Key Figures in Global Battle Against Illegal Arms Trade Lost in Air France Crash

[Richard D]

Source: The Sunday Herald via Common Dreams

ARGENTINA: Argentine campaigner Pablo Dreyfus and Swiss colleague Ronald Dreyer battled South American arms and drug trafficking

by Andrew McLeod

AMID THE media frenzy and speculation over the disappearance of Air France's ill-fated Flight 447, the loss of two of the world's most prominent figures in the war on the illegal arms trade and international drug trafficking has been virtually overlooked.

Pablo Dreyfus
Pablo Dreyfus, a 39-year-old Argentine who was travelling with his wife Ana Carolina Rodrigues aboard the doomed flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, had worked tirelessly with the Brazilian authorities to stem the flow of arms and ammunition that for years has fuelled the bloody turf wars waged by drug gangs in Rio's sprawling favelas.

Also travelling with Dreyfus on the doomed flight was his friend and colleague Ronald Dreyer, a Swiss diplomat and co-ordinator of the Geneva Declaration on Armed Violence who had worked with UN missions in El Salvador, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Kosovo and Angola. Both men were consultants at the Small Arms Survey, an independent think tank based at Geneva's Graduate Institute of International Studies. The Survey said on its website that Dryer had helped mobilise the support of more than 100 countries to the cause of disarmament and development.

<snip>

According to the International Action Network on Small Arms Control (IANSA), Dreyfus's work was instrumental in the introduction of landmark small arms legislation in Brazil in 2003. Under this legislation, an online link was created between army and police databases listing production, imports and exports of arms and ammunition in Brazil.

Read more: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/06/07

[xxqqqzme]

1. well, well, well, interesting to say the least.

[Baby Snooks]

2. It is...

The one news agency that reported the bomb threat in Buenos Aires just days before pulled the report but didn't realize it had been cached. Otherwise we would never have known about it.

It is possible that it was both a tragic accident AND a bomb in which case someone may have wasted a bomb. The indications are that it was not the bomb that caused the problems at least initially.

But then who is to say a bomb didn't go off before the pilot was able to stablize the plane?

I doubt we will ever know unless they manage to locate the black box but even that may not tell us what happened. The recordings might not be able to distinguish the difference between structural disintegration as a result of turbulence and structural disintegration as the result of a bomb exploding.

One thing is for certain. Had that one report of the bomb threat not been cached, it is doubtful that Air France would have ever acknowledged it. So anything Air France says is questionable.

[nc4bo]

3. It certainly is. nt

[glinda]

6. No... CONVENIENT .... to say the least.

[annabanana]

4. My guess is that neither of them were in Brasil cozying up to

dangerous powerful people.. . .

[The Doctor.]

5. Does it ever seem that one side may not be following the rules?

Just thinkin'.

[blm]

12. Standard Operating Procedure for BFEE.....

.

[troubledamerican]

13. Are you saying it's odd that only progressives & Democrats get killed? Not true. Ratio is 2000:1.

Let's not forget about George Wallace & Barbara "I cell phoned from an airplane on 9/11 before that was technologically possible" Olsen.

So you see, there are occasional Republicans that die in plane crashes or assassinations. O-c-c-a-s-i-o-n-a-l.

[Wednesdays]

17. Wow, the whole 9/11 plot was in order to bump off Barb Olsen

The twin towers and the Pentagon was just incidental damage.

They should think of that the next time a dem or progressive is targeted...don't just settle for a mere plane wreck--take out some buildings while you're at it!

[defendandprotect]

25. Barbara Olsen may have been 9/11's Martha Mitchell???

It's unlikely any plane flew into the Pentagon --

20' X 15' round holes with no external debris don't work well for

44' high planes!!

In all likelihood Pentagon was internal explosions -- simultaneous with a flyover.

Also looks like WTC towers were scheduled to come down . . . but by being dismantled...

no demolition permitted!

Big problems with the towers from asbestos, etc.

Big problems with WTC7 -- it held SEC records, Enron evidence -- etal --

All three films from Pentagon and areas nearby -- NO PLANE -- just explosions.

[karynnj]

32. This is complete nonsense

The WTC towers were NOT scheduled for demolition. The towers were rented out and maintained.

The fact is that a plane did hit the pentagon and more people, other than Olsen were lost.

[The Doctor.]

51. Absolutely correct.

Those towers were not scheduled for demolition at all.

Imagine what that would have cost!

No, no one would ever have considered scheduling such a demolition right after taking out a multi-billion dollar insurance policy on those buildings. What insurance company would ever pay up on a policy after the buildings were intentionally demolished?

You pretty much nailed this one.

Good job!

[karynnj]

52. Insurance policy or not, he LOST money

Why did he just buy insurance, he just bought the building from the Port Authority. Note that the towers have still not been replaced - and that they were profitable before they were destroyed.

Your condescension is ridiculous as is your idiotic conspiracy theory.

[The Doctor.]

53. I have no "Conspiracy Theory". Your flailing is amusing though.

What I have are questions that are legitimate, and the only truly rational position on the entire issue;

"I don't know."

In fact, no one but whoever perpetrated the attacks really knows.

I know that you don't know. You simply can't, neither can I.

From what we know, he did, in fact, get a higher insurance settlement than what he paid for the lease. So it's kind of odd watching someone lash out the way you have.

The point I made was rather valid. Those buildings were a liability and would have eventually cost a fortune in refits or demolition. It's not a 'conspiracy theory' to point out that collecting on an insurance policy while the government paid for the clean-up was Silverstein's best case scenario.

It's just a simple fact.

[The Doctor.]

50. So.... it's more likely, in your opinion, that a giant conspiracy would be orchestrated to kill one

person, than one person might play a part in a conspiracy?

Either way... it's just plain silly.

[defendandprotect]

24. What Republican president has been assassinated . . . , ?

George Wallace -- was contesting Nixon . . . "was" . . .

Bobby Kennedy

MLK, Jr.

Hertitage Foundation .. ?

Operation Rescue . .?

And presume you are counting the dozens of CIA assassinations of liberal leaders

around the world . . .??

How about Operation Gladio?

Rather, Allen Dulles saved Nazi intelligence and used them to found the CIA --

funneled them into the FBI -- USIA -- Werner von Braun headed NASA!!

How many Repugs in Congress were sent Anthrax?

Come on . . . .

:eyes:

[troubledamerican]

29. You misread my comment. My comment was sardonic. I agree with you, clearly.

There are little to almost no examples of right-wingers being killed.

If you re-read my post, you'll even see that I don't even buy into Olsen being killed. Read closely.

If you research about the Weimar Republic between WWI & Hitler's ascent, you'll find that there was an actual program of targeted assassinations of left-wing politicians. I'd post links here but that would get me banned. No joke. Research Dave Emory's WFMU archives for mp3s.

[24601]

35. Did you ever look at how Lincoln ran the country, locking

up opponents, habeas corpus suspended, wiretapping the telegraph without warrants, etc.

Makes Bush look like a piker....

[troubledamerican]

37. There's a big difference between Lincoln & Bush. Here it is.

Lincoln did not believe in the "Unitary Executive" where all checks & balances or separation of powers was thrown out the window.

Lincoln followed Washington's advice on torture: Torture is treason. Don't do it.

Lincoln did not have a Stalinist purge of federal prosecutors for political consolidation.

Lincoln did not use the Civil War as an excuse to seek political advantage for his party's "permanent majority status" as Rove wanted.

I could go on and on. Election fraud, elevated terror threat levels, international aggression, throwing out treaties, threatening the world...

No, Lincoln does not make Bush "look like a piker".

[nolabels]

45. I think his name started with an 'A'

Lemme guess, you were thinking more recent :yoiks:

[Art_from_Ark]

49. George Wallace wasn't assassinated--

he survived an assassination attempt. I don't know if you could really say he was contesting Nixon, since he had taken far more votes away from Humphrey in '68, costing Humphrey 5 Southern states outright and siphoning off enough votes from Humphrey in other states like Florida, Virginia, and Missouri (maybe even California) to deliver those states to Nixon. In '72, he might have been getting in Nixon's way, since Nixon was going after the former Wallace voters.

[2Design]

7. well - we have motive now n/t

[defendandprotect]

23. I'll say . . . the two biggest businesses in the world . . .ARMS 'n DRUGS . . .

[4lbs]

8. I don't think a bomb or missile took out the plane. Otherwise we'd be seeing much more wreckage

than just 5 bodies.

Remember when the US Navy accidentally shot down that Iranian airliner and killed 300 people? There were bodies, wreckage, and luggage spread out all over the ocean.

If anything, the plane went down and hit the water almost intact.

[rfranklin]

9. On the other hand, a very small explosive device properly placed...

could make the plane descend uncontrollably at a rapid speed and enter the water like a torpedo.

[4lbs]

10. Possible. However, some analysts were interviewed and said that this particular model of plane has

an external speed sensor that could have frozen, in the icy rainstorm clouds as the plane was flying through. Or it could have failed another way. That would cause the displayed speed to be less than actual, causing the pilots to think the plane was slowing down. They would have increased the speed to try to compensate.

Combine that with the autopilot mechanism on the plane being nonfunctional and that could spell disaster. A plane flying too fast in a storm, with high crosswinds, could be blown off course and spin out of control.

It's similar to when you are driving 60+ mph in the middle of high winds. Crosswinds, or swirling winds, would cause your vehicle to buffet all over the place.

[groundloop]

11. Don't read too much into the autopilot being off

Now I've got no direct knowledge of the Airbus, but in the planes I've flown we were taught to turn off the autopilot if we ever got into a storm. An autopilot would try to maintain altitude, and with strong updrafts would have to let the speed radically build up to do that. The idea is to maintain a level flight attitude, keep the airspeed where it's supposed to be, and just ride out any updrafts and downdrafts.

Even if the pitot had iced up (which is possible but it would have had heating elements in it and I doubt that the pilots would have forgot to turn on pitot heat) that wouldn't render the plane unflyable. It certainly would have added a level of difficulty to an already difficult situation, but wouldn't bring the plane down. I've had to land once with a pitot that got plugged by bugs, not fun but it wasn't a real big deal - just use the same power setting and attitude as always and it works out.

At this point it's impossible to say what happened, but with every little tidbit of infomration that comes out the press will certainly be jumping to a new conclusion.

[nichomachus]

41. As I understand it

one thing they're concerned about is a discrepancy in airspeed readings among the various instruments, not just the pitot tubes -- and the procedure that the pilot might have followed to compensate for that.

This apparently has caused problems with other Airbus planes. This is probably why Airbus sent out the emergency advisory to all customers the other day, reiterating the proper procedure to follow in the case of disparate readings. And, as you said, the proper procedure is to keep on doing what you were doing -- until you troubleshoot.

The media doesn't like unanswered questions and they do have a tendency to treat every bit of information as THE answer.

It could have been something as simple as a structural failure -- like the AA flight in 2001 that lost its stabilizer over NYC and plunged to the ground -- or the AA DC10 that lost an engine on takeoff in Chicago in 1979. The engine separated as it was designed to, but took control lines with it and caused the plane to rotate beyond 90 degrees and crash. These things happen and become more likely when the plane is subjected to extreme forces -- like the 100 mph updraft caused by this storm.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. At what altitude...

was the plane the Navy shot down? If an aircraft breaks up at 40k feet, the wreckage will scatter quite a bit.

[nichomachus]

40. Much different ocean

The Air France jet went down in a powerful storm in water that is up to 22,000 feet deep with tremendous currents. This is a lot different than where the Iranian jet went down -- on a clear day in broad daylight -- in 200 to 300 feet of water.

I'm not saying it was a missile. I'm not even saying it was a bomb, but if it were, a small explosive device that ruptured the fuselage and damaged control systems wouldn't have blown up the entire plane -- simply caused it to crash intact, although given the various forces on it, it's possible it could have broken up in midair.

By the way, the crew of the ship that shot down the Iranian passenger jet received Combat Action Ribbons and the Captain got the Legion of Merit.

And, I believe that now they have recovered more bodies and some large parts of the plane.

[960]

14. hmmmm

[President Decider]

15. This whole tragedy is appearing very suspect as some type of cover up ....

I think those in high places know EXACTLY what happened to this aircraft.

[ecstatic]

28. Before they got one shred of evidence they quickly eliminated the idea

of a bomb being the cause... yet they have no idea WTF happened... so how can they rule something out when they don't even have the black box???

[Ghost Dog]

31. My gut-feeling too.

The media-feed just doesn't ring quite true, as if there were some interference from somewhere.

[Gman]

16. One more thing that points to a bomb blast

with the obvious point being the plane broke apart. Airbus planes don't just break apart in a thunderstorm. THey may crash in a thunderstorm as many planes have. They don't break apart (i.e. catastrophic hull failure) in a storm.

[Pavulon]

21. No airplane has EVER boken up in midflight. this is like the second coming..

[Ghost Dog]

38. Ah, a De Havilland Comet, isn't it?

Had a parachute come out of its tail for runway breaking, shuttle-style, I remember my father explaining after another hairy landing at Orly (whose company tipped the blades of those and many other turbines).

Almost spelt the end of the jet age, so I heard, before lessons were learned and problems fixed.

As for BOAC, well, that's mostly the stuff of mythology now.

[trthnd4jstc]

18. Imagine That. Think HAARP Program. Electromagnetic Waveforms Can Effect our Physical World in a

variety of ways, including causing Earthquakes, Heart Attacks, Confusion, Diarrhea, and for Electronics Equipment to Malfunction. It is, unfortunately, quite easy to cause Mayhem. Also, who is to know that the Plane was not Shot Down?

[Pavulon]

20. Wow..

you guys are out of control.

[defendandprotect]

26. So true, so true . . .

[defendandprotect]

27. How many Americans don't even know about HAARP?

[ConcernedCanuk]

43. most

.
.
.

[Pavulon]

44. HARP with the dead bull or the bullshit haarp?(nt)

[Robeson]

19. How fortuitous...

...for arms merchants and drug traffickers, that is.

[Dogmudgeon]

30. Before invoking HAARP, secret assassination squads, the Illiuminati, etc ...

... why don't we exercise a little patience and see what the investigations turn up?

The French are not slouches when it comes to safety. If anything, they are more fanatical than the USA is.

After the data come out, THEN it may be the right time to question the circumstances of the crash, and the conclusions of the investigation.

--d!

[MicaelS]

33. So true.....

Amazing how so many members of the "reality based community" are so quick to jump to fantastic explanations for bad things that happen.

[babythunder]

48. Wait so you think a new and advanced plane

breaking up in mid-flight is not a "fantastic explanation" you don't have to be an expert to realize that planes are designed to deal with unpredictable/bad weather. Furthermore, the plane hasn't even been found the authorities are already speculating on the cause when the supposedly have very little information themselves.

[Baclava]

39. Agreed. Now we're sending in our Navy technology to help.

RECIFE, Brazil – Brazilian divers found a large tail section from an Air France jet on Monday, one of the biggest pieces yet recovered from wreckage that is helping narrow the search for Flight 447's black boxes. A U.S. Navy team is bringing in high-tech underwater listening devices to detect pings from the data and voice recorders.

Two U.S. Navy devices that can detect emergency beacons to a depth of 20,000 feet (6,100 meters) are being flown to Brazil with a Navy team, according to the Pentagon. They will be delivered to ships that will then listen for transmissions from the black boxes, which are programmed to emit signals for at least 30 days.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/647264

[babythunder]

47. You do realize that if a cover-up is involved

then most likely the possibility of truth coming out will be next to nil? I mean that is the whole point of covering something up. They plane had barely been missing for 24 hours before the French Government was announcing that it was unlikely that they would recover the black boxes.

[leveymg]

34. Still not convinced that this was caused by iced pitot tubes

It's hard to imagine a modern airliner at cruising altitude going down due to weather. Possible. But, hard to imagine.

[hedgehog]

36. Given the number of people on board, what are the odds that any such flight

would not have someone important on board? In a room of 30 people, the odds are almost certain that two of them will have the same birthday. I think we're looking a similar phenomenon here. Important people travel on international flights.

[happydreams]

59. Are you suggesting not to investigate this line of inquiry further??

[Omar4Dems]

42. Weird, indeed.

Thanks for this info!

[WhiteTara]

46. now we know why the plane went down n/t

[dysfunctional press]

54. most likely because the pilot was flying too fast for conditions and the plane broke up.

nt

[WhiteTara]

55. ah, right. synchonicity

my favorite. I used to believe; but, I'm too old to click my heels three times, anymore.

[dysfunctional press]

57. apparently not too old to believe the tripe you see in movies...

yes- it's entirely more likely that the drug cartel super-bosses probably used their weather generating technology to create the massive thunderstorms to cover up the bombing...:eyes:

[Prometheus Bound]

56. If I knew someone like that was on my flight, I believe I'd wait for the next flight.

I mean they're working against some of the most powerful and ruthless people on earth.

[happydreams]

58. With Dupont being a key munitions company combined with

them being the biggest aircraft maintenance provider and having a history of ruthlessness--they were key figures in the FDR coup attempt--we have means and motive.

note: for any of you fuckheads who think this is too far fetched don't even reply to my post. Your ignorance makes any intelligent discussion impossible.