Local NYC board backs plan to build mosque near Ground Zero

[sabra]

Source: USA Today

After hours of emotional public comment, a New York city community board has voted overwhelmingly to support a plan to build a mosque and cultural center near Ground Zero.

Opponents of a proposed Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero hold signs during a community board meeting to debate the issue. i

"It's a seed of peace," board member Rob Townley said. "We believe that this is significant step in the Muslim community to counteract the hate and fanaticism in the minority of the community."

The vote late Tuesday by the Manhattan Community Board was 29-to-1 in favor of the plan, with 10 abstentions, the Associated Press reports.

Some in the crowd held carried pictures of victims of the attack, others carried signs reading: "Show respect for 9/11. No mosque!"

...

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, director of one sponsor of the project, said he understood the anguish, but noted that his group had condemned the 9/11 attacks and that members of his community and congregation were also killed that day.

"We have worked to ensure that our mosques are not recruiting grounds for terrorists," he said.

Read more: http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/05/local-nyc-board-backs-plan-to-build-mosque-near-ground-zero/1

[pampango]

1. "Imam planning Islamic center, mosque near Ground Zero rips Tea Party's Mark Williams, other critics

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/05/21/2010-05-21_untitled__2mosque21m.html

"The Imam planning an Islamic community center and mosque near Ground Zero says his critics are bigots and the project will stamp out terrorism - not fan the flames.

"We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it," said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is leading the charge to build the Cordoba House. "We want to rebuild this community," he said. "This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution."

The meeting came one day after Tea Party Express chairman Mark Williams called the project a monument to 9/11 attackers "for the worship of the terrorists' monkey-god." Williams later issued a ham-handed apology to the "millions of Hindus who worship Lord Hanuman, an actual Monkey God."

Although there have been critics, including some relatives of 9/11 victims, the Cordoba project has the support of virtually every lower Manhattan politician and Community Board 1. "There's been a tremendous amount of bigotry associated with this," said CB1 president Julie Menin. "If we've learned any lesson from 9/11, it's to respect people's religious freedoms."

Good, smart move by the New York community board. Shows the US at its best. Bet this riles the tea baggers and repub base.

[nyc 4 Biden]

2. K&R

[fatbuckel]

3. So do we stop Christian churches from going up in places because some Christian Nutjob

(or Nutjobs)does (or do) something stupid?

[AlbertCat]

5. So do we stop Christian churches from going up ....

Well, I'm for that!

Do something useful with the money. Like give it to fund stem cell research.


Why doesn't someone build a MEMORIAL to the DEAD of 9/11, regardless of their religion or lack of it?..... it's almost been 10 years now. (I know I know... the museum and memorial is planned to open in 2011)

[awoke_in_2003]

34. too paraphrase Benjamin Franklin

"this country could use more lighthouses and less churches"

[mikelgb]

4. they should have a huge minaret

[AlbertCat]

6. they should have a huge minaret

I know.... twin minarets! 110 stories...all glass!

[Hosnon]

7. Why the hell not? nt.

[Scurrilous]

8. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Bo]

9. Out of RESPECT...why build there?

Is there a Japanese monument in Pearl Harbor ?

I don´t know it just seems to infuriate people I would think Muslims had more sensitivity in NY.

[emilyg]

10. Agree. Think of the families.

[jberryhill]

38. Yes, think of the families of the Muslim victims of the 9/11 terrorists

...being told that practice of their religion is not welcome anywhere near where their own innocent family members were killed.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

60. Please see the other responses to Reply #9.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

11. japan is a country, islam is not a county. there are a large number of american muslims

who had nothing to do with 9/11. this is not a foreign country we are talking aobut

[burnsei sensei]

64. While Islam is not a nation-state,

it is, indeed a country.
Islam comes out of a tradition in which the separation of church and state is completely alien.
Though it is a religion, it has serious legal and political dimensions.
And these must be addressed, and given the Western critique in light of Western experience.

[TommyO]

13. Would the same objections be levied against a Christian church or Jewish temple?

No, therefore objections to the mosque are nothing but rank bigotry and hatred.

[awoke_in_2003]

35. have to agree with you...

although my first reaction was "WTF?". I quickly got over that.

[riderinthestorm]

42. I would. I don't want a mosque built there.

I believe a multi-cultural, multi-faith (and no-faith at all) center devoted to peace would be a much greater contribution than another religious shrine. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hindu, Buddhism, etc. etc. - all would be welcome to come and meditate, see photos, leave notes or memorials - whatever.

Having a single religion claim that place, a central, highly public place, near such a culturally significant area such as the World Trade Center calamity that had such global implications is dead wrong, imho. It's the absolute worst message to send on many levels.

[Posteritatis]

44. Do you know that this isn't actually on the site, or are you just kneejerking? (nt)

[No Elephants]

57. They are not building on Ground Zero, only in the neighborhood, so they are.

not claiming anything but the right to build a place of worship for their own use on real estate that they purchased for that purpose. The same is true of the strip joint and porn shop that are in the same neighborhood (to which no one objected--They haven't claimed Ground Zero either.

This is not about respecting Ground Zero. It's about hating 1.4 billion Muslims because 19 Muslims of the 1.4 billion Muslims flew into the World Trade Center in reaction to our mid-East policies.

People are still free to fill every inch of Ground Zero with whatever they choose. For the past decade, they seem to have chosen nothing but bickering.

Please see also Reply 56.

[Jamastiene]

14. Because not all Muslims are terrorists.

Or don't you already know that?

[CBGLuthier]

15. The people it "infuriates" are not worthy of RESPECT.

Why cater to the bigots of america?

Are you really comparing the actions of a nation's army to the actions of 20 to 100 people who were of a particular faith?

[Bo]

18. Who is REALLY funding this multi million $ project? Saudis?

Will women be allowed in the community center? Or will it be separated by sex?
Why not build and INTER FAITH center if they wanted to start a healing process.

I can understand how it would look like the Islamists are thumbing there nose at Ground 0.

[TommyO]

20. I can understand how it would look like the Islamists are thumbing there nose at Ground 0.

You're just buying into the right-wing, anti-Islam rhetoric.

I think Hannity's show is on now, shouldn't you be listening to him?

[jberryhill]

51. Would you object to a gas station?

That Saudi money comes from somewhere, you know.

Al Qaeda has engaged in terrorist attacks in Saudi, too. Are they confused, or is there something you just don't understand at a very basic level?

[No Elephants]

59. How things look depend upon the persons looking and, often, which filters they are looking through

If you hold all 1.4 billion Muslims responsible for 911, then building a mosque anywhere might look that way.

As far as women, those questions apply to all mosques, not only this one. And to some Orthodox Jewish temples, too. The Old Testament includes sexism. Always has, Maybe even some fundie Christian churches, too, because the NT carried forward the sexism of the OT. However, in the U.S.,stuff people do in their own places of worship because their holy book requires it, falls under free exercise of religion, unless it violates a religion-neutral law.

Heck, we have American men and women dying {supposedly} to strengthen Iraq and Afghanistan, two nations under Sharia law, and making Saudi Arabia and all mid-Eastern oil nations obscenely rich for a century, and suddenly we're going to quibble about seating in a mosque in Manhattan (but not temples or churches) out of pure principle?

Not plausible.

[Posteritatis]

16. What's disrespectful about building a mosque several blocks away? (nt)

[jmm]

19. Out of RESPECT...let's not profile Muslims or support the idea they're all terrorists.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. Muslims in the WTC were among the 9/11 victims.

Not to mention those acting as first responders that day.

[Jamastiene]

26. They don't even hear us.

I fought with some of them earlier this morning. They absolutely will not acknowledge that not all Muslims are terrorists. Sickening to see.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. And like many homophobes, they won't be TSed.

[jberryhill]

49. I'm shocked /nt

[jberryhill]

39. There are SIX JAPANESE RESTAURANTS AT PEARL HARBOR!!!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=japanese+restaurant&sll=21.355,-157.972222&sspn=0.061792,0.077162&g=pearl+harbor+hawaii&ie=UTF8&hq=japanese+restaurant&hnear=Pearl+Harbor,+Ewa,+HI+96818&ll=21.372603,-157.963228&spn=0.059786,0.077162&z=14

Not to mention a Shinto temple:

Izumo Taishakyo Mission‎
215 North Kukui Street, Honolulu, HI‎ - [phone]‎
Category: Churches Shinto

[No Elephants]

56. Why is NOT building a place of worship any more respectful than building one?

Japan is a foreign nation. Islam is a religion. A monument is also different from a place of worship.

Since when do we ban churches when a group of Christians, say the KKK or pedophile priests do something wrong?

Government approval of prejudice against races, religions or ethnic groups is never the way to go.

On edit: Please see also Replies 31 and 57.

[tranche]

12. Too bad a spotlight makes a controversy.

If I would have visited the sight say 10 years from now and noticed a mosque, I'd be like, "wow... this is kind of neat". But, now it's a wedge. Too bad.

[Xenotime]

17. Maybe this will start the healing process...

This and pulling out of illegal and foreign wars might just do the trick.

[No Elephants]

58. How will banning a mosque start a healing process?

[Odin2005]

21. That is really stupid. VERY bad PR move.

[pampango]

22. Why? Moderate Muslims are the Islamic terrorists' worst enemy. Most Muslims are fine people.

Why penalize them?

[lynne]

23. Bad idea. It is disrespectful to the families of those who died there -

- and is disrespectful to the memories of those who died there. People of many religions died that day and - like it or not - they died at the hands of an extremist sect of the Islam faith. I fear this will breed more violence. Ground Zero should be a place of peace and reflection and NO RELIGION AT ALL should be represented there.

[Jim Lane]

29. The proposed mosque isn't on the WTC site, it's just in the neighborhood.

You say, "Ground Zero should be a place of peace and reflection ...." I'm not criticizing that goal, but you can buy a pizza closer to Ground Zero than this mosque would be. Is pizza consistent with your vision of peace and reflection?

Also, if you say no religion at all should be represented there, then there are some Christian churches on the nearby blocks that will have to be closed.

My point is that we can maintain Ground Zero for peace and reflection without throwing a blanket over the whole neighborhood.

[Posteritatis]

33. It's barely even in the neighborhood, either - isn't it two or three blocks away? (nt)

[Stephanie]

52. Two blocks north and not even visible from the WTC site

Map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=45+Park+Place+new+york&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=45+Park+Pl,+New+York,+NY+10007&gl=us&ei=l7v_S6DmPML-8Abwh-HGDQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ8gEwAA

45 Park Place - the northern border of the WTC site is at Vesey Street. Much ado over nothing.

[Jim Lane]

53. Thanks for the map -- that really helps clarify it. (n/t)

[awoke_in_2003]

36. "Is pizza consistent with your vision of peace and reflection?"

It is mine- but then I live in the part of the country where it is hard to get good pizza :)

[pinboy3niner]

40. Members of THIS Muslim congregation died on 9/11

The congregation has BEEN in the neighborhood for a quarter century:

"Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, a leader of the Cordoba Initiative, said he has been surprised by the vitriolic debate, since he has led his congregation ten blocks north of the World Trade Center for the past 27 years. His mosque lost several members on 9/11 and distributed bottled water to firefighters afterward.

Rauf said he plans to meet with the 9/11 family members who do not support the Cordoba House.

Rauf said emphatically that the center was “not a mosque. Though it will contain space for up to 2,000 Muslims to pray, it will also host many athletic and cultural events, possibly including the Tribeca Film Festival, he said. The Cordoba House may also include a memorial to those killed on 9/11.

“We want to rebuild this community,” Rauf said. “This is about the vast majority of moderate Muslims who want to be part of the solution.”"

Read more:

http://dnainfo.com/20100520/manhattan/politicians-rally-against-tea-party-bashing-of-world-trade-center-mosque#ixzz0p5qQ2O9l

This was posted by tammywammy yesterday in a related thread:

On Joy Behar, whack job Pam Geller spouting off her opposition to a mosque
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8426169

[junior college]

25. Muslims deserve to be represented down there after how they were treated

in the aftermath of 9/11. And the silver lining is that xenophobic, right-wing jerks will be pissed off. You gotta love it.

[boppers]

27. Put a mosque IN THE FREEDOM TOWER.

While they're at it, put in a chapel and a temple (or two, jewish and mormon).

Lets see religiously-based terrorists try to justify destroying their own religion's places.

[JCMach1]

28. Horrific reporting by the MSM on this story

For the people against- they showed the nut-job racists having their say.

In terms of reviewing the reasons for- I had seen the story playing for days before one channel finally clarified that it is 2 blocks from 'Ground Zero'... many outlets were reporting 'at' ground zero. That's a pretty important distinction. Did they even show any other arguments for the building?

the FOXification of the MSM marches on.

While I probably would have voted against it if I were on the council, I would have to trust the local authorities here. They voted 29-1 in favor.

[name not needed]

30. Funny how it's people that live outside of NYC that have a problem with this.

[emilyg]

43. The families are opposed -

don't tell me they all live outside of Manhattan.

[Posteritatis]

46. "The families" are not a monolith and anyone suggesting otherwise is a fool. (nt)

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

31. I'm sorry--how is the opposition to this not out-and-out bigotry?

From everything I understand, this mosque would be for a mainstream congregation of Muslims. I don't think there's been any indication that this is for a terrorist front group or Al Quaeda sympathizers.

Would there be any objection if instead of a mosque, it was for a church or synagogue? Of course not.

"But neither Christianity or Judaism attacked us on September 11th!" would be the likely response.

To that I would say, yes, you are correct. Christianity and Judaism did not attack us on September 11th.

But neither did Islam attack us on September 11th. Just a small sect of people who misappropriated a legitimate religion for violent and hateful purposes. And that is something that every religion can fall victim to.

Furthermore, this site isn't even at Ground Zero--it's several blocks away.

So again, I have to ask--how is the opposition to this not simple and unadulterated bigotry and small mindedness.

[Bill McBlueState]

32. if there shouldn't be a mosque nearby,

then there shouldn't be churches or synagogues nearby, either. They all worship the same god.

[NYC Liberal]

45. Wow. Some very interesting responses for a supposedly Progressive

message board. Sad, actually.

There is NOTHING wrong with this. Should we not build churches near places where whacked out Christians murdered people because of what they thought their god wanted? Same with synagogues?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. du is consistent that way

[Forkboy]

61. Yeah, at least one of them was someone I formerly had respect for.

No longer. Bigotry and friendship with me don't mix.

[christx30]

55. I don't care

what they build. but it's been 9 years. Build SOMETHING there. Mosque, office building ect. That scar on the city is depressing.

Edited to add:
Later I found out that the site for the new mosque is two blocks away from Ground Zero. I still feel the same about it. Muslims want to get a mosque on Manhattan island. It's not even Ground Zero. I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with it. This is a very emotional issue, and I can understand how some people would be against it. But everyone deserves peace and a place of reflection. This mosque is here. There are Christian churches on the island too.

[Forkboy]

62. Cool. To hell with the bigoted naysayers hiding behind the "what about the families" canard.

As if no Muslims died at WTC that day. Apparently, both buildings were stuffed to the rafters with clean, white Christian folk.

[yurbud]

63. some people will only be happy if NYC is like Mecca in reverse: no Muslims allowed

and then they will extend it to the whole country.