. The same reason anyone else does. It's not rocket science.

I'm sure there are rules defining what conditions need to be met to use part of your house as a "home office"... I know the IRS has their own. It doesn't require a degree in theoretical physics to specify that stuff.

They didn't.

For you to make such ridiculous assertions about tax-exempt religious organizations is just silly. There are rules that define who gets to claim that title as well.

All this waffling around trying to make what they did make sense is just sad.

[Orrex]

242. You're placing blame on the wrong person

Leaving aside my quest for tax-exempt status, let's consider Kucinich's situation.

At some point he had to sit down with his handlers and make the conscious decision that a dubious "home office" with one part time campaigner would qualify as an office according to the standards set by the state in which he allegedly wants to debate. Does it seem reasonable to you that no one in the course of those meetings voiced a concern that maybe, just maybe, one guy in a dubious home office wouldn't meet the requirements?

And, in the wake of such a discussion, what do you think would be the responsible course of action? To sit back and hope that you've understood the requirements correctly? Or to contact the Iowa board of elections to determine precisely what the state requires?

I, for one, call the phone company when I'm not sure of what my service entails; I would hope that a nominally serious presidential contender would be similarly dilligent in his campaign.

[redqueen]

250. Yes, by all means...

he should have spent his time forcing the state to clarify its rules for him. It's completely unreasonable for him to just read the requirements as they are, and take them at face value.

Pfft.



edit: its not it's

[MilesColtrane]

255. After he was excluded from a debate 3 weeks ago for not having an Iowa office.

He could have done something to ensure that it wouldn't happen again.

[redqueen]

257. Like spend money he apparently thinks he can't afford to spend.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

[Orrex]

258. It was foolish of him to assume that he understood them without seeking clarification

And, now that he has to face the consequences of his misunderstanding, he has no basis for complaining about unreasonable exclusion.

If he were a serious candidate, he or one his his staffers (perhaps the guy in the "office" in Iowa) could have made the call. Instead, they took it on faith that they understood the requirements, and now they have to face it.

The student handbook said I had until March to withdraw from Basketweaving 101, stating "by the end of the seventh week of the semester." Silly me, I thought that it meant seventh full week, so now I'm stuck with an F in Basketweaving and a blot on my transcript.

Perhaps I should have spent my time forcing the school to clarify its rules for me?

Kucinich & Co. dropped the ball, and now they're looking to place blame.



PS. Don't sweat the it's/its thing--if I had a penny for every typo I've made like that, I'd be wealthy enough to campaign in Iowa.

[redqueen]

265. Baseless or not,

it gets press. :P

[Debi]

160. I'll do it!

I'm not in Des Moines, but why should Des Moines get all the attention x(

(Do I get a salary or will this be all volunteer??)

[Orrex]

182. Volunteer, of course

My campaign warchest is even humbler than Kucinich's.

But on the plus side, my poll numbers aren't much lower than his...

[Debi]

184. Have you thought of a slogan yet? or positions? or are you just gonna wing it?

:yourock: I'm ready!

[Orrex]

202. My slogan will be "I'm not a Corporatist like those other candidates"

Seems to have worked so far for at least one contender.

And maybe I'll throw in a few crowd-pleasers like "healthcare for all," "zero emissions by 2008," and "a perpetual motion generator in every garage."

Wow--it's fun to make all kinds of wild proclamations when you don't have to worry about actually getting into the general election.

You'd better head down to the craft store for some posterboard and magic markers--I need some campaign posters pronto!

[Debi]

207. Can I use glitter? I LOVE glitter!

[Orrex]

211. It would hardly count as a campaign poster without glitter

And maybe some of those gold star-stickers. Those just reek of electability!

[Debi]

225. Now, hold on here. Unless you're planning on raising a little bit of cash

here in Iowa don't be asking me to go all out WHOLE HOG and buy gold star stickers. Those are premium. (of course, if it will get you in the debate.....)

[Orrex]

245. Hmm...

I don't want to drain my coffers this early in the game. What if we buy a roll of aluminum foil and some star-shaped cookie cutters? We'd still have to spring for glue, of course...

[helderheid]

62. Anything we can do to change their minds?

[denem]

63. Dennis is not campaigning in Iowa.

Has not. Is not. Will not. It's not just a campaign office - he decided to give the state a miss. He was excluded from the Iowa AARP debate for exactly the same reason: No office, no staff, no campaign He did not change course. If as his campaign says "The Iowa caucuses have been portrayed as having national implications" - he brought it on himself. No one in Iowa has had a chance to hear Kucinich. He stiffed them, they stiffed him back.

[penguin7]

68. Not true

Kucinich has campaigned in Iowa.

He is not putting major resources in the state and he is focused on New Hampshire.

[denem]

82. When? Where?

[penguin7]

91. Google is your friend

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/ia08/iavkucinich.html

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH): Iowa Visits
updated through November 12, 2007 5 visits, 6 days
>Rep. Dennis Kucinich spoke at the United Auto Workers conference at the Grand River Center in Dubuque, Iowa on the afternoon of November 12, 2007.
>Rep. Dennis Kucinich visited Iowa on October 6, 2007. He plans a speech and meet and greet at the Farmers Market in Cedar Rapids; spoke in the Alumni Campus Center at Loras College, sponsored by Loras Democrats, in Dubuque; and spoke at the Johnson County Democrats' Annual Barbeque at the Johnson County Fairgrounds in Iowa City. -verifying CR-ed.

>Rep. Dennis Kucinich participated in the LiveStrong Presidential Cancer Forum at U.S. Cellular Center in Cedar Rapids, Iowa on August 27, 2007.

>Rep. Dennis Kucinich visited Iowa on August 18-19, 2007. On August 18 he did a meet the candidate/fundraiser event at Morning Star Studio in Fairfield; and addressed labor leaders at the Hawkeye Labor Council Forum at Hawkeye Downs Expo Hall in Cedar Rapids. On August 19 he participated in the ABC News/Iowa Democratic Party Debate at Drake University’s Sheslow Auditorium in Des Moines; and did a meet the candidate event at Creative Visions in Des Moines.

>Rep. Dennis Kucinich visited Iowa on April 12, 2007. At the State Capitol in Des Moines he met with activists, did an impromptu press conference, spoke to the House Democratic Caucus, and spoke to the Senate Democratic Caucus; he did a lunch at A Dong Restaurant in Des Moines; met with the Des Moines Register editorial board; spoke at the Iowa State Education Association Delegate Assembly at the Hilton Coliseum in Ames; and spoke at a meeting of the Jasper County Democratic Central Committee at the Park Centre retirement facility in Newton. Kucinich also had dinner in Newton.

[Hobarticus]

96. "Visited" is the key word there....why no campaign office?

One would think if a candidate was taking a state seriously, he'd have a campaign office there.

[Beelzebud]

127. So if you can't pay for 50 offices nation-wide you don't deserve to run?

[Hobarticus]

141. Never said that...actually, no one did. Not sure where that came from

But if you expect to be taken seriously in all 50 states, ESPECIALLY the first state out of the chute, why wouldn't you want an office in all 50 states?

Not saying I agree with this, but I don't understand why DK wouldn't open an Iowa office.

Any ideas?

[denem]

146. Not 50 States - ONE office in the FIRST state.

it's not rocket science.

[MilesColtrane]

121. Interesting..

So he goes to Iowa to raise cash, but then apparently doesn't use that money to rent space for his staff.

Where is he spending Iowans money, New Hampshire?

[MADem]

390. Here's one place where he spent his presidential campaign cash

Bet he found a boatload of supporters/votes on this junket: http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2007/09/kucinich_campaign_expenditure.html

Kucinich's latest campaign expenditure: Middle East travel
Posted by Stephen Koff September 04, 2007 15:18PM

He could be in Iowa or New Hampshire like other presidential candidates, but Dennis Kucinich's campaign this week has taken him to Syria and Lebanon instead. That's right -- the Democratic peace candidate and his wife, Elizabeth, are in the Middle East on the campaign's dime.

It's an unusual expenditure for a campaign, since there aren't many people in Damascus and Beirut qualified to vote in a U.S. presidential primary. But since Kucinich, a longshot candidate, talks during appearances about bringing peace to the Middle East, it makes sense for him to meet with leaders there, his campaign says.

"He felt it was important to meet with leaders in the region who have the ability to deal with the problems there," said Kucinich campaign spokesman Andy Juniewicz.

Federal Election Commission rules do not speak to this exact use of contributor money but they appear to offer leeway. The rules say that in addition to using a campaign treasury to pay for lawful activities directly related to winning votes, the funds can be used in connection with an officeholder's bona fide duties -- including travel for an officeholder and spouse on a fact-finding trip made in an official capacity. Any gray areas would have to be settled by the FEC commissioners.

Kucinich, a 12 year House member, did not officially discuss the trip in advance with the State Department or Bush administration, but Juniewicz said that the west side Cleveland congressman is "not doing diplomacy. It's a fact-finding mission and peace initiative."....

[LoZoccolo]

93. He might be deliberately playing the victim.

Pathetic, but it looks like it's working even in this thread.

LaRouche does the same thing; he lives in Virginia where he cannot register to vote because he was a felon, and then complains (and gets his followers to do likewise) when he is not permitted in the debates due to the fact that he cannot run for the Democratic nomination, not having registered to vote.

[acmavm]

65. This is just ridiculous. To the point of being un-American.

[ryanmuegge]

73. Kucinich is dangerous

I figured this would happen sooner or later. He disturbs the gatekeepers with the possibility of broadening the policy debate. Really, I'm surprised Ron Paul has made it as far as he has in the Republican "debates." Anybody that doesn't play by the rule of, offer the same substance in different packages, is excluded sooner or later.

[MilesColtrane]

122. How dangerous can somebody be who can't muster the support of 2% of registered voters?

I'm not a Dennis hater. I like some of his policy positions.

But, I'm not buying into his exclusion being based on his ideas.

[cyclezealot]

138. he has talked of breaking up the media monopoly

you think that not a threat to their media control. Pretty obvious to me.

[MilesColtrane]

229. Mike Gravel must then be at least as dangerous as Dennis.

They were both excluded three weeks ago from another Iowa debate.

Maybe it was Gravel's plan to limit Matlock reruns that made the AARP consider him too dangerous to be allowed at that debate?

[ClintonTyree]

414. Dennis has "talked" about a lot of things.

He "talks" about a lot of red-meat issues dear to the far left. But that's all he does.......talk. We hear a lot from him about filing articles of impeachment, but where are they? Still in the "talking" stage. He's had ample time to file the articles, but he likes to keep dangling the carrot on the stick a lot better. It keeps people riled up and talking about him. But have his actions kept up with his talk? Well, in a word, no. Dennis "talks" a good game but I've seen no action to suggest he's to be taken seriously.

[ryanmuegge]

148. And you may be right, but by that logic, why are scrubs like Richardson and Biden participate?

I mean, if electability is the only criteria. Those guys have absolutely no chance of winning, either. Why isn't it only limited to the big three? Ultimately, nobody can know internal motives, but it does seem a legitimate possibility that the exclusion is based upon ideas.

Note: I'm not dissing Biden or Richardson. I mean they are scrubs in the polls.

[MilesColtrane]

201. I wasn't advocating exclusion of candidates based on poll numbers.

I was arguing that Gannett, which owns the Des Moines Register, whose editors excluded Kucinich, isn't going to consider someone with 2% of the support of Democratic Iowans a dangerous man.

The other candidates with relatively low poll numbers in Iowa have at least built a campaign structure there.

Chris Dodd (polling at 1% of support) has a main office and 11 field offices.

Joe Biden (polling at 5%) has a main office and 11 regional field offices for his staff members.

Bill Richardson (polling at 7%) has a main office and 13 field offices in the state.

Dennis Kucinich has a guy in his house with an email address.

[MADem]

392. Dodd's kid is going to public school in Iowa, and he's living in a rented house. NT

[FREEWILL56]

189. DK is dangerous to who? Maybe your candidate?

He played by the rules and the newspaper changed them it would seem as to only exclude DK. The IRS does recognize the viability of a home office with a full time paid person there, but the Des Moines Register it seems does not and never specified a store front in their requirements.

[pberq]

74. Sickening - but not altogether unexpected

[DFW]

85. This is petty, transparent, and wrong

Although I am not a Kucinich supporter, he does say a lot of the right things
(as TFT put it in their Kucinich song: "I say without blinking/what everyone's
thinking/but no one else dares or can") and because he has nothing to lose
actually speaks his mind, and speaks for us way more than many of the "main"
candidates do, who dare not speak out publicly for fear of offending some loud-
but-noisy, beyond-their-significance bloc of voters.

Silencing him lets the others get off easy, and this is to nobody's benefit
except the Republicans, who prefer that, while they, too, are campaigning in
Iowa, that no one point out too graphically why they are all such failures.

[truedelphi]

95. You make an extremely important point

Usually it is because of the Outsiders that the progressive gains that were made in this country were made.

Look at these three early twentieth century political struggles:

WOmen's liberation (Under the guise of the Women having the right to vote i.e. the Suffragettes)

The child labor laws

The 40 hour work week

The Suffragettes were independent of political parties because they were not able to vote.
The 40 hour work week and child labor laws came into being because of people like Jennings, a third party candidate, and the tremendous influence they had with the people, who then influenced the Mainstream candidates to change.

Without allowing the Outsider, in this case, Dennis Kucinich, to even come aboard at the debates, well, it is yet another way that the Corporatist Elite are GUARANTEEING their ability to frame the content of the debate.

[Occam Bandage]

86. Well, he's not running a campaign in Iowa, so I understand Iowa not inviting him.

However, I'd rather see him in. The best possible solution would be for DK to actually run for President.

[amb123]

87. Freedom of Speech? Only Commies and Terrorists want that!

:sarcasm:

[Plucketeer]

88. Wrong,

Wrong, WRONG!!!!! :grr: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[Solar Power]

89. Plucketeer is correct.

Wrong is wrong. I cannot see how these people can ethically keep out Dennis. It makes the process look bad. There is no other way to spin it. This is just plain wrong. .......Solar..

[Nihil]

90. What do you expect in the best "democracy" that money can buy?

Silly wabbits ... you still think that you are in charge?

Someone pays their money and you get their choice.

"Campaign contributions" buy snazzy content-free publicity.

"Lobbyists" buy snazzy content-free politicians.

"The general public" buy a shitty content-free life and pretend
that it's whatever they're told by their TVs.

Just ignore the hecklers and go back to sleep.

:shrug:

[JDPriestly]

92. In this day and age of computers, many of us work in our homes

We carry on respected professions in our homes. And it has always been that many. Many old-time doctors saw patients in home offices. This is ridiculous.

[K Gardner]

94. UnFREAKIN believable ! That is outrageous ! n/t

[Michael101]

97. What can we do?

Maybe Kucinich Iowan supporters can protest outside.

[cyclezealot]

98. I hope so you do.

I made my phone call. Tancredo and Keyes have a role in today's Goper debate, but not Kucinich. What a put up job, pure bull s***. A hoax. Proves how great a candidate we have in Kucinich.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

99. This can be explained in one word -- fear. nt.

[pjt7]

104. I just called the Iowa

editors desk & they said no Kucinich will not be allowed to debate & sorry..blah...blah..blah - all the editors who made the decision are at the Republican debate.

I'd like to see a little high-mindedness, unity, from the Democratic party & have one of the candidates mention his snubbing.

The Democrats as a team can win this election & help right the U.S. ship, but they all need to work together.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

107. It would be nice if they'd show some unity...

...in this instance. DK is clearly being wronged here and it would reflect well on the other candidates to acknowledge that in some way.

Hey, welcome to DU, look forward to seeing you around.

:hi:

[taylor egv420106]

134. I called to congratulate the Register

Its about time someone stopped acting like Kucinich was in any way shape or form a legitimate candidate.

[Name removed]

168. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[taylor egv420106]

177. I'll put my Democratic party history up against yours

any day of the week.

I've been working with Dem candidates for over 25 years pal.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

186. Pal? Oh joy, a new friend...

...and here I mistook you for Freeper, heck I don't even care if you are a Freeper. If you'll be my Pal I'll agree with anything you say. Dennis Kucinich very bad man -- how's that, Pal?

:pals:

[taylor egv420106]

196. Whatever you say Chumley

Dont you have some movin' on up to do?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

204. Whatever I say? Oh great, pal...

...here's what I say: they're excluding him because they fear him and then lie about their real reasons for doing so -- apparently on DU this lying is to be done through the county foot rest.

[taylor egv420106]

221. Actually

The lying appears to be done through Kucinich Press releases. Ditto for the whining and crying.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

232. Yeah, you'll do a lot for your own...

...credibility calling the Kucinich people liars.

[taylor egv420106]

266. I'm sure not as much good

as you are doing claiming any argument for not having him in the debate are "lies".

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

236. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxanne]

260. awww

no need to get defensive at being caught out.

[Justyce]

176. Isn't it up to the voters to decide who is or isn't a "legitimate candidate"??

[pnwmom]

309. We could have hundreds or even thousands of "candidates" if it was as simple

as putting your name on the ballot. There needs to be some indication of seriousness.

I think DK is serious, but I am disappointed that he didn't make a more serious effort in a key state like Iowa.

[bitchkitty]

391. What is your problem? What is your agenda? n/t

[Michael101]

100. Can you guys help out Dennis Kucinich

I got this from the Dennis Kucinich action center.

Can you guys please call these individuals and let them know that we would like to hear Dennis Kucinich's message.

You should also know that all Republican Presidential candidates were invited even those with low poll numbers. Ask them why that is.

Come on people don't let Bush&Cheney and his crook buddies walk out with millions of dollars from the white house.

Dennis is the only one that informs the public what is going in the congress.

This election is not over, we got until NOVEMBER TO CHOOSE A PRESIDENT.



contacting the register
officers and department headsLaura HollingsworthPresident and Publisher(515) 284-8041Rick BellVice President, Circulation(515) 284-8319Kevin D. HallVice President, Advertising(515) 284-8384Julie HarveyVice President, Finance(515) 284-8226Kevin R. JohnsonVice President, Production(515) 471-3505Susan Patterson PlankVice President, Marketing and Digital Development(515) 284-8261Joyce M. RayVice President, Human Resources(515) 284-8586Carolyn WashburnVice President, Editor(515) 284-8502R. Dee WilsonVice President, Information Services(515) 284-8385

[Triana]

101. This really sucks....

...what a dumbarse idiotic EXCUSE to exclude Kucinich!

:wtf:

WHAT REPUBLICAN owns the DesMoines Register?

Seriously, who owns that paper?

[FREEWILL56]

206. I don't know if this helps,

but this is what I dug up on the paper's site:

In July 1985, The Des Moines Register was purchased by Gannett Co., Inc., becoming one of the media giant's largest newspaper holdings. Gannett is the nation's most diverse information company, serving readers, viewers and listeners in more than 44 states, the District of Columbia, Guam, the Virgin Islands, Great Britain, Germany, Hong Kong and Switzerland.

Do note that this paper isn't just for the city of Des Moines as researching their site shows it is delivered statewide. Now what republican(s) owns Gannett?

[Triana]

361. Gannett, Inc..

http://www.cjr.org/resources/


Gannett Co., Inc.
7950 Jones Branch Drive
McLean, VA 22107
Voice [phone]
www.gannett.com

* Holdings

Publishing
largest newspaper group in terms of circulation
Daily Newspapers - National
USA TODAY
USA WEEKEND
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Gannett News Service
Daily Newspapers
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The Montgomery Advertiser
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The News Journal (Wilmington)
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FLORIDA TODAY (Brevard County)
News-Press (Fort Myers)
Pensacola News Journal
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Pacific Daily News
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The Honolulu Advertiser
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Indiana
Journal and Courier (Layfayette)
Chronicle-Tribune (Marion)
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The Indianapolis Star
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Iowa City Press-Citizen
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BrassRing, Inc. (23%)
Space.com (partial investment with GE)
CareerBuilder (with Knight Ridder and Tribune)

[mirrera]

398. Breaking up Media ownership is one of DK's issues...

You can see how much it is needed just by that list. What a joke...

So far in every debate, in every speech —even though I am leaning towards Edwards for electability— Kucinich says what I believe. Period. Except for the Ron Paul lets love everyone moment, he speaks for me. Completely. No other candidate does on every single issue except DK.

Is he for real? I don't know, but if not, at least he is savvy enough to know what to say. My mom says his campaign is the only one that shows up every year to protest the school of Americas. That means a lot to me.

[Triana]

413. Breaking up media ownership OUGHT to be tops on any candidate's list of issues....

..and I'm with you RE: DK. Love the guy - on all the issues - but it's Edwards for electability. It's patently UNFAIR to him (DK) what they've done here.

I'm wishing for Edwards/DK but doubt it'll happen - and wonder if this puritanical electorate would vote for such a progressive team. They (too many of them) don't seem much interested in PROGRESS. But I would!

[mirrera]

440. Me too! Edwards/Kucinich would be incredible...

So would Edwards Obama. Obama is really good with bringing people together. It would be great to have a fighter and a peacemaker and put Dennis in charge of State...

[Maestro]

102. What a ridiculous reason! Some democracy.

Fred off the streets should be allowed to debate. Fucking stupid!

[IronLionZion]

103. Tom Tancredo and Alan Keyes are very much present in today's debate

assholes.

[Renew Deal]

112. I think that's fair.

How can you run a "national" campaign without even one office in Iowa?

[eridani]

381. So, now you're cheerleeding for Keyes and Tancredo?

They have no offices in Iowa, and they are in the Repub debate.

[greguganus]

113. FLOOD THE DES MOINES REGISTER WITH LTTE'S

Looking at their website, they have no LTTE's about excluding Kucinich. I bet they are getting lots of letters, but not publishing them.

[Jackpine Radical]

116. If he's on the ^%^$$#@ ballot, he oughtta be in the #@$%%^&* debate!!1!

[hfojvt]

117. this is the 2nd time this has happened, and I still blame DK

If he is serious about his campaign, then he should have an office in the Quad cities (from which point it could serve Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin). It would not cost that much, would it? Maybe $10,000 a month, and it would pay for itself in publicity and assisting the campaign. If he cannot do that, it is because he does not, unfortunately, have enough support either in Iowa or nationwide. By reducing the field, it makes for a better debate among candidates who do have significant support.

[taylor egv420106]

118. He reaps what he sows

I know this isnt a fun thing to hear but KUCINICH IS NOT A REAL CANDIDATE.

I mean real as in having
a) a snowballs chance in hades
b) more than five bucks in campaign cash
c) an actual campaign office that doesn't reek of ganja weed
d) an actual history of running a campaign in the state.

[provis99]

351. frankly, the only real candidate in Iowa is Hillary

she blows away every other candidate in poll after poll; so why bother inviting Edwards, Obama, Biden, or any of the others, either? Let's have a one-person debate, if only poll numbers matter, anyways.

[eridani]

382. Even better-- let's just cancel all the caucuses and primaries

Just look at the PDC data and award the nomination to the candidate who has collected the most money.

[Oeditpus Rex]

120. What a petty, elitist rule

When I was city editor of a small daily newspaper in this rural county a few years ago, we ran the typical profiles of candidates for local offices prior to general elections. If we'd chosen to not profile a candidate for the county board of supervisors for the sparsely populated southernmost district, some 50 miles south of the county seat, because that candidate didn't maintain an office and staff in town, I would've expected to see a procession of torch-carrying protestors outside the newsroom — and rightfully so.

The Register would do well to recall the entirety of Finley Peter Dunne's famous caveat on the power of the press rather than bask in the part of it so often quoted out of context:

"Th newspaper does ivrything f'r us. It runs th' polis foorce an' th' banks, commands th' milishy, controls th' ligislachure, baptizes th' young, marries th' foolish, comforts th' afflicted, afflicts th' comfortable, buries th' dead an' roasts thim aftherward."

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oeditpus Rex]

156. Because it affects the candidates who don't have the corporate bankroll

to set up full shop everywhere they go. This is more than "the most remotely modicum of effort." The Register is, in effect, levying a poll tax, similar to that if it allowed only its subscribers to attend the forum. This is a Reganesque "I'm paying for this microphone" moment.

Do you want the media to decide whom are the "legitimate candidates," particularly by criteria such as this?

As for your gross characterization of Kucinich supporters, well...

"No generalization is worth a damn — including this one." —Oliver Wendell Holmes

[taylor egv420106]

222. You show me where

You have a CONSTIUTIONAL right to participate in a debate thrown by a private entity such as the Des Moines Register?

[pjt7]

227. taylor egv

What democratic candidate do you support?

[taylor egv420106]

238. At Present

I am an Obama supporter, though I must admit if by chance Biden were still around when I get to vote I would be VERY tempted.

[Name removed]

239. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Debi]

271. Wow, nothing like breaking DU rules to welcome a new poster

who doesn't agree with you. :eyes:

[Oeditpus Rex]

295. If this were mere disagreement

I wouldn't have said what I said. But here we have someone who registered today and whose posts have been devoted not just to disagreement, but to labeling a Democratic candidate "illegitimate" and his supporters as "sniveling crybabies."

If it walks like a duck, etc.

[Debi]

296. Is there a rule about how many posts a person is allowed to make in one thread

on their first day?

The poster has already said their father is a county chair that was told by Kucinich that he couldn't afford the $10.00 ticket to attend a county fundraiser here in Iowa. Yet Kucinich can afford to fly to Florida and California and Hawaii to attend campaign events. (I won't even go into how many headquarters he has nationwide but only has a guy in Dubuque Iowa running his office out of his apartment).

DK has chosen not to run in Iowa, doesn't' want to attend county events or local events, but wants to be treated seriously only when the national press arrives.

Give the new poster the benefit of the doubt, they might have information (from Iowa) that neither you or I have.

[Oeditpus Rex]

299. Then that poster can relay that information

in a manner that isn't insulting to the candidate and to other DUers.

[Debi]

406. Right, which is something we should relay to the new poster

in a non-condesending manner rather than name-calling and accusations. How does a new poster learn about being polite and non-confrontational if all they encounter is rudeness and attacks?

[kenfrequed]

418. hmm

Your unwavering support of this new poster is admirable. Would that you had the patience to look at the manner of communications.

[FREEWILL56]

445. So debi are you willing to correct your buddy on the rules?

See taylor's post on #226. Seems the mods allow him to do it too, but don't dare call you 2 what you are and doing huh?

[rAVES]

333. Kucinich stands up very well in straw polls here on DU.. thats a lot of informed voters

You haven't a leg to stand on, this isn't about "a constitutional right" to partake in the Debates, its about voters being disenfranchised by a media outlet that has taken the task to hold a presidential debate, the paper will ultimatly profit from such a service, its not a charity. This is about common decency, something you appear to be lacking in spades...

You would be in an absolute minority supporting their stance, unless you go over to say.. Free Republic with the other foaming at the mouth lunatics..


Also.. anyone think this is about muting what would be his wildly popular articles of impeachment?

[MilesColtrane]

272. John Edwards doesn't take corporate money, yet he's got several campaign offices..

..in Iowa.

Kucinich has over $300,00 cash on hand. One fully staffed office in Iowa would cost $5,000 maybe.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

198. They fear him so they exclude him, it's that simple. nt.

[taylor egv420106]

224. He shuns campaigning so they shun him

Plain and simple.

[Name removed]

247. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carrieyazel]

124. This is wrong. We need to hear other voices. A lot of people are sick of Hillary Obama..

[taylor egv420106]

131. Well gee, if a pathetic slur like that doesnt work

You might want to try an actual legitimate argument.

[U4ikLefty]

337. Kind of like your "ganja weed" comment in post 118

Pot meet kettle.

[Beelzebud]

125. The Best Democracy Money Can Buy...

[MilesColtrane]

130. Looks like his campaign only has a little over $300,000 cash on hand at this point.

Why not put it into the first three primary states?

I don't understand that decision.

[taylor egv420106]

132. Because DK only really cares about DK

Notice he has money for FLORIDA and anyplace sunny.

DK's supporters are chumps chipping in for a vacation fund for him and the wife.

They either dont know or just dont care.

[cyclezealot]

144. will be great when we DK supporters can go back to focusing on the Repukes.

Because the rest of the Democratic pack are so pathetic, we progressives can take a vacation and consider getting re-activated when Nader runs. As Robert Scheer calls Hillary, Bush lite. No thanks.

[taylor egv420106]

150. I just have one question

What does it look like to be jumping so high and see a shark wayyyy down below you?

[katadin706]

152. Taylor on IGNORE

Taylor -- in case you haven't noticed, your juvenile antics have been placed on IGNORE. Just thought I'd point that out since you seem to be OBLIVIOUS.

[taylor egv420106]

157. I not only didn't notice

I dont particularly care. I notice you can't disagree with any of my posts, your only response is to whine, stuff your fingers in your ears and cry how you cant hear me.

[cyclezealot]

154. what might that shark be Hillary.

[taylor egv420106]

159. Nope just the one you are jumping.

[DutchLiberal]

149. It has already been determined by the corporate elite that HRC will be the next president.

This is just more ample proof.

[Cleita]

170. This is the second time he has been omitted from a political

event involving Democratic candidates in Iowa.

[JerseygirlCT]

174. I think he's got a snowball's chance, but this seems pointless

why exclude him? What does that do?

Let him come. He often has provocative things to say which make the whole event more interesting.

[taylor egv420106]

178. What you want more UFO stories?

[JerseygirlCT]

193. LOL

Why not?

Actually, I'd prefer to stick to substantive things. But he's got things to say, too. (I'm not a supporter, btw. Think he's good-hearted, but somewhat nutty...)

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

215. Isn't this a school day in Iowa...

...does the county chair know that the county foot rest is home playing on the computer?

[taylor egv420106]

226. What does your wife have to do with anything?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

234. Ooooh good one...

[taylor egv420106]

240. Thank you

I appreciate the support.

[taylor egv420106]

249. I'm sure your wit is the envy

of your short bus you ride home.

[maxanne]

235. when

did DK tell UFO stories at a debate?

Why do you keep telling lies?

[Norrin Radd]

409. I'll take a UFO story over a Jesus story, any day.

[Yukari Yakumo]

216. Which also begs the question...

Why include him? What does he bring to the debate? UFO stories? Half-assed excuses to impeach Chimpy & Co.?

(While they've given us plenty of excuses to impeach them, Kuch's latest HR Impeachment bill is really poorly thought out and written.)

[go west young man]

253. You do realize the UFO question was posed to Dennis intentionally

by our MSM to discredit him don't you? Do you think it's just a coincidence they came up with that question? Apparently you swallowed that bait and never gave it a second thought. Dennis gave an honest answer. If honesty bothers you then good luck with what you get after the election. I'm sure it won't be as good or honest as Dennis is.

[pnwmom]

310. I think it was a legitimate question, since MacLaine claims that DK not only saw

a UFO -- which is not particularly unusual -- but watched it hover for a period of time and listened to some sort of message from it.

I wish DK had just said that he didn't remember receiving any message. Unfortunately, he left the issue hanging.

He would have done himself a favor if he had taken that moment in the debate to put the issue to bed forever -- but he didn't.

[maxanne]

348. give me a break

How was that a legitimate DEBATE question?

You'd be sreaming your lungs out if anyone asked Hillary if she really killed Vince Foster
but by your logic, that would be a legitimate debate question, after all, Christopher Anderson wrote it in a book.

[pnwmom]

366. The comparison isn't valid. Christopher Anderson isn't a good friend of HRC's,

as MacClaine is of DK's.

And the Clintons denied having anything to do with Foster's death, of course. DK hasn't denied MacClaine's account of his UFO experience.

I suppose you would have preferred it if they framed it more as a debate question, e.g.: "Shirley MacClaine has described how you received a message from a UFO. If you are elected President, how will you respond if another UFO sends you a message?"

Or, "Have you ever received a message from a UFO and, if so, what was the message and how did you respond to it?"

:sarcasm:

[go west young man]

377. The point is that a question like that does not belong in the debate

in the first place. What does Shirley McClains book have to do with US policy? Nothing. The question was loaded to go off in Dennis's face. His only fault was that he was honest.

[maxanne]

441. you haven't explained

how this was in any way a worthy question for a debate.

As a matter of fact, if you'd listened to DK's response, he said that he and McClaine didn't remember it the same way.

But who cares - whenever there's a chance to marginalize a progressive - best jump on it, right!!??

[kenfrequed]

419. Whats next?

Asking a Catholic if they actually saw Jesus when they got their feet washed?

No, this is not a legitimate inquiry, nor is it relevant to being president. It was an attempt to dismiss or discredit.

[Yukari Yakumo]

191. Who's the pathetic one?

The Register or Kuch? I say Kuch and here's why, and it's ultra simple.

It is because the exact same thing happened in regards to the AARP forum two months ago, and yet Kucinich has done nothing to rectify the situation. Can anyone who is presented a serious problem with their campaign, and yet does nothing about it, be regarded as a serious candidate? Just how much would it take to rent one office space in Iowa? And it shouldn't be too difficult to find someone in Iowa to work as a campaign staffer. There is no excuse for Kucinich for failing to meet even the most basic of requirements.

BTW, I wonder how much those campaign trips to California, Florida, Hawaii, and Syria cost Dennis...

[Michael101]

195. You're the pathetic one.

Dennis has an Iowa office. His staff is working from a house office.

Again all republican candidates including Alan Keyes and Tom Tacredo were invited. Alan Keyes doesn't have an office in Iowa.

[Yukari Yakumo]

205. Then provide a location, names.

And house "office" is not the same as a real office. And he needs a real full-time paid staff.

A supporter working out of his home does not count.

[maxanne]

223. what are you afraid of Aya

why is it so important to exclude?

It's interesting that the Democrats work hard to exclude - while the GOP chooses to include all of their candidates.

[Yukari Yakumo]

251. oy oy oy...

my how misinformed you are...

The parties do not choose the participants. The Des Moines Register does.

Lesse here...

http://www.cityfeet.com/CommercialRealEstateForLease/DetailedListing.aspx?PartnerPath=IowaCommercialRealEstateLocal/&UserListingId=887351
800 sqr ft. office in Waverly, IA
$450/mo. to rent

$450 * 3 mo. = $1350
$7/hr * 40 hr. * 12 people = $3360

$1350 + $3360 = $4710

Kuch could have an office and staff for less than $5000.

[maxanne]

256. you

failed to answer my question.

Why is it so important to you to exclude? Why are you afraid of Kucinich?

Why is Alan "No office in Iowa" Keyes being INCLUDED?

[Yukari Yakumo]

315. Phony strawman, dodge-the-issue argument.

Better question is to ask why Kucinich couldn't have been bothered to establish an office with a skeleton crew staff for a mere three months at the very least.

[maxanne]

347. Well, babydoll

when you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.

Why are you so eager to see a Democrat disenfranchised?

Why don't Republicans do this to each other?

[eridani]

383. So, you're an Alan Keyes supporter? He doesn't even have a home office in Iowa n/t

[L0oniX]

303. Indeed ...democrats a bit self destructive.

The real destruction will be when Hillary takes the primary and we lose to whatever fucknut asscarrot the repukes come up with.

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MilesColtrane]

275. Keyes passed the test according to the debate's sponsor: Iowa Public Television.

[cyclezealot]

248. Keyes spoke tonight in Des Moines.

he has no Iowa office. Its just the American press is intimidated by his call to break up their monopoly. And censoring something they do not want you to hear.

[Ricki]

217. This is awful!!!

Essentially, they are saying only big money candidates count. What they should be concerned with is giving all candidates a voice so we can make a choice for ourselves! They should not choose for us.

[BigDDem]

243. DK is a joke

clearly, many people have not figured that out yet.

[allisonthegreat]

252. To each his own that is why we have primaries

However he makes more sense than the "big three"...

[maxanne]

263. if that's true

why bother to even point it out?

The fact that you felt the need to do so would indicate otherwise.

[go west young man]

246. let's turn the tables and say Hillary Clinton didn't set up campaign

offices in Iowa instead she worked the net roots from her home with just one staffer. Would she still be given the opportunity to debate? Of course she would...she's Hillary fucking Clinton!

[BigDDem]

262. but you see that wouldnt happen

she's a serious candidate

[go west young man]

350. I the MSM put as much time and money into Dennis he would be a

serious candidate too. Unfortunately for Dennis he doesn't represent their interests well. So yes your right Hillary is a serious candidate. To them.

[BigDDem]

424. Right. It's the faul of the "MSM"

oh, and dont forget to blame the "powers that be."

[madrchsod]

264. dam 267 posts and counting about dennis!

has he ever had that many posts at one time in du ? i did`t think that many actually cared enough to post about him...i guess the obama <-> hillary folks are on lunch break....

[onethatcares]

273. and we still think our votes mean anything?

the illusion goes on and on. k ryst it has more energy than the everready bunny, face it folks, we're owned by the moneyed, we get what they want us to and if we question it, we get this crap. I quit wondering why JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm X and the rest have been killed. They tried to make us think.
A big no/no in this country. Now, go shopping the market isn't doing quite as good as it should.

[obiwan]

277. Personally, I have nothing against Denis Kucinich.

He's a fine human being, and his political views are close to mine. But it's the Des Moine Register's sandbox, so to speak. They paid for it, and they get to make the rules. Unfair, maybe, but perfectly legal (and ethical.)

[cyclezealot]

284. and to think some silly people think the media to be a

fair medium. How else do we get out news. as we say, you want to practice your first amendment rights buy a printing press. Well, now we need to buy tv stations too. And we wonder why our citizens are so poorly informed. I hope we helped to keep Des Moines Register staff have a lousy day. Someone said their phones are ringing off the hook. Hope so. Hope you all enjoyed Alan Keyes today at the Des Moines GOP debate. Now, He sure is mainstream.

[Debi]

293. And it's only the last debate before the Iowa caucuses - but not the last debate

of the campaign. AND Kucinich is a rarity in Iowa so I question how strong his support is here anyway. It looks like he's organizing in NH/NV and some of the February 5th states (and Florida and Michigan). That's where he wants to run, so be it. Hard to win a race in a state that you don't campaign in.

[Yukari Yakumo]

316. I thought he didn't even get the paperwork done correctly to be on the MI ballot. {nt}

uguu

[Debi]

404. reverse that = to be removed from the ballot

since he's stuck on the ballot he is now campaigning there.

[AlertLurker]

278. Kooch's campaign is right - it's “arbitrary and unreasonable exclusion.”

That being said, it pretty much sums up his campign so far. Even when he's actually invited to a debate, the MSM ignores and excludes him, calling on him as little as possible, especially COMPARATIVELY (when asked the same question as others), asking stupid questions like Russert, etc.

I believe that one of the ONLY reasons that Kooch stuck EXACTLY to the rules and regs and kept a campaign office and a staffer in Iowa was to engage in these debates. He knew he didn't have an honest shot in Iowa - he considers the state caucus rigged - but really only wanted to get his message across the best way he can - open debate.

Kucinich looks too darn good in an open debate format for the Register (and perhaps to the Iowa Caucus), I suppose. They, like a good many in the MSM have a healthy fear of the man. It doesn't look good for the MSM and other candidates to have a candidate that can walk his talk as well as Kooch. They must have seen the Nevada CNN debate where, with only 5:37 of the total time allotted, he really distinguished himself from the other candidates. None of the others seem to really want to debate him for exactly this reason - he makes EVERYONE ELSE LOOK BAD. He doesn't pick on just one candidate, he puts the boots to ALL OF THEM COLLECTIVELY. Every time he stands out against all the rest, he gains support.

In any case - I hope he gets a lot of mileage out of this “arbitrary and unreasonable exclusion...” I realize that he is focusing on NH, but I hope he anticipates this kind of BS in other states, too.

I'm so disgusted, I think I'll have to buy a couple more sweatshirts (I have two already!)...

[Desertrose]

317. I tend to agree with you Alert Lurker

Good points. :)

[lovuian]

281. They must be terrified of him

thats a good sign this will back fire on them

[DissedByBush]

285. The expected engineering of Kucinich's failure has finally started

Kucinich is a danger to the corporate fat cats who control both parties at the expense of the people. He must be stopped

[FREEWILL56]

446. You are probably right about that.

It's no coincidence of what is taking place there or here and best of all is the voters of Iowa can see what's going on here. Some are trying to railroad him because he can win and has the best policies.
It's interesting debi didn't greet you as she did her cohort taylor. WELCOME TO DU.

[L0oniX]

294. Well I guess that means I won't be voting at all. There is no other candidate worth voting for.

I am going to LMAO when HC fucks us over and I am going to make you eat it.

[whistle]

297. Would it be possible to have a state close by to take over Iowa?

[Catchawave]

302. what debate?

Sorry, guess I missed the DU Meme about a debate this week :shrug:

[WildEyedLiberal]

305. Having read this entire thread I am struck by two things

A) The people who are actually from Iowa and are familiar with the situation on the ground all affirm that DK has done negligible campaigning in the state of Iowa, and have pointed out that it's a bit ludicrous for him not to claim to have enough money for an actual Iowa office and staff if he has money to campaign in other, less influential primary states;

B) Most of the people getting really worked up about this aren't from Iowa and don't seem to consider that Kucinich has apparently written off the state in terms of seriously contending as a winner.

I don't hate Kucinich and I like a lot of what he stands for, but it seems to me that he can't put zero effort into Iowa and then be surprised when he doesn't get much support or isn't invited to the debates there. If DK really realized that the Iowa caucuses have "national implications" as his statement reads, then he really should've been investing more time and money there.

Oh, also I'm getting really, really sick of presidential candidates hijacking Paul Wellstone's words ("Democratic wing of the Democratic party") to define themselves. The man's dead and it's extremely tacky to leech off his memory to pander for liberal support.

[maxanne]

313. I'm struck by

a couple of things myself.

I'd be mad if YOUR candidate were excluded.

I'm astounded by the acceptance - even embrace of the right wing's agenda.

Heck, folks are defending censorship and exclusion!

Simply amazing.

[WildEyedLiberal]

320. If Kucinich hasn't been making any attempt to campaign in Iowa, why are you so shocked by this?

I don't have a favorite candidate so I really don't have a dog in this hunt. If my theoretical candidate had clearly not made much attempt to compete in Iowa, I couldn't really blame him or her for being excluded from a debate. That's just how it is - if you can't even make the token attempt of having a campaign office, then you probably shouldn't be surprised when you aren't seen as a serious candidate. It has nothing to do with DK's politics.

But whatever, you've decided to read "right wing agenda" and "censorship" into this, so facts be damned I suppose.

[maxanne]

329. a pity

you chose to attribute false emotions to me - and ignore the actual substance of my post.

How very eager you are to disenfranchise a Democrat. It's quite disturbing to see the pile on. As I've stated before, Republicans
don't savage one another in this way.

[Tarc]

346. He disenfranchised himself by not campaigning there

Get over it.

We're almost to the point where the 1-5 percenters get culled from the herd anyways. Kucinich, Dodd, Richardson, and Gravel have had more than enough time to try to gain traction, and have not done so.

[peace13]

365. Excuse me but this a primary to a national election

not picking the best pecan pie at the Iowa State Fair. Kucinich is a contender nationally and should be included! Where does a newspaper get of selecting participants to a debate that claims to be integral in deciding the President of the United States?

[Tarc]

408. No kidding

They've had their chance to make a dent in their sizable numbers gap, and have all been included in numerous debates. If Kucinich hasn't moved to the top by now, he's not going to.

And you do know that being invited into a debate is not a Constitutional right, right?

[peace13]

417. Be aware of who is counting the votes.

You are welcome to play the MSM game but I don't have the time. Kucinich has been polling well in certain areas. Happy you if you thinik your state will determine the President for the rest of us. In Ohio I prefer that we include all candidates until each state has a chance to speak. Peace. Kim

'And you do know that being invited into a debate is not a Constitutional right, right? '. I usually try to be nice but I am on my last nerve so....screw you.

[Tarc]

426. I understand

When it comes time to separate the wheat from the chaff, the chaff tends to get a bit grumpy.

:)

[maxanne]

434. that's what the primary is for

It's nice to see you so supportive of a Democratic candidate, however. No wonder the Democrats are such a force to be reckoned with.

[WildEyedLiberal]

358. I quoted your exact words back to you.

Unless you are now going to claim that you didn't in fact say that DK's exclusion from the debate was a "right wing agenda" and that I was in favor of "censorship"?

How am I "disenfranchising" anyone? Do you know what that word means? Who is being kept from voting?

Nothing in any of my posts has "savaged" Kucinich or you or anyone else here. I stated quite plainly that I like DK, but it's too bad he didn't invest any resources in campaigning in Iowa, particularly if he'd hoped to win there. I think you're so upset that you're not capable of discussing this rationally.

[Nihil]

332. Comments:

> A) The people who are actually from Iowa and are familiar with the situation on the
> ground all affirm that DK has done negligible campaigning in the state of Iowa ...

Most of the posts claiming to be from Iowa can be attributed to two posters and one
sock-puppet. I reserve some skepticism with regard to their objectivity.
You claim to be a lady from Illinois. I claim to be a gentleman from England.
Who really knows?

> B) Most of the people getting really worked up about this aren't from Iowa ...

Sometimes it helps to have the view from people who aren't being force-fed the usual
crap from the US media. Sometimes that view is unconditionally rejected from a variety
of reasons ranging from "NIH" to "f*ing foreigners" but the less rabid amongst DUers
will usually appreciate a more objective view.

:shrug:

What I - as an "outsider" - see here is that there has been some particular triangulation
with regard to the petty rules of a media outlet and that anyone who contests it is
rewarded with a pile-on by the supporters of said interpretation. To me, this smacks
big-time of "best democracy money can buy" ... maybe people should ask the Venezuelans
to moderate the primaries ...

:hide: :hi:

[WildEyedLiberal]

353. Well there are positive and negative things about getting most of your news from outside the US

I'll be the first person to say that the US news media is horrible. However, the posters to whom I am referring have been on DU for a long time and I trust their assessment of the situation in that state, more than I'd trust either US or other media outlets. They are "on the ground" so to speak and thus have a unique perspective about the behind-the-scenes situation of the campaigns that none of the rest of us can claim to know. So if several long-time trustworthy DU posters are saying "I live in Iowa and DK's campaign has been practically non-existent," I will believe them. Sometimes Occam's Razor holds true; not everything is a vicious conspiracy out to screw the "one true liberal hope" candidate. If DK couldn't have even bothered to open up a small office in Iowa, then I doubt he really planned on competing seriously in the state. I like a lot of what he stands for, but at the same time, if he isn't campaigning well, he can't really hope to get too much support. Being a good campaigner does not = being a good candidate necessarily, and vice versa.

[LWolf]

416. So I must conclude from your remarks

that my vote is less worthy than that of an Iowan. Less "influential." Less important, less valuable.

Of course, Iowa is a more important, more influential primary state.

Why bother to show up in my own primary at all? My candidate may not be on the ballot by then, excluded by Iowa voters and others who are "more influential" than I.

If that's the case, the Democratic Party can kiss my vote goodbye in the GE.

Either all votes, and voters, are equally weighted, or the Democratic Party has to be the most blatant living hypocrisy in the nation.

[WildEyedLiberal]

432. How can you conclude anything of the sort from my remarks?

My point is fairly simple: if DK wants to be taken seriously IN IOWA, then he needs to campaign hard IN IOWA. This isn't a very controversial thing to say. If he knows - as I am well sure he does, having campaigned for president before - that Iowa is one of the most important primary states, then he KNOWS that the viability of his future campaign lies in performing well in Iowa and New Hampshire. If he can prove a competitor in those states, then he will probably still be on the ballot when he arrives to your state. I made no argument for or against Iowa's primacy; but as things stand now, that is the way it is. Whether you or I or DK like it or not. And if he wants to be a serious presidential candidate, then he need to seriously compete in the key primary states.

[LWolf]

444. To clarify, in your own words:

<snip>

"A) The people who are actually from Iowa and are familiar with the situation on the ground all affirm that DK has done negligible campaigning in the state of Iowa, and have pointed out that it's a bit ludicrous for him not to claim to have enough money for an actual Iowa office and staff if he has money to campaign in other, less influential primary states;"

I conclude, based on what I've highlighted above, that Iowa is a more important, more influential primary state than my own. Therefore, Iowans' votes are more important than mine.

Are all votes, and voters, equally weighted, or is the Democratic Party to the most blatant living hypocrisy in the nation?

Kucinich has been to Iowa. He has an office in Iowa. Yes, it's in someone's home. Tight budgets are expected when corporations aren't funding the campaign. That's a strength, not a weakness, in my book.

[WildEyedLiberal]

462. Yeah, Iowa is a more important primary state than yours. Or mine.

I'm not saying that's right. I'm just saying, it is. And all the candidates know that, so it seems to me that they should focus their money in the first three or four primary states so they can make a good showing there - if DK did well in Iowa and NH, I'm betting he'd start to see a lot more money pouring in for later primaries.

How do you propose equality in the ordering of the primaries? If all 50 primaries were on the same day, the only candidates that would stand a chance would be big money driven candidates who can afford to blast the airwaves and who will pay for lots of media exposure. The only solution I can think of is having a rotating schedule in which a different set of states takes the early primaries each election year.

[LWolf]

463. My proposal:

1. Do away with caucuses, which wouldn't work under my proposal, in favor of primary votes.

2. Spread the primaries evenly out over the season. It doesn't matter who goes first or last.

3. All primary ballots are mailed in on paper ballots.

4. No ballots are opened or counted until the last primary is over.

I believe that this proposal would get more participation, would obviously equalize the votes from participants, and would keep all the candidates in the race until the end.

[Ricki]

427. is it tacky then

for other candidates to invoke JFK, FDR or Reagan? We all borrow from society all of the time. The point is, it resonated with him.

[barbtries]

311. can he sue for the right to debate?

if so, i think he should get a court order or force the bastards to show cause that is not bullshit.obviously he is a candidate

[and-justice-for-all]

312. Bull Fuckin' shit!!!

What a load bullocks!!

[southerncrone]

319. Let's not forget that DK was snubbed by the Harkin BBQ earlier in IA.

He was not invited to that either. That was another "big deal" IA event. It appears there's "bad blood" against DK in IA, so maybe he figures he shouldn't spend his limited resources on that state, albeit the first primary. Just sayin'...... :shrug:

[LWolf]

330. I sure hope the Democratic Party supports democratic

debates and elections. Should the party, and the other candidates, not step forward,

I sure as hell hope they won't be surprised or disappointed when the voters they disenfranchise by excluding DK don't cast a vote for the eventual nominee in '08.

What goes around comes around.

[Blashyrkh]

334. What are the chances of DK doing something public at the same time?

Broadcast a townhall session on Youtube or something, at the same time the debate is happening. He should give people the opportunity to choose him; give them the opportunity to listen.

[Captain Angry]

335. How many offices does Bush operate in Iowa since he became President?

OH, so you only have to bribe the state during the run up, but afterward you don't ever have to go back. Got it.

[bamacrat]

336. Shouldn't this be illegal?

How much more obvious can it be that the "powers that be" have already decided what our future will hold. I have a feeling it has something to do with more Bouche.

[Solar_Power]

349. It should be illegal

[Tarc]

411. Ridiculous

Every election cycle, the single-digit candidates start to complain about their lack of exposure. This is nothing new, and nothing unnatural.

[Gman]

338. Damn... I got here long after this was originally posted

all I get to have is some stale :popcorn:. Must be a great show. I gotta catch up.

[Libface]

339. It's obvious to me

that the reason given for DK's exclusion is arbitrary since they allowed Alan Keyes at the R debate even though he does not have any office, whether home or other, in Iowa, so I am confused as to why every democrat isn't upset over this decision considering how much power this one newspaper has over the election process in this case.

It is also obvious to me that the way the primary system is set up is not working very well. I wonder why we can't get some kind of lottery in place so that it's a different first state every general election. Maybe there are good reasons I haven't thought of but I think Iowa has too much power over our primaries and general election, and I think that where power stagnates corruption seems to take root.

First post under any name, been a lurker.

[MilesColtrane]

375. The Democratic debate and the Republican debate are sponsored by two different entities.

They may have different criteria for what actually constitutes an official state campaign office.

Democratic debate=Des Moines Register

Republican debate=NPR and Iowa Public Radio

[Libface]

376. Okay,

thanks for clearing that up for me.

[FREEWILL56]

449. Welcome to DU and your suggestion would be a fair one in my view.

It may be a good idea to draw straws so to speak for states to have their primaries. It may need some aspects addressed to fly, but in no way should a few states determine who is or is not the choice of all Democrats. Of course taking this further you know the NPR would be fairer and allow all to debate, but let corporations or businesses decide who debates in OUR Democratic debates is not wise and has proven to be unfair and unjust, not to mention undemocratic. Something's definitely starting to smell if you know what I mean.

[Libface]

454. Thanks

for the welcome :hi:

I guess if some people don't sit down and shut up the corporate interests aren't going to let them participate in democracy anymore, eh? :silly:

[Divine Discontent]

340. I cannot make an excuse for them

to not include DK. Shame on them. It's not like he's given more than 5 minutes typically at a debate anyhow...

[sunsettommy]

341. Kucinich booted from Iowa debate

"The Des Moines Register informed the campaign that Kucinich is not invited because the newspaper determined “that a person working out of his home did not meet our criteria for a campaign office and full-time paid staff in Iowa,” the campaign said."

This makes no sense to me at all.

A newspaper decides whether Dennis can debate or not?

It is obvious to people that he is a presidential candidate.He has already been in presidential debates this year.

That is enough for me to allow him in the Iowa debate.

It is a dumb decision on the part of a newspaper.

[KamaAina]

344. You know what? This just may drive me back to Dennis

I'd been moving toward (most likely) Edwards since the Ron Paul fiasco. But if the Powers That Be are this afraid of Dennis -- it might be time to come back. Take that, Des Moines Register!

[KamaAina]

345. This is what happens when you let the media run the debates

rather than a neutral third party, say, the League of Women Voters.

First an entire Dem debate was canceled because the striking writers were picketing the CBS studio where it was to be held. And now this. Pathetic.

[upi402]

356. Yep, the CORPORATE media ousting the only non-corporatist

Not surprised - and I'm sure the corporate oriented Dems will just add more hairspray instead of boycotting it.

[goforit]

355. We need to kick IOWA out of the friiggin country!!!!!!

[Major Hogwash]

357. No office in Iowa?!? Jesus, how stupid can he be? This is his 2nd go-around for Prez.

What a fuckin' idiot!

[Infinite Hope]

360. Seems reasonable.

If he isn't serious enough to open even a single office in the state (which is affordable even on a Kucinich campaign budget) then he isn't serious enough to be in the debate. While I have always enjoyed his presence in the debates because he brings a unique perspective, the rationale for excluding him isn't unreasonable.

[Libface]

364. How is it reasonable..

to include Alan Keyes but not Dennis?

If the Register had given a different reason or didn't invite Alan, maybe I could agree with you, but barring that it just looks like discrimination towards the democrats to me and I don't understand why any democrat would defend it, regardless of how they feel about Dennis or the way he's running his campaign.

[pstans]

362. Why should the only events Kucinich attends in the states be debates?

He only comes to Iowa to attend the debates and forums. I am sorry, but it is the Iowa caucuses and Kucinich isn't putting forth the the effort in Iowa. The debate is to help Iowans decide who to vote for and if you let just any old candidate come to the debates, it takes time away from the other candidates and takes away chances for Iowans to make educated choices on the candidates that are campaigning here.

I'd love for Kucinich to be campaigning here. I'd strongly consider voting for him, however I haven't gotten to see him.

As for Iowa's national implications. Even though the media wants to make the Iowa caucuses the decide all contest, we must remember that is not what it is. The Iowa caucuses are for Iowans to decide who they want to be the nominee, not for Iowans to decide who the country wants to be the nominee.

[Debi]

412. Only nationally televised debates and forums

He failed to attend a local debate here (without letting anyone know he wasnt' coming) and claims not to have enough money ($10.00) to attend county fund raisers.

If C-SPAN is there so is DK, otherwise Iowa doesn't exist to him.

[KamaAina]

435. Dennis has been to Iowa 15 times

per post #213 above.

Of course, to Iowans, that's "only" 15 times. :-)

[Voltaire99]

368. Campaigns are about spending money, Dennis.

Spend money, and newspapers write about you. Talk shows talk about you.

Fail to spend money, and you're just an amusement, a sideshow.

You with your "ideas," your "reforms." Ha!

American democracy. Do it for the money.

[Diamond Dave]

373. Criminal. Just criminal, and lame as it can get.

They laugh, they fight, then they join.........

[Seabiscuit]

378. DK could have opened an office in Des Moines but chose not to. He's known for

quite some time what the consequences would be.

He apparently gave up long ago on any idea of doing well in Iowa, so he didn't bother to play by their rules.

It's a bit late and even more absurd for his campaign people to be complaining of the consequences at this point in time.

As much as I love DK, this is not an issue any of us should be concerned about.

[JNelson6563]

389. Exactly. This isn't a new rule.

The outrage over this is cracking me up. Seems Dennis is "special" in that the rules don't apply to him. Gives new meaning to the term "special needs".

Oy.

Julie

[Libface]

393. Please realize..

that even if you think his campaign is stupid, when you ridicule him, you ridicule me (and others, even if not the majority of what is supposed to be our party). If I am unwanted in the party, I will find somewhere else to go.

[JNelson6563]

397. I see

so the Democratic party either makes exceptions for Dennis or we lose your vote? Interesting. Boy, now there's a dedicated Democrat! Not.

This is the second such instance that I am aware of from this campaign. Ignore the rules in Iowa and scream bloody murder when the rules are enforced. Then there's Michigan....yep, we've jumped the shark and moved our date up against the rules. Most candidates fulfilled their pledge to withdraw from any state doing so. Dennis supposedly tried but failed to get the notarized paperwork in on time. He remains on Michigan's ballot. Should they have just made an exception for Dennis cause he's so special and pulled him from the ballot anyway?

No.

There are two possibilities here, you tell me which one is applicable.....either Kucinich's campaign is extraordinarily inept and cannot manage to get an office established in Iowa, not to mention incapable of getting a document in on time in MI....or...the rules don't apply to them (which smacks of arrogance).

Well, which is it?

Julie

[Libface]

399. My problem..

is with your use of the word "special" as in another way to marginalize and ignore us crazy moonbats. Dennis didn't follow the rules for whatever reason and the remarks about that are fair. The remarks about how he is so out there or pie in the sky or unrealistic or whatever else make me feel unwanted. Do with that information what you will.


Edited to add: Dennis didn't follow the UNWRITTEN rules...

Edited again to add: I work from a home office and I manage but maybe I'm not serious enough in my job for most people?

[JNelson6563]

402. I work from home too

I am managing a US house race. My home is within the Congressional district that my campaign is in. We will have satellite offices throughout the district but all will be WITHIN the district. You see?

And the rules were not unwritten.

If I were running a state House race for my district I sure as heck wouldn't be running it from some far away county, I'd be right in the heart of the district where the voters were.

It's really quite simple. Not sure why it is beyond the grasp of some.

Julie

[Libface]

405. It is beyond my grasp..

because I do not have the political savvy or knowledge that you do. I don't understand why that makes me contemptable, nor why it justifies your sneer. Like I said, if I am unwanted in the party...well I must just not be a real dem I guess.

[FREEWILL56]

451. The trouble with your arguement is that the Des Moines Register

IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY and he met the requirements they set forth and changed them up on him. There is the 3rd possibility of him being unfairly railroaded and it's being endorsed by people like you because he's not your candidate. You smack of arrogance as the rules were met. He has been getting a raw deal when it comes to debates and you are endorsing the preselection or in this case the predisposition of a Democratic candidate for president. What does everybody fear from him if he's so inconsequential or inept as many here are saying?

[johncoby2]

384. Why am i not surprised?

[MalloyLiberal]

394. Good, we need serious candidates,

and I'm sick of him using all his time to attack Edwards instead of promoting himself.

[bitchkitty]

395. Pure crap. A home office is an office.

I should know - I'm in my home office NOW, on break from WORKING. Many, many people work from their homes.

[pleah]

396. This is about the dumbest reason I have heard, yet.

They really must not want people to hear this man speak about impeachment.

[gtar100]

420. This whole one-state-at-a-time is a Democratic SHAM

If this were a legitimate democracy, we wouldn't be doing primaries one state at a time. All at once so we all can vote for the candidate we want. It's been designed for maximum manipulation. I'm so sick of this crap. Smiling faces covering greed and corruption that just stinks. We send mostly our garbage to Washington DC because of this screwed up process.

So, to the fine folks at The Des Moines Register - fuck you for screwing us over for your own selfish interests. You'll be burning in the sun the same as all of us, so enjoy it while you can. Maybe next time round your sorry asses won't be so smug. I can only hope.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

428. Yes it should be all at once and we should use instant runoff voting in ALL elections...

...and they should all be on physical paper ballots that can be readily recounted. The people have been completely cut out of the process. That's why corporate owned shills for preserving the crooked status quo such as the Des Moines Register (owned by Gannett Company, Inc) can just tell people to fuck off -- they know the people have no reasonable avenue of redress.

"Democratic SHAM" certainly describe it accurately, it's America's Great Electoral Puppet Show -- all staged for easy behind the scenes manipulation, which is exactly how we end up with people like Chimpy in the White House.

[stillcool]

421. I think Alan Keyes should...

be invited to replace Dennis. That way the Des Moines Register and the people of Iowa can show with conviction and integrity their criteria for who does and who does not deserve to be in their debates.

[Highway61]

422. What's wrong with ALL the other candidates

joining together and DEMAND he be included?? Isn't that what Democracy is all about??? But no...."it's all about me"....and if it is "all about them", then they don't give a rat's ass about "us" do they? Case in point. Just more of the same.

[bleedinglib]

423. Dennis Kucinich and alan keyes????

I reluctantly watched about one minute of the repug debate yesterday and
I was a little amazed to see Alan Keyes on stage with the rest of the stooges?????
What the hell is going on????
Is he just a token (excuse the phrase) to make the grand ole party seem more palatable????
Is it the des moines register that makes these decisions?? if so, THEY SUCK.
BLIB:wtf:

[Krashkopf]

429. Alan Keyes!?

Do they really expect us to believe that Alan Keyes has an actual, active, campaign office in Iowa?!

Iowa insists on maintaining its "first in the nation" status, thus giving it a disproportionate influence on the nominees of the National parties.

If they are going to play that larger-than-they-deserve role, they have obligations to the REST OF US - including the obligation to allow candidates like Kucinich to participate.

If they don't - the entire caucus/primary system should be revamped to take away their disproportionate influence.

[Peace Patriot]

430. Here's my letter to the editor of the Des Moines Register...

Dear Editor,

Your newspaper’s decision to exclude Dennis Kucinich from the debate that you have organized for Democratic presidential candidates is unfair and prejudicial. I have always admired Iowa and Iowans for your sense of fair play, ever since I attended the University of Iowa, and got to know your state and its wonderful people. I am frankly shocked by this decision,--a very bad decision on your part that contributes to the notion, widespread among our citizens, that the corporate-controlled news media does not adequately reflect the views of many Americans, and wants to suppress and limit debate.

The “rule” that you have based this decision on—a “rule” solely of your invention--that Kucinich’s campaign office in Iowa is a home office, and not a rented office, is an insult to the poor, to home workers, to home business owners and to all grass roots volunteers everywhere. Is political debate to be limited to those with money? That is a message unworthy of the “Fourth Estate,” upon whom Thomas Jefferson placed such high hopes for creating a free marketplace of ideas.

Based on your own arbitrary rule, how is it that you include Alan Keyes in the Republican debate(*), and exclude Kucinich from the Democratic debate?

Your decision in the case of Kucinich could be interpreted as an effort to unfairly influence the Iowa presidential caucuses, and to exclude issues from the Democratic debate, and the general national debate, that you do not want brought up or emphasized, such as impeachment, rampant violation of the Constitution, war profiteering and too much power in the hands of corporations.

The grass roots of the Democratic Party wants these issues debated. They may tell pollsters that they support Edwards or Obama, because they believe that these candidates have a better chance, but if you did a name-blank poll on the ISSUES of concern to most Democrats, based on the candidates’ positions (Candidate A, Candidate B, etc.), I am quite certain that you would find much more support for Kucinich than is evident in polls that measure popularity or name-recognition.

And, truly, your decision not to include Kucinich smells of bad faith—an arbitrary rule used against a candidate whose views you don’t like. Your press release implying that Kucinich turned down your invitation—rather than the truth, that you didn’t issue him an invitation—adds to the smell.

This was a bad decision. I urge you to change it, in the interest of fairness. If you don’t, you will be guilty of an outrageous abuse of power.

XXXXXXX (name, address, etc.)

-----------------------------------------------

SOME OTHER THOUGHTS - AFTER READING THIS ENTIRE THREAD...

1. Some folks upthread seem to defend this wrongful Des Moines register decision on the basis of their judgment about the Kucinich's campaign in Iowa, which is really an arbitrary matter. Should such an important public decision, by the Des Moines Register, be made on this arbitrary basis? --that is, on the basis of judging, say 15 vs. 50 campaign visits to the state, or home office vs. commercial space as a campaign office? He met all the published criteria, and they excluded him with an arbitrary, unpublished rule. ('No, it can't be a home office.') Those who are making this argument--defending the Des Moines Register--seem to want to PUNISH Kucinich for what, in THEIR opinion, is his "neglect" of their state. Should that be the criterion for EXCLUSION--a sort of hurt feeling--with regard to an underfunded, national campaign that is targeting corporations and the rich on behalf of "the little guy"--a national campaign and candidate that are spread very thin, that have to rely on small donations and volunteers, and that are often unfairly treated by the corporate news monopolies?

This argument lacks perspective. It is defensive rather than principled. Who is to say what those 15 visits of Kucinich to Iowa cost him, in energy and percentage of his resources--as compared, say, to Hillary's multi-million dollar wad? And why should Kucinich, who DID meet the criteria, BE EXCLUDED FROM THE DEBATE, because other candidates with few resources spent more time in Iowa? Being included in the debate, and supporting his right to be in this debate, is a very different thing from liking him, supporting him, feeling he attends to your state's concerns, etc. It's a different issue. So maybe you won't vote for him because he only visited your state 15 times. Does that justify the Des Moines Register's decision?


2. The Des Moines Register LIED about this matter. Their press release implies that Kucinich turned down their invitation, when the truth is that they didn't issue him an invitation. That should be a red flag to us all.


3. The list posted upthread of the vast corporate news monopoly that the Des Moines Register is part of, very much undercuts the Des Moines Register's status as local paper, out to reflect the interests and views of local people. I don't believe that this was a local decision, and I don't believe that it serves local interests. I think it was CORPORATE decision, reflecting vast financial and global corporate interests that HARM most Iowans.


4. This decision most certainly harms democracy, in way that is very typical of the corporate news monopolies--severely limiting the parameters of political debate. Kucinich provides an ADDITIONAL leftist voice on some important issues, and a unique leftist voice on other important issues that the other candidates do not address or address only minimally, such as the riggable voting machines, corporate news monopolies, Constitutional principles, impeachment, the illegality of the war on Iraq, and focusing foreign policy on peace. To exclude him is to skew the debate--and it is furthermore to exclude the opinion of the MAJORITY of Americans--and the vast majority of grass roots Democrats--from the last debate before this important presidential caucus. Read the issue polls! Kucinich WINS the issue polls--though he has not "connected" in the popularity contest. 70% of the American people oppose the war on Iraq and want it ended You want only people who supported the war debating the war? Do you want the only one didn't to be Obama, who dissembled about this matter at the Democratic Convention in 2004? Do you want the war swept under the carpet? That is very likely to happen, with Kucinich excluded.


5. What is so awful, in some peoples' view (in this thread), about having only small support this early in the campaign, a year before the general election? Is this a time to be EXCLUDING important, MAINSTREAM views? Grass roots campaigns have the great handicap of needing TIME. They don't get "Time," the magazine. They need time, the reality--for word of mouth, for underfunded, grass roots organizing. We should be ENCOURAGING grass roots efforts, not discouraging them. When you side with the Des Moines Register, you are flipping off the grass roots--and Democrats who support this decision are probably the same type of Democrats who will loudly complain if Democratic leftists defect to an independent or to the Green Party. You can expect more such defections--and more people not voting--if you do not strongly support a policy of inclusion.




-----------

(*) NOTE ON THE LETTER: There is a mistake in this letter. Apparently, the Republican debate was separately sponsored--by NPR and Iowa public TV. The Des Moines Register sponsored the Democratic debate. So the hypocrisy of including Keyes in the Republican debate, and excluding Kucinich from the Democratic debate, is not so directly attributable to the Des Moines Register as my letter states--although the general impact on the public debate, just prior to the Iowa caucuses, is nevertheless the same. If NPR/Iowa public TV are going out of their way to be fair and inclusive, the Des Moines Register should do the same. Why SHOULDN'T we be able to expect fair and responsible decisions from a newspaper? If they are going to provide a public service, then they need to be fair.

[Krashkopf]

431. Are you sure?

Firstly, your letter is excellent! The only additional point I would make is that the Iowa caucuses (and the New Hampshire primaries) are accorded special status under the law, giving those two states a disproportionate influence over the nomination process. The Iowa caucuses and the N.H. primaries have national implications . . . thus, in my opinion, those states have an obligation to the rest of the nation to be fair and inclusive (especially to a candidate like Kucinich who, so obviously, speaks for the progressive wing of the Democratic party).

Secondly, you said:

(*) NOTE ON THE LETTER: There is a mistake in this letter. Apparently, the Republican debate was separately sponsored--by NPR and Iowa public TV. The Des Moines Register sponsored the Democratic debate. So the hypocrisy of including Keyes in the Republican debate, and excluding Kucinich from the Democratic debate, is not so directly attributable to the Des Moines Register as my letter states--although the general impact on the public debate, just prior to the Iowa caucuses, is nevertheless the same. If NPR/Iowa public TV are going out of their way to be fair and inclusive, the Des Moines Register should do the same. Why SHOULDN'T we be able to expect fair and responsible decisions from a newspaper? If they are going to provide a public service, then they need to be fair.

Are you sure? After all, I'm pretty sure that was Des Moines Register Editor Carolyn Washburn moderating the GOP "debate" last night.

Krashkopf
(An EDWARDS supporter!)

[FREEWILL56]

452. Excellent letter and post.

:kick:

[natrat]

433. if scumbags obama and clinton had any decency they would ardently object

the democratic party is undeniably bullshit at this point--yea i know if you dont like it get out of here

[conspirator]

436. "Democracy" where elections are won by the highest bidder. Thats why

I dont vote.

[cosmicdot]

437. here's an address for his national headquaters

http://www.dennis4president.com/home/

it's virtually in all states



http://www.dennis4president.com/go/state-by-state/


nice interview on this page

Matt Hammill Interviews Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich
http://www.wqad.com/Global/category.asp?C=112976&nav=menu132_3_10

[cosmicdot]

438. 'headquarters'

too late to edit the typo

[gatlingforme]

450. If we don't have rules that we must abide by, than we don't

have any organization.
Why didn't his organization figure that out??? it is not that hard to do
Get all the facts to qualify for a debate is pretty rudimentary when you running for President of US?? DUH

[FREEWILL56]

453. Spare me more rhetoric to get him ousted as he met their requirements.

[MadHound]

456. God forbid that we have the conscience of the party up there on the stage

Can't have the one candidate who has been right all along, all down the line showing up those corporate controlled candidates. Geez, people might actually vote for him or something:eyes:

Once again, the media is controlling the message, and thus controlling our political process.

[Megahurtz]

461. That's Bad.

Really bad.