FFRF Wins National Day of Prayer Case

[DavidDvorkin]

Source: Freedom From Religion Foundation

Check back later for a statement!

Read more: http://ffrf.org/news/releases/ffrf-wins-national-day-of-prayer-case/

---

The exclamation marks are justified.

Federal district court has struck down the law creating the National Day of Prayer on the grounds that it violates separation of Church and State.

[rurallib]

1. What's in the distance I hear? Heads exploding? Yippeeee

[No Elephants]

14. Maybe it's the sound of the SCOTUS Justices getting ready to overturn this decision.

[Sinistrous]

2. I'm pleased. But, let's see how

this fares under the inevitable appeal(s).

[tularetom]

3. I didn't even know there was a national day of prayer

But I'm glad that the law creating it has been zapped.

I thought prayer was supposed to be a private interaction between you and your "creator".

If so why the fuck do we even need a "national" day of prayer.

[Warpy]

5. It kind of begs the question

of whether the faithful are absolved from needing to pray on the other 364 days of the year.

[No Elephants]

8. Yes, I believe it was the brainchild of The Fellowship, the intern'l politico-religious org.

of which Ensign and Sanford and Stupak are members (though Stupak moved out of C Street after the fact that he was the only Democrat there got a lot of publicity).

[Dr.Phool]

9. aka "The Family".

[GillesDeleuze]

18. Actually, its Shirley Dobsons group, Focus on the Family

The Family does the national prayer breakfast. i know, so much difference.

[No Elephants]

29. Nope. The National Day of Prayer is much older than the Focus on the Family organization.

The Focus on the Family had its earliest root in a 1977 broadcast by Dobson about family matters. http://www.focusonthefamily.com/about_us/history.aspx

The National Day of Prayer is said by, among others, President Obama to have its origins in America's earliest days. http://www.ndptf.org/ http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/47817

However, the National Day of Prayer did not begin as a formal annual, national ritual since 1952, when Congress passed a law REQUIRING annual observation. That was only a year ahead of the Presidential Prayer Breakfast, which The Fellowship was definitely responsible for starting:

"The group is most widely known for facilitating supportive prayer groups, including the Presidential Prayer Breakfast, later known as the National Prayer Breakfast. Every sitting United States president since 1953 has participated in the national breakfast.<9><10><11><12>" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_(Christian_organization)

I did not see anything specific about the Fellowship and the act of Congress about the National Day of Prayer, I just connected the dots. The Fellowship's wiki does say it is far and away the most powerful religous organization and the Prayer Breakfast and the Act re: the National Day of Prayer were only a year apart..

So, in summary:

The Fellowship was probably at least involved in getting an Act of Congress formally making the National Day of Prayer an annual event, if not the prime mover of the Act, but we don't know either for certain. (That was why I phrased my Reply #8 in terms of "I believe," rather than making a flat statement.) We, do however, know for certain that the National Day of Prayer was not not the brainchild of Focus on the Family, although that organization may today be the most active and vocal about the event.

And, IMO, there IS quite a difference between Focus on the Family and The Fellowship.

Belated welcome to DU.

[GillesDeleuze]

37. i mean that..

shirley dobson is now head of the national day of prayer taskforce assigned with the project of getting all 50 governors and the president to commit to the activity, not that the Family was no longer involved...

[Warpy]

4. Look at the USSC

I'm sure they'll make another rotten decision on this one, and you know the conspicuous Christians will make sure it gets that far.

[Lance_Boyle]

6. From my initial read of the decision, the defendants were Obama and Gibbs.

I don't know that they are likely to appeal, or that anyone other than them would have standing to do so. Looks like a victory over conspicuous piety to me!

[No Elephants]

10. Have you been keeping up with the decisions Obama's D of J has been appealing?

[Lance_Boyle]

12. Conclusion of the court:

--- quoted text ---

As this case shows, “it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of
separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority.” Letter from James
Madison to R. Adams (1832), quoted in McCreary County, 545 U.S. at 876. The duty of
this court is to review the relevant case law and determine how it applies in a particular case.
Although the law does not always point in the same direction on matters related to the
establishment clause, my review of that law requires a conclusion that 36 U.S.C. § 119 is
unconstitutional.

I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view
it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray. That is unfortunate. A determination that the
government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message
itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination. Rather, it is part of the effort
to “carry out the Founders' plan of preserving religious liberty to the fullest extent possible
in a pluralistic society.” McCreary County, 545 U.S. at 882 (O'Connor, J., concurring). The
same law that prohibits the government from declaring a National Day of Prayer also
prohibits it from declaring a National Day of Blasphemy.

--- end quoted text ---

The entire decision is an impressive read.

[GillesDeleuze]

19. ...and geitner? not sure, will check. nt

[alfredo]

41. A new administration has to continue court cases they

inherit from a previous administration. Bush had to continue the DoJ suit against Microsoft, but what they did was subvert the judge's decision against MS. MS was found guilty, but when it came time to punish them, they did their best to strengthen MS's hand against us. I don't remember the details, but MS was greatly rewarded for their conviction.

[Lance_Boyle]

42. DoJ (for US) was plaintiff in that case. This one appears different.

First of all, the DoJ is not involved. The suit was against Obama and Gibbs, not the US. White House Counsel, not the DoJ, handled the defense. It's also not a continuation of a case brought against the previous president.

I believe the odds of an appeal are exceedingly slim.

[alfredo]

46. Didn't know the history of the case.

[Stumbler]

7. Yay!

I know it's wrong for atheists to quote scripture, so I won't. But I will advise us to remember Matthew 6: 5-7. (The lesson is to pray in private: only hypocrites do it in public)

[Demeter]

21. Since WHEN Is It Wrong for Atheists to Quote Scripture?

I firmly believe that you should rub their noses in it, just like training puppies who make their messes in the house.

[Dr.Phool]

I've been praying for this!

[Judi Lynn]

31. Hallelujah, your prayers have been answered! Praise god.

http://www.johnnyleeclary.com.nyud.net:8090/Jimmyaltercall.jpg http://www.jimgoad.net.nyud.net:8090/YaBBImages/jolochurch.jpg

[laconicsax]

11. AWESOME!!!

:woohoo::bounce::party:

[sybylla]

13. WOOHOO!

Thank you Jeebus! LOL.

Finally, some sanity, at least until the Supreme Court undoes it.

[Ian David]

15. I hope nobody strikes down The National Day of Masturbation.

Because I can't masturbate unless the government tells me that everyone else is supposed to do it on the same day.

Still, wasn't this Day of Prayer Jeff Gannon's last, paying gig?

"National day of Prayer" .. 600 chairs.. by 1pm, 37 were filled
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x821492

Also:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jeff+Gannon+national+day+of+prayer&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS334US334&ie=UTF-8

[DavidDvorkin]

16. Does that fall under Separation of Crotch and State?

[Ian David]

17. From my wet, sticky hands! n/t

[New Earth]

20. so

is this Obama cancelling it or the court? Did Obama want it cancelled? Now I have people on my facebook posting some chain status that Obama is Muslim cuz he cancelled the National Day of Prayer.

[GillesDeleuze]

22. obama intends to still do ndp

Shortly after the news broke today that FFRF won its National Day of Prayer lawsuit, the White House tweeted: "As he did last year, President Obama intends to recognize a National Day of Prayer" with a link to the presidential proclamation from 2009.

Foundation Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor expressed surprise and disappointment at the White House's response to "tweet" over a constitutional issue of this magnitude.

"President Obama is a constitutional scholar, and knows the issues at stake. He couldn't possibly have read the 66-page historic ruling by Federal Judge Barbara Crabb at the time of this 'tweet,' " said Gaylor.

Twitter is a public forum, so please tweet back that you object to the National Day of Prayer! Twitter is easy to use, and to tweet back at the White House, simply start your tweet with:

@whitehouse

Here's one example of a recent tweet from Twitter's "Public Timeline":

Killarny: @whitehouse Can we have a National Day of Atheism too? Or how about honoring the separation of church and state? :)

While you're in the Twitterverse, check out FFRF's Twitter account: http://twitter.com/FFRF

[DavidDvorkin]

23. What a surprise

I wish it were a surprise, but it's what I expected.

[No Elephants]

34. Please see Reply #30.

If it were up to Obama, I don't think he would have made waves by dropping it, but that is only my opinion. However, the fact is that cancelling it or continuing it is not up to him. And a fact or two never hurt anyone, even message board posters.

[progressoid]

44. Of course. He HAS to.

First of all it is polically advantageous to do so.

But more importantly, it will hide the fact that he is a secritley a muslin.

[tbyg52]

25. >>Did Obama want it cancelled?

Who cares? It is unconstitutional whether he (or anyone else) wants it canceled or not.

Oh, and...

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[No Elephants]

35. I agree on the Constitution, but

please see Reply 34.

While an Act of Congress requires an annual National Day of Prayer, no law required Obama's D of J to seek dismissal of a Constitutional Challenge to the NDP. Some here claim that the D of J is obligated by law to fight for every law of Congress, but that is false, plain and simple. That is only a tradition that the D of J created for itself and therefore the D of J is perfectly free to deviate from it.

What Holder and every member of the D of J actually DO have to do is "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" to the best of their respective ability. Therefore, fighting for a law of Congress that the D of J considers unconstitutional is a clear breach of the obligations of the D of J and of the Chief Executive of the D of J, the POTUS.

So, I guess the Constitutional Law lecturer in chief does not consider an Act of Congress requiring the POTUS to proclaim a National Day of Prayer each year a violation of this provision of the COTUS: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

A law requiring a National Day of Prayer seems to me to fit that description to a T, but what in God's name do I know?

[Tesha]

26. Muslims don't pray? Who knew? Then what's all that shouting from minaret towers about? (NT)

[No Elephants]

36. Muslims pray five times a day. The Bible says "pray without ceasing." So, if Muslims are going to

go against the Bible, they can damn well pray on their own time.

But seriously, folks, the National Day of Prayer has neo theo fingerprints all over it. See the wiki on the National Day of Prayer and also Reply #29.

[No Elephants]

30. Obama did not cancel it, nor can he. He issued a Proclamation, as

required by a 1953 Act of Congress, but did not show up for Dobson's ceremony. However, his administration did ask the court to dismiss a Constitutional challenge to the National Day of Prayer. I'm guessing that was in the case described in the OP.

ETA: For more than you probably want to know about the National Day of Prayer, you can see the links in my Reply #29.

[Zhade]

24. Justice. Nice!

NT!

[drgonzosghost]

27. From my Right Wing Aunt's Facebook Page....

"President Obama has decided that there will no longer be a "National Day of Prayer" held in May. He doesn't want to offend anybody. Where was his concern about offending Christians last January when he allowed the Muslims to hold a day of prayer on the capitol grounds. As a Christian and a American "I am offended." if you agree copy and paste no matter what religion you are, this country was built on Freedom!!"

I can't tell you how happy I STILL am for moving out of the US when I did. Teh stoopid HAS to be killing you guys!

[No Elephants]

32. I call bs on your Aunt--or, more likely, on her sources. Please see Reply #30.

[progressoid]

43. Huh?

First she bitches about Muslims holding a day of prayer but then asks to copy and paste no matter what religion you are. Even if you are Muslim?

Oh, wait, I get it. Islam isn't a real religion right?

[alp227]

28. Natl Day of Prayer is a silly concept like the Pledge of Allegiance.

NDP is obviously a federal promotion of religion, and isn't America supposed to be the land of freedom?

Also, federal courts have ruled against "Under God" in the Pledge or even schools requiring the Pledge in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Legal_challenges_and_responses

[No Elephants]

33. The 1952-55 were great years for God in Washington, D.C.

1952-Presidential Prayer Breakfast
1953-Congress passed an act requiring that the President proclaim a National Day of Prayer annually.*
1954-Words "under God" added to the Pledge. http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_pled1.htm

The link credits the Knights of Columbus with the revision to the Pledge. Nonetheless, I believe that the Fellowship was somehow involved. Please see Reply # 29.

This law said the Prez could choose the day, In 1988, Congress passed another law, fixing the day as the first Thursday in May.

[newtothegame]

38. What exactly was it hurting?

:shrug:

I'm an atheist myself but I'm not gonna go out and start a lawsuit just because I don't pray myself.

[DavidDvorkin]

39. The inevitable "I'm an atheist, but I don't see a problem" post.

[newtothegame]

40. The inevitable sad DU'er who uses this forum as a tool in their desperate search for trolls...

while the rest of us discuss real issues. Find some happiness in life friend. Hug a puppy. Something.

Warm hugs and kisses,
newtothegame

[Ignis]

45. This little concept we have called separation of church & state.

It's in some musty old document somewhere, but who has time to read that stuff?

[undeterred]

47. The original reasons for this no longer exist

now that Communism has fallen. However, the fundies who want to take over the government and institute a Christian theocracy have made this their own. So, Good on the FFRF for taking this on. Not hard to win in Madison, but lets see what happens next.