Shut Out? (Spain says no thanks to the FBI for help in Madrid bombing)

[NNN0LHI]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4549412/

It’s not clear why Spain ignored the FBI’s offer to help investigate the Madrid bombings. But the decision could affect U.S. efforts to roll up terror networks in Europe

March 17 - Spanish authorities have ignored FBI efforts to assist the investigation into last week’s train bombing, creating new tensions between Washington and Madrid in the case.

Almost immediately after last Thursday’s attacks, in which at least 200 people were killed, the Justice Department offered to assist the Spanish by dispatching a team of FBI and other U.S. law-enforcement agents to the scene.

But the Spanish government appears to have rejected the U.S. offer and has instead invited other European law-enforcement and intelligence agencies to help in the case—an apparent snub of the Bush administration that U.S. officials tell NEWSWEEK may be an ominous portent for the future.

As a result, U.S. officials say, they have effectively been frozen out of the biggest terrorist case in Europe since September 11, despite mounting evidence that the perpetrators were part of a much larger network of Islamic militants that may well have links to Al Qaeda.

more

[dennis4868]

1. What did Bush say in 2000?

that he was a uniter and not a divider? HAHAHAHA....actually, it is not funny anymore :-(

[htuttle]

2. They probably don't trust us

Among other things, since our executive branch is known to expose covert agents for crass political purposes, why would ANY investigative or intelligence agency overseas want to share information with us? Any information shared might get blown out in the press the next time Bush's numbers dip lower...

[papau]

6. The couldn't think Bush LIHOP/MIHOP is really possible, could they?

or than Anzar's election - which everyone said was to be even more of a lock if terrorist hit - could have been an objective of our CIA?

Why does the world not trust Bush?

Has Bush lost all credibility? - except of course he remains credible in the US right wing GOP controlled media - which means more or less - in all US media.

So our media reports on how we just want to help Spain and the snubbed the US???? - or did they snub Bush and the neo-con controlled CIA?

The 6 o'clock news will be interesting tonight.

[saigon68]

3. I'm sure every Country wants Armed FBI agents stationed there?

Not Really ?????

There was a euphamism for this once

German State Police = Gestapo

[Kellanved]

24. it is strange

Especially considering that Aznar is still in office - there is more going on.



BTW. : It was the Secret State Police (German: Geheim = English: Secret).

[saigon68]

32. Sorry I stand Corrected Thank You

I will remember

(German: Geheim = English: Secret).


I agree also-- there is something going on

And thank you for your analysis from Europe, I was in Copenhagen and Sweden last August. I noted that G. Bush is not liked too much by the average citizens of these fine places.

Haben Sie einen guten Tag

[dArKeR]

4. TV news is reporting the FBI is in Spain and working, for the last few

days.

[Robbien]

11. oh yeah, they are helping all right

According to Canadian papers

"With signs that Spain's bombings were carried out by Islamic extremists who operate and have confederates in several countries, FBI agents are helping Spanish police in using fingerprints and names to seek a full picture of Zougam and the four other suspects in custody, a senior U.S. law enforcement official said in Washington. "

The FBI is getting names and fingerprints and told to check them out. I bet they are pissed off because they normally bully their way in and take charge of these sort of investigations and now they are being treated as support staff. Good. They cannot now control and spin the results of the investigation.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Looks like they got the FBI doing "busy work" to keep them occupied?

Guess they figure they won't fuck nothing up that way?

Don

[Robbien]

17. Spain will probably not use any of the info the FBI gives them

Most of the info the FBI has is the tainted stuff supplied by Chalbi and friends. But at least the FBI can say "We helped".

5. LOL

It's not clear?
In an apparent snub?

LOL

Why doesn't MSNBC just say it?
Never mind.
That's a rhetorical queston.

[chookie]

7. This is *very* disturbing

Pulling out of a manufactured war started by an incompetent president with a wacky agenda is one thing -- but choosing to opt out of cooperation from America's top investigative unit is quite another.

We may have difference with our allies regarding Iraq -- indeed many Americans also reject this war on Iraq -- but I have never doubted the faithfulness of our allies around the world to come to our aid if we had *really* been in peril. The flying monkeys tried to make them out as cowards and villains, but they simply refused to go along with *Bush*'s agenda -- which is not equivalent to America's best interests. Friends don't let friends start crazy wars.

But we have had decades of cooperation between our various international intelligence agencies, and overall, they functioned together pretty well.

I fear that this refusal to allow the FBI into this investigation is a signal that America (i.e. Bush) cannot be trusted to provide honest information in an investigation -- that it will selectively use or even manufacture "evidence" to pursue its agenda.

Thanks George W! Another sign of your great leadership!

I read today that Honduras and the Netherlands are pulling out of Iraq too --are Guam and Albania still behind us?

[Art_from_Ark]

27. I'm sure Guam will still be behind us

They are, after all, a US territory. Bulgaria, though, is another question

[Robbien]

28. If they stood behind us, would anyone be able to see them?

Sorry, but your comment made such a humorous picture in my mind. Little Guam standing there all alone protecting the US.

[LiberalFighter]

34. Netherlands pulling out?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-03-16-bush_x.htm
/snip/
Bush said the world must remain "strong and resolute" in the war on terrorism.

Bush's remarks came at the end of an Oval Office meeting with Netherlands Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, another ally on Iraq. Bush, told by a reporter that many Dutch citizens want their troops withdrawn, urged them to stay the course. "I would ask them to think about the Iraqi citizens who don't want people to withdraw, because they want to be free."

/snip/

I wonder if we were suppose to read between the lines that the Netherlands was also pulling out.

[chicaloca]

37. They might not be extending their mandate past June...

Radio Netherlands press review for March 17:

http://www.rnw.nl/cgi-bin/home/PressReview

(By Thursday afternoon these stories will probably be in the press review archive, which you can access by going to the bottom of the page and clicking on "Press Review Archive".)

[Ilsa]

36. I htink you nailed it.

Your Quote: "I fear that this refusal to allow the FBI into this investigation is a signal that America (i.e. Bush) cannot be trusted to provide honest information in an investigation -- that it will selectively use or even manufacture "evidence" to pursue its agenda."

I think that pretty well sums it up. It seems to me to reinforce what the foreign polls say about others' opinion of the US govt and it's agencies.

Such a shame. A nation of good, decent people whose govt. cannot be trusted.

[9215]

8. Wasn't the explosive made in the US?

That's what somebody at DU said.

If they start from there I can see how this investigation might lead back to the US and requests from Spanish authorities for info and then the US snubbing them.

Just some thoughts.

[jpak]

19. Do US manufactured explosives have taggants???

If so it would be very easy to determine if this stuff was of US origin...

(can't remember if that post-OKC bombing taggant legislation passed...)

[9215]

29. It seems that Spain wouldn't have taken this step to exclude

the FBI if they didn't have some good reason to believe the US may be involved. They excluded the US out of security.

The topic on the explosives was here yesterday.

[truthspeaker]

31. No, it didn't pass. Repubs voted it down.

But it's Clinton's fault. Somehow.

[NV1962]

30. Nope, the 150 kilos Goma2/ECO was made in Spain, last February

Exported and then re-imported (illegally, presumably via Morocco)

[UpInArms]

9. also, why would they want

our "covert agents" all over the place determining that Zapatero was not a democratically elected leader and therefore have to plan a new coup?

[9215]

10. Spain snubbing US means they know, or suspect that the US is

involved in the bombings and they took this unuusual step because they are afraid any involvement with the US could compromise the integrity of the investigation.

The world is dividing before our eyes and this division will take a long time to heal and if Bush stays in power it will be devastating to relations among Western countries. Prepare for the locus of power to shift to Europe as the evidence from this bombing increasingly points to the US intelligence community and they claim the moral authority to deal with terrorism.

[oneighty]

14. world is dividing

A successful European Union and peace in the Middle East is the Bushies' worst nightmare.

IMHO

[Malva Zebrina]

12. all of the chaos was created by the idiot George Bush

He thought he was King of the world--he created this mess all by himself. He is responsible for all of it. Naturally, he will blame Clenis.

[chookie]

21. Bingo. Pin the tail on the monkey.

>>he created this mess all by himself. He is responsible for all of it. <<

There were lots of options out there. Heaven knows we tried to warn him of the consequences of his plans, and against the fabrications he built this war on -- but he clearly and decisively chose to disregard all the well-intentioned advice and instead be a Strong Misleader.

I know that there are all sorts of murderous bastards out there that need to be reckoned with -- too bad they were not really reckoned with, but, worst of all, strengthened by Bush's ideologically-driven bungling.

Now Bush is going to say that if we pull out of this mess now, "the terrorists have won." Sorry George, but you messed up so badly up to now that unfortunately they have *already* won.

It's going to take a regime change in the USA to staunch this hemorraging. I mean -- does *any* sane person *really* believe that Bush is going to be successful in pursuing his agenda? How are we measuring success -- by the ever growing number of people who hate us? By "the front line of the war on terra" engulfing the whole planet?

[Chicago Democrat]

15. Well I guess Spain's "Against Us" - this is all Bush's fault!

Bush's fault for invading Iraq and starting World War III. Mr. Bush, your policies now are the single biggest election issue in every single country in the world.

[trapper914]

16. Gotta see it for what it is

Politics, baby.

Anti Bush sentiment is way to high in Spain for law enforcement to be perceived as ignoring the will of the people again. It hasn't even been a week since the bombing.

Give it some time, and I think you'll quietly see the Spanish government using the services of the FBI.

[demdave]

18. So Spain is going after the bombers??

What is the response of the bombers if Spain tries to track them down? I assume Spain isn't just going to take a hit like that and not hold someone responsible. If they do go after the bombers wouldn't that make the bombers attack again?

[Robbien]

20. And your point is?

Unlike Bush who ignores the threat of OBL and invades non-threatening countries, Spain is going after the source of the threat. Bush is the coward. Spain is using intelligence.

[Rex]

22. Whhhhhhhaaaaaaattttttt? Spain doesn't want the BFEEs help?

Rut-Ro George, they are on to you! Spain watched the FBI clean up the BFEEs mess after the UN Iraq bombing and said 'hmmmmm........'

Rove should be sweating bullets over this unexpected outcome! What if they find out Karl, then what?

[doubleyoi]

23. theFBI? Why send them?

we're in a "war on terra" why would we offer the FBI's services? Why aren't we sending the hastily called up 164th Postal and Bugle Brigade from East Bobbledyboob, Arkansas? You don't fight a "war" with FBI agents, you fight them with soldiers from wherever you can get them. Is the BFEE admitting that terrorism is more of a CRIME thing than a "war" thing? Spain can investigate as well as any country a crime that occurs within it's borders. I'm glad we offered, but I barely blame for them telling us to stick it. Thing is , they'll need our technology eventually...

[SemperEadem]

25. Spain is taking a Eurocentric approach to this

because they recognize that once the US gets some kind of foothold in over there, they will be dictating everything and imposing their will---even though the US's will may not be in the best interests of Europe, of which Spain has always been a dominating entity.

Maybe Shrub should sit back and meditate on that bluster he dished at the UN---"The US doesn't have to ask anyone's permission..." I'm sure he noticed the energetic recoil at that moment... and upon reflection, he will remember it now as being yet another in a long line of stupid, arrogant blunders which has negatively impacted the prestige of our nation.

[Rex]

26. Dude, you give Chimpy McWargasm to much credit!

"Maybe Shrub should sit back and meditate on that bluster he dished at the UN---"The US doesn't have to ask anyone's permission..." I'm sure he noticed the energetic recoil at that moment... and upon reflection, he will remember it now as being yet another in a long line of stupid, arrogant blunders which has negatively impacted the prestige of our nation."

Shrub can't hook up his video game joystick to the console box (Rice does that) because it requires conscience thought!

For Shrub, stream-of-thought goes like this: "Shiny things...shiny shiny shiny things...ohhhh...loud noises...loud...shiny things..."

[NV1962]

33. I think it's penance for trying to fool European law enforcement, too

No kidding: German TV station ARD apparently aired a statement from a BKA official (eq. FBI) complaining that they received bogus info after the attacks from the Spanish colleagues (i.e.: fingering ETA, while evidence already pointed to Al Q'aida instead.)

[ConcernedCanuk]

35. IMHO - Spain is taking IT'S flag back from Aznar

.
.
.

After all, Spain IS part of Europe, NOT the USA , and France is QUITE happy to have them back in the fold.

Nothing sinister in Spain not wanting the USA to "babysit" them.

Most of Spain's population didn't want to be in GeeDubya's war anyway, and they dumped the leader that got them into it. Seems perfectly logical to me.

And France, whom the USA deemed fit to alienate and ridicule, happens to be Spain's next door neighbor, and France DOES have nukes . .

Lastly,

as to trusting any of the "intelligence" units of the USA . . . ?

gimme a break

[teryang]

38. It's chauvinistic interference in sovereign matters

...The BFEE trys to inject the FBI into every bombing investigation around the world. With their pitiful performance to date regarding 911 and the anthrax attacks, it is quite apparent that the major function of the FBI is obstruction of justice and concealment of evidence on behalf of the BFEE.

Their lab has a reputation for faking evidence that goes back decades. A major function of the Justice department in all administrations is political damage control and obfuscation of evidence to derail prosecutions of the politically connected and the politically sensitive "national security operations." Many times these national security operations involve illegal activities like arms trafficking, drug trafficking, money laundering, murder, bombings etc.

The FBI is definitely not trustworthy.