Recession Diet Just One Way to Tighten Belt

[UpInArms]

Source: New York Times

Stung by rising gasoline and food prices, Americans are finding creative ways to cut costs on routine items like groceries and clothing, forcing retailers, restaurants and manufacturers to decode the tastes of a suddenly thrifty public.

<snip>

The price of household necessities has surged, with milk topping $4 a gallon in many stores and regular gasoline closing in on $3.60 a gallon nationwide.

Home prices are sliding, wages are stagnant, job losses are growing and the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index, a broad measure of stock performance, is down 6 percent in the last year. So consumers are going on a recession diet.

Burt Flickinger, a longtime retail consultant, said the last time he saw such significant changes in consumer buying patterns was the late 1970s, when runaway inflation prompted Americans to “switch from red meat to pork to poultry to pasta — then to peanut butter and jelly.”

“It hasn’t gotten to human food mixed with pet food yet,” he said, “but it is certainly headed in that direction.”

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/business/27spend.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all

[notesdev]

1. And given the "new" CPI

“It hasn’t gotten to human food mixed with pet food yet,” he said, “but it is certainly headed in that direction.”

In the new CPI, changing over to a diet of dog food because human food was too expensive is calculated as "no inflation", and would actually count as a drop in inflation, should the switch of diet end up being less expensive than the old diet at the old prices.

It's the old "substitution" trick. They just get to substitute what they want to give you for what they want to take away from you, then feed you numbers to tell you it's all perfectly normal.

[jwirr]

12. Plus has anyone looked at the price of pet food lately?! It isn't

affordable either.

[notesdev]

15. I switched my pet food too

The old pet food I was getting was real good stuff, but at $1.39 a can and rising the time came to find a more affordable way to feed the kitties. So I found 'standard' generic cat food at about $0.45 a can, and they don't seem to notice a difference - if anything, they eat more of the cheap stuff. I just hope they don't end up getting poisoned by some Chinese manufacturer.

[kestrel91316]

17. Hope you don't mind some unsolicited advice from a cat vet......

I advise my clients to avoid feeding canned cat food unless it's medically necessary for management of some problem. My own cats (except for one with a GI issue) ONLY get dry food - the only caveat here is that it needs to be high-quality dry food. Favorites are: Science Diet, Max Cat, Costco Kirkland (even though it's technically generic), and there are a couple of flavors of a couple of other brands that are ok.

The most important criteria for me in screening cat food for appropriateness are: 1) NO FISH as an ingredient (fish oil is fine) and 2) the food's nutrient bioavailability has been proven via feeding trials per the AAFCO protocols.

Canned food is problematic for a number of reasons: expensive way to get calories into your cat because it's mostly water; increased risk of vomiting/diarrhea; increased incidence of dental problems (you eat mush, you get "mush mouth"); increased long-term risk of development of hyperthyroidism; and most importantly, increased risk of development of oral squamous cell carcinoma.

It has become trendy in recent years for vets to start recommending lots of canned food in a cat's diet and I guess I am in disagreement for a number of reasons too lengthy to go into here. I know what my sick patients with diet-related disease have been eating, and I know what the healthy ones have been eating. Avoiding canned food has undeniable preventive health benefits for most cats (your mileage may vary, of course).

If you must feed canned cat food, use the above two criteria in screening so you get the LEAST offensive (lol) varieties. In addition to SOME of the Science Diet and Max Cat canned, I have found the Fancy Feast pate varieties in most of the chicken and turkey flavors to me fine. Remember: READ THE INGREDIENT LIST, and check that AAFCO statement for proof of feeding trials.

Disclaimer: I am a licensed veterinarian with 26 years in practice, 17 years just cats. I do not own stock in any pet food companies (I do not own stock, period). I do not, and never have received financial compensation (aka bribes)from any pet food companies for recommending their products. As a retailer, I can buy food wholesale for personal and hospital use (if you or anybody else has an issue with this, well, I can't help you). I sell (for profit) VERY small quantities of retail pet foods at my hospital. I have been accused by a few DUers of being an evil paid schill for various companies. That's their problem, not mine.

Oh, and YES, raw meat diets for pets are STILL a major public health hazard.

[notesdev]

20. pet food

I use Innova dry food, it's out all the time and they eat it at their leisure. One of them simply doesn't like dry food, and will rarely eat it; the other eats it more than wet food. The wet food I used to buy was Wellness, great stuff but simply way too expensive with the way prices are headed.

I do check the AAFCO statement, and the stuff I'm buying has it.

Thanks for the advice. I am curious, why do you say "no fish"? I give them tuna for cats once every few weeks as a treat, and occasionally a can of something that's fish-based, though usually I steer clear of those since one of my cats doesn't seem to like fish much.

Interesting that you mention raw meat diets... I was strongly encouraged to feed one of my cats raw food (encouraged by the breeder). I never did end up doing that, it seemed like way too much trouble and I didn't really see the benefit.

[kestrel91316]

21. IIRC, Wellness and Innova have the "other" AAFCO statement, the one

you DON'T want - "formulated to meet the AAFCO guidelines" or some such - it's NOT adequate (Nutrition 101 in vet school, lol). Double check that label. That said, it's a hell of a lot better than Trader Joe's or Kitty Queen or Old Mother Hubbard.

NO FISH!!! And most of all, NO TUNA!!! lol
But seriously, cats are direct descendants of Felis libyca, the desert wildcat of the Sahara and Negev and Saudi Arabia. There are no fish in the desert (God's own truth - I promise). Fish is an alien food item that is behind the vast majority of urinary and gastrointestinal and skin problems I see.

************Most importantly, tuna in particular is associated with oral squamous cell carcinoma, a deadly, untreatable cancer. Hideous, and quite fatal. NEVER FEED YOUR CATS TUNA.************ Oh, and recently they have found a lot of mercury in cats - from the fish??? Betcha my patients have a lot less mercury in them than most - I really crack the whip with my clients about the fish thing. We do not know how it might be harming them (the mercury), so better safe than sorry, right?

The healthiest protein source for cats is the one most suited to them because of their evolutionary biology: poultry. Chicken and turkey. So these are what you want as protein sources on the ingredients list. Beef and lamb are considerably less desirable. And don't be afraid of by-products. You WANT them to get all the miscellaneous parts and not just the muscle meat (you'd think we would figure this out from watching when humans eat way too much muscle meat - it's way too high in phosphorus and low in calcium).

I almost think Dan Ackroyd had it right with the Bass-o-matic, but we need a Turkey-o-matic, lol. Throw the whole damned thing in and puree it, but then remember to cook it, too.

[notesdev]

23. cans I have read:

"formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Cat Food Nutrient Profiles for all stages of a cat's life."

Is that the "good" statement? If not, what exactly should I be looking for?

[kestrel91316]

24. Nope. You want this one:

"Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiates that (name of food) provides complete and balanced nutrition for (whichever life stage i.e. growth, or maintenance of adult cats)."

Somebody did a study once that showed that you could formulate a diet that looked ok by the numbers per YOUR statement, but could in fact have among its ingredients old leather shoes, lol. The feeding tests demonstrate NUTRIENT BIOAVAILABILITY and are the gold standard. I would never ever feed my pets any food that had not been PROVEN nutritious in feeding trials. Especially where cats are involved. They are such weirdos and really persnickity when it comes to tiny, seemingly insignificant bits of nutrition.

I have seen lots of cats with urinary problems on Wellness and Innova, FWIW. I am assuming they have too much plant protein in proportion to animal protein and the cats get urine that's the wrong pH.

[notesdev]

25. Wait...

That's what my Innova bag says, to the letter, except it ends in "for all life stages".

[kestrel91316]

28. That's better, but not the best.

What is ideal for growth/nursing is most definitely not ideal for adult maintenance. Kittens need a lot more protein than mature cats, for whom excess protein can contribute to kidney wear-and-tear.

So do I have you confused enough, yet, lol?

Innova is not what we call a "life stage" food. But it's a good sight better than a lot of the crap out there.

I just got back from PetSmart (the perpetual "cat litter" run) and found two more foods that fit the bill (unless I read the labels too fast and missed something) - Fancy Feast Gourmet Gold chicken/turkey dry, and Nutro Natural Choice Complete Care adult dry. You have to watch out for the Nutro, lots of their stuff DOES have fish snuck in.

Remember to always read the ingredient list and don't just go by what flavor they label it.

Good luck.

[notesdev]

37. Thanks

I appreciate that you took the time here to answer my questions.

[DemReadingDU]

40. What about Iams pet products?

I have always fed my cat and dog dry Iams pet food. I don't recall any of them having food related problems.

[kestrel91316]

46. I have mixed feelings about Iams for cats. Their dry food ALL has fish

in it, which is a HUGE no-no for cats, and shame on them for doing this. They should know better.

That said, Iams otherwise does a good job with their cat food. So if I have a client that is feeding it and the cat is NOT having any GI or urinary or skin problems, I see no reason to change food. FWIW.

I will recommend that such a client at least be feeding the orange bag (not fish-flavored) as opposed to the blue-green bag (seafood flavored). No sense ASKING for trouble.

[DemReadingDU]

55. Thanks for the info

I had always fed the orange bag, then switched for awhile to the blue bag as the cat is totally indoors and sleeps most of the time, except for eating. :)

A few months ago I switched to the red bag for older cats as she is about 10 years old. I'm feeding my dog from the green bag.

Throughout the years, with all our pets, I've always fed Iams. I've never had any complaints.

Last wear with the scandal in the pet foods, I don't recall that Iams had any products recalled. I live near the company headquarters, and Iams has always seemed to take extra care to ensure their pet food products are safe and wholesome.

[gristy]

43. Thanks for the info, kestrel. Misty thanks you too!!!!

:)

[NickB79]

26. Why are raw meat diets bad?

I'm not arguing, just curious, because it would seem that feeding them raw meat would replicate the food they'd eat in the wild. That said, my cats get nothing but dry food anyway. Is it due to the possibility of tapeworms, disease, etc? Thanks for the all the info, though, it was very educational :)

[kestrel91316]

30. Cats out in the wild live an average of two years on their

raw mouse and raw bird diet, and one of the reasons for the greatly diminished life span is probably the risk of infectious disease and parasites.

Raw meat diets are a serious public health threat. Not only can your dog or cat get Salmonella or Campylobacter or Shiga-toxic E. coli or tapeworms or Toxoplasmosis from raw meats/poultry, but they can pass them on to humans who can then get very sick and possibly die. And yes, this is all very well documented scientific fact, much to the chagrin of raw food proponents, who maintain that Salmonella is not actually an animal pathogen (ROFLMAO) and other such twaddle.

So, in a nutshell, DON'T feed your pets raw meat. And best, in the case of cats at least, to not even try formulating a homemade cooked diet for them. Leave it to respected professionals (and I don't mean some fly-by-night pet food maker who has no clue what animal's nutritional needs are).

[NickB79]

58. I recall growing up that our farm cats did have short lifespans

Living around the barns, eating mice and birds. The oldest one I can remember only lived to 7 or 8? Lots of kittens lost young, lots of diseases wiping them all out so that we had to ask the neighbors for a few of their extra cats to restart the population.

It makes me cringe thinking about how we neglected those poor cats, but the way my dad was raised made him view them as nothing more than tools to control the vermin population. If someone tried to do that to my house cats now, I think I'd beat the hell out of them!

Thanks for all the info, it was really educational.

[Zhade]

31. Thank you for your advice - it is appreciated!

I will pass it on to my friends.

[Paula Sims]

32. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

We're having problems with one of our cats and this will come in very handy. MUCH APPRECIATED!!

Paula

[Patchuli]

42. I have a kitty girl with a sensitive stomach

and will get the runs if she doesn't eat the clean pricey brands of wet food. I got her when she was 15 or so months and she had had malnutrition when she was in an outside litter of kittens. She has been medicated for the diarrhea but she just has runny poo. She and my other tuxedo eat Fancy Feast and sometimes Organix type brands with Royal Canin Sensitive Stomach kibble. It has nearly cured her loose stools. I think excellent kibble is the most important food. Thank you for the knowledge...I appreciate it!

The kitty in my picture is our Storm. WE sadly lost him last Thanksgiving. He was 14 and we believe had bowel cancer.

[kestrel91316]

47. FYI: some of these outdoor stray kitties with "incurable"

diarrhea have obscure parasites like Cryptosporidium and Tritrichomonas. We don't have good treatments for those two (yet) but supposed they eventually self-clear after a couple-three years IIRC.

Some of them have Giardia, so I ALWAYS treat chronic diarrhea kitties for it, even if we haven't confirmed it on fecal testing. I use fenbendazole for a week and am always amazed how many mysterious diarrhea cases it resolves, lol.

[Patchuli]

51. Thank you so much for that!

Rosie's been tested, re-tested and re-re-tested but the tests always came up negative. She took metrodiazole for a time but it didn't seem to do it. If I'm strict about the Fancy Feast, limiting fish and keeping them on the sensitive stomach kibble, she almost gets a normal one. I'm going to ask my vet about trying the fenbendazole. I really appreciate it!!!

[kestrel91316]

49. BTW, that's too bad about your older kitty. It's always hard to lose them.

[Patchuli]

52. Thank you fro that

It was sad but he was 14 and awfully sick. He was on prednisone and prescription food but we didn't want to put him through surgeries, etc. Our other cat died at 17 in her sleep snoring happily the year before. That's how I hope to go someday!

[Skittles]

53. thank you for that advice

I worry about what I feed my kitties as I do consider them my kids :)

[joycebell]

57. another view on cat food

For another view on dry versus wet cat food try:

Dr. Lisa Pierson's website:
http://www.catinfo.org/

Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins on the relationship of dry cat food and feline diabetes
via the Feline Diabetes Website:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/hodgkinsarticle.htm

[kestrel91316]

62. Cats with diabetes certainly, in most cases, benefit from

a higher protein/lower carb diet and so canned food can fit into diabetes management. But one must weigh in the increased risk of OTHER dangerous diseases posed by that same canned food.


Dr. Peirson, OTOH, appears to be blissfully unaware of the disease risks of not only canned food but raw meats. I certainly hope her malpractice insurance is paid up and she has the maximum coverage, because if she's going to openly advocate something that poses a widely-recognized public health risk, she's sure going to need it.

[BearSquirrel2]

33. CANS???

Did this ever strike you as overboard when dry food does the same job.

[notesdev]

36. Not for one of my girls

who won't eat more than 10% of her diet right now as dry food.

It's a little bit harder to deny a hungry kitten what she wants than it appears on paper.

The man who said "No man can serve two masters" never had a pair of cats in his house, I bet.

[kestrel91316]

38. Sometimes a cat that is really really picky about what it eats is

that way because it has inflammatory bowel disease. Something to ponder.......

I have a kitty with it who was very mild for years, no trouble eating, then at age 11-12 she suddenly worsened. She is on meds now and back to normal. She had a chronic slightly soft, stinky stool, and then started spitting up foam occasionally, then her appetite tanked and it took a while for me to notice. She got "anemia of chronic disorder" (common to shoemakers' children I suspect). Oy.

When I have a patient that isn't eating the sort of foods any normal cat would (including better dry foods) I always have IBD in the back of my mind. It can be sneaky and subtle.

[notesdev]

39. Nah, she's in good shape

I've been fortunate enough to have been blessed with two cats that are in excellent health all around. Worst thing to happen to either in almost 3 years of having them was that one had a (yuk) ruptured anal sac abscess. My guess is that her preference for the wet food is a result of the breeder using a raw diet.

I tried leaving out nothing but the dry food, but there's only so much pathetic kitty whining I can stand before I break down and serve the master what she desires.

[kestrel91316]

45. Oh, those lovely anal sacs. Not a day goes by that I don't thank God

that HUMANS don't have them.........

[BearSquirrel2]

60. Ceasar Milan ...

Ceaser Milan is a dog expert. But I have a feeling he could help you with this particular cat issue.

Throw the cat in the box with the food until it gets over itself. A truly hungry animal will eat virtually anything edible. You had a spoiled animal begging for McNuggets.

[kestrel91316]

61. Cesar Milan (and you) don't know much about cats.

We NEVER try to starve a cat into submission because (and this is one of those weird cat things) a cat WILL in fact resist a new food sometimes, to the extent that it develops hepatic lipidosis, a deadly form of liver failure. This is particularly a risk in cats that start out overweight or obese.

Cats should almost always be TRANSITIONED onto a new food by gradually mixing it in with the old food. And careful attention needs to be paid to how well the cat is eating the new food.

Cats are NOT just small dogs.

[BearSquirrel2]

64. You're right ...

You're right, cat's are not small dogs. They're large vermin.

There are all kinds of risks in life. I would think the risk of the cat dying outweighs you being a cat's bitch.

[BearSquirrel2]

59. I'm aware that some pets have special dietary requirements

I'm aware that some pets have special dietary requirements. However, I think that too many people indulge their pets when turn their nose. A hungry animal will eat virtually anything. If the animal isn't hungry, they won't eat unless something is very appealing.

My dog has given me the nose. I just ignored him. He ate what I gave him.

[Mojorabbit]

63. I read a few stories

during the melamine poisoning thing where a few people did that and their pets died. The dogs knew the food was bad. The owners did not "listen". Just a thought. My dogs will eat just about anything so when they turn up their noses they are either not feeling well or the food may be off.

I do wildlife rehab and with the young cottontails it is the same. If they don't show any interest in eating after being good eaters, I know they are developing intestinal problems and start them on medication right away.

[BearSquirrel2]

65. There are more rabbits where that one came from ...

I think you're confusing another variety of dry vs. Fancy Feast in a can.

As far as cottontails go ... Dude, that isn't an endangered species. You are aware about how prolific rabbits are right?

[Mojorabbit]

66. No I am not confusing it

There were numerous poisoned brands. And the dogs refused to eat them and the people decided they would eat the food when they were hungry enough.

And re cottontails, I know there are a gazillion of them. People find orphans or run over them with their lawnmowers or their dogs or cats injure them and they bring them to me to fix or raise.
That is what wildlife rehabbers do. All Wild animals not just endangered ones. And I am a dudette.

[BearSquirrel2]

67. Dudette ...

Dudette, you do realize that all you're doing is making a wolf or a coyote eat some OTHER rabbit right? Or, likely that one anyway.

[Mojorabbit]

68. I have twenty years

of studying natural history. I know what I am doing. Not to worry. I have raised hawks, owls, otters and cougars and a lot in between.
I have friends who do whales and dolphins. I do small mammals now. Each one is it's own self and precious for the being and I give it a chance at life.

[BearSquirrel2]

69. Do you ever ...

Do you ever feel like the doctor servicing death row inmates?

It it makes you feel great, that's wonderful. Don't pretend that you're helping the environment any by rehabbing an injured jackrabbit instead of putting it out of it's misery. The wolves and coyotes still have another shot.

[roguevalley]

44. Milk is $8.99 a gallon in Barrow, Alaska. Just saying. :-O

[boobooday]

2. Funny quote from mastercard guy

“People have started to shift spending as if we were in a recession,” said Michael McNamara, vice president for research and analysis at MasterCard.

You'd think he might make the connection that our stagnant wages and rising costs have caused us to shift spending, ergo, the recession is because WE are getting our asses kicked in the free market as employees, as debtors, as homeowners etc. This guy can't see the trees for the forest! I love how all these elites tell us it's our PERCEPTION that is fucked up, as if the whole issue would be solved if we would just listen to them when they say there is no recession!

[crikkett]

5. well the MC spellbinding worked all thru the 90s and then again in the * admin.

He's just surprised that we've woken up.

[soothsayer]

9. Does he know that we took food and fuel off the cpi a few years back?

So we've undoubtedly BEEN in a recession for a few years already.

[PSPS]

11. It is 'perception' that they care about. They measure it. "Consumer Confidence Index"

Of course, they don't talk about it much in the media when it's bad. But it's bad. Here's February's result:

[eyesroll]

3. Gahhhh....

"In Ohio, Holly Levitsky is replacing the Lucky Charms cereal in her kitchen with Millville Marshmallows and Stars, a less expensive store brand. In New Hampshire, George Goulet is no longer booking hotel rooms at the Hilton, favoring the lower-cost Hampton Inn. And in Michigan, Jennifer Olden is buying Gain laundry detergent instead of the full-price Tide."

This whole article is proof Americans are very well marketed-to. Is Tide actually better than Gain? (If it is, then perhaps you're not actually saving money by buying Gain, if it means your clothes aren't going to last as long or you'll need to use twice as much detergent. If it's not, why weren't you using Gain to begin with?) Why would you feed anyone Lucky Charms or its generic knock-offs?

And the lady who used to make lasagna from scratch--make vegetarian lasagna, go easy on the cheese but put some squash or spinach or mushrooms in, and you'll come in at less than 99 cents a serving. Or, at least, make your sloppy joe mix yourself--tomato paste, mustard, brown sugar, apple cider vinegar, maybe a dash of worcestershire sauce, onion, garlic, bell pepper if you want. Stuff you probably have on hand (or can buy cheaply and it'll keep for a long time). Don't compromise your family's health by giving them 99-cent frozen dinners and HFCS-laden Manwich.

Edit: I understand that with a recession often comes long working hours (or long hours looking for work) and cooking from scratch becomes near-impossible, time-wise...but this lady seemed to imply it was a money thing, not a time issue.

[ellie]

6. I have always shopped this way

I buy Purex laundry detergent at $2.99 a bottle or whatever is cheaper. In all of my adult life, I have never used Tide. My mom always cooked from scratch when we were growing up because she couldn't afford the pre-packaged stuff beyond condiments. I guess it rubbed off on me because I am the same way: I cook from scratch.

[Warpy]

14. My mother hated to cook and it showed

I often say I learned how to cook in self defense. I'm a scratch cook and I rarely eat flesh food, usually fish. It's funny, but I really hate the taste of most processed frozen foods, all I can taste is the salt.

I have to be careful of laundry detergents, though, because I have a delicate Irish hide that is allergic to a lot of perfumes. The worst was a sample of something in a green box many years ago. I broke out wherever I wore clothing, from the wrists up and neck down. Never again!

[BearSquirrel2]

34. When I was a kid ...

When I was a kid the stuff from ALDI was CRAP!!! These days, it's largely very good tasting and high quality food. They have VERY good knockoffs and you can easily substitute their cereals for any marketed brand.

[crim son]

35. Me too.

It has always caused me stress not to look for the least expensive way to get the job done right. With cooking, home-cooked foods usually taste much better than their premade or crappy restaurant counterparts. When I was young it was cheaper to sew my own clothes, and I did. I've always adapted to get the most out of my money. At the moment we are back to largely vegetarian meals, or if we use meat we use half of what we once did.

[NickB79]

27. Want to hear something very interesting about generic dairy products?

When you make cottage cheese, sour cream, and yogurt, you mix up massive 20,000 lb vats of it at a time. Then, you simply change the cups on the filling machines every hour or so, from brand-name to store-brand/generic.

The brand-name and generic are EXACTLY the same product!!! So why spend the extra money on a prettier cup?

When I started working in the dairy industry, this blew my mind at first.

[notesdev]

48. I've switched to generics on lots of products

And except for things that really qualify as luxury items (snacks and the like), I'd be really hard pressed to tell the difference.

[crikkett]

4. I'm insulted

“It hasn’t gotten to human food mixed with pet food yet,” he said, “but it is certainly headed in that direction.”

It's worse than that, my dear fellow, and it's been worse than that. Last year in May I could've killed my dog with chicken that was tainted with melamine but deemed safe for human consumption.

[kestrel91316]

18. In all fairness, it wasn't chicken that was tainted with melamine.

The problem was faux wheat gluten (actually wheat flour adulterated with both melamine and cyanuric acid, a really bad combo for future reference!)in certain pet foods.

Your biggest problem with chicken is gonna be Salmonella and Campylobacter. That's why you cook it.

[crikkett]

56. I'm being fair. Tainted dog food was fed to chickens instead of thrown out.

The chickens were slaughtered at an Indiana factory and put up for sale, for human consumption.

[bulloney]

7. We've been on such spending patterns for at least two years.

At $7-12/pound, who can look at eating steak? We've had a lot of burger/sausage and pasta dishes.

It's called living within a budget. Too many people put their lifestyles on a credit card, thinking the gravy train never ends. Then, when faced with a job loss or other catastrophe, they have no clue where to turn. So, they file bankruptcy, thinking it solves their problem.

I lost a good paying job three years ago. Was unemployed for two months and took three jobs that, combined, paid less than the job I lost. We made our mortgage payments, cut out vacations, my wife and I didn't exchange Christmas gifts (but continued giving to the kids), and cut out other unnecessary expenses. A better paying job came along that pays more than the job I lost and we never were in a catch-up mode with our expenses.

If more people would quit thinking they're entitled to the world all of the time, these economic downturns wouldn't be so catastrophic. The housing crisis wouldn't be as severe because people wouldn't be buying/building homes that are way beyond their means; they wouldn't have been borrowing senselessly against the value of these homes; and so forth.

[Kali]

10. I suppose the arguement could be made that if you already live

frugally then you may have no way to tighten the belt during harder times! :( this is where I am, the price of gas is killing us

[kestrel91316]

19. I've only bought about 3 steaks in the past 8 or 9 YEARS.

It's out of my price range - I won't buy the regular stuff - only grass-fed these days........

[soothsayer]

8. I find dog food to be pretty expensive. But dayum, some smells really good!

[jwirr]

13. An interesting aside: Our WalMart had a McDonalds just inside

the entrance. Yesterday I went in and it was gone. McD goes broke in WM?

[BadgerKid]

16. Saw clearance sales last week

I was taught that at 90% markdown stores were losing money, but given that essentially everything is now made abroad, it wouldn't surprise me if they were breaking even or even a little in the black.

[sofa king]

22. Well, it came earlier than expected, but it looks like it may be here.

I'd say there's a pretty good chance that the rest of our lives will be spent dealing with hunger, insufficient energy, and the threat of Malthusian die-off at any moment.

It was going to happen anyway, it's just that the Republican Party brought it to us about fifteen years early.

So far, nobody in the major press has placed all the facts together: the world economy now depends almost entirely on the price of energy; that energy is put into the ground to make fertilizer, to plant food, to harvest it, and to distribute it. When the price of energy goes up, the food production network must necessarily suffer--and suffer worse for it if net-energy loss solutions like corn-based fuel are pursued. Social order will correspondingly decrease, and nations will view their surplus of population in the way they have always been viewed: as invading hordes to be sent outside of their borders to find sustenance at the expense of others.

Throwing traditional right-wing economic solutions at the problem won't work. All their theories are built on the premise of infinite growth thanks to cheap energy. Well, now we've grown enough to fill the jar, and we'll be dealing from now on with contraction.

If those bastards figure out that the best profits are to be made from death and starvation, then we're really screwed. Which makes running the Republican Party completely out of Washington an imperative on which literally billions of lives depend.

[Psephos]

41. Short version: The World Will End Soon!

Seems to have gotten this far somehow...my guess is it will continue lumbering onward.

I remember enough of these scares to know they are a state of mind more than a state of world. Specifically, the price of fossil fuels is now high enough to spur serious development of alternatives.

I note that every single person on this thread had breakfast (or could have) and communicates via computer. I can live with that level of poverty.

[sofa king]

54. I can live with that, too.

But what happens when you have to choose between one and the other? A lot of us are about to find out.

[Divine Discontent]

29. gotta love this!

:) starve yourself b/c times are tough.




pro-Obama and Anti-McSame items added each week!
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[kestrel91316]

50. Sorry - I honestly didn't mean to TOTALLY hijack your thread, lol!

It occurred to me after the discussion turned to anal sacs that maybe some innocent viewers might be getting more than they bargained for here........

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_anal_sacs.html

And yes, cats have them, too.