Mars' Water Appears To Have Been Too Salty To Support Life

[Ichingcarpenter]

Source: ScienceDaily (

ScienceDaily (May 30, 2008) — A new analysis of the Martian rock that gave hints of water on the Red Planet -- and, therefore, optimism about the prospect of life -- now suggests the water was more likely a thick brine, far too salty to support life as we know it.

The finding, by scientists at Harvard University and Stony Brook University, is detailed May 30 in the journal Science.

"Liquid water is required by all species on Earth and we've assumed that water is the very least that would be necessary for life on Mars," says Nicholas J. Tosca, a postdoctoral researcher in Harvard's Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology. "However, to really assess Mars' habitability we need to consider the properties of its water. Not all of Earth's waters are able to support life, and the limits of terrestrial life are sharply defined by water's temperature, acidity, and salinity."

Together with co-authors Andrew H. Knoll and Scott M. McLennan, Tosca analyzed salt deposits in four-billion-year-old Martian rock explored by NASA's Mars Exploration Rover, Opportunity, and by orbiting spacecraft. It was the Mars Rover whose reports back to Earth stoked excitement over water on the ancient surface of the Red Planet.

Read more: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080529141404.htm

[DS1]

1. Oh NO! There's too much SALT IN IT!

[libnnc]

12. It's RARW!111

YOU'RE SWEATING IN THE SAUCE!!1111

did you effing TASTE IT?!!>1111

:rofl:

[DS1]

14. wasn't that disgusting?

Can you imagine eating there a few months ago, thinking "Damn, this is salty" and then you're home and you find out it was because the big one was sweating in it?


eewwwwww!!!

[bicentennial_baby]

22. You are a donkey!!

:rofl:

[Frank Cannon]

30. LOL. Thanks for that.

I love that foul-mouthed donkey.

[Mojorabbit]

2. We are still finding

new life forms deep in the ocean. I can't see why some kind of life could not have evolved on mars that could survive in extra saline water. Is there a given that the parameters of life can only be similar to our parameters on Earth?

[kestrel91316]

3. Some critters LIKE really salty water:

http://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view_rec.php?id=6056

[Warpy]

4. That would depend on the volume of water, wouldn't it?

Obviously, as it evaporated, the environment would turn into a Dead Sea environment.

[Xipe Totec]

5. Water can evaporate and precipitate somewhere else

leaving the salt behind.

Unless the entire surface of Mars is uniformly salty, there's bound to be places where water was more salty or less salty at some point.

[FiveGoodMen]

7. My first thought as well.

Makes you wonder if there's an agenda behind the report.

[librechik]

9. indeed. Don't think about Mars anymore. We've decided it's impossible

even tho common sense indicates it might not be.

So don't even ask about the seasonal color changes for example, and certain odd photos from the Mars orbiters.

Whatever that is, it's not life, so pardon our coverup!

[slackmaster]

6. If Earth's oceans evaporated off, wouldn't the last liquid parts be a thick brine?

:shrug:

[Shoelace]

8. scientist says "they make good points but carry it too far"

"Tosca et al. are making some very good points," writes planetary geochemist Jeffrey Kargel of the University of Arizona, Tucson, in an e-mail, but "they carry it too far." Perhaps early exploration has been drawn to the most saline and therefore most obvious sites, he writes, missing more hospitable places. Microbiologist Kenneth Nealson of the University of Southern California in Los Angeles also holds out hope for life. Faced with greater challenges, martian life may have evolved even better ways to cope with salty water than Earth's microbes have devised. "Keep on following the water" is the message, say these optimists--and the Phoenix lander is doing just that (ScienceNOW, 27 May). Within weeks, it will be analyzing far younger and presumably far fresher water in the martian arctic.

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/529/1

[sutz12]

10. Why now?

With the new lander down and about to make its measurements, why publish this now?

:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

25. Academic publications are often set up months to a year or so in advance

This wasn't someone saying "I'm going to publish this today," this was probably someone who submitted several months ago.

[Javaman]

11. Meh...

After oceanologist found life by the highly toxic volcanic vents in the ocean, I only believe this so much.

Jury is still out for me.

[mikeytherat]

13. Here's a novel idea: let's keep searching, actually FIND THE WATER,

take some samples, analyze them, and THEN debate whether or not said water could have sustained biologic life as we know it.

:shrug:

mikey_the_rat

[Blaq Dem]

15. Maybe it use to be one big urinal left by aliens

[XemaSab]

16. I'm backing up everything said in this thread

Just because the water on Mars was salty doesn't mean that it couldn't have supported life, and it doesn't mean that it wasn't less salty at some earlier point.

There's a whole class of Earth organisms known as extremophiles that live in acid pools, boiling volcanic vents, inside rocks, and similar seemingly inhospitable environments. Just because these creatures are currently rare on Earth doesn't mean they could not have existed in abundance on Mars. It's actually thought (in some schools) that life on Earth may have begun in deep sea volcanic vents or similar harsh environments, making some extremophiles some of the oldest lineages on Earth.

There's a site near me that has bacteria and other organisms living in a pH of down to 0.8. This is similar to the pH of battery acid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_Mine

Good times. :D

[ngant17]

19. there are halophilic species

Halophiles are aerobic microorganisms that live and grow in high saline/salty environments. The saline content in halophilic environments is usually 10 times the saline/salt content of normal ocean water. Normal ocean water has a saline/salt level of 30 percent. The well-known edible cyanobacteria (bluegree algae) Spirulina is a good example, as is Dunaliella.

I would be looking for evidence of green or blue-green algae even in the highly saline waters.

[Peace Patriot]

17. Piffle! How many times do we have to learn that the conditions for life are NOT

limited by what some scientists think is "possible," at any given time--before we start widening the parameters of what we are looking for. Also, who dictates that intelligence life can only evolve from the elements, and in the conditions, of a wet earth--a MINISCULE sampling of the universe and its vast possibilities? Earth is like a grain of sand on a big beach. That's how valid Earth-like conditions are, as a predicter of both life and intelligence elsewhere. It is our ONLY sample. And it is just a teensy bit of evidence, in a vast, vast, vast, vast, for all intents and purposes infinitely VAST universe.

We have NO IDEA how intelligence might evolve, and from what, in that immense and largely mysterious, unknown, unexplored and deeply puzzling environment. Explain macro- and micro-gravity to me, and then maybe I'll respect your opinion of the potential of salty brine to develop life.

[ladjf]

18. In so far as salt in water concentrates as evaporation takes

place, Martian water from earlier times was probably less salty.

[Q3JR4]

20. I totally agree....

For instance you can't expect to find bacteria in acid or boiling water. That's just absurd.

Oh....wait.....no it's not....

F***ing extremophiles!

Q3JR4.

[Duer 157099]

21. You know, if they really wanted to be honest

all they need to do is add a couple of words to their description so that it says what they really mean: "...too salty to support EARTHLING HUMAN life" - I mean because after all, we ARE the center of the universe aren't we???

[Blaq Dem]

24. I think they're trying to find OIL there

Life on Mars doesn't matter.

[TaffyMoon]

23. Just "Life As We Know It", Not Life.

[MilesColtrane]

26. A Great Salt Ocean?

Only a matter of time before we discover the Face on Mars Tabernacle Choir.

[Psephos]

27. very funny! n/t

[Solon]

28. Isn't this kinda like judging all of Earth's oceans on what the the Dead Sea is like?

Its too salty to support life, hence its name, but as we know, salt content varies greatly from place to place on Earth, why would Mars be uniform? It has varied geography, and while smaller than Earth, its not THAT small.

[and-justice-for-all]

29. I thought there were organisms leaving in the Dead Sea? nt