CNN Breaking: 5 servicemembers killed in Iraq

[Dookus]

5 US Servicemembers killed by roadside bomb in Iraq

No link yet... on CNN homepage.

[LibertyorDeath]

1. When is this insanity going to end. How many will it take?

[grasswire]

2. over 500

Utterly, utterly sad. Young lives, mourning mothers. What a world.

[Tommy]

44. geez

wonder how many americans have seen a gi with his brains blown out? theyre white like thick egg whitesozzing out of there blown away head . the first time is a shock. an ohio republican thinking maybe mom and dad are wrong. thinking back. i wish i didn t have to to see my american brothers to wake up.

[Newsjock]

3. The magic 500 comes ... on a Saturday morning

Today's death count, even by the conservative AP count, was 495. Five more makes it 500.

Far too late to get in any Saturday paper, too old to get big play in any Sunday paper.

Perfect news management, courtesy your U.S. military.

All hail the homeland.

[necso]

17. Not to differ, but,

All of the political stuff is instigated by a few political generals and their bootlickers at the top of the military command structure.

Many of the rank and file, along with officers to the field command level are very unhappy with what is going on. They feel misused by the government, unable to speak out without risking being punished and generally abandoned.

Few of them want to be there and they "soldier on" because of a sense of duty and loyalty. Please don't think that they look to suppress our rights and freedoms. Indeed, they (would like to) believe that they are protecting these rights and freedoms.

We should curse and spit on those people who got us into this mess but should try to respect the poor souls (many literally poor) who have to do all the dirty work.

I hope that you will not take this as criticism. But some day we may need these same soldiers to really protect democracy. Moreover, the anti-war movement of the 60's and 70's lost much credibility by targeting those being taken advantage of along with those taking the advantage. The echoes of this can still be felt in the generally conservative republican orientation of military voters. We have a unique opportunity to turn this around.

Again, I hope that you will not take this as criticism.

[Newsjock]

18. No criticism taken

No question about 99.99% of the soldiers over there. (Yes, there are some bad apples, but that's true in any population.)

My criticism rests with the top commanders, many of whom have demonstrably practiced news management many times during this conflict. (One of the most notable incidents was the form letters sent to U.S. newspapers, suggesting everything in Iraq was wonderful.)

It's the way in which the news about this conflict is stage-managed, down to every last detail and the timing thereof, that sucker-punches me right in the gut.

[necso]

22. Oh, too true.

That military commanders should treat their subordinates with such disregard, only to improve their own prospects is way beyond despicable. That the civilian command should do so is one thing; these people have nothing but contempt for those beneath their "class". But for the military leaders that the troops look up to for support and leadership to do the same is nothing short of the betrayal of brothers.

[izzie]

30. Service has to be a top down group.

The people are to have the finally say in the running, but the service is a top down run group.The founders wanted the army controlled by the voters(congress) but they also wanted a citizen army. I think we may have made an error to stop this type thing as that made all think about going to war more.I would fight for a draft if I had to do it over. With out letting the 'rich' off from serving.

[Leilani]

19. I Agree with you

The military (the guys who actually go & fight) was against this thing from the start.

This war is the creation of PNAC, & they have been wanting this war since Bush I decided not to go to Baghdad.

The criminals are Perle, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Libby, Feith, Adleman, Gaffney, etc.

And the only one who was even in the military was Rumsfeld.

[panzerfaust]

36. Yes & No

...Many of the rank and file, along with officers to the field command level are very unhappy with what is going on. They feel misused by the government, unable to speak out without risking being punished and generally abandoned.

As far as the officers are concerned, being "generally abandoned" is not the problem - UCMJ Article 88 is: "Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

What constitutes "contemptuous words" is left to your CO and the Court to decide.

...Few of them want to be there and they "soldier on" because of a sense of duty and loyalty. Please don't think that they look to suppress our rights and freedoms. Indeed, they (would like to) believe that they are protecting these rights and freedoms.

This raises a couple of myths that I would like to address here; having had 12 years of military service I do feel that I can make these comments.

First, it is true that soldiers "soldier on" because of a sense of "duty and loyalty", But this is not duty and loyalty to what most civilians think. When dipped in the shit-bucket of combat the only thing that counts is your buddies – your duty and loyalty goes to them, not to King and Country. You stay and fight for your buddies, you will not let them down. That's why most wounded soldiers want to go back – to not let their buddies down. They saved your ass, you want to save theirs.

Second, though I just referred to the "shit-bucket of combat", which it is, and which most come to see it as - at one and the same time, especially initially, there is nothing as exhilarating as combat. You are never more alive than when killing your enemy.

Sorry dudes/dudettes, but it is true – when you are an 18 year old male with an automatic weapon there is nothing better than to use it to waste some "bad guys" (as our president calls them). Those thousands of hours you spend playing "war" as a kid attest to the truth of this.

If you truly want an appreciation of how a frontline soldier experiences war, and not the complete bullshit of most books and movies, then read "Goodbye Darkness" by William Manchester.

This leads to my third point – true, most people below E5 (sergeant) or 03 (captain) likely do believe that they are in Iraq (and Afghanistan) to liberate the indigs from tyranny, to fight for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way". Sadly, no matter what they believe, that is not why they are there.

Even more sadly, though they may not "look" to do so, they will ultimately be the ones used to "suppress our rights and freedoms." Again, it will be a question of duty – not a choice of conscience – for they will have been indoctrinated with the belief that they only way to save our democracy is to destroy it. "Hitler's Army" by Bartov, is both a history of the past, and a prediction for our future.

...the anti-war movement of the 60's and 70's lost much credibility by targeting those being taken advantage of along with those taking the advantage. The echoes of this can still be felt in the generally conservative republican orientation of military voters. We have a unique opportunity to turn this around.

Having been there - as one of "those being taken advantage of", and, later, as part of the Peace Movement – I cannot agree that credibility was lost: the movement became ever more broad, ever more credible until the war, ignominiously, ended. Certainly, the Peace Movement is not the reason why most in the military are conservative.

As in most countries, and unfailingly in the US, the military has always been conservative. I see no "unique opportunity to turn this around", but I do see the opportunity to truly "support the troops" by bringing them home.

There was never a good war or a bad peace.
Ben Franklin

[Jackpine Radical]

37. You tellit like it is (was).

Signed
Ex-Sp4 Jackpine
2/5 Cav
1st Cav Division
RVN July 19, 1967-July 18, 1968

[panzerfaust]

38. ... and ever shall be

It is human nature. It is why we have survived - but it may be our destruction as well.

[Dead_Parrot]

39. Oh, I don't know...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040117/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

edit - ignore me, just Yahoo playing with my head...

[VolcanoJen]

4. Horrific.

When are they going to admit how wrong they were? When will they begin to reverse the course???

Thanks for the heads-up on this sad news, Dookus.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. They never will admit they're wrong.

That's why we have to get them out, otherwise there is going to be no end to this, probably still more wars, and a draft.:-(

[Occulus]

16. they remind me of my mom n/t

[Polemonium]

32. Tragically your right

I listened to an interview with Powell today, hoping that the rumor that he wouldn't be returning to work for the * administration for another four years was based on something meaningful. Imagine how disappointed I was with his interview... Democracy begins with tyranny don't you know, and WMD well they are probably there, or they could have been there, and Iraq could have supported terrorism etc. etc.

[shance]

5. Sadly, its breaking at 1:00 am Pacific time and 4:00 am Eastern

Is that coincidental or convenient?

[jpgray]

9. Dollars to donuts the incident occurred some hours earlier. (nt)

[maggrwaggr]

40. I'll bet it happend DAYS earlier. Look at this story:

http://electroniciraq.net/news/1305.shtml

"we came across a man who told us Iraqi witnesses reported a US Humvee Patrol hit by a large roadside bomb, killing 5 soldiers, and injuring 2 others yesterday.

We continued down the road, and soon came upon a huge crater, one meter deep, and 20 meters away off the other side of the road were skidding tire marks and a palm tree partly burned. Off the side of the road near this crash were small pieces of Humvee, a bloody bandage, a piece of green cloth with blood on it, and some bullet casings. Down in the dirt where the Humvee struck the palm tree sat a US grenade, splattered with blood.

Over near the crater was a partially used I.V. bag and a piece of paper with instructions on how to perform CPR, written in English of course.

Three Iraqi boys at the scene tell us that at 11:45am yesterday, the 2 Humvee Patrol was hit by the bomb. One Humvee was tossed off the other side of the road and burned, and the other was partially destroyed. They too, reported 5 US deaths, and 2 wounded.

One of the journalists in our group called CPIC from the scene, and they confirmed that a US patrol was hit by an IED yesterday here, but only 2 dead and 3 wounded.

More men arrived at the scene and agreed with the 5 dead, 2 wounded casualty count, and told us they were working in the nearby fields and saw the aftermath of the strike. They told us more soldiers arrived shortly after the attack and promptly detained 15 men from nearby homes."

(MORE)

[bluestateguy]

7. Link

I hope all you war cheerleaders are proud of yourselves!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/17/sprj.nirq.bomb/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Five U.S. service members were killed Saturday morning when a powerful roadside bomb detonated north of Baghdad, splitting open the gun turret of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle they were traveling in, according to sources in the U.S. 4th Infantry Division.

The blast happened west of Taji, which is about 19 miles (30 km) north of Baghdad.

[Syrinx]

8. and this was the top story

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/01/16/jackson.arraignment/index.html

Unbelievable.

[bluestateguy]

12. But, but what about Laci Peterson?

There really is a market out there for a civic journalism station: they run only the stories the people want to hear!

[Syrinx]

15. The Star, I think.

It's a supermarket tabloid. It has "Celebrity Trials" on the cover. Kobe Bryant, Martha Stewart, Robert Blake, Michael Jackson, Scott Petersen, whoa!

When did Scott Petersen become a celebrity?

[underpants]

35. It was the "Globe" I saw it this week Peterson is now a celebrity

apparently.

I had a thread in GD about it earlier this week.

ridiculous.

[Skip Intro]

10. "Servicemembers" - is that a newly used term?

edited to replace my subject line "n/t" with the comment that should never go un-made - bush and the gang are f**king lying murderers. And the neutered press are just as vile.

Another five brave Americans dead for the moron's lies.

Man, forget that - we're goin' to Mars.

:puke:

[shance]

11. Another good point by NuDUER***

Never heard it before either****

[silverchair]

13. very sad

as long as american troops are there more will be killed or injured.

[jpgray]

14. That's a pretty powerful bomb to toast a Bradley

Yikes.

[underpants]

33. 25 TON vehicle (NBC says turret split open) I rode in one for 3 years

and let me tell that ain't no nice ride.



http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/www/256.htm

CHARACTERISTICS
Length: 20.5 feet
Width: 10.5 feet
Height: 9.7 feet
Weight: 24.8 tons (M2) 24.7 tons (M3)
Speed: 41 miles per hour
Range: 300 miles
Crew: 3
Passengers: 6 (M2) 2 (M3)
ARMAMENT
Primary: 25-mm. cannon
Secondary: 7.62-mm. machine gun
TOW missiles (two launch tubes)

[NickB79]

20. But, but

We caught Saddam?!?! Attacks down 22%?!?! This can't be happening! /sarcasm off/

[Cooley Hurd]

21. Jesus... Five? In a Bradley??

You're responsible, you son-of-a-bitch!

Sorry, but my ire is peaking after a night of fighting off freeper-apologists in GD. I fucking hate Bush and I hate his supporters...

[Judi Lynn]

23. Here's an updated version which just appeared

Five US soldiers 'killed in bomb attack'

Five US soldiers have been killed when a roadside bomb detonated north of Baghdad.

The explosion split open the gun turret of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle they were travelling in, about 20 miles north of the capital, according to CNN, citing sources in the US 4th Infantry Division.

In Baghdad, the US military command confirmed that an incident had occurred in the Taji area north of Baghdad but it had no details.

Efforts to contact the 4th Infantry Division, which is responsible for the area, were unsuccessful.

The vehicle flipped over and caught fire, and the gunner and commander escaped with injuries, the sources said, according to CNN. The four people in the back and the driver were killed, the report said.
(snip/...)

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_856607.html?menu=

[NV1962]

25. Yup

This is the stuff holding the bloc together that'll kick the simian into unemployment.

In the end, I don't care if Dean, Clark, Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, Sharpton, or Kucinich gets to do it: monkey, game over and out.

[Paragon]

24. 23 posts on this here, 2 on Freek Republik

They're usually ahead of the news curve -- funny how they don't touch stuff like this...

[Paragon]

26. More freeper madness:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1059768/posts

3. And of course, Reuters/CNN are trumpeting the "since POTUS declared end to ..." bleating.

5. Howie Dean is probably jumping for joy right about now.

7. Yes , Maybe , I think he is very joy !!! But we very sad , because we lose some brave soldier . Bless U.S. soldier .

8. Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez ordered a probe "into reported incidents of detainee abuse at a coalition forces detention facility."

BULL****!

BRING BACK LT COL WEST!!!!! Make them BAST#### TALK!!

[Paragon]

27. Now the AP says it was THREE, not five

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20040117/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_595

[Judi Lynn]

28. Thanks for the new information.

Also in the article:

"The coalition is believed to be holding about 12,800 detainees for various offenses, including attacks on U.S. and allied troops."

Who would have guessed there would be this many? Unbelievable.

[Flagg]

29. 3 US soldiers and 2 Iraki civil defense troopers

BRING 'EM ON !!!!! cried the AWOL puppet

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040117/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=514&ncid=514

[dbt]

31. Thank you, Flagg!

I was just about to point out bu$h's deathless prose, but you beat me to it. Well done! All that's left to say is:


IRAQ NAM.

:freak:
dbt

[snippy]

34. Bring 'Em On Bush gets his wish. Again.

[lostnfound]

42. A tough choice, the lion or the scarecrow..you made the right decision. nt

[snippy]

46. Its not my creation.

I first saw it posted by some other DU'er but I forget who.

I think Rumsfeld probably should be the Scarecrow and Cheney, of course, is the Tin Man.

[RedCloud]

41. But is "our" oil safe?

Remember the fallen when you gas up!

God bless our oil and our oilagarchy.

[Barrett808]

43. CNN top story: U.S. death toll tops 500 in Iraq

U.S. death toll tops 500 in Iraq
Blast north of Baghdad kills 3 American soldiers, 2 Iraqis
Saturday, January 17, 2004 Posted: 1:44 PM EST (1844 GMT)

TAJI, Iraq (CNN) -- The number of U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war passed 500 on Saturday when three American soldiers died in a roadside bombing north of Baghdad.

A patrol was sweeping a rural area for improvised explosive devices when a bomb detonated on a road west of Taji, about 19 miles (30 kilometers) north of the Iraqi capital, according to a statement from the 4th Infantry Division.

The explosion split open the gun turret of the patrol's Bradley Fighting Vehicle, knocked the 26-ton vehicle on its side and started a fire, military sources said.

In addition to the Americans, two members of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps were killed. A gunner and commander escaped with injuries, the sources said. The wounded soldiers were taken to a Baghdad hospital, according to the military.

On Friday, a U.S. soldier died from a "nonhostile" gunshot about 75 miles (120 kilometers) south of Baghdad, according to the U.S.-led coalition.

With the latest casualties, 501 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq, including 346 in hostile action. Most of those deaths have come since President Bush declared the end of major combat operations May 1.

(more)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/17/sprj.nirq.main/index.html

[Dr Fate]

45. When Bush LIED, Troops died. n/t

n/t

[Moderator]

47. LBN Thread Consolidation - Locking.

Although Dookus' thread was clearly the original LBN thread on this topic, the thread below contains many responses, as well as a later, more accurate headline (3 U.S. soldiers, 2 Iraqis killed).

We'll also add a link back to this thread in the consolidated thread below.

3 U.S. Soldiers, 2 Iraqis Killed in Bomb Attack War Death Toll Reaches 500

Thanks!

DU Moderator