Austrian Holocaust denier sentenced to five years in jail

[sabra]

Source: Haaretz/DPA

Notorious Austrian Holocaust denier Gerd Honsik was sentenced to five years in prison Monday by a Vienna court that found him guilty of spreading National Socialist ideology.

While living in Spain from the early 1990s to evade a previous Austrian prison sentence, the neo-Nazi had continued to publish National Socialist ideology in a magazine and other venues.

"He is one of the ideological leaders of the neo-Nazi scene," prosecutor Stefan Apostol said Friday, alleging that Honsik had also passed out his publications at schools.

Both the prosecution and the defendant plan to appeal the verdict and sentence, Austrian press agency APA reported.

The 67-year-old defendant said he rejects "the doctrine which demonizes National Socialism," but claimed he was not a National Socialist himself.

Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1081556.html

[LostinVA]

1. Good n/t

[Starry Messenger]

2. Excellent news. n/t

[Leftist Agitator]

3. That's fucked up.

Five years for making unpopular, controversial statements?

Thank God I live in a country that still values freedom of speech.

[LostinVA]

24. Thank God you didn't live in Europe during teh Holocaust

Only those who did, imo, can really codemn laws against Holocaust Denial.

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. The Nazis weren't big on free speech either

[roguevalley]

36. assuming you live in America in this century (I know. Go with me here) , you weren't around

to see the Holocaust happen like they did since you probably aren't eighty. Our Holocaust- the Native American one- is not in our minds because we don't talk about it, we didn't stand here and see it happen, participate in it. I don't have a problem with this outcome. I didn't see the Holocaust, feel it nor dream about it at night. They have. They can have their laws. any fucker wants to go to their country and shoot off his mouth, trying to incite violence is asking for it. They know what they are doing.

[marshall]

39. When will we start jailing 9/11 conspiracy theorists?

It's the wave of the future.

[ironrooster]

4. as much as I find the statements of holocaust deniers odious...

I find even more disturbing the locking up for someone for
their speech/writing.

Anyway, by punishing people like this - they are made into martyrs.

Remember when the Repugs talked about jailing Dems for speaking
against the Iraq war?

No matter how absurd his statements are/were - it should be protected speech -
UNLESS he is directly encouraging the killing of such and such a
person or people - as in an incitement to riot or genocide.

[paulsby]

8. we are about the last nation on earth that doesn't criminalize hate speech

and that protects odious speech.

good for us.

it's part of TRUE freedom.

our system recognizes that when it comes to digesting speech, the people are sovereign. no govt. can step in and dictate what we can say.

i took a hate crimes investigator class and we had some canadian and british cops in the class. they were amazed at how much freedom our citizens had in regards to speech.

we are about the only nation left

[X_Digger]

9. I'm reminded of the quote..

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire

[izquierdista]

10. I'm not impressed

Freedom of speech is of little value when marketing and the MSM can turn your "TRUE freedom" into the ravings of a lunatic. Dennis Kucinich was free to speak his mind in the Democratic primaries last year. What is of more value is freedom to be taken seriously, like being free to marry whomever you please (4 down, 46 to go).

I guess the powers that be still allow freedom of speech because as the saying goes, "talk is cheap" and there is not a buck to be made in restricting it.

[paulsby]

11. i'm impressed

it's a way in which we are clearly superior (tm).

i note many here in DU will jump all over the US when comparing it to other countries in terms of our shortcomings but never give credit where it is due in terms of our +'s

in regards to freedom of speech, we lead the world.

for fuck's sake, it's the 21st century - internet ,etc.

there has never been greater access to speech for the common man (tm) than we have now.

never.

we have access to more information than we ever did, more opposing viewpoints, and we have greater opportunity to speak our minds in diverse fora for others to hear.

you have a typical "yea but" attitude. "yea, but " and then bring up marriage equality.

we clearly are lagging in terms of marriage equality, but that's not what i was talking about

free speech matters.

for pete's sake, france FINED a woman for daring to criticize islam (bardot).

we don't have that crap here

bully for us.

[Hugabear]

12. I'm sure that Matthew Shephard appreciates hate speech also

The problem with allowing hate speech to go unchecked is that often times it leads to violence and death.

[paulsby]

13. words didn't kill shephard

actions did.

i will gladly live with the "problem" that sometimes free speech leads to bad actions.

that's the cost of living in a free society.

not to mention that criminalizing speech gives the state WAY too much power.

[Hugabear]

16. No, but hate-filled words surely help create an atmosphere where violence is acceptable

Sorry, but I just have a very real problem thinking that it's perfectly okay for people to say stuff like "homosexuals should be put to death" and "kill all fags".

[paulsby]

17. and free speech

allows people to counter bad speech with good speech

that's how it works in a FREE society.

and we're about the last one left.

[LostinVA]

26. Yes, they did

Just as "Mein Kampf" killed Jews.

[paulsby]

35. rubbish

mein kampf is still around. it has no power beyond that that PEOPLE give it's ideas.

yours is the argument that every tyrant uses to suppress our fundamental freedoms.

we recognize in the US (unlike most other nations) that the best disinfectant is openness. that the best response to bad speech is good speech

[geek tragedy]

19. Some ideas and ideologies are too dangerous

to be permitted to enter public debate.

Germany has decided that 'never again' means something.

[Irreverend IX]

21. Dangerous ideas...

You mean like "No Iraq War" and "Impeach Bush?"

[geek tragedy]

43. No, like Nazism and genocide as state policy. n/t

[LostinVA]

25. Those devastated by the Holocaust have a right to enact these laws, imo

[Vidar]

5. Good place for him.

[ironrooster]

6. will it be a good place for you

when some reich wing regime decides what you are saying is dangerous?

We all want to see bad people punished - but his crime appears to be one

of speech/writing and not in deed.

Wanna punish thought crimes? - Hey everybody stand up!

I think putting people in jail for historical inaccuracy is bullshit!

[Michigan-Arizona]

7. Very well stated ironrooster!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Canuckistanian]

14. There are some countries that punish hate speech. And they do it for a reason.

You can sit back in your easy chair and pontificate about "free speech at any cost", but for European countries, it's much closer to home.

Almost any European can name someone in their family that DIED because of Nazi ideology, either as a victim or as a "true believer". It's a VERY sensitive subject to this day.

Don't forget that Hitler and his legions THRIVED on their "free speech" when they formed the Brownshirt movement. Nobody arrested them for fomenting violence. But by then it was too late.

And for the record, hate speech is a crime in Canada, too. We've prosecuted a handful of people under VERY strict rules.
You don't get to threaten violence on an entire class of people - not overtly nor covertly. Period.

[paulsby]

18. you are right

france has prosecuted people for saying (god forbid) mean things about muslims (see bardot).

the UK has the race relations act.

etc.

you are correct that canada doesn't have free speech either, and holocaust denial will get you in hot water there.

[Irreverend IX]

22. The Nazis burned books by the ton...

I don't think that constitutes "thriving on free speech." I'll take free speech over a country like yours, with a kangaroo hate crime court that's never lost a case, any day. Narrow, clearly-defined restrictions on speech have a remarkable tendency to broaden and blur over time. I wonder how long it'll take Canada to ban "hate speech" against the government.

[X_Digger]

23. They'll call it 'sedition'..

Sedition -noun 1. incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government.

Sad how many of our own party want to go down that road again.

[Canuckistanian]

31. Sure they burned books. AFTER they got in power

And a "kangaroo hate crime court"? :wtf: This is Canada we're talking about here, not Alabama.

We still have a functioning justice system and a Charter of Rights that clearly defines the role of Government and citizen's rights. AND a Supreme Court to decide where to draw the line.

Look, this is just a "fire in a crowded theater" argument, not a black and white issue.

NOBODY has carte blanche in the USA to say or do whatever the Hell they want. There are laws against death threats, slander, obscenities, etc.

This is just where WE decide to draw the line.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

28. 100% right

[Vidar]

20. This was in Austria--Hitler's birthplace. The rules are different.

[LostinVA]

27. As Is aid upthread, they have a right to make laws about Holocaust denial

[cali]

34. different context

we weren't devastated by the holocaust. Germany and other European countries were. And this has fuck all to do with "historical inacurracy". I find it very interesting that you put it in such blatantly false terms.
that said, I support the first amendment.

[SpartanDem]

15. DU has been in a tizzy about upholding the Constitution

,so I don't understand how people can seriously advocate for limiting peoples free speech. It's nanny state liberal thinking like this that gives us a bad name

[LostinVA]

29. "nanny state liberal thinking"

Oh brother.

:eyes:

[Regret My New Name]

37. Must be the same "nanny state liberal thinking" that prevents same sex marraiges.

[dustbunnie]

33. Funny how Holocaust denial will get you jail time - encouraging more of same is allowed.

As evidenced by the latest spate of anti-Israel protesting where chants and sign slogans like "bring back the ovens" or "Hitler should have finished you off" were just fine with people all over Europa.

[CTLawGuy]

38. proof that the anti-holocaust denial laws

aren't very effective.

[Dr. Strange]

40. I'd say it's proof that the governments will use the laws selectively...

which is one of the biggest problems I have with these kinds of laws.

[CTLawGuy]

42. I concur with that

NT

[GetTheRightVote]

41. I was watching the movie Brave Heart then other day...."Freedom"

One word really does say it all "Freedom". This nation was built upon it, "Freedom".
Even within the the boundaries of the general welfare it raises above it, "Freedom".
So it must raise above even the most evil acts of human beings, "Freedom" or it truly means nothing.

And so I raise it up in this chat once more "Freedom" against all that would re-frame it for us, we the people. This word means more then any other be it Nazi, Holocaust, or even our own 911 or it means nothing, "Freedom". The Jews are not the only group of people to have faced a Holocaust either for every day in the news there are more and more reports on present day examples of it where "Freedom" has been lost to a nation's civilians. Their "Freedoms" were taken from them up to the point of life lost.

So like it or not, if the only harm Gerd Honsik has done is to speak words then he should be able to speak them in the name of all "Freedoms" or it truly does mean nothing. You can not as a nation have it both ways. I will cry in the name of and push against all evil actions but I will not give up my right to be FREE to read, to write, to demonstrate, etc or they have taken more then our lives, they have taken our principles our values from us. That which makes us who we are as a people and as a nation. To keep them we must then extend them to all that would use even against us even though we hate the speaker or writer. They must be sacred for all.

Some of the people of Germany gave up their 'rights of freedom' for Hitler and his SS party so without them true evil rose around and among them. It was with the lose of "Freedom" that Hitler was able to push his agenda not by holding it as a most valued principle. Just think about it without emotions of revenge, etc. and it must be recognized in its importance so much so that our fore fathers fought and dead for it, "Freedom".

:kick: