Stephen Hawking: Aliens could pose danger to humans

[Duer 157099]

Source: Associated Press

LONDON — British astrophysicist Stephen Hawking says aliens are out there, but it could be too dangerous for humans to interact with extraterrestrial life.

Hawking claims in a new documentary that intelligent alien lifeforms almost certainly exist, but warns that communicating with them could be "too risky."

The 68-year-old scientist says a visit by extraterrestrials to Earth would be like Christopher Columbus arriving in the Americas, "which didn't turn out very well for the Native Americans."

Read more: http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100425/NEWS/100429647/1350?Title=Stephen-Hawking-Aliens-could-pose-danger-to-humans

---

Hey, I didn't say it, it was Stephen Hawking.

[Arkana]

1. Stephen Hawking is probably the most tragic person in America.

A mind that is among the greatest in the nation's history--trapped in a broken, immobile body.

[RoccoR5955]

2. FYI- Hawking is not an American, he's a Brit.

He was born in Oxford, England.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking

[Arkana]

4. My bad.

Change that to "one of the greatest minds in the world" then.

[liberation]

8. Don't feel too bad for him...

... he obviously was not trapped enough as to stop him from running away from his wife with his nurse.

That being said. It is too late, as our radio waves have left the solar system long ago.

[theophilus]

144. Actually, seems like I remember some reason analysis that says radio waves disperse

to the extent that they would not be "readable" after a relatively short distance. We wouldn't be detected and far away sources are dead to us, as well. At least the lifeform generated type. I don't know where I saw this finding, but I believe I did.

[OverBurn]

18. It's a good thing....

It's a good thing they don't have socialized health care over there, no way would he have survived ALS and still be alive at 68 years old with those death panels and all. ;-)

[totodeinhere]

41. No, a prominent professor like him would have been gotten top notch care.

It's the poor and vulnerable who don't get proper medical care in this country. An affluent tenured professor like he is would get the care.

[Javaman]

75. Larry Flint is right!

Homer Simpson

[BrklynLiberal]

111. Did you see the Simpspn's last night. The bit about William Shatner in his various roles?

I truly did laugh out loud.

Episode 2119 The Squirt and the Whale.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Why do I suspect that if there was ever a meeting between Earthlings and aliens, it would

be the aliens that would suffer. I am not so sure that it would necessarily be the Earthlings who would be the Native Americans in the Columbus analogy.

Earthlings' first impulse would be to strike out, destroy and ask questions later.

[iamjoy]

22. Aliens Would Suffer

maybe at first. Eventually, they would win. Of course, that is assuming they found us first. I think looking at what happened with Columbus' "discovery" of the Americas is a good analogy. Now some of the indigenous people were friendly, and some hostile. Sure, until about 1900 lots of "White" men were killed by "Indians", but in the end, European culture won out and took over the continents. The Europeans were more technically advanced and better organized than the Native Americans.

Any species or race from another planet that can make it across light years of space is going to have better technology and be more efficient than we are. We may kill some of them, but more of them will come. It won't necessarily be dramatic death rays or battles to the death like so may sci-fi adventures would predict. It could take a couple hundred years.

Or a scenario such as the one outlined in District 9 could occur - a ship "crashes" and the small group of aliens are helpless. They do suffer. In reality though, if ET were able to "phone home" it wouldn't be pretty.

[Blue State Bandit]

28. Aliens Come To Earth (Scenario).

Well, prior to first contact, the aliens would be exposed to all the latest craziness that we have been pumping into the universe via radio and microwave transmission.

With all of the right wing ideology being put forth on talk radio, the most abundant of the wide band transmission not jumbled and sequestered into today's bundled digital media, it would be easiest to find distinct.

They would be well versed in the "Second Coming/Rapture" memes by the time they were ready to make their first move and could easily convince the wing-nuts that they are God's emissaries and then it's game over.

WOW!

I just made the Religious Right a National Security Threat!

[Joe Bacon]

43. They won't come to Earth because we've scared them off.

For 100 years, we have been broadcasting radio signals from Earth. That means every star within 100 light years of us in all directions has heard our radio signals. They are still hearing the hate from Father Coughlin, Hitler, Stalin, Joe Mc Carthy, George Wallace, Ian Paisley, Georges Le Pen, Thurmond, Heider, Khomeini, Sharon and every other self centered egomaniacal asshole.

No alien who has encountered our messages would ever want to come here. We've scared them away.

It would be quite interesting if we did make contact and find out that they have no knowledge of Christ, but they have encountered Buddha. I wonder how that would play with Robertson and his fellow pulpit pimps?

[Q3JR4]

59. While it's true that we've been broadcasting

electromagnetic waves into space, it is also true that as those waves travel they spread out to cover more area. Think of it like this. A light bulb in a small room will illuminate all four walls brightly while the same light bulb in the center of a stadium will barely reach the edges. It turns out that the strength of the signal falls off as 1 divided by the distance squared. That means that if you double the distance, the signal is 1/4 the size. If you are ten times the distance away, the signal is 1/100 the size.

To illustrate the point the the Pioneer 10 Space Probe is now about 149,000,000 kilometers away. It is still communicating with us, but the background radiation is starting to induce static in the signal. Eventually (and this will probably happen before the probe is even one light year or 9,460,730,472,580.8 km away) the background radiation will be stronger than the signal from the satellite. When that happens we'll lose contact.

Not to belabor the point any more than I have to, but any radio signal sent out from earth will only reach about one or two light years before it's gone.

Q3JR4.

[Uncle Joe]

82. Yes, but wouldn't that be taking our limited detection technology in to account and not that

of an advanced space faring alien race?

[Q3JR4]

131. You do have to wonder how

someone (or something) can pull real data out of noise. How do you tell the difference? Especially when you, presumably, don't speak the language?

I don't discount the possibility that something out there CAN do it, I just don't know how feasible it's going to be for them.

Q3JR4.

[Uncle Joe]

148. We sent potential Rosetta Stones; aka Golden Records out to God knows who, over thirty years ago.

Golden record

Main article: Voyager Golden Record

Included in the spacecraft is one of the two Voyager Golden Records. This phonograph record contains sounds and images selected to portray the diversity of life and culture on Earth. It is intended for any intelligent extraterrestrial life form, or for future humans, that may find it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1

Background

As of 2008, the Voyager spacecraft became the third and fourth human artifacts to escape entirely from the solar system. Pioneers 10 and 11, which were launched in 1972 and 1973 and preceded Voyager in outstripping the gravitational attraction of the Sun, both carried small metal plaques identifying their time and place of origin for the benefit of any other spacefarers that might find them in the distant future.

With this example before them, NASA placed a more comprehensive (and eclectic) message aboard Voyager 1 and 2—a kind of time capsule, intended to communicate a story of our world to extraterrestrials.

“ This is a present from a small, distant world, a token of our sounds, our science, our images, our music, our thoughts and our feelings. We are attempting to survive our time so we may live into yours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record

Greetings

The first audio section contains spoken greetings in the following 55 languages<3>, including 4 Chinese dialects (marked with **) and 12 South Asian languages (marked #) listed here in alphabetical order:

• Akkadian
• Ancient Greek
• Amoy**
• Arabic
• Aramaic
• Armenian
• Bengali#
• Burmese
• Cantonese**
• Czech
• Dutch
• English
• Esperanto
• French
• German
• Gujarati#
• Hebrew
• Hindi#
• Hittite
• Hungarian
• Ila (Zambia)
• Indonesian
• Italian
• Japanese
• Kannada#
• Korean
• Latin
• Luganda
• Mandarin**
• Marathi#
• Nepali#
• Nguni
• Nyanja
• Oriya#
• Persian
• Polish
• Portuguese
• Punjabi#
• Quechua
• Rajasthani#
• Romanian
• Russian
• Serbian
• Sinhalese#
• Sotho
• Spanish
• Sumerian
• Swedish
• Telugu#
• Thai
• Turkish
• Ukrainian
• Urdu#
• Vietnamese
• Welsh
• Wu**

[Q3JR4]

156. That's different.

A physical slab of some material with a message on it that's sent out into space will last much longer and will go much farther--given enough time--than an electronic signal.

Q3JR4.

[Q3JR4]

157. Of course there are different types of signal you could send.

The difference comes not in the amount of energy you put into the signal, though that could help, but in HOW the signal is sent into space.

Think of it like this:
A light bulb in the middle of a room sends out light rays in all directions, much like a radio antennae on the surface of the earth. If you focused that light energy into a coherent beam pointed in one direction, like a laser, the signal would go much farther before dissipating.

So we're stuck, I believe, with two possibilities. On the one hand the earth has been sending signals into deep space in all directions, but those signals won't go very far away from the planet--on the order of 1 or 2 light years. On the other hand we could penetrate much deeper of we focused the information into a beam, but the only way the signal could be "seen" is for the alien ship to be in the path of the beam.

Just to clarify...

Q3JR4.

[Uncle Joe]

158. I know where you're coming from and there isn't too much we can do about radio signals, but I view

the slab and radio signals as a package deal.

The slab can point them in the right direction, I also believe an intelligent, advanced species capable of interstellar space travel would have superior detection and probably superior linguistic skills to our own.

They wouldn't need to come as close in order to detect, distinguish and analyze natural background radio noise from artificial systematic radio signals.

As I posted elsewhere, I believe it's imperative that we do master space travel, I'm just not for hanging out neon signs as to our location, I would much rather for us to be the discoverers as opposed to the discoverees.

[BrklynLiberal]

110. cool. Great info.

:thumbsup:

[theophilus]

145. Thanks for that info. I knew I had heard it before. That is probably why SETI doesn't produce

results, eh?

[leveymg]

63. How does one explain the concepts of fiction and propaganda? Hope they don't take it all literally

Or, we're in Detention, forever. No recess with the other kids for us. Stay in your seat.

[Regret My New Name]

106. They also think we have giant death stars...

I'm sure they saw star wars by now.

[BrklynLiberal]

109. Or maybe we would have a sort of "Galaxy Quest" encounter..RE: Star Trek

or one of the other SciFi space adventures...that are being transmitted around the universe.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0177789/
Eighteen years after their sci-fi adventure show "Galaxy Quest" was canceled, actors Jason Nesmith, Gwen DeMarco, Alexander Dane, Tommy Webber, and Fred Kwan are making appearances at sci-fi conventions and store openings in costume and character. They're wallowing in despair and at each other's throats until aliens known as Thermians arrive and, having mistaken the show for fact and consequently modeling their entire culture around it, take them into space to save them from the genocidal General Sarris and his armada.

[kimmerspixelated]

122. Maybe they knew Christ, the real one, not the fantasy

character the wingnuts have fashioned. Christ would have embraced aliens and wanted to be "brothers" in the truest sense. Nothing wrong at all with true christianity.

[Beer Snob-50]

147. actually, i would think that (ok theology tyme)

because god created everything and jesus is one of the holy trinity, then he created these aliens.

[Javaman]

76. More likely...

An alien space craft lands somewhere in west texas...

A local yokel drives up sporting a sarah palin bumper sticker...

Alien: take me to your leader...

Local Yokel: Hmmm...

Later that night. Local Yokel and family sit around the dinner table.

Mrs. Local Yokel: Honey, you said this was deer meet right?

Local Yokel: No, I said, Hey Dear, I brought home some meat for dinner.

Mrs. Local Yokel: Oh...It's a bit tangy.

Local Yokel: Yup, regular astronaut food.

[kimmerspixelated]

123. Just another Texas Hater post.

[Javaman]

164. I live in Austin, Texas. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

107. ROTFLAMO!!!

[defendandprotect]

31. Agree with you re our violence -- Meanwhile, some say that the meeting happened under Ike . . .

much like what is shown in "Encounters of the Third Kind" --

[oedura]

49. We can't even...

...get our shit together on this planet.

I find it hard to believe that we'd be able to kick the ass of a species that had mastered intergalactic travel.

[kimmerspixelated]

124. Exactly, and for them to come here

and interact with us, would be the equivalent of us trying to communicate with cavemen or worse.

[ManiacJoe]

52. Kind of like the opening to the Star Trek: Enterprise episode

"In a mirror: Darkly", first two minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEz77hoQt9M&feature=related

[Oregone]

5. Good Stephen. Humans needed to be wiped out yesterday

Ill volunteer to be in the zoo

[Demoiselle]

6. I'll cling to that lovely "Close Encounters" twinkly light fantasy, thank you.

There's not much I can do about it anyway. And no, I'm not making peculiar sculptures out of my mashed potatoes.

[Oregone]

7. Any alien race that could reach earth may likely not be so nice

An advanced, enlightened race would first tend to their own before venturing out into the sky. A species benevolent enough to allow humans to exist may never had been able to prioratize space flight while being too busy solving starvation, health care and housing for their people. War and the militarization of space would be the most likely reasons for encouraging space flight and development.

On edit: If a benevolent, enlightened species did reach earth, they may prioratize the needs of the animals and environment over humans and exterminate them anyway.


Now that Im done with baseless generalizations, carry on :)

[liberation]

11. I think that if we were to be fully intellectually honest...

... humanity, as it stands right now, could not really construct a good case as to why we should be allowed to exist.

In fact, that could very well a possible scenario: Aliens "discover" us, and they simply ask us why they should not wipe us out. I can't think of any possible argument that could be articulated properly. And that is our tragedy. We are the first self aware species on this planet, but we never bothered asking ourselves what we are all about.

One thing that I am sure that will happen is that the minute the Aliens tell us they're going to "death ray" our asses. Some wealthy fuck will try to buy their way out of that predicament. I can see the expression in the aliens face when this strange creature is offering these random looking pieces of paper with arbitrary numbers in them. That will be the pinnacle of the nonsense that is our existence.

[defendandprotect]

33. Agree our species is "tragic" --

I can't think of any possible argument that could be articulated properly.

One reason may be that they are our ancestors?

If you recall the Bibical accounts, "aliens"/angels mate with earth people --

And, in fact, the Vatican does not deny that the "creators" may be aliens!

Vatican has a lot of alien/UFO info they haven't released -- and looks like US government/

CIA doesn't want it released!!

[kimmerspixelated]

126. Seems like I read something like that...

Not biblically, but something like, we are an experiment, and that some higher forms cross bred us with the apes, and they may be coming back at some point after we've evolved to a higher level, interesting...

[quakerboy]

39. To be fully fair

Why would we believe that a technologically advanced creature would be benevolent? It sure hasn't worked that way for us. If they were so morally superior, where would their drive to go to space come from?

[JoeyT]

44. It sort of depends.

It hasn't worked that way for us, but we may well never get beyond the edge of our solar system for that very reason.
Some people argue that any civilization advanced enough to explore deep space would have long ago gotten past most of their warmongering and other remnants of tribalism simply because the technology required to explore deep space would make it far too easy to annihilate themselves. Civilizations that don't get past the fighting shouldn't make it that far. The drive to explore space could be lack of room on their home world, resources to better the species, or simple curiosity.

Even if they have a bit of a point, I don't buy the argument. It's too easy to imagine a thousand ways a civilization could get around it. (Collectivism, hive minds, etc.) They're also assuming that another species that may have evolved in a radically different environment would think like people do. There are a lot of factions on Earth that would gleefully end humanity (and everything else) all in one go if it would stop a hated enemy from winning a fight, but there's no reason another intelligent species would think that way. Especially if we weren't the first intelligent life they'd encountered. A planet that contained two intelligent life forms could easily produce a bunch of jingoistic psychotic warmongers that only explore the galaxy to cleanse it of life that isn't related to them.

[quakerboy]

48. Or maybe we will, for that very reason

Are we the psychotics of the universe, as per Alan Dean Fosters The Damned. Or are we its jokes, per his book Glory lane. Perhaps we are right there with the galactic norm, as I would interpret Steve Whites Star fire books. Or maybe we are the gentle ones as compared to potential galactic neighbors, though I can't think of a scifi example at this second. Perhaps some of David Brin's work?

I have read that argument as well. I find it great in hope, but lacking in realism. Most of the stories that take that tack have to develop some reason for it, and by and large that reason is not scientifically sound. What would drive any critter out there, of whatever sort you wish to posit may be out there to be friendly to us? Survival of yourself and your own rules the world of biology. So unless they have no reason to compete with us at all, it seems likely to be at best in tension with our drives. And, unless someone can come up with a believable system, I see no reason to believe that life comes about under a drastically different system. Even if you change the chemicals, the basic need to improve and compete for resources is what drives increasing complexity, leading to what we consider intelligence. If something comes to intelligence in such a drastically different environment as to change that equation, how would it recognize us (or us it) as worthy of noticing, much less interacting with. Do you try to talk to rocks or electrical impulses?

In the end, we do not know. But all the systems we have available to us do not, even interpreted in the most favorable light, lead to a high hope that we will be running into a galactic federation of friendly aliens. At best, it seems likely we run into random disinterested parties who may deal with us if they have something to gain.

Or, as seems most likely to me, perhaps there are others out there, who we will never ever meet or even know of because there really is no way to slip around the physical laws that govern us, and they are a hell of a long way off.

[defendandprotect]

91. My guess is" the psychotics and the damned" . . . however . . . .

There is an interest in keeping the universe from being destroyed --

and we're very able destroyers! We seem to keep trying to take nuclear weapons

into space, as well -- something that seems to be a great concern to space ships

visiting our planet -- and ever more vigorously since we exploded nuclear weapons

in Japan!

JFK had quite a todo with Werner Von Braun/Nazi head of NASA over Von Braun's wanting

to use nuclear fuel --!!


Plus, if they have been visitng our planet over hundreds of thousands of years, they

may be our ancestors!

[defendandprotect]

90. But, we were morally INFERIOR to the Native American . . . WE were the invaders,

the murderers and the enslavers!

Howard Zinn has pointed out that the term "In deo" which is what we called the Natives

actually means "people of God."

Read what is said of those people when we "discovered" their land!

And read what violent and deranged and diseased people the invaders were!


As for alien life -- presumably they have been visiting our planet for 375,000 years or more.

They may be as much as a billion years ahead of us intellectually.

They may be our ancestors!

[demwing]

130. Do you have a source for that quote?

I searched the Internets for one, and only found this:

http://progress.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3108681&mesg_id=3109947

Which turned out to be you, in another thread, three years ago.

Funny, huh?

So....about that quote?

[defendandprotect]

132. Wow . . . ever heard of Howard Zinn's "People's History of the US" . . .???

As in . . .

Howard Zinn has pointed out that the term "In deo" which is what we called the Natives

actually means "people of God."


Not "funny" . . . it's sad!!

Your library will have a copy of it -- try it!

[demwing]

140. OK, is there a quote?

And from where did Zinn get this information? Honestly, everything I've ever read states that the indigenous people of America were named "Indians" by Columbus because he thought he was in the Indies. Is there any evidence to the contrary?

[defendandprotect]

149. We also called their women "Squaws" . . . .

which means VAGINA . . . !!!

One source was from the Catholic priests who accompanied Columbus -- from journals --

as I recall it.

And, do you think that all the information you have been offered in your schooling and

in our patriarchal culture is ALL of the truth?

There were 40 million native people here when Columbus arrived so he never "discovered" anything!

And, prior explorers had also reached these shores.

Meanwhile, keep in mind the Papal Bulls, as well -- which I'm not sure that Zinn talks about --

but they advocated the enslavement of the natives, or their death! Same for the African here.

It was impossible for them to enslave the natives -- despite the savagery of the invaders --

and finally they just wiped all of them out. In the case of the African, they were unfamiliar

with the land, languages and it was more difficult for them to evade enslavement.


Start with Zinn's "A People's History of the US" -- you can't go wrong there --

it's a book offered in many college courses.

[demwing]

159. So many questions

We also called their women "Squaws" which means VAGINA . . . !!!

Debunked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaw

One source was from the Catholic priests who accompanied Columbus -- from journals -- as I recall it.

I'm not asking for you to tell me, I'm asking for you to show me, please.

And, do you think that all the information you have been offered in your schooling and in our patriarchal culture is ALL of the truth?

No. Nor do I accept something just because I read it on the Internet.

There were 40 million native people here when Columbus arrived so he never "discovered" anything! And, prior explorers had also reached these shores.

True dat. But since I didn't say Columbus discovered anything, I'm unsure why you brought up the point.

Meanwhile, keep in mind the Papal Bulls, as well -- which I'm not sure that Zinn talks about -- but they advocated the enslavement of the natives, or their death! Same for the African here.

Oh yes the Papal Bulls. Whuh?

It was impossible for them to enslave the natives -- despite the savagery of the invaders -- and finally they just wiped all of them out. In the case of the African, they were unfamiliar with the land, languages and it was more difficult for them to evade enslavement.

Yes, they were very horrible, and slavery is bad. So we were discussing linguistics, right?

Start with Zinn's "A People's History of the US" -- you can't go wrong there -- it's a book offered in many college courses.

I'm familiar with the work, but not the quote about "In Deo".

[Bert]

171. Dont waste your time

This person is obviously a crackpot and I have put her on my ignore list. Besides claiming that she knows that aliens are among us and how many specific species there are of them she also claims that MAN physics is a problem, leading to the conclusion that FEMALE physics would be good and somehow superior to MAN physics. Try putting her on your ignore list as she obviously has more free time to spout disinformation than most of us have time to try to correct her.

[quakerboy]

141. Or maybe they are the slow witted children of the universe

Having made their way to space purely by dint of many many years and some good fortune, and if we make our way out there and meet them, it will be like trying to talk to inbred little yappy dogs.

Or maybe we are their ancestors, merely temporarily lapsed in our knowledge, but the true seed of all universal life!

Thats what happens when you speculate with little or no factual basis. You can end up at any conclusion you like.

[defendandprotect]

150. The MIR is in low earth orbit . . .

We are earthbound due to the Van Allen Radiation belts --

Astronauts are lucky that they survive the MIR experience --

On the other hand, who has been stupid enough to destroy their environment, their planet?

I think that's us?

We've done great harm to the Ozone layer -- Global Warming --

and 300 years of male physics produced . . . atomic weapons!


As the native woman from the Bikini Islands said as she watched us nuke her homeland . . .

"Americans are really smart about really stupid things" -- !!


Until we overturn the ignorance, stupidity and violence of patriarchy and its systems --

organized patriarchal religion which underpins it and capitalism -- we are doomed to the

same fate as a "bird with one wing"--!

[sudopod]

154. Van Allen belts?

It's ok, we have polyethylene.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=polyethylene+radiation+shielding&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=2edb0d09f429b650

and MIR has been gone for a while now.

[defendandprotect]

155. Then onward to the moon once again . . .

All space is ours --

Oops! think Obama just cancelled that --

The history of the MIR is that astronauts -- particularly males -- were

coming off of it into wheel chairs. And that was in low earth orbit.

Females, for one, are more able to withstand the rigors of space -- but

needless to say that info was overlooked.

But now that we have polyethylene all is saved!!



:rofl:

[quakerboy]

162. If there are aliens out there

who are so awesome by comparison, they probably stayed home smoking the local equivalent of pot, having realized long ago that attempting to control everything by knowing everything and going everwhere and all that is a waste of time, and figuring out some meditation would be a much better use of their time and resources than space flight.

[sudopod]

166. If you've looked into your navel and found the universe

you should probably clean it more often.

[quakerboy]

168. If you look into the universe and find your navel

you might need to lose weight?

[Bert]

170. You really are out on a limb

While I may like some of your views, the term male physics is a bit of a misnomer. Do you think physics was invented by man? Do you think the laws of physics would be different if there were more women physicists both now and historically? You also claim to have personal knowledge of there being around 350 different alien species? Cause I have personal knowledge that it is more like 283. Really you are doing liberals no favors by claiming to have personal knowledge of aliens on earth or making the assertion that males by virtue of being the majority of physicists both now and historically have caused physics to somehow be evil. Physical laws are what they are and female physicists believe in the same laws as male physicists. You are on my ignore list.

[Ian David]

70. "We give good head," might work. n/t

[defendandprotect]

89. ...and would add love the comment about our artificial dollar bill ....

a yardstick we use to judge the "worth" of the planet, nature, animal and human life!!

Nice post --:)

[kimmerspixelated]

125. Your post rocks.

But still, I can't imagine what they would want with us, to even warrant a death-ray wipe out. They must be SO far advanced that we are just smart monkeys to them. It would be like visiting a zoo. They'd take pictures and store it in their brain producing a hologram for the ones back home. They couldn't possibly want to take over our horribly toxic planet, unless they landed in New Zealand or someplace like that...hmmmm???

[Cleobulus]

40. How do you solve starvation, health care or housing on a planet with diminishing resources?

You say war and militarization are the most likely reasons to encourage space flight and development, I say you are wrong. Think of the Earth as an island that, at the moment, can sustain its current population, but will it be able to sustain a growing population 50 years from now with no access to resources outside of itself? We always talk about "saving the environment" but frankly people don't even know what that means. Should we kill off most of the population of the Earth to preserve the ecosystems left on this planet? Because, honestly, that is what its going to take, there is serious doubt that we have enough available arable land on this planet to sustain the current population indefinitely, and due to climate change and erosion, that amount of land is decreasing.

So should we encourage slash and burn or slash and char agriculture? Destroy all the remaining forests and jungles left on Earth? We are already killing the biosphere of the planet to sustain our civilization, not to mention destroying our access to fresh water and destabilizing the climate.

So what are we supposed to do? Go organic? That's not a solution to feed soon to be 7 billion people. And let's not even go into standard of living, we cannot raise the standard of living for all those people using just the resources available on Earth, that simply isn't possible. The most we can hope for is people in the developed world to reduce their standard of living, and I don't think most of them would go for that, do you?

There is no free lunch on this planet, to extract a resource or produce energy, a cost has to be factored in, and usually its the destruction of some ecosystem or the pollution of our land, water and air.

[Oregone]

114. Why would an "advanced, enlightened race" expand beyond the capacity of their planet?

[Cleobulus]

117. It depends on what you mean by either advanced or enlightened...

Basically any civilization is automatically non-enlightened in your view, because the biggest source of civilization is agriculture, which is highly destructive to the environment and leads to population explosions. Basically I'm assuming you would prefer if we went back to the hunter/gatherer days of 10,000 plus years ago.

[Oregone]

119. Civilizations can develop sustainable living

(If not, whats all the bullshit talk about these days? Wouldn't it be more honest to just start developing suicide cults and recognizing utter doom?)

But rampant overbreeding and just plain dumb levels of consumption just simply are not what *I* consider characteristic of advanced or enlightened civilizations

[Cleobulus]

121. We already are past the point of sustainability on this planet...

Even if we were to have NO population growth from this point on, a stable global population, we will not be able to continue feeding that population indefinitely. Hell, the only reason why we have as many people as we do right now is because of the Green Revolution, which itself is based on cheap access to oil to provide us with enough food to live. Now we are hitting the point where we won't have enough oil in the near future, and there are NO replacements for it, none. Biofuels are a waste of time and take up valuable farmland that would be better used to grow food, not fuel, solar, wind, nuclear, are for stationary power plants to produce electricity, not portable forms of fuel, and each one of them have negatives attached to them that make them impractical to replace all fossil fuels in all their uses.

Not to mention that we have changed the climate, and will continue to change the climate in possibly catastrophic ways that can't be prevented in the next century or so. Desertification is becoming a problem, we may have destabilized the climate in ways that will increase famine, change ocean currents and threatens agriculture.

Look, if we want a sustainable population on this planet, then we will have it, whether we want to or not, the problem is time, we need time to allow the population to decrease without a die off, at least 3 generations worth, and that's assuming we institute a "China policy" worldwide, NOW. Problem is we aren't talking about doing that, hell the population is still growing, and if what geologists are saying is right, we have maybe, and this would be pushing it, 50 years left in current levels of oil consumption that is practical to consume. Once that's gone, at least half the population of Earth will starve to death.

[defendandprotect]

134. Only a few years ago, Pope was telling the Italian government -- standing in

ront of them -- that they had to start making Italian women have more children!

Was it for love of a child on one's knee? For a child's laughter ?

Did he offer assistance to women or families -- child care? No --

It was for future of labor -- growth of business -- !!

[hack89]

136. Expansion and colonization have been cures for overpopulation

on earth - aliens may look at things the same way. What if they became scientifically advanced as a result needing to solve their "overbreeding" problem?

[Oregone]

137. And what if they became militaristic at the same time to obtain more resources?

Expansion, colonization, and militarism all come hand in hand, and its linked directly to not being able to live within the finite resources available to a population. This causes conflict, naturally (among humans)

[hack89]

138. You'll get no argument from me.

I for one don't think contact with an alien race would be good for Earth.

[Oregone]

139. It might be fine for earth...just not good for humans

:)

[defendandprotect]

153. For a long time . . .

abductees used to recite having been warned of environmental disaster --

and damage from nuclear conflict --

Evidently, those warnings stopped -- and some presume that it is already too late

to save the planet.

[defendandprotect]

152. All signs are that . . . .

aliens have been visiting earth for tens of thousands of years --

that's what the European cave drawings relate --

And, in fact, when Columbus first got here, one of the first questions the

native Americans asked was about the "sky gods" --

Columbus denied any knowledge of it!

Obviously, during all of that time we have not been attacked --

There is some speculation that there is mining --

And there may be a need for our genetic material -- DNA -- or they may be trying

to keep us from total extinction?

[defendandprotect]

151. While solving our "overpopulation" problems we wiped out the native American . . .

Heartland? We moved "whites" in to run rampant over Native American lands --

killing them.

How could anyone not be "scientifically advanced" if they can navigate space?

And conduct interbreeding programs with abductees?

Whether those programs are a matter of continuing our humanity in the universe or

a matter of their needing our genetic material, there is only more speculation.

Unless government has the answers to these questions?

Keep in mind, however, that the UFO/alien/Roswell issues have a higher classification

than the atomic bomb!

[Bert]

172. One characteristic of an enlightened civ.

This would be zero population growth. And also to keep that population down to a level where you dont dominate the entire planet and wipe out most of it's species just so you can have 20 kids. This is something I fear humanity will learn the hard way if we learn it at all.

[defendandprotect]

133. Some suspect that they may have had prior involvement with systems

or practices which did them damage?

That they need our genetic material --

and if they are watching the end of the life of this planet, that we may need

their help in carrying our DNA off into the universe?

If the planet does survive something like a pole shift, 10,000 years from now

those "abduced" may return?

[boppers]

64. Hate your species much?

If humans were endangered, would you have more compassion?

[defendandprotect]

93. What is it that you sympathize with re humans . . . ?? That we've destroyed this planet?

That we've destroyed the ozone layer?

That males studying physics for 300 years finally came up with . . . the atomic bomb!!

That we dropped atomic weapons on Japan?

That we have polluted the oceans -- actually at times with nuclear waste?

That we have invented nuclear power plants which have the potential to kill us all?

That we have invented systems of violence which threaten most of us and which are suicidal?

From "Manifest Destiny" to "Man's Dominion Over Nature" --

Patriarchy and its underpinning, organized patriarchal religion -- and its system of capitalism

are all based on exploitation -- not only of nature, but of natural resources, animal-life --

and even other human beings according to various myths of inferiority!

Maybe our latest ventures in war and torture have impressed you?

Or maybe it's our intelligence?

:eyes:


A native of the Bikini Islands watched as we dropped atomic weapons for testing on her

homeland and commented -

"Americans are really smart about really stupid things" -- !!!

[Bert]

173. Yes

I have respect for certain indiviuals but as a species we are a plague upon the earth and it more probable that we will kill ourselves than require some aliens to. It may be poetic justice for the evil we have done to other species, each other and the very planet we live upon.

[onpatrol98]

27. Too funny!!!

:tinfoilhat:

[defendandprotect]

35. Some suggest such a meeting already happened . . .

under Ike --

Back to 1957, LBJ was prouncing the moon as "the highest hill" and certainly "Star Wars"

and our attempt at that isn't about protecting us from anyone on this planet!

[Plucketeer]

9. I've always had that notion

Not stealing any of Hawking's thunder, but if you really think about it, let's say that a race "out there" had a dastardly leader like Dick Cheney come to power. You think they're gonna approach us with grace and grand intent? They might play nice until they "felt us out". Then I think they'd wreak havoc on us if we had anything they could plunder.

There's any unimaginable number of life forms that have evolved on other outposts. It would be really arrogant ignorance to presume we could have an upper (or at least equal) hand in any association with them.

[defendandprotect]

36. Presumably they could have destroyed us long ago if that was their purpose ....

If they've been around 375,000 years, why would they bother destroying us now?

They may be our ancestors?

And, I used to think in terms of "a race" -- another species or 12 -- evidently the

astronauts used to refer to them as the "Heinz87" varities?

Others talk about more than 300+ species --

Evidently we're in some tiny corner of the universe -- to be eventually united with the

rest of the universe?

[pattmarty]

10. Picture "them" meeting the fucking teabaggers, they would either .......

............run or blow the shit out of them.

[POAS]

12. I'll worry if they show up with a cook book! n/t

[Rozlee]

15. To Serve Man.

Awesome.

[atomic-fly]

13. who loaded the Stranglers on his IPOD?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSO2wfW0fyQ

[theorbiter]

14. And the.....

parade of usual suspects will be along to call Mr Hawkings a woo woo, poo poo, wee wee and pee pee and all other sort of "intellectually" driven insults for thinking outside the box in 3....2....1....

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

16. I hope the aliens look like...

Leeloo

[and-justice-for-all]

17. It is more likely that if anyone is transversing the universe...

they would be hostile. They would have to be, since it is only reasonable to prepare the worst and the unexpected.

But it is far to late to keep ourselves from being noticed, since we have been beaming signals into space since the first television broadcast. Earth is like a huge radio beacon and those broadcast are being sent into every direction of space and will continue on forever.

Not to mention Voyager I and II are still sending signals back to Earth and are now headed into deep space.

But space is a big place, and so are galaxies so the odds of a galaxy traveling species finding us, is slim to none. Space is just to vast and the distances between stars is similarly vast.

I have no doubt that space fairing species exist, because the number of opportunities for such species to arise is endless.

If they do receive our broadcast and they are hostile, they most certainly will not make their selves known to us until they arrive.

[smoogatz]

21. If they're smart enough to get here from another solar system,

they're probably smart enough to vaporize us with their neutron-blasters if we don't hand over the Earth's supply of Cubic Zirconia, which is a necessary component of the matter-inversion drivers that power their spaceships and which is, inexplicably, all but impossible for them to manufacture on their home planet. Meanwhile, a competing race of Draconoids arrives, and start making little growly yummy sounds every time they spot a man in a toupee.

[Tikki]

19. Mr. Hawking may very well be correct.....

Tikki

[tclambert]

20. It could be the Vogons who show up, with a permit to build a hyperspace bypass. The Earth must go!

That might work out better than if the Goldmanacorico Sachsapatorians show up with a registered deed claiming ownership of the Earth.

"But we live here!" the pitiful Earth Humans will cry.

"Our purchase predates the existence of you pitiful Earth Humans," the aliens will haughtily reply. "You have 60 days to vacate the planet."

[NorthCarolina]

26. Earth; destroyed by intergalactic eminent domain laws. n/t

:wtf:

[quakerboy]

42. It would seem ultimately appropriate

would it not?

[Generic Brad]

23. I Would Take My Chances

We all know the saying "Curiosity killed the cat". Well, I am a curious cat.

[OnyxCollie]

24. KILL THEM!!1!!(eleven)!

[Duer 157099]

25. Frankly, I think they are trying hard to not be noticed by us

I think they probably abandoned us a long time ago when they discovered that their breeding experiment went horribly wrong, and they tried to wipe all their fingerprints away and snuck away one night--after leaving some silly decoy Books to keep their retarded spawn entertained and afraid--forever looking over their shoulders wondering when we're going to come calling.

[defendandprotect]

37. Well, it looks like they know we've destroyed this planet .... and universe could be next!!

Evidently, we keep trying to send nuclear stuff into space --

That was a big argument between exNazi Werner Von Braun and JFK --

Von Braun wanted to use nuclear fuel!

[WinkyDink]

65. What's with the "ex"?

[defendandprotect]

80. That should have been in quotes . . .

as in "ex"-Nazi . . . we are to believe . . . Werner Von Braun --

[tXr]

29. Of course they have to destroy the Earth.

It's obstructing their view of Venus.

[defendandprotect]

30. Of course, Hawking is correct -- but he's peddling the same ole fear mongering ....

Hawking claims in a new documentary that intelligent alien lifeforms almost certainly exist

We've been aware of alien visitation since at least Roswell and it's believed that

the Germans probably captured an alien space ship before Roswell.

The aliens -- some say something like 320 different species of them -- may have been visiting

this planet over the last 375,000 years. We may be hybrids.

Bob Dean says that they are not only more intelligent - they are a billion years ahead of us.

Seems we are on the outskirts of a populated universe and eventually are to be united with it.


And Hawking thinks that they haven't yet "discovered" us -- Wow!

[Cleobulus]

32. Where do you get your information, from the voices in your head?

Oh damn, why am I responding? You put me on ignore because I called you a nutball, my bad, please, carry on with your "truth". :)

[Q3JR4]

60. Sources please.

Could you please provide sources for all of this...ah...I guess one could call it "information" you're spewing.

I too could start walking around talking about how humans come from Mars and that our Martian ancestors are watching us from their cloaked ships that are hanging out above alpha Centauri but if I did that I'm sure someone would call me a nut ball.

Q3JR4.

[defendandprotect]

95. I'll try to help you . . .

First, on the "fear mongering" --

Try to get hold of an original hard copy of "The Day After Roswell" by Lt. Col. Philip
Corso -- you'll find articles from interviews with him on the internet -- all are interesting.
Some of the info wasn't in his book --

But, the original edition had a foreword by Sen. Strom Thurmond who said that he had long
known about Roswell and the aliens and where he recited his fears. Later, aides for
Thurmond denied what he had said.

Since 1957, at least, LBJ and those he spoke for, spoke of the moon as "the highest hill" --
I've quoted that speech a number of times at DU, you might find it. If I have time later, I'll
see if I can repeat it for you.

Star Wars -- especially as presented by PNAC, which I presume you are familiar with? -- all
put forth notions of militarizing the skies.

In fact, we still seem to be trying to take nuclear weapons into space -- and JFK had quite a
go-around with Werner Von Braun/NASA where Von Braun wanted to use nuclear fuel!

Presume here that you also doubt Hawking? But I'll try to give you some info, nonetheless.


A new book a year or so ago by Jim Marrs -- "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" -- is very interesting
in regard to how advanced the Germans were and the speculation that they had captured a flying
saucer long before Roswell -- which means that they would have also been trying to reverse
engineer it.

And, btw, there are many witnesses involved in Roswell incident -- including viewing of alien
bodies. We can also see that immediately afterwards the residents were heavily intimidated by
the military -- and many have been intimidated yet again even after so courageously having told
what they knew in these recent years, long past Roswell.

Marrs also suggests -- just as an aside you may be interested in -- that the Germans had actually
produced atomic bombs -- one or two. And, that we took them over and that was what we dropped on
Japan -- the third one was evidently one we did construct.

As for theories about alien species, I think Bob Dean is a good source on that -- and he has
many articles and videos on the internet. Go to UTube and look him up. If I have time later,
I'll try to resurrect one of his videos for you.

I'd always presumed we were talking about one other class of alien -- the idea that there were
many didn't occur to me until I realized that the astronauts themselves were referring to them
as the "Heinz87" varities. Bob Dean suggests that there are hundreds.

You can also look to the Bible for references to "alien" visitations and their co-habitating with
earthlings. Questioned on this, the Vatican fails to deny that the sky gods may have been "aliens."
Evidently they have a lot of info on UFO's and aliens which they often mention and mention releasing,
but it seems the US government isn't in favor of that.

I've also read that when Columbus first arrived here the first question the natives asked him
was about the "sky gods" and sightings/visits -- and Columbus denied having any knowledge of it.

So -- good luck in your search!

I'd also highly recommend your library -- if yours doesn't have a lot of info on Crop Circles --
"Circular Evidence" is an excellent book by Andrew Collins -- or UFO/sightings -- abductions --
try the library in the town next to yours.

You should also find Lt. Col. Philip Corso's book there if it's a good library.

[Vattel]

34. since no one has any idea how life arose here,

claims about the prevalence of life elsewhere in the universe are highly speculative.

[defendandprotect]

38. They may be our ancestors -- we may be hybrids . . .

[Joe Bacon]

45. Reminds me of the Von Daniken stuff from the early 70s

Which has been refuted by Carl Sagan and others. Also see Ronald Story's "The Space Gods Revealed" which refutes Chariots of the Gods page by page.

[WinkyDink]

67. And just why should I take such "refutations" at face value? E v. D. is extremely learned in ancient

languages and histories.

[jberryhill]

71. He's also pretty learned about financial fraud and the insides of jail cells /nt

[defendandprotect]

85. Do you want to be more specific in your accusations?

[jberryhill]

88. Sure, he's a career criminal...

http://en.allexperts.com/e/e/er/erich_von_d%C3%A4niken.htm

Von Däniken first appeared before a magistrate while still a boy, charged with stealing money from the Boy Scouts. In the early 1960s, in his mid-20s, he was convicted of defrauding the hotel where he worked and also of petty theft, for which he was fined.

In 1967, at the age of 32, von Däniken was convicted of large scale embezzlement, forgery and tax evasion, and spent three and half years in prison. During his time in prison he wrote his second book, Gods from Outer Space (published in 1970).

[defendandprotect]

97. OK . . . thank you --

This is what I found at Wiki --
and they go on in another area to mention faked evidence.


Legal troubles
Däniken's run-ins with the law started at an early age. In the 1960s, while working in hotels and restaurants across Switzerland, he was convicted of fraud, serving a prison sentence for defrauding his boss at one hotel. In 1967, soon after Chariots of the Gods was published he was arrested and charged by Interpol with fraud and tax evasion for non-payment of GB£7,000.<3> During the investigation, authorities uncovered a large personal debt totaling about GB£350,000. Däniken was found guilty of embezzlement, and served more than three years in Swiss prisons. While in prison, he continued writing, and 'Return of the Gods' was subsequently published. <4>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken


Additionally . . .

The evidence that Däniken has put forward to support his paleo-contact hypotheses can be categorized as follows:

Artifacts have been found which are alleged to represent a higher technological knowledge than existed at the times when they were manufactured. Däniken maintains that these artifacts have been manufactured either by extraterrestrial visitors, or by humans who obtained the necessary knowledge from them. Such artifacts include the Antikythera mechanism, Stonehenge, the statues of Easter Island, and the Piri Reis map.

In ancient art throughout the world, themes are observed which can be interpreted to illustrate astronauts, air and space vehicles, non-human but intelligent creatures, and artifacts of a high technology. Däniken also points out details that are similar in the art of unrelated cultures.
Origins of religions might be a reaction to contact with an alien race by primitive humans. The humans considered the technology of the aliens to be supernatural and the aliens themselves to be gods.

According to Däniken, the oral and literal traditions of most religions contain references to visitors from "stars" and vehicles traveling through air and space. These, he says, should be interpreted as literal descriptions which have changed during the passage of time and have become more obscure, rather than as symbolic or mythical fiction. One such is Ezekiel's revelation in the Old Testament, which he interprets as a detailed description of a landing spacecraft.


Certainly not all questions of alien visitation have come from von Daniken --
and I don't find his speculations dismissable. Everyone has to decide that for themselves.

We have 20,000 year old cave paintings -- stone carvings -- and many cultures which give
testimony to these visitations -- including today!


A few scientists, such as Carl Sagan and I. S. Shklovskii, have written about Däniken's paleocontact and extraterrestrial visitation claims. Although Sagan did not rule out the possibility of visitation, he insisted that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence",<5> which Däniken fails to provide.

As I've said before, Carl Sagan was never going to say anything controversial . . .
and though he could not rule out visitation he did dismiss the wide spread reports of
alien visitation and abduction all over the planet.

Again -- little of this is dependent upon the views of one person --




And, while I missed it last week, I understand there is a new series on TV which purports
ancient aliens as ancestors.

Saturday night 8-12pm Alien History - History Channel?

[defendandprotect]

84. Agree . . . and I think they just did a new series on his work . . . didn't they?

Something about ancient aliens being ancestors which I missed last week --

Btw, my son said the older series "Taken" had been on some cable channel recently --

Amd that was a really interesting series for informing the public of prior info --

bringing people up to date if they hadn't been exposed to Roswell, etal previously --

and as a review it was terrific -- but some new stuff at the end!!

Great Candadian cast --

You can rent the series -- though my library doesn't have it so far --

[defendandprotect]

81. Carl Sagan was obviously never going to say anything controversial . ..

and, of course, many of the scientists have been intimidated.*

Presumably, Roswell/Alien life, etal are under care and guidance of the CIA.

As we know from President Carter and President Clinton, Roswell and questions re

alien life have a higher classification than the atomic bomb!!

I've never seen Ronald Story's "The Space Gods Revealed" -- why don't you give us

the gist of his counter-evidence to Van Daniken???

1000% of what I see by the nay-sayers is totally inane -- but give it a try!

Also -- and we should probably dig them out again -- but there are various memoes

by CIA on their attempts over decades to ridcule the UFO/alien life questioners.




* For but one example, the guy who worked on the Crop Circles from the beginning --

wrote the book on them -- "Circular Evidence" -- which was on the Queen's list and

eventually he visited with either Philip or Prince Charles to explain the evidence ....

He has quite courageously made clear that he has been threatened by our CIA.

They offered him a million $ at the time -- but they told him that if he didn't decide

to work for them as a denier that they would destroy his work one way or another.

[WinkyDink]

66. Condescending to this world-class genius, are we?

[defendandprotect]

87. I think evolution makes quite clear how life evolves . . .

what we don't know is the original source of energy for the universe --

"since no one has any idea how life arose here"

and that's speculation based on intelligence in the universe only being as dumb as we are!

The Vatican evidently has tons of info on UFO's, etal -- and have often mentioned releasing

it, but US doesn't seem to like that idea.

Bibical renditions clearly indicate "aliens"/angels reproducing with earthlings.

And Vatican doesn't deny that --

[sakabatou]

46. We know that already, Hawking.

[Akoto]

47. To paraphrase the movie "Contact" ...

"If we're the only people out there, that seems like a lot of wasted space."

[flamingdem]

50. He's dissing the aliens

not a great way to start things out! Now they'll never come visit.

[onehandle]

51. Supporting my long claim that aliens have never been here because...

...they would have either consumed our resources once they got here or taken over and tried to help us.

Neither would have been great for us.

Aliens have never been here. Period.

[jayfish]

53. Any Civilization Capable Of Interstellar Travel...

would likely posses the capability to synthesize anything they required from it's atomic components. The piddly resources available on this rock wouldn't even rank compared to what would already be available in their home star.

FSH

[Q3JR4]

61. Isn't there a big ol' cloud of

rock and dust orbiting this solar system? Why even bother with the apes on the third planet from the system's sun?

Q3JR4.

[WheelWalker]

56. Your facts just as readily yield the conclusion that we are they...no?

[WheelWalker]

54. We are the travelers Hawking warns us about... QED

[Klukie]

77. maybe

interesting thought

[defendandprotect]

98. Very likely so --

[frogmarch]

55. He's right.

If ET is out there, I think we Earthlings should pretend we're not home.

[No Elephants]

58. Luckily, it won't be a stretch for earthlings to pretend nobody's home.

[defendandprotect]

99. Sadly hilarious!!

[No Elephants]

57. Our ideas about aliens seem very provincial.

Why do we assume aliens would be visible to the human eye? Or that we would recognize them as aliens? Or, that they would act like Chris Columbus? Maybe they're already here. For all we know, flesh-eating bacteria or mosquitos are aliens. Or yeast. And why would they want to come here, anyway?

As far as aliens' being potentially dangerous to us, hello, did we really need Hawkings to tell us that, when we've had Hollywood? Apart from ET and Close Encounters of the Third Kind, they've generally been a bad lot.

;)

Thanks a lot, Hawkings. Just what we need these days. More fear of aliens. Terra! Terra! Terra!

[superconnected]

62. I agree. I have yet to meet someone that could handle aliens looking like humans - since we know

that evolutionary tract exists, I think it's a likely chance it's happened more than once. But every time I mention it people squirm and suggest the aliens look like movie aliens - something we don't have proof that exists. I can go all ways, bacteria, human looking, little green men but likely not from mars, and slime creatures... well hopefully not slime creatures. I'm glad Hawking's acknowledged there is likely life out there. I have met plenty of people opposed to that idea even though we're an example of life existing on a planet in outer space.

[defendandprotect]

101. There is some speculation that the "grays" are a form of artificial life????

but your post also made me wonder at the right/wing Creationist reaction to Hawking's news!!???

[Phoonzang]

78. Actually the program covers the possibility that we wouldn't

recognize some forms of aliens. He was just talking about the ones that are like us...the ones with grasping limbs, the ability to build spaceships, and a thirst for conquest.

[progressoid]

79. What?

You mean they aren't going to look like this:

[defendandprotect]

100. Nice post . . . great points . . . but . . .

I really didn't think either ET or Close Encounters made them "bad" . . . ???

Did I miss something?

Not that I think anyone enjoys abduction . . . but I mean "bad" as destroying humanity/planet?

:)

[callous taoboy]

68. Especially if they have their own religion and declare us all "infidels."

[Ian David]

69. The aliens will leave us in peace if we give them Stephen Hawkings' giant brain. n/t

[jberryhill]

72. It's a typo - He meant "Elaines" - Elaine was his second wife

...and he wants people to avoid contacting her.

[lunatica]

73. I watched part of one of those programs and didn't like it at all

They made any thought of life anywhere else to be way too alien and weird. It fell flat for me. I felt like I was being squeezed dry of any sense of adventure or curiosity. The alien creatures they imagined were even kind of repulsive. And I'm a Science Fiction fan who is quite willing to accept that alien life can come in every strange shape imaginable.

[Javaman]

74. Personally, I welcome our new Alien overlords. nt

[Jamastiene]

83. I am certainly in no position to vehemently disagree with a genius of his caliber, but

I'm going to anyhow.

I think he has it backwards. The aliens should fear our fucked-up, violent asses and run the other way. Meeting us might be dangerous for them.

After all...

We'll just bomb them, capture them, experiment on them, brainwash them, stick them in designer clothes, make them fat with Quadruple-Size-Me shitty food, call them names, then give them fertility drugs so they can have a litter of 18 baby aliens for us to point our fingers at and laugh...and that's AFTER we dissect half their families and try to make boner pills out of their DNA...

...and that is if we decide we like them. Never mind what would happen if we didn't like them. They don't even want to think about what we'd do then.


I really think Mr. Hawking has it backwards in this case.

[jberryhill]

96. He's not a social scientist, so feel free

[Selatius]

160. I think you have it backwards. If they mastered interstellar travel, they probably have bigger bombs

If you're so technologically advanced to the point of star hopping, your weapons technology is probably vastly superior to anything humans have in their arsenal.

[Uncle Joe]

86. Cool, I made a post # 85 to that effect on this thread.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8160179#8161181

Thanks for the thread, Duer.

[Stumbler]

92. My two cents

In terms of the Columbus analogy, we'd be the ones who suffer from the microbes brought by our visitors, much as the Native Americans lacked resistence from European diseases brought by the explorers. But more importantly, I think most intelligent life would stay far away from our screwed up little planet. Residual radiation from our nuke-tests decades ago, pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, allowing our waste to be dumped into our oceans, etc. They'd probably expect us to exterminate ourselves before too long, so it's not worth the time and effort to establish contact.

[Bragi]

94. Once aliens see we're doomed, what then?

I think an intelligent alien life form would quickly surmise that a small proportion of the people on this planet are using the available life-sustaining resources in a way that is unsustainable.

If they have a sense of ethics and care about other life forms, they may decide to intervene covertly or openly to force a more sustainable system on our retrograde selves.

Alternately, they may just move on and leave things as they are, or decide to use our resources themselves and just eliminate us because we are a dysfunctional species.

It's an interesting observation by Hawkings, one which has triggered an interesting discussion here.

[defendandprotect]

102. They've warned us and continue to warn us . . .

according to abductees . . . re destruction of planet --

and the dangers of nuclear war --

Evidently, we seem to be past the point of the warnings, however --

If you were ever interested in the Crop Circles you might have seen a few where

planet earth is missing from our solar system!

Meanwhile, there is also speculation which results from the abductions which seem

to have been going on via entire families since the early 60's -- and that seems to

be something like 1,500 Americans a year -- is that they need our genetic material

for some reason and that they are also using it to building hybrid/alien-human species.

And with further possibility that those who have been abducted and who have contributed

to alien families will be whisked off the planet if/when it becomes necessary --

Solar Shift being one of the prime reasons.

Also, returned to planet 10,000 later?

If planet survives?

[Zorra]

103. They're already here. and they are like like an AIDS virus killing the planet.

They ravage the environment in wanton gluttony, greedily consuming everything they possibly can to fill their insatiable need to possess and consume more and more.

They're commonly known as conservatives.

[AngryAmish]

104. The Consu probably already know all about us...

[Evasporque]

105. CLOSE THE BORDERS!!! nt...

[woo me with science]

108. Demand proof of birth on Earth. nt

[John Kerry VonErich]

112. Hawkins underestimates humanity as a whole

If it came down to it, humanity is just too resilient. And will fight to the last man.

[Bragi]

115. Actually, that's kinda funny

"We will fight to the last man" indeed. And then what?

You are confusing pugnacity with resilience.

In doing so, I fear that you illustrate why we are likely doomed.

[John Kerry VonErich]

116. We as humans are more prouder than our own good than you think.

It just very rarely comes out.

[Nihil]

143. And that bit certainly didn't come out in English ...! (n/t)

:crazy:

[Bert]

169. Your right!

I saw independence day too! We'll show those aliens! Dont mess with Earth! We'll infiltrate their mothership and disarm their spaceshields and all on the fourth of july!

Actually, there is always the possiblity that intelligence and benevolence have a corelation or that intelligence and brutality have a negative corelation. Either way we would be meat if they wanted to destroy us. This question has been raised in the original day the earth stood still just for starters and contrary to what some posters think there is no proof that aliens have ever been here. Occam's razor if you know what I mean. The aliens could love the diversity of life and therefore merely get rid of humans while letting the rest of the earth flourish, possibly putting us in a zoo. They could see us as a potential threat but we are still a long way from interstellar travel. I think if you look at our history too much you forget that aliens may be nothing like us, a fact that Hawking seems to have forgotten. His ability with physics doesent give him godlike knowledge which is what he would need at this point since we have no way of knowing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

113. great analogy

[GoddessOfGuinness]

118. I look forward to the show; but coming from Hawking, this statement seems over simplistic

Encounters with aliens could be anywhere from deadly to enlightening...just like encounters with other species on Earth, including humans.

Like humans, they could be bent on destroying our civilization and replacing it with their own.

Like humans, they may want to reach out to their neighbors, and help them to achieve their full potential.

Like humans, they might be fascinated by various life forms and want to study them.

They may even feel that human beings are a relatively insignificant life form compared to whales or cockroaches.

[Cleobulus]

120. He may have a point, of course, if such aliens with hostile intent wanted...

to kill us it wouldn't take much, hell, they wouldn't even have to show up here, at least initially. If they are capable of interstellar flight then all they would have to do is send a single ship, unoccupied, to Earth, to collide with it at a significant fraction of the speed of light. There is literally nothing we could do to stop it, and it wouldn't even have to have explosives on it to kill us, the kinetic energy alone from such a collision would probably melt the crust and throw most of the atmosphere up into space.

[Baclava]

127. WE know what they want - Earth chicks are easy

[whosinpower]

128. Another thought to ponder

given that we are imagining all sorts of scenes regarding aliens....

Maybe, they have already been here, continue to come for whatever reason, and are uninterested in communicating their presence to us.

Because we are a warlike species, and are intensely competitive against the other nations, any contact to any one tribe/nation/group would mean certain trouble for all the others. As a species, we cannot agree on ANYTHING. Perhaps it would be best to not make contact with us because it would mean war - not human vs alien - but human vs human - fighting for favour, fighting for technological advantage, and on a nuclear scale that would pale WW2.

We are not ready. It WOULD be too risky.

[fascisthunter]

129. oh no Stephen... now the conservos will accuse you of being

"crazy"... lol.

[The abyss]

135. This is a cool story that begs for some GGA images

<>

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[BadGimp]

142. after watchin 2 seasons of Torchwood via Netflix online instant viewing...

I have to say I agree with him.

The ones that are already here or have been here for a while, are either well intentioned, benign in intent or waiting things out. Hell we ain't gonna find out till it's all a played out anyway right?

But any new other world species that discovers us now, will be more likely to be nearer to our level of evolution. And let's be honest DU'ers, collectively as a species we don't impress. Think Afghanistan (USSR), Iraq x 2 (US) etc, etc, etc. Anyone see the footage of the 2 reporters being killed in Iraq? Proverbial tip of the iceberg stuff. So they will likely do with us what they choose.

I'm hoping we do not have any encounters in my life time. Odds being what they are an all.

Pleasant dreams.

[tclambert]

146. Not to worry. We have casinos pre-built and ready for the aliens to lose their home planets.

We can introduce the aliens to tobacco, too.

[Thor_MN]

161. While I respect Stephen Hawkins, I would suggest that conservatives are the bigger relative risk

Come on, we know that they are already here and intend to do evil..

[Baclava]

163. Don't forget the nuclear tests in space like Starfish - 'Here We Are!"

Starfish Prime high-altitude nuclear test explosion in course of Operation Dominic on July 9, 1962. Yield 1450 kilotons.


The Starfish Prime flash as seen through heavy cloud cover from Honolulu, 1,300 km away.


Bluegill Triple Prime shot, 1962, altitude 50 km (31 mi)

[dpbrown]

165. Humans are stupid. We'd end up being farmed like cows by aliens who got here

Hey, maybe they're already doing it.

[24601]

167. Anti-Alien Teabagger!!! n/t