NYT:Investigation of Bombing in Madrid Yields Conflicting Clues

[DeepModem Mom]

Investigation of Bombings in Madrid Yields Conflicting Clues
By TIM GOLDEN and DON VAN NATTA Jr.

Published: March 12, 2004


The flood of conflicting evidence and clues that emerged from the carnage of the Madrid bombings yesterday pointed in two very different directions, leaving counterterrorism officials in a country painfully familiar with terrorist violence struggling to identify a culprit.

Just hours after the bombings, the Spanish authorities blamed the Basque separatist group known as ETA. Hours later, the same officials announced the discovery of new evidence they said left open the possibility that Islamic militants had been involved....

***

(The scope of the attack, and its indiscriminate and coordinated nature, point to Al Qaeda, the article states, as well as detonators and "an audio tape of Koranic verses" found in a stolen van, but the dynamite used has been used before by ETA.)

***

Yesterday's bombings...came after months of intelligence reporting that ETA was planning a major attack, several Spanish officials said. The timing of the violence — with national elections scheduled for Sunday — seemed to suggest ETA's hand as well, they said.

But even as the interior minister, Ángel Acebes, was blaming ETA directly for the carnage, another senior Spanish counterterrorism official questioned privately whether the Basque group would wantonly kill so many innocents, most of whom were the sort of working-class people to whom ETA's Marxist-oriented leaders have traditionally tried to appeal. The death toll yesterday, at least 192 people, was nearly one fourth of the nearly 850 people ETA had killed since 1968....

***

Before yesterday, Al Qaeda had not carried out any known attacks in Spain. But prosecutors say the group has maintained cells in Spain since at least the early 1990's, insinuating themselves among the country's growing Arab immigrant population....


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/12/international/europe/12TERR.html

[LosinIt]

1. just had to have the local CIA operatives plant some literature...

Just hours after the bombings, the Spanish authorities blamed the Basque separatist group known as ETA. Hours later, the same officials announced the discovery of new evidence they said left open the possibility that Islamic militants had been involved....

Local CIA operatives plant some literature, or some other type of "Islamic Material" where it could be easily found in the van. Exactly what constitutes "Islamic material"?

[DeepModem Mom]

2. I'm sorry, LosinIt, the words "Islamic material" were mine,

and not quoted from the article. I've edited my post to quote the article directly: "an audio tape of Koranic verses."

[LosinIt]

3. Oh, I've got that one, The Koran's Greatest Hits

It Rocks! How obvious, the Bushista's want another term so badly that if they can't have another 9/11 here, they'll have it wherever possible.

[R Hickey]

7. The CIA, or a rogue CIA group, would be my third and forth suspects

We don't have the evidence the investigators have, so its really too early to tell, but Al Quada would still be my first suspect.

But maybe the CIA, or a pro-Bush rogue CIA group, would benefit by pushing Spain's election turnout to the right, although this bombing doesn't seem to be a sure-fire way to accomplish that goal...

However, I remember that before recent English elections, a huge suspicious-looking outbreak of hoof-and-mouth disease hit the English countryside. Not a bomb, but still very odd, with similar timing to this Spanish, pre-election disaster.

The CIA's (or a rogue CIA-oil group's) recent attempts at overthrowing Chavez, not to mention Haiti, showcase the latest evidence of a continuing record of pro-actively interfering in foreign elections, always pushing the voting population to the right.

[Dead_Parrot]

4. It wouldn't be a surprise it it was al-queda...

...They were one one of the coalition of the barmy from the outset, and here's this weeks star prize. I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before they hit the UK. Sigh. Reaping the whirlwind...

[TreasonousBastard]

5. Just thinking out loud here...

but we know that a lot of these groups talk to each other and have common contacts, so it's no stretch to say that ETA talks to the Provos, al Qaeda, shady arms dealers, and who knows who else.

It's also no stretch to note that both France and Spain have been particularly hard on the ETA lately, breaking up a lot of cells and really pissing off whoever's still out there, so there could be splinter groups who are SERIOUSLY pissed and not interested in the old ways of doing things.

So.... some of the crazier hotheads got together with their new Arab buddies and got some neat new equipment...

[izzie]

6. I will say I had heard of the Basque terrorist long before I heard of Al Q

Terrorist have been going on a long time, we are not the first and other countries seem to handle it better than we do. Well they have not gone to war with the world, any how.

[ze_dscherman]

8. Stay Behind

Well, this could have be ETA, and it could have been Al-Quaeda.

But today I will put on my tinfoil hat. :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

I feel reminded of Italy in the 80's - the infamous Bologna train station bombing. This was first blamed on leftist terrorists, but it has been confirmed that it was the deed of Italian neo-nazis. They had close ties to secret societies such as the Propaganda Due(P2) lodge, Italian secret service and organized crime. There are also claims that Gladio, a secret NATO organization, was involved.
See: http://www.citinv.it/info/ustica/staybeh.htm

Guess who was Reagans man in Italy then? "Anti-terrorist" Michael Ledeen
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/8249
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11512

[jmcgowanjm]

9. Wasn't France being Blackmailed w/ trainBombs last week?

And who was the Sears Tower sold to.
Who's in charge of security there.
Has CIA's PROMIS software found
any unusual Puts trading?
Has Buzzy Krongard been able to get
that $2.5 million dollars(Puts payoff on AmericanAirlines)
out of escrow?

And somebody needs to tell these Muslims to
make sure they leave all wills,passports and
religious materials behind. I mean, has anybody
ever found a Turner's Diary in the Murrah Fed
Building?

[DeepModem Mom]

10. 3/4: Threat Prompts Bomb Search on French Railways

Threat prompts bomb search on French railways

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

March 4, 2004

PARIS - Nearly 10,000 rail workers hunted for bombs along thousands of miles of train tracks in France yesterday after a little-known group threatened attacks unless it was paid millions of dollars.

Information from the group, called AZF, led to the recovery Feb. 21 of an explosive device buried in a railway line near Limoges in central France, the government said.

Tests showed the bomb was powerful enough to rupture the track, the government said.

AZF "presents itself as a 'pressure group with terrorist characteristics,'" the Interior Ministry said. Police believe AZF is a secular, not an Islamic, group....

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-wofran043694750mar04,0,4926815.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines

[jmcgowanjm]

12. Police believe AZF is a secular...

Does this mean that $ is AZF's Religion?

[PATRICK]

11. Simple

Al Qaeda reads about foiled train plots in the papers. Imitates them in a way far beyond the pale of Euro terrorists. Or the rounding up of ETA leaders creamed off the moderates and enabled an Ultra group to vie for reaction.

Either way it's Aznar's fault for getting involved in Bush version policy. The crackdown against ETA may have been hasty but in the end it should be easy to see if the bomb types etc. match actual ETA materials and procedures. They'd have to be pretty in with ETA to imitate them THAT closely.

But would the government want to give up the bonus pretext of crushing ETA? Not likely. So this decision will go slow even if research does take time too. At some point they will refocus resources there if anyone is paying careful attention to things outside the government's press releases.

[jmcgowanjm]

13. Which foiled trainplots would al qaeda be reading about, PATRICK?

"We know nothing of this group, but we are taking the threat seriously," said Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.

Its initials are those of a chemical factory that exploded in southwestern France in 2001. Investigators believe that blast, which killed 30 people, was accidental."

Many workers at the TotalFina plant believe otherwise.

http://nucnews.net/nucnews/2001nn/0109nn/010929nn.htm#100

[The Stranger]

14. How did Tim Golden miss this?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/11/1078594505628.html

On February 29, police intercepted a Madrid-bound van packed with more than 500 kilograms of explosives and blamed ETA. On Christmas Eve, they thwarted an attempted bombing at Chamartin, another Madrid railway station, and arrested two suspected ETA members.

Does someone have as part of their agenda making this more than local Spanish terrorism?

[jmcgowanjm]

15. "It looks as though this is an ETA terrorist outrage,"

said Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

How quick we are to solve the case.

Maybe Jack can now take his considerable crime solving
skills to the ME. Lots and lots of Bombings to be
solved over there.

Or maybe Jack could be invited as an expert
witness in the OKBombing right here in the
US.