Redford shows Che Guevara film in Cuba

[Osolomia]

26 Jan 2004

HAVANA (Reuters) - Robert Redford showed his new film about Che Guevara, "The Motorcycle Diaries," to the widow and children of the legendary guerrilla fighter on Sunday.

"I came to present the film that I produced on Che Guevara and I am very happy to be in Cuba," Redford told Reuters before the private screening at Havana's Charles Chaplin cinema.

He watched the film with Guevara's widow, Aleida March, son Camilo and daughters Celia and Aleidita, as well as Ramiro Valdes, a top military commander in Cuba's communist government who fought with Guevara and Fidel Castro in the Sierra Maestra mountains.

The film, directed by Brazilian Walter Salles, is based on the diaries Guevara wrote on a nine-month bike trip through South America in 1952 when he was an asthmatic 23-year-old medical student.

... Redford flew to Cuba on Friday from the Sundance Film Festival, of which he is a backer and where "The Motorcycle Diaries" received a standing ovation at its debut a week ago.

More...
http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=entertainmentNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4202571

[JanMichael]

1. Commie! Red! Pinko! When will it be available here in the states?

The history present at Redford's viewing is truly spectacular...

[Osolomia]

9. Never, if censoring Oliver Stone's Commandante is an example

Oliver Stone Denounces Miami Cubans' Censor Ploys
http://www.wbai.org/artman/publish/article_603.php

[sonias]

2. I'd love to see this too

Che Guevara, a revolutionary hero who fought for the poor.

Sonia

[Fenris]

3. If you haven't read "Motorcycle Diaries" READ IT.

Amazing f'ing book.

[LostInTheMaise]

4. How many people did Che Guevara kill

And were they all rich? Did he ever kill the wrong person by mistake?

[xxqqqzme]

5. don't keep us in suspense

please - what ever could the answers B?

[Bridget Burke]

6. You tell us......

Yes, you are lost!

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

7. How many did John Kerry kill (women and children included)?

Will you still vote for him if/when he gets the nomination? Just wondering.

[0007]

8. Probably a few rich Fulgencio Batista buddies that were screwing

the poor.

[LostInTheMaise]

11. I guess they had it coming eh?

Personally I'm anti-death penalty but I guess if Che Guevara is God then maybe I should change my mind? Tough call.

[Dirk39]

10. You can kill millions of innocent people,

and talk about democrazy, human rights and freedom.
Innocent people die in wars and innocent people die during revolutions.
The same people advocating war criminals and celebrate them as kind of heroes, offend people like Ernesto Guevara for not being Jesus. Maybe even Jesus wasn't Jesus.
I'm pretty sure, if Guevara would have been asked, if the only victims of the revolution were "Batista Fashists", he would have replied: No, sorry, no.
Revolutionaries at least have to be killed to be admired. And they have to be turned into soap-operas with a kind of rock-star status.
Don't be afraid of him, he's buried as a T-shirt.
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[LostInTheMaise]

13. I fear him not

I just want to see nobody die from the result of a revolution or otherwise. Call me a peacnick if you wish but death should be natural.

[Dirk39]

14. Then you have a lot of work to do in the country, you live in...

I just hope that you become 999 years old, before you even think of judging the cuban revolutionairies. It's like defending those "innocent germans", who were killed during WWII, 'cause you don't want to see nobody die from the result of a revolution or otherwise....
Yes, but wasn't there something happening before?
It's really a bit like teaching pacifism to someone, who's lying on the floor with your boots in his face.
Dirk

[LostInTheMaise]

17. No thanks. It sounds too much like Iraq

If any killing is justified in the name of liberation then all killing in the name of liberation is justified. To excuse Che is to excuse those in Iraq doing the same thing.

Killing people is not the answer and Che gets no pardon.

[0007]

29. So should honesty and peace but the mafia doesn't operate that way

You would have loved Che Guevara if you had known him. Read a few book my friend and calm down a little.

[Born_a_Democrat]

12. speaking as a native of the land "Che" helped free

he can go FUCK HIMSELF WITH A BIG RUBBER DICK IN HIS COFFIN...

My grandfather died in Cuba because he was on the government's "black list"...they wouldn't let him leave after we left in secret.

Che's "help" in "freeing" the people of Cuba did nothing more than deliver us from one tyrant to another.

And that's my opinion of "Che"


on edit: Robert Redford has the right to do what the hell he wants...so I defend his right to make a trip to Cuba to show a film if he so chooses however, somehow the fact that he praises those in power simply by remaining silent of their atrocities to show a Goddamned film is beyond atrocious.

[berner59]

15. Where did Redford praise Castro??

He just said he was glad to be in Cuba...and this film is about the coming of age/awareness of a future revolutionary... I'm so very sorry about your Grandfather but how is a film being shown to the subjects' family an atrocity??

Redford champions indie film & stories which spark discussion...sounds like this film doesn't promote the political movement but rather the "story" of a certain time in Che's life...

[Born_a_Democrat]

26. berner...I owe you this:

Your questions are valid and so I will answer


Praise can be in the form of active or passive. Active is the praise that some Latin American leaders bestow upon Castro simply because they hate the U.S. and they take the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach (which never served us very well as Saddam was our "friend" at one point).

Redford's praise is passive. If you disagreed with the policies of the NAZIs you would not go to Germany to show a film of one of the people who helped put them in power (i.e. Leni Riefenstahl). So by going there to show a movie about someone the government considers a "Revolutionary Hero" is PRAISE....and noone here can tell me different I don't care how you spin it.


"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I'm sure we all know that one. And whether or not "Che" had good intentions, the result of his actions cannot be reconciled nor can the lives of those lost who disagreed with the tyrant Castro be brought back by simply saying that "Che" wanted to "help the people".

In this country if a company markets a new product designed to help people and it hurts people instead we hold them accountable. Why should we not do the same for men who set in motion events that cost lives and in the end, put the masses in a situation which is just as bad or worse than they were in before.

so SCREW HIM and Che too.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

16. Whata filthy mouth ! why the profanity?

You speak of these rubber items because you've had some experience with them?
Or do you just fantasize a bit?
whatever it is--
If you don't like history don't read it or watch it.

More power to Redford!!

Nowadays with the internet and advanced communication it's alot harder to cover up information for the purpose of re-writing history.
Bushco tries to rewrite it and we bust them on it
If some people find facts offensive too bad-
Censorship is out-
Truth is in-

If we have a second revolution here in this country one day, maybe someone's father or grandfather will die because of it.
But when the rich pig fat cat self centered gain absolute control there is sometimes a severe backlash.

Hopefully our next revolution will be non violent but when the GREEDY cut off all social programs to the less fortunate (because they gave away the treasury in tax cuts to the rich and spent it on conquering countries)there will be a big problem in this country and someone strong may well just stand up on behalf of those being sold up the river.

[LostInTheMaise]

19. I just read about Che

He killed many people. Did the people he killed deserve to die by the hand of Che. I don't approve of killing people with or without a trial.

Why would any progressive praise a killer like Che?

[9215]

21. Are you being vague on purpose?

"He (Che) killed many people", etc. Well Patton killed alot of people too, some of them innocent no doubt.

Once must consider the circumstances of the deaths.....ah forget it.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Do you approve the way Che was killed?

Tracked down in Bolivia and captured.

The CIA operative behind the capture had him shot the next day. If he'd committed crimes, why was he not brought to trial?

"I just read about Che"??? No, your gusano grandpa told you why you should hate him.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Born_a_Democrat]

38. My deleted message

My message was deleted because I called someone an idiot. In retrospect I should not have used the word idiot since it was a personal attack in the format I used it.

I apologize to the moderators for my violation however this is not an apology to the subject of my post. I continue to hold my opinion of this person. I have re-read the rules and believe that saying this does not violate the board rules.

[Osolomia]

18. Interesting

A Batistiano exile and a born Democrat flies in the face of popular political analyses that they’re all Repubs.

[Mika]

30. Right wing Cuban exiles feel right at home in the Dem party

And the Dem party makes them feel right at home too.

charts from www.opensecrets.org

[Born_a_Democrat]

31. What a clever incinuation

Good one, you don't really call me right wing but, then again, YOU DO.


Although I am not right wing by any stretch that can be measured in the mainstream of political leaning, I am also not NAIVE as many "lefties" are that have never experienced the "hospitality" of a REAL SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST system.


At Boston University there were "Socialist Clubs" meetings flyers on the BBs on every floor. I just passed them and laughed.

What do White-bred, upper middle income, drive my Saab to school, never left Boston kids know about Socialism. Exactly DICK! Yet I see the proliferation of these groups as the triumph of the American way of life. Freedom. Too bad they don't know they're promoting the same ideology that would limit theirs.

Well, live and learn is what I say. I hope you have.

[Mika]

32. What are you talking about?

I have no idea what you are trying to say (white bred? Saab driving?).

No sale here, Born_a_Democrat. I've been to Cuba many times, I know hundreds of Cubans in Cuba, many of whom I communicate with regularly. I've met none who feel as you do.

Live and learn is a good credo.

That's why I decided to go to Cuba and learn for myself whenever I can.

Americans should be demanding that their rights be fully reinstated in order to do so also.

I learned that Cuba is NOTHING like you or the US gov or the extremist miamicuban "exiles" describe.

[Born_a_Democrat]

34. How surprising..A tourist doesn't see Cuba the way a native does

I'm shocked that when you went to Cuba on vacation as a "foreigner" you did not experience the oppression, hunger, secret police arrests and everything else that Cuban exiles complain about.

Well this must mean that we are all full of shit...LOL...I mean LIVING in the country can't quite give you the depth of understanding as VISITING with American Dollars can...WHAT WAS I THINKING?


Please accept my apology for having led you down the wrong path...You are clearly well versed in the actual situation for the majority of Cubans on the island.


Unbelievable.



on edit: Bring those "hundreds of Cubans" that you know to the U.S. with no chance of being deported and then ask them how they feel about Castro's government. You know, just for kicks. Cause we all know that living in Cuba, when you ask someone to tell you if they like the government or not they are all FREE to say what they trully believe.

[Mika]

36. Tourist?

So, Born_a_Democrat, you know the who, what, where, and why of my trips to Cuba, do you?

My first trips to Cuba were as a student. My latter trips are as a doctor.


I have travelled all over Cuba freely. Going where I wanted to. I lived with many Cuban families (I don't stay in hotels there because I have many warm and gracious friends in Cuba) I never saw or heard of the oppression, hunger, secret police arrests and everything else that Cuban exiles complain about. Because that is not the way things are in Cuba. Cubans are free to speak their minds, and they do.. Americans are prevented from seeing that is the case, because Americans are prevented from freely exercising their travel rights by the US government. The rabbid anti Castro "exiles' are about as trustworthy as Ahmed Chalabi and his Iraqi exile minions were when they were in America, drumming up support (with a vested interest) for a US attack with lies and fabrications.


"Cause we all know that living in Cuba, when you ask someone to tell you if they like the government or not they are all FREE to say what they trully believe."


We all know? LOL How can "we all know" about a place that our own government prevents us from easily seeing? What Americans think they know (by and large) is the propaganda put forth by the US government and the radical Miamicuban exiles in Miami who have a vested interest in maintaining the sanctions and embargo on Cuba and Americans.


From the way your posts read, you have never been there, and you don't know much about the place.

[Born_a_Democrat]

39. Wow you got me dead bang!

From the way your posts read, you have never been there, and you don't know much about the place.


Nooo! I've never been there. I was just born there a 4th generation Cuban and lived there for a substantial part of my life.


Of course the wonderful Government opened my eyes when I was in school. The teachers would prove how "The Revolution Government" was better than God by saying :

"pray to God for ice cream" (and of course no ice cream in sight)

"Now pray to Fidel for ice cream" (and lo and behold a cart of ice cream would be wheeled in)

What a wonderful place to live....I agree with you.


Or maybe how I was told that my Godfather left on "vacation" to Varadero when he wasn't around any more all of a sudden.

And of course he "went to live there cause he liked it so much" was the real reason I never saw him again.


Try living there, with no hope of being able to leave, then come talk to me.


on edit: For the record, I think (and have thought for a long time) that the embargo is nothing more than a way for Republicans to try to prove to the old school STUPID CUBANS how much they are on their side. Of course knowing that the embargo is doing nothing but helping Castro perpetuate the idea to the people that the big bad US is out to get "us".

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

41. Oye primo siento lo de tu pariente pero...

Eso fue el gobierno de Fidel Castro, no Guevara. Ademas cual era la alternativa dejar que el hijo de puta de Batista continuara jodiendo a todo el que no fuese blanco o rico? Y que ademas siguieran siendo el prostibulo de los Estados Unidos?

[Born_a_Democrat]

46. me sacas el cuchillo pero me metes un tiro

Si tengo un cuchillo metido en la espalda la mejor manera de curarme no es sacarmelo y meterme un tiro.

Eso es lo que ha hecho tu heroe....

Tu segiras pensando como quieras porque tu no sientes mi perdida....yo no puedo pedir que tu entiendas...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

47. Primero que nada yo no tengo heroes.

Segundo no contestaste la pregunta que te hize. Y que de toda la gente que el regimen anterior mato y "desaparecio"? Esos no te importan verdad? En el momento de la revolucion mucha de la gente que participo no se imaginaban que pasaria en el futuro. Lo que si sabian es que habia que derrocar a Batista. Por si no lo sabes EEUU ayudo a los dos lados porque la CIA tambien le suplio ayuda a Fidel. Fue la gente cubana la que se alzo y cambiaron las cosas en tu pais. No fueron solo las dos personas que tu tanto odias, si no un pais entero. Preguntale a un negro de esos tiempos que tan buenas eran las cosas bajo tu amiguito Batista. Esos si que tenian el balazo y la puñalada constantemente en la espalda. Tu perdida es tu perdida y tienes razon no es la mia pero eso no significa que no me importe la vida humana. Nosotros hemos asesinado a mas gente alrededor del mundo en nombre del "anti-comunismo" de los que el gobierno cubano podria soñar. Es bueno acordarse de esa gente tambien.

[Judi Lynn]

37. You could probably be useful to our misguided CIA

(snip) THE CIA has long believed that while 1 million to 3 million Cubans would leave the island if they had the
opportunity, the rest of the nation’s 11 million people would stay behind. (snip)

The CIA believes there are many reasons Cubans are content to remain in their homeland. Some don’t
want to be separated from home, family and friends. Some fear they would never be able to return, and still
others just fear change in general. Officials also say there is a reservoir of loyalty to Fidel Castro and, as in
the case of Juan Miguel Gonzalez, to the Communist Party.

U.S. officials say they no longer regard Cuba as a totalitarian state with aggressive policies toward its people,
but instead an authoritarian state, where the public can operate within certain bounds — just not push the envelope.
More important, Cuban media and Cuban culture long ago raised the banner of nationalism above that of
Marxism.

The intelligence community says the battle over Elian has presented Castro with a “unique opportunity” to
enhance that nationalism.
There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great
outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island
and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials.
(snip/...)

http://www.rose-hulman.edu/~delacova/cuba/loyal.htm

On edit:

I have to wonder why the CIA remarks, as well as the observations of all the U.S. military officials who have been to Cuba in the last ten years or so, and communicated their findings to the U.S. public, don't convey the mawkish radical right-wing gibberish we occassionally run across in US/Cuba "dialogue."

I'm sure common sense will guide the undecided, as will some time invested in simple reading over time. Research provides the answers.

Anything that sounds bogus, that sounds like sheer emotionalism, and right-wing propaganda-spewing probably is.

[Judi Lynn]

35. Hi, Mika. Wondered if you had heard about this factoid

It concerns Raoul Cantero's father, the son-in-law of Fulgencio Batista.

I just ran across it a moment ago, and was somewhat sobered to learn this, which has been kept out of the Florida press during the time around _{Jeb Bush's} appointment of Cantero to the Florida Supreme Court:

(snip)This one Hispanic on the final list for Florida's Supreme Court just happens to be the grandson of former Cuban dictator, General
Fulgencio Batista. And his father served under Batista as an intelligence officer in the Bureau for the Repression of Communist Activities or BRAC, notorious for torture and assassination.(snip)

http://ciponline.org/cuba/cubainthenews/newsarticles/rp062702franklin.htm

I would hate to i-n-S-i-n-u-a-t-e it makes Cantero seem even nastier, but I would have to point out it's damned strange to see someone with his "connections" being appointed to a state supreme court in a civilized country.

Wierd, isn't it? He was Orlando Bosch's, bomber/mass murderer, own lawyer during the time they arranged his pardon from _{George H. W. Bush.}

[eablair3]

20. Will Bush/Aschcroft prosecute Robert Redford?

I saw where Bush and Ashcroft are prosecuting Americans who travel to Cuba without the proper U.S. governmental approval prior to the trip. Will Redford be prosecuted? Did he have permission to go to Cuba?

[0007]

27. I sure hope they try!

[jsw_81]

23. Democrats shouldn't even think about praising killers like Che

Or Castro. I know it's tempting for some of you lefties to align yourselves with these thugs, but please, come to your senses already.

[Bridget Burke]

24. Please, list his crimes....

If he was guilty of so much evil, why was he not brought before a court? Why was he captured, then shot?

"The Motorcycle Diaries" is taken from Che's early writings. It explains just how he became interested in the fight against injustice. Sometimes a revolution is necessary; Cuba seems to have been such a case.

Why do you assume that "leftie" is a bad word?

[berner59]

25. Redford's been to Cuba before...

And was investigated by the FBI... He probably had permission but probably wouldn't mind meeting Ashcroft face to face and give him a piece of his mind...

Like "All the Presidents Men" which interested Redford because of the "story" of the reporters and freedom of speech, this was similar...what led Che to become a revolutionary??

[Judi Lynn]

33. Interesting passage I found referring to Che Guevara

It's within material which concerns a Batista agency which tortured and murdered political dissidents prior to the second Cuban revolution:

(snip) Warren Hinkle and William Turner, in The Fish is Red, easily the best book on the CIA’s war against Cuba during the first 20 years of the revolution, tell the story of the CIA’s efforts to save the life of one of their Batista Cubans. It was March 1959, less than three months after the revolutionary movement triumphed. The Deputy Chief of the CIA’s main Batista secret police force had been captured, tried and condemned to a firing squad. The Agency had set up the unit in 1956 and called it the Bureau for the Repression of Communist Activities or BRAC for its initials in Spanish. With CIA training, equipment and money it became arguably the worst of Batista’s torture and murder organizations, spreading its terror across the whole of the political opposition, not just the communists.

The Deputy Chief of BRAC, one José Castaño Quevedo, had been trained in the United States and was the BRAC liaison man with the CIA Station in the U.S. Embassy. On learning of his sentence, the Agency Chief of Station sent a journalist collaborator named Andrew St. George to Che Guevara, then in charge of the revolutionary tribunals, to plead for Castaño’s life. After hearing out St. George for much of a day, Che told him to tell the CIA chief that Castaño was going to die, if not because he was an executioner of Batista, then because he was an agent of the CIA. St. George headed from Che’s headquarters in the Cabaña fortress to the seaside U.S. Embassy on the Malecón to deliver the message. On hearing Che’s words the CIA Chief responded solemnly, "This is a declaration of war." Indeed, the CIA lost many more of its Cuban agents during those early days and in the unconventional war years that followed.

Today when I drive on 31st Avenue on the way to the airport, just before turning left at the Marianao military hospital, I pass on the left a large, multi-story white police station that occupies an entire city block. The style looks like 1920’s fake castle, resulting in a kind of giant White Castle hamburger joint. High walls surround the building on the side streets, and on top of the walls at the corners are guard posts, now unoccupied, like those overlooking workout yards in prisons. Next door, separated from the castle by 110th street, is a fairly large two-story green house with barred windows and other security protection. I don’t know its use today, but before it was the dreaded BRAC Headquarters, one of the CIA’s more infamous legacies in Cuba.

The same month as the BRAC Deputy was executed, on March 10, 1959, President Eisenhower presided over a meeting of his National Security Council at which they discussed how to replace the government in Cuba. It was the beginning of a continuous policy of regime change that every administration since Eisenhower has continued.

As I read of the arrests of the 75 dissidents, 44 years to the month after the BRAC Deputy’s execution, and saw the U.S. government’s outrage over their trials and sentences, one phrase from Washington came to mind that united American reactions in 1959 with events in 2003: "Hey! Those are OUR GUYS the bastards are screwing!"
(snip/...)
http://www.ruleoflawandcuba.fsu.edu/report-2003-0029.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Although it wasn't the only group which dealt in torture and murder for Batista, it's name does come up from time to time for people looking into Cuba's pre-revolutionary history.

Batista's state police were also employed in death squad activities, as well as were "Masferrer's Tigers," a paramilitary group controlled by a right-wing newspaper publisher, Rolando Masferrer, who was bombed soundly after he fled to Miami.

[Judi Lynn]

40. BBC News story on Robert Redford, Che Guevara, Cuba

Last Updated: Monday, 26 January, 2004, 11:19 GMT



Guevara family hails Redford film


Redford screened the film for Guevara's widow and children
The family of the late revolutionary Che Guevara have praised a film about his life by actor Robert Redford.

Redford showed them The Motorcycle Diaries at a private screening in the Cuban capital Havana with Guevara's widow and children present.

"The film is excellent," said Aleida Guevara, who provided her husband's diaries to the film-makers.

Guevara took a nine-month motorcycle trip through South America in 1952 when he was a medical student. (snip)

Guevara's epic trip introduced him to the poverty in South America, and was a catalyst to him joining Fidel Castro's Communist guerrillas in Mexico. The group won power in Cuba in 1959.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3429375.stm




On edit:
Adding a "poema visual" I just located:

[JohnOneillsMemory]

42. Those who are deified gall those who suffered their fallibilities.

The contention on this thread over whether Che was a killer or a savior reminds me of the difficult paradox of wanting to promote noble causes with saints who are really only fallible humans.

Paul Robeson was an amazing man who spent his life promoting justice yet was blind to Stalin's horrors and wouldn't recognize and condemn them. No, Robeson didn't kill anybody. But his vision was not unclouded by his own agenda and rationalizations. Still, I can revere him for the much larger part of his life which I admire.

Che's life was deep in a war zone and innocent blood flowed along with the blood of oppressors. It is worth aknowledging, not denying.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Could you provide a reference to actual savior status for Che Guevara? n/t

[JohnOneillsMemory]

44. I refer to his image as embodying ideals and martyrdom. That's all.

Personally, I think Che was an amazing man in difficult times. Killing always makes me sad.

For instance, I admire Jimmy Carter's life and values and yet it has been revealed that he authorized the training of the mujahadeen to draw the Soviets into Afghanistan. So much bloodshed. I'm convinced he's been living his subsequent life doing good works as penance for getting involved with such horrors.

[Bridget Burke]

45. His death.

He'd had little success in fomenting rebellion in Bolivia but faced his execution bravely. The corrupt officers displayed his body, then buried him in secret. Perhaps they thought a trial would give him a platform for his ideas. But they created a legend.

He never grew old. He never became a fat bureaucrat. He never compromised his revolutionary ideals.

Whatever the truth of the life of Ernesto Guevara Serna (descended from the Lynches of Galway on his father's side), his death made him a hero.