White House Offers No More on Bush Service

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&ncid=536&e=7&u=/ap/20040212/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_military_records

WASHINGTON - The White House hardened its defense of President Bush (news - web sites)'s National Guard service Wednesday, saying his critics are "trolling for trash." Yet, several members of an Alabama unit Bush was assigned to said they couldn't recall ever seeing him.


The Associated Press contacted more than a dozen people who were members of the Montgomery-based 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group in 1972. All were quick to point out that the unit had as many as 800 members and Bush was not yet famous.


Bush, who spent most of his service in Texas, received permission to perform his duties in Alabama while working on a family friend's political campaign.


"I don't remember seeing him. That does not mean he was not here," said Wayne Rambo, who was a first lieutenant with the 187th. "I don't want to cast any aspersions or to say he was or was not there." snip

In a new development Wednesday, a retired Texas National Guard officer said he overheard a conversation in 1997 between then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, and then-Adjutant Gen. Daniel James of the Texas Air National Guard in which he contends those two men spoke about getting rid of any military records that would "embarrass the governor."

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[ewagner]

1. maybe they figured out

that the WH itself was giving the story legs. Had to be Rove to figure it out though...Scott McClelland isn't bright enough.

[Just Me]

43. but, but,..they STOLE the liberuul's label for invaders - "TROLLS" *LOL*!

OMG!!!!

:toast:

They MUST be, like,...really feakin'

:bounce:

[rooboy]

2. Wait for Rove to spin "Bush Served with Rambo..."

"I don't remember seeing him. That does not mean he was not here," said Wayne Rambo...

Bloody Hell. Poor Hannity wouldn't know the difference.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Webster Green]

5. Saw it already....

Looks like bullshit from the Moonies.

[the town crier]

8. it's from

a Retired USAF Colonel who can be traced down to verify his story. Why is it BS?

[Webster Green]

13. It offers general scenarios of what may have happened...

But it doesn't do anything to dispute the charge that the chimp didn't show up for a long period of time, and got away with it because he had "connections".

Also, considering the source, I think its bullshit. The newspaper that is cited as the source is famous for shoveling shit. Check out the Hanoi Jane crappola at the end of the article.

[kskiska]

42. As you guys say

consider the source.

[Zhade]

50. Because it's from a bullshit right-wing source usually full of lies.

Only fools and rightwingers believe The Washington Times actually covers news.

Read David Brock's Blinded By The Right. Quite an eyeopener on the truth behind the rightwing propaganda machine. Brock should be considered a hero for seeing the light and breaking with the traitor-enabling rightwing Republicans.

[grasswire]

9. welcome to DU

Yes, we saw it. There's a whole thread devoted to researching Col. Campenni.

If you know the colonel, perhaps you could ask him when he saw (as he said on FOX today) Bush's Alabama pay stubs and under what circumstances?

How could he possibly have seen those pay stubs, unless perhaps he was part of the "scrub" team that cleansed Bush's record?

Be a sport. Ask Campenni. And get back to us.

[Chico Man]

10. Rebuttal

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=COL.+WILLIAM+CAMPENNI&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=hcik20t6q0etuklc5l0v3i3h1pdes5702j%404ax.com&rnum=7

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chico Man]

12. Is that not a rebuttal?

Care to rebut the rebuttal? Quite a few opinions mixed in there with Campenini's article as well.

IS this not an opinion from Mr. Campenini himself?

> In the fighter-pilot world, we have a phrase we use when things are
>starting to get out of hand and it's time to stop and reset before disaster
>strikes. We say, "Knock it off." So, Mr. Kerry and your friends who want to
>slander the Guard: Knock it off.


At least we know what side of the fence he lies on..

[the town crier]

14. I need to see

a rebutal based on facts from another USAF officer who can refute the article based on expierence with how the National Guard system works. Not the opinions of someone who isn't up to speed on the matter.

[Chico Man]

15. He seems quite up to speed to me.

He points out the many inconsistencies with the article being circulated by folks like yourself.

[the town crier]

16. what are his credentials?

Did he serve in the Guard in any capacity? Does he know how the mission requirements work?

Does michael moore know when he never served a day in his life?

[Chico Man]

17. Who said anything about Michael Moore?

He was just quoting a Boston Globe article from some time ago.

[the town crier]

18. moore is very vocal about this matter

I have seen several posters on this forum credit him for bringing this to light.

[Chico Man]

19. And he credits the Boston Globe

Moore certainly helped get the word out.

[Skittles]

48. I'm a veteran

and I don't believe you need to have served in the military to bring to light the fact that our so-called "president" is an warmongering, AWOL, cowardly piece of SHIT.

[Robb]

20. The guy never served with * in Alabama...

This is the issue. And none of the dozens of people the AP contacted who were in the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group in 1972 remembered him either.

Oh, welcome to DU. :eyes:

[the town crier]

22. what does * mean?

why do alotof posters use * ?

[Flubadubya]

23. .

[Magleetis]

27. LMAO

Too funny

[Chico Man]

24. Because Bush will go down in the books

With an * next to his name.

Won the Presidency by the vote of a Republican-majority supreme court.

Lost the popular vote by many thousands of votes.

And some very odd things happened in Florida that have not yet been explained..

[Wickerman]

37. Its a reference to the legitimacy of the selected pResident

Much as Roger Maris (sp) was not given due credit for breaking Babe Ruth's home run record (he played in more games per season than Ruth, so there will always be an asterisk next to his name) so shall Bush* always have the same as he was not elected by the popular vote or even the electoral college but was selected by the SCOTUS. And welcome to DU - may stay be long and fruitful.

[radfringe]

62. * refers to

bush being SELECTED not ELECTED

similar to Maris having a star after his name in baseball record books

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2001-04-25/2001-04-25-special61.htm

The home run chase also moved Commissioner Ford Frick, who once served as Ruth"s ghostwriter, to decree that an asterisk was to attach to Maris' record of 61 homers because baseball that year had expanded from a 154-game season to 162.

[54anickel]

21. As is your retired col. just an opinion. Doesn't answer the questions.

[the town crier]

25. opinion?

He is pointing out how the Guard attendance system worked. He pointed out that he DID know George Bush when he was in the Guard. He expalained the mission of F-102 Guard pilots during the war. To defend American skys from the Soviet nucular threat.

That is not opinion. It is facts from a man who was there.

[Chico Man]

26. In 72-73?

[54anickel]

28. It is also filled with opinions. Mostly it doesn't answer the questions

asked at the press conference

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=359003

[the town crier]

29. so the colonel's story is to be discarded as BS?

n/t

[Chico Man]

32. It does not address the years 1972 and 1973

Where was he then.

[the town crier]

33. but he got an honorable discharge

can you get one if you were awol?

[Chico Man]

36. I most likely could if I were a spoiled son of a Congressman

[54anickel]

41. Now I didn't see that mentioned in the letter. I thought you were

asking about the letter?

[PaDUer]

52. Sure can...

all it takes is to screw up the paperwork and bingo, honorable discharge!

[niceypoo]

58. Only if Daddy is head of the CIA

Then, yes, you can get one

[54anickel]

34. Did I say it's BS? I said it's filled with opinions and doesn't answer

the questions.

[the town crier]

38. Im just not sure which story to believe

im just trying to make sense of this matter

[Robb]

40. No, you're not. nt

[Lorien]

45. No use feeding it

[calimary]

55. Well, if you are, just keep in mind this guy went on about

his recollections of THE YEARS 1970 and 1971, and in the TEXAS Air National Guard. He doesn't address, or shed light upon, the times and places that are under suspicion here - THE YEARS 1972 and 1973 - and in ALABAMA, NOT TEXAS. He can talk all he wants about the years in Texas. It's the "where was bush during the Alabama years" that is the problem. A problem still unaddressed.

[Oilwellian]

54. Are you ready to cry?

Since you have so much respect for Lt. Colonels in the Air National Guard, perhaps you'd like to read what this one has to say:

Retired National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett said Tuesday that in 1997, then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, told the National Guard chief to get the Bush file and make certain "there's not anything there that will embarrass the governor."

Col. Burkett said that a few days later at Camp Mabry in Austin, he saw Mr. Bush's file and documents from it discarded in a trash can. He said he recognized the documents as retirement point summaries and pay forms.

Bush aides denied any destruction of records in Mr. Bush's personnel file. "The charges are just flat-out not true," said Dan Bartlett, White House communications director.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/021104dnpolguard.b4fed.html

[leesa]

57. Before the missing months. Jeez how many times do people need to point

this out to you??

[andy12]

61. lucky for US Russia wasn't aware that the US Mainland was

protected by the likes of Commander AWOL.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. Did 'ya see this?

Alabama commander regrets Bush comments :puke:

[pinniped]

6. "trolling for trash"...

and they found it in the WH.

[notadmblnd]

7. Funny choice of words really

"trolling for trash."

It was posted in another thread that trashed is exactly happened to the papers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=358748&mesg_id=358748


See, he doesn't lie, you just have to take him literally.

[Poiuyt]

49. I was thinking human trash myself!

That's what they all are

[pinto]

30. no more Bush service unless it's community service.

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[MidwestTransplant]

35. Here's something that nobody pointed out yet I don't think

Since GW Bush was a congressman at the time, EVERY senior officer at the base in AL would know that a Congressman's son was coming on base and that they should look out for him.

[the town crier]

39. GW Bush was a congressman or

GHW Bush?

[MidwestTransplant]

46. Sorry GHW Bush

[kath]

53. Actually, by 1973 GHW Bush was Ambassador to the UN, plus head

of the RNC.
(not sure exactly when these appointments were made)

[NNN0LHI]

44. Texas Air National Guard - A Refuge for the Privileged

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24423-2004Feb8.html

The earnest, fresh-faced spokesmen for the White House expressed shock at the view that the National Guard was ever made up of draft dodgers {"Bush's Military Record Defended," news story, Feb. 4}.

However, any man who was of draft age during the Cold War, and particularly during Vietnam, knows that the Guard was a refuge from the rice paddies for the well-connected.

As the Web site for the 49th Armored Division (Texas National Guard) delicately puts it: "Following World War II, the draft motivated enlistments through 1972; young men joined the guard to avoid interruption of their daily life for active duty."

The waiting list was measured in years. To bypass the waiting list, not only in Texas but in almost every Guard unit in the country, required "pull." George W. Bush's Air National Guard unit included the sons of Democratic Sen. Lloyd Bentsen, Republican Sen. John Tower and several Dallas Cowboys.

more

[Judi Lynn]

47. Delighted to get a chance to read this article, after hearing about it

earlier.

It's WONDERFUL. :hi:

[tableturner]

51. Crier, being paid and serving are not necessarily the same thing...

That's why we want all the Bush Guard records released as promised by Bush to Russert Sunday. From a column in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27178-2004Feb9.html

"For two years or so, I played a perfectly legal form of hooky. To show you what a mess the Guard was at the time, I even got paid for all the meetings I missed."

[reprobate]

59. The White House problem is there ARE no records.

They were scrubbed by his staff when he was governor. We can demand his records all we want and they will never be able to show them. That's gotta say something to the people.

[leesa]

56. That's it? Pictures of his teeth in Alabama?

[Oilwellian]

60. Here's a good graphic of Bush's record

Thanks to Amen1234 in another thread:

http://www.wischepp.com/AWOLBush.htm

[scarface2004]

63. quick look in the trash...

where they threw 'embarrasing' records!!

[dusty64]

64. This pretty much sums

it up. They are simply going to ignore it and hope it goes away, hey its worked for them so far. Now its up to the opposition to hammer away and NOT let go, this would be a great time to bring up ALL the other scandals in chimp's past. They need to pop this false idea that he is a "moral and glorious leader". Keep at it!