Army considers middle-school JROTC program

[unhappycamper]

Source: Army Times / Associated Press

Army considers middle-school JROTC program
The Associated Press
Posted : Monday Oct 12, 2009 14:51:19 EDT

WICHITA, Kan. — The U.S. Army wants middle school students.

The Wichita school district in south-central Kansas is one of a few nationwide offering middle school programs based on the Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps curriculum. Top Army officials are studying its programs to see if they could be a model for others nationwide.

The Army is collaborating with the National Association of School Boards to develop a so-called JROTC-plus program that would use the high school JROTC curriculum as a basis for a middle school program, Army JROTC director Col. John Vanderbleek said.

“We want to reach students at that age before they make decisions that put them at risk,” said Vanderbleek, who came to Wichita recently from Fort Monroe, Va., to see the Kansas program for himself.

Read more: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/10/ap_army_jrotc_middle_school_101209/

---

After they suck the blood out of Kansas and Oklahoma, they're coming for your kids.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Easier to brainwash at that age.

Good military thinking!

:sarcasm:

[liberalmike27]

21. spot-on

As the military, and conservative rhetoric further encroaches on everything. Brainwashing is already massively prevalent in the corporate media, television and the radio. Might as well add a bit of it in schools, as so many abandon the previous sources of mental manipulation of the masses.

[Froward69]

31. Um I have a diffrent take.

First Middle school is a bit young.
second my JROTC experience was in HS, three years worth. Two summers I got out of the city and got to go camping at Ft Carson CO.

I learned how to read a Map, Use a compass and basic leadership.
I was On the Honor guard, So I went to every tenth NBA (nuggets)game and presented the colors for the national anthem.
I was on the drill team and got to travel across state lines to competitions.

and yes I was on the Rifle team. I learned sight picture and trigger control.
That last bit was my FIRST lesson in relaxation therapy. Controlling my breathing and calming myself down.

frankly had I never learned that I would be hypertensive today.

its not all huntin' and Killin.

[no_hypocrisy]

47. No it isn't bad. Much virtue in your experience.

My doubts are about the motivations and direction of the training, meaning recruitment. There's volunteer and then there's pressure and coercion. And starting them to trust authority figures without question at such an age concerns me. Not everyone has your experience is all I'm saying.

[crim son]

61. +1

If I believed the military was motivated by the desire to give our youth relaxation training, I'd be all over this proposition. But that's not the case and whatever good comes of jrROTC (and there IS good), is it worth the risk of making our kids more vulnerable to brainwashing and more comfortable with a military outlook? I believe definitely not. My daughter took on the military recruitment folks when she was in High School, demanding to be allowed to distribute military-alternative fliers on the same day that the military distributed pro-recruitment fliers. She was refused and when she pushed the matter, the decision was made to stop distributing any information whatsoever, rather than presenting a "fair and balanced" picture of what it means to join the american armed forces. She graduated last year and I am curious to see that now that my powerhouse of a daughter isn't there to put up the good fight, will things revert back to what they were before she attended. My point: ROTC training isn't about improving your kids' lives, it's about improving recruitment numbers, period.

[MetaTrope]

41. Taking our cue from Somalia

[Kceres]

2. Sick.

AS the mom of a middle school boy, this is nuts. Boys are so impressionable at this age and still, for the most part, sweet and sensitive. Going through adolescence is hard enough. This bothers me on so many levels. Not only would I not want my child in a program like this, I wouldn't want it in the school. No way, no way.

[Incitatus]

3. With schools short on funds,

the military would be more than happy to pay for these programs. They can cut a few teachers and replace them with officers.

:eyes:

[MajorChode]

20. Except the military doesn't pay for the instructors

They are almost exclusively retired military paid by the school district. The military kicks in a very limited amount of funds for certain activities and sometimes they donate surplus equipment, but that's about the extent of the military's financial involvement.

[sakabatou]

4. ::facebludgeon::

[IndianaGreen]

5. Permanent standing army, and permanent state of war

Our Founding Fathers were against permanent standing armies, and warned against foreign entanglements.

[Kurska]

56. And most of them shit in holes in the ground.

Just saying.

[peace13]

6. BOS! As in Bunch of shit!!!!

My step brother, a recruiter for the Army has three beautiful daughters ages 18-20. First two daughters went off to college but the third said that she was going military. He told her that she could have her choice of the Air Force! That tells me all I need to know.

[harkadog]

39. Nice to see he is ordering an adult woman around.

[peace13]

40. Yup, it's all nice.

My family members that are in the service have had nice careers. All three of them have been in wars over the past fifteen years. The army recruiter was in communications in some pretty hard stuff. I didn't take it as ordering his daughter. I took it that he has seen some awful stuff and wanted to spare her. His daughter is pretty strong willed and will do what she wants to.

[harkadog]

43. Maybe I took that the wrong way and if so I apologize

I am an Air Force vet and your brother-in-law gave his daughter good advice.

[peace13]

46. Thank you for your service.

No offense taken.

[imdjh]

7. What's your solution? Sixty years ago, a lot of our present day HS kids would be in jail or reform..

.... reform school, or simply not in school at all- or on their way to jail. A lot of our high school kids are in jail, on their way to jail, or on their way to lives which will feature jail. Of the drop outs, the potential is even higher.

Honestly, I've been saying for years that we need residential military schools for problem kids. Unless someone has a better idea, that doesn't include some pie in the sky societal shift taking place over decades which won't save a single kid this year or next, then give these people credit for trying.

We are losing TOO MANY OF our young people to irresponsible parents and grandparents who don't teach goal setting, morality, consequences, or properly equip these kids to make good decisions.

[unhappycamper]

10. 50 years ago I was one of those kids.

I spent almost 10 years in Uncle Sam's Army.

In one respect you are correct - kids would be in jail. And most likely I would have been amongst them.

On the other hand, I got to travel to strange and exotic lands. Turkey, Vietnam, Vietnam and Germany. The first two trips were interesting; the middle two not so much. I really could not recommend Tet of '68 to anyone. My second trip was even more interesting. Remember when Tricky Dick went on the boob box and said "We will not invade Cambodia!"? When that asshole made that statement I was about 100 meters inside the Cambodian border.

I understand your point; what can we the people do to fix this?

[Arctic Dave]

11. Yeah, becuase the military is the only organization that can teach

bad kids to behave.

DO AS YOU ARE TOLD OR I WILL SCREAM IN YOUR FACE!

[MajorChode]

14. Obviously you've never been associated with JROTC

It's strictly voluntary and I've never seen or even heard of kids being yelled at. Such would be counterproductive as I can't imagine too many kids staying in if that were the case. Not only is it voluntary, kids who are excessively disruptive are routinely kicked out. As far as why some kids like to participate, I have no idea as it's not something I would have been interested in at that age, but some kids really like it, and those that I've seen tend to be the most well behaved, respectful, and motivated kids you'll ever see.

[ProudDad]

52. You don't need to "teach children that killing the other is glorious"

to do this:

"We are losing TOO MANY OF our young people to irresponsible parents and grandparents who don't teach goal setting, morality, consequences, or properly equip these kids to make good decisions."

There are many fine ways to do it without warping their little minds with thoughts of "murder as glory".

Some fine day the sociopathy that is "the military" and glorification of war and "warriors" will be relegated to the dust bin of history...

May that day come SOON!

[imdjh]

59. Military school glorify discipline and preparation.

VMI and Citadel actually have fairly low percentages of grads who go on to kill anyone, in uniform or out.

[ProudDad]

62. I attended a military academy

I know what they teach...

They teach, "This is my rifle, this is my gun, this is for killing, this is for fun."

They teach us to be "Professional murderers" and to be proud of it...

They teach us to use our testosterone soaked bodies to destroy anyone who gets in our way by any means necessary.

I know what they teach...

They teach "a hundreds eyes for one (9/11) eye" and the whole fucking world goes blind...

I know what they teach...

[GodlessBiker]

8. We should change the name of the country to Sparta.

[FiveGoodMen]

35. Yup.

Before long, I'll bet they just start a eugenics program to start raising dedicated soldiers-from-birth.

[dbonds]

9. Mixed feeling on this.

I don't like the military brainwashing, teaching hawkish behavior, or conservative agenda's. But some kids do more discipline than they are getting currently. Many parents are too busy working. I know a few kids that did straighten out of the troubled youth after going into the military.

[unhappycamper]

15. Add one more to your list. n/t

[MajorChode]

17. It's no more brainwashing than association with just about any other group

If you want to see real brainwashing, go watch football practice or many other team sports.

[unhappycamper]

26. I know.

And that's what so fricking confusing. Killing people is wrong. Yet I killed my houchmade. in 1968.

[AnneD]

12. I know I will get torched for this but......

we would love to have an ROTC here in our middle school. Our students are inner city youth and male role models are hard to find or non existant. A good Jr ROTC program can give these boys a sense of family and structure that is absent in their lives. They don't have to join the military, but some do-it is a viable option for some kids. They learn responsibility, respect, and earn a dose self esteem. It replaces gangs, which is always positive.:hide:

[HillbillyBob]

18. Yea replaces random violence with organized violence under the

cover of The State. We are too close to a police state now we don't need to institute something that could very easily turn into something much worse.

I do hesitate to say Hitler Youth. I have had extensive reading and stories from surviving relatives and friends of the Kamps. Speaking about how things started to go so horribly wrong. We are facing what appears to be a very similar Depression that led up to dictatorship.

I have also known a lot of kids that were military academy students and not many were what ya call right in the head.
I was military. It is true that it does teach discipline in how to use that gun to best effect.
These kids parents need to take responsibility for there spawn.
I don't have kids because I knew I would not make a good parent. Thats about the only mistake I did not make. I sure made plenty of others though and not little ones either.

I know how hard it is to be a single parent, a good portion of my growing up was with my mom when she and dad divorced when I was 7 and went to live with dad and stepmother when I was 15. We were latchkey kids for about 7yrs because she had to work until 6 pm, some times later, and we lived in the poor part of town.
We need more Boys and Girls clubs whith responsible adults as mentors.
I am not trying to be critical, just some things to think about.

[AnneD]

25. I too am ex military....

and I understand where you are coming from but we have no Boys and Girls clubs and very few other activities. I saw basic straighten out many a kid. My sis sent my nephew to military school and even he will tell you it was the best thing that happened to him (and no he is not in the military).

You can be a good single parent but it is damn hard and you need a certain income level to do it successfully and a lot of personal sacrifices. I was a Nurse and later switched to the lower paying yet family friendly school nursing which kept us on the same schedule. Many of these moms are not so fortunate.

This is not the Hitler Youth. These kids are not given rifles and indoctrinated. They are taught responsibility and leadership. They get, especially the boys, some of the first positive male role models they have ever had. They are required to do community service on top of their ROTC classes. They have to maintain their grades to stay in. It really has a positive impact on our kids, especially our boys...and God Bless our Major-he works so hard to help all our kids.

Is it for every one-no. But it helps more than it hurt. No one has to join the military, but the discipline these kids learn helps them academically and through out their life. As a single mom, I would appreciate the choice being available for my child.

[EFerrari]

54. No torching. I raised two boys on my own

and agree that positive role models and mentors are really, really important at that age. It's a pivotal moment for most young people.

You'd think there would be more options available for our kids. :grr:

[AnneD]

57. Remember....

the conservative movement GOP are only interested in your children when they are fetus or military age. Until then you are on your own. I was lucky :sarcasm: and had a girl but my sister had a boy. Neither was easy and I can only imagine if I had more than one child.

Best advice from my saintly Mom that raised 4 mostly on her own before minimum wage...."never have more children than you can afford to raise by yourself". I know that she loved each and every one of us, but she didn't plan on divorce and the lack of the will of the courts to make sure the children were adequately taken care of. We lost contact with Dad years ago and do not wish to renew.

Although children do need monetary resources to grow and thrive....your time and involvement is the most important thing. This is where we are failing our kids. Anyone that tries to step in and help will not be trashed by me unless they are doing it for their own selfishness. ROTC programs don't hold a gun to these kids heads, but if it fills a need, the young adults will likely join. It is not ROTC that is at fault, it is not the single moms at fault, it is us as a society for not having the smarts to see our children's true worth and providing assistance. We worry about social security being solvent in the future and yet we ignore our true social security.

[jonnyblitz]

13. disgusting. nt

[Sabriel]

16. How about a conflict resolution program instead?

Or a Peace Group? Or an Outward Bound program?

Why--oh, why--does it always have to come down to killing people?

[imdjh]

23. And a candle light vigil.... nt

[lebkuchen]

19. recruiters can't make their quotas

After 8 years of two wars, who can fault them?

[adamuu]

22. It's gone. A bad idea quietly died (I hope)

That page has gone AWOL!

404 Error: File not found

It appears that the page you requested cannot be located at this time.

Please check to make sure that everything in the URL was spelled correctly. Otherwise, use the site search above to find the information you need.

[frebrd]

24. I was disgusted when they started it in high school.........

this is just obscene!

[Igel]

50. Really?

Wow.

They started it in high school in 1916.

The program was expanded in 1964. Perhaps that's what you have in mind.

Or you're in your late 90s, at the least, if you actually remember it starting.

[tomm2thumbs]

27. ** link **

http://tinyurl.com/yfgl5xe

[adamuu]

33. Gosh.

When I was little i used to play army. It was fun at the time. I kind of outgrew it. I don't think an institution should take advantage of that attraction.

[DebbieCDC]

28. What next? JROTC Daycare?

:wtf:

[tomm2thumbs]

29. shhhhhhhhhh....

prenatal ROTC is probably already in their sights

[bertman]

30. As a former Army officer and vet who respects the hell out of our military despite what

it's overarching influence has done to our country, I think this reeks of programs used in totalitarian countries to condition the young to follow orders.

I know a few guys who said the Army was the best thing that ever happened to them, but I also know a few for whom it was the worst.

Bad idea.

[sam sarrha]

32. “We want to reach students at that age before they make decisions that put them at risk,”.. so brain

washing them them into going to Un-ending war in the festered hemroids of the Earth wont put them at risk..

[XemaSab]

34. “We want to reach students at that age before they make decisions that put them at risk,”

Like... deciding to join the military and fight in an illegal, imperialist war? x(

[hack89]

36. Good. nt

[jmowreader]

37. As of right now, I would rather see kids go into JROTC than the Boy Scouts

And so would you. Check out the requirements for Eagle Scout, the highest rank: one of them is "do a service project for a RELIGIOUS community organization or a school." You could coordinate a $1 million project for a community organization and, unless the organization belongs to a church, it won't be accepted. How's that for some shit?

[Igel]

51. I've known a few Eagle scouts.

Not one of them did their project for a religious organization. In some cases, they did some pretty neat environmental stuff.

But it was worth double checking what you said. Not that I think you could possibly make a mistake.

But the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook--that's the official guide--says, on page 2:
"While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to your religious institution, school, or your community. (The project should benefit an organization other than the BSA.) The project plan must be approved by the organization benefiting from the effort, your unit leader (Scoutmaster, Varsity Scout Coach, Venturing crew Advisor), unit committee, and by the council or district advancement committee before you start."

That fully agrees with the projects I've seen. I can't imagine how "or your community" managed to get lost. Damned 0s and 1s, always getting up to no good the minute you take your eye off of them.

[Bill McBlueState]

60. once DADT is dropped

your point will be even stronger.

[liberal N proud]

38. Snag them before they can form an opinion

Talk about indoctrination.

Fortunately my kids are old enough they will not get their teeth into them. But if I had kids in middle school and ROTC approached one of them, the school would get a load from me bit time.

[MisterP]

42. "but it was too late to correct the spelling mistake: the JCS report 'Mobilization and Supply in the

Iran-Iraq War' had every instance of 'Iran' replaced with 'U.S.' by a spell-checking error"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Let's remake HeadStart!

:woohoo:

[edc]

45. NCLB

already mandates that middle and high schools hand confidential student information over to military recruiters or risk loosing federal funds. If too many states kick up about JROTC, the feds can easily do the same thing they did over confidentiality.

[dhpgetsit]

48. Taking a page from some of the militias in places like Uganda and Rwanda.

[Blue_Tires]

49. the moment i read the headline, i was coming in to say

"but they already have one! my ex-GF went through it!"...And my ex is of course from Wichita

[ProudDad]

53. Disgusting

:puke:

This glorification of war and "warriors" is disgusting in the extreme...

It's the constant drum beat of "glory, glory, glory" (Abu Graib, Guantanamo, 9/11), inciting the weakest of mind and character into murdering others for your corporate capitalist masters that's destroyed this country.

Someday "soldiering" will be pushed aside with the other sociopathic pursuits...and we'll be better for it.

[Norwood]

55. Theres nothing wrong with JROTC, but middle school is a bit too soon

In high school I was in JROTC for all 4 years and it was a great experience, met a lot of friends I still have to this day. Was on the Drill Team, Rifle Team(Member of the varsity team, yea I'm a good shot) and the Color Guard. Learned a lot about the military of course, the higher ranked upperclassmen pretty much ran the show 80% of the time, really builds leadership skills.

I'm not saying JROTC doesn't make a huge pitch for students to join the military, cause it obviously does, thats just not all it is.

Middle school is just way to soon for a class like this, the students as a whole are just not mature enough to handle it. Let them be kids for a while longer, high school is the right place for them to really think about the future and decide if the military is for them or not.

[Javaman]

58. Will their shirts be brown and will they get their own little stiletto? nt