Tensions run high as (Bush) visit ignites clashes (Brawl in Boston)

[RamboLiberal]

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=1529

A brawl erupted between opponents and supporters of President Bush last night behind police barricades a block from his fund-raiser at the Park Plaza Hotel.

Two Bush supporters, twin brothers Matt and Aaron Margolis, traded blows at the corner of Arlington and Boylston streets with several men who they said were union members.

The fight started after a man wearing an Ironworkers Local 7 sweatshirt, perched atop a subway entrance, repeatedly taunted the brothers.

`They told us to get out of here or we'd get beaten up,'' said Matt Margolis, 24, of Beverly.

[RandomKoolzip]

1. I'll be the first to say it on this thread:

"I thought he was a uniter, not a divider!"

[rocktivity]

15. Bush IS a uniter

He's united everyone AGAINST him.

:headbang:
rocknation

[JoFerret]

53. Here are some uniters united

[KansDem]

67. Actually, Bush meant to say "igniter..."

As in igniting brawls like this one.

[BOSSHOG]

2. He's a Uniter, not a divider. He changed the tone.

[tlcandie]

3. Here we go!! Tensions rising...its hitting home HARD and it doesn't

look like it will be a pretty picture :/

From the linked article:

<snip>
A crowd estimated at 750 to 1,000 was largely anti-Bush, including hundreds of union workers.
``Bush wants to get rid of unemployment (insurance) and overtime - we need to get rid of him,'' said Charlie Walsh, a Local 223 laborer.
The Bush opponents held signs that read, ``Get the terrorists out of the White House.''
<snip>

<snip>
The clashes followed the detention of two protesters who refused to move to a designated protest area before Bush's speech earlier in Nashua, N.H.
<snip>

[Kathy in Cambridge]

4. I was there

Earlier I handed out enlistment forms to the dozen or so white college boys and girls who were there to support Bush. The union guys muscled them away from the police barricades so they had to cross Boylston St and stand away from the crowd because they were scared! :cry:

I did my part and harassed them.

The union guys were giving them grief the whole time during the protest, and at one point the cops had to stand between some union guys and the wussy Bush supporters.

On edit: here's a link to my thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1290754

[rockymountaindem]

7. Where's our "pansy-liberal" stereotype now?

I hope this doesn't devolve into 1920's Germany-style street fighting. If it does, I'll be there, all 5'7'' of me.

Not the size of the dog in the fight by the size of the fight in the dog.

[calimary]

55. Handed out enlistment forms!!! BRAVO!!! BEYOND BRILLIANT!!!

RationalRose, I salute you!

What a SUPREMELY, SCATHINGLY BRILLIANT idea!

I gotta get me some... If they love the damned war so much, then by all means, let 'em go join the fight. Then our guys held hostage over there, like Mari's stepson, could come home!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

56. You should have seen the reactions

hilarious-one said he was too young, one said he had already served, and the others gave me looks like they were above serving their country. Rich white preppy asses.

[calimary]

102. Cool! You're not the only middle-aged lady with the fake Louis Vuitton

purse out there, either. (LOL!)

I love this. I'm loving this whole week! I felt so good I ordered TWO double-cheeseburgers yesterday from the lunch truck outside, for myself and my spousal unit. And then we toasted each other. He's all atwitter about the "Billionaires for Bush" site, which I just discovered here at DU today. Says it appeals strongly to his sense of the absurd. It's a good day.

Besides, everywhere I went, running errands this morning, I closed out my transactions with "vote Democrat!" I did not get ONE objection. But I did get several versions of "you bet I will," or "we've ALL got to" or "Man, you said it." I even had one person respond - "thank you for your activism! It's great!"

[cdeca]

114. Link please....

I, am just starting a new job and cannot access inet as much as most (I am in the "shut up and do what you are told mode for at least the next 6 months" at work). I cannot spend as much time here as I would like! Please email link to [e-mail]

[stevedeshazer]

66. Here ya go

http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD0004.PDF

Just print this out.

I've used this many times...whenever I see or hear a young Bush supporter. Just hand 'em one. Shuts 'em up every time.

[duhneece]

80. You are brilliant

Just when I'd put, "Go to Recruiter & pick up enlistment form" on my to-do list, you offered the site. I've printed it and will use it wisely!
Thanks.

[Just Me]

86. VERY creative means of forcing "thought" back into the arena!!!

I am printing them out for use!!! This is an example of one of 1,001 ways to effectively dissent *LOL* without breaking any laws!!! Methinks it is a good time to start a list of these effective, legal measures!!!

[calimary]

104. Hey, Just Me, was it YOU who suggested the post-it note strategy?

If so, GREAT IDEA (again!) and one worth repeating! Applause!

[calimary]

101. Bless your heart! Thanks for this (she said, cackling...)

This and the post-it notes with "Lies" written on them - to stick into one of the rightwingers' books at the book store - the two best ideas of the day. If I had awards to give out, you'd get one.

[schultzee]

85. Brilliant! Where did you get the forms? I'd like to do that one.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

5. THERE WERE ONLY A DOZEN BUSH SUPPORTERS! I HAVE PICS!

FUCKING LYING HERALD!

:grr:

[stepnw1f]

13. F* The Herald

I call it the Nazi Paper! They domb down that paper just so the common blue collar will get sucked into it. More and more people though are aware that the paper sucks, due to its lack of content.

[pinto]

105. one point, this common blue collar has voted Dem all his life.

as have many. And the Herald is a rag.....

[stepnw1f]

115. This Blue Collar

Has too.

[southpaw72]

59. Herald is a rag

.... everyone knows it's best used for wrapping fish or lining bird cages.

that headline about "Kerry's 5 mansions" on Tuesday. wtf, slightly partisan?

[CBHagman]

62. Can you post your pictures?

Details! We want details!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

65. I have to get them developed, scan them in,

since I don't have a digital camera. I will post late tonight or tomorrow morning-I'm really busy today.

[BOSSHOG]

6. Sissy Massachusetts Liberals kicking ASS?

Thanks boys, warmest regards from Southern Mississippi!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. This petite gal was kicking verbal ass

I almost made one of the Bushie girls cry! WAAAAAAH!

:cry:

[goforit]

8. Way to go Union Guys!!!.....It's time to bully the bullies!!!

Just a little taste of their own medicine!!!

[CaptainClark23]

9. Don't feck around w/ the Ironworkers.

Even if they are a bunch of commie, homosexual-lovin' peaceniks...

because after all, isn't that what anyone who opposes Bush is?

My old man was with Ironworkers Local 40 here in NYC. I grew up around those guys. A more patriotic and passionate group would be hard to name.

I'm proud to be on their side, and grateful for them to be on mine.

[Dhalgren]

14. If it gets down to street fighting and the unions come out,

the RW penicil-necks are in for some serious trouble. It will make the cops take a long, hard look at what they are doing when they are looking over their riot-shields at burly, hard-working, union toughs who won't go down easy. I was in the Boiler Makers Union, back in the early 70's - and let me tell you, some of those guys scared the shit outta me. Of course I was pretty much on opposite sides of the political divide from them at that time, but if they come over to our side (or we to their's) then Mr. Bush's "roundheads" had better bring more than sticks and pepper-sray, because they will need it.

[JaySherman]

16. I hope it never comes to that.

Because then there WILL be literal blood in street, and it will mean our country has reached the point of total catastrophe.

[Dhalgren]

22. We are already there.

We just haven't started fighting back yet. In many of the antiwar protests and at the various antiWTO marches there have been "blood in the streets". The only problem has been that the blood was mostly ours. At some point the "people" will start fighting back, because no one, any longer, believes that the good of the country is being served by those in power - not even the Bush supporters believes his government is for the "good of the people". It boils down to how much we can take before we "snap". How much?

[JaySherman]

28. Sorry, but you have no idea what blood in the streets really is.

Nor can I really picture it, honestly. There hasn't been real blood in the streets yet. Not to sound cold, but some people getting beat up and mishandled by the cops (much as it angers me) is not really blood in the streets. The police haven't started shooting (live) bullets and the right-wingers haven't literally started cracking liberal skulls. The National Guard hasn't been called in yet. Think Kent State. People may "snap" at some point, but let's do everything we can to keep it from getting to that point first. How much are we going to take? That's up to us to keep it from getting that far.

[Dhalgren]

29. I understand, and I am not taking this lightly.

But, if we continually shrink from fighting back, we will lose. You may say that we will lose anyway, and that may be so, but I would rather lose, fighting, than lose laying down. We are up against people who don't mind killing and imprisoning anyone - anyone. They have no morals, no ethics, and no qualms about breaking the law whenever they see fit. These are people who are one beer stein away from putting people in concentration camps (heard of Gitmo?). We cannot deal with them as though they simply disagreed with us politically - those days are gone. These are neo-nazis. Not the kind that wave swazstikas, shave their heads and wear jack-boots, but the kind that kill innocent people, steal from everyone and crush any opposition. If we don't fight them, then I hope none of us have problems with tatoos...

[JaySherman]

35. Obviously.

And I'm not taking these people lightly, nor am assuming that we can necessarily deal with them in any kind of rational way. But unless you lived through the 60's, or something like Tianemen Square, it's impossible to imagine what a nightmare blood in the streets really is. It's the ultimate nightmare scenario. But it's safe enough to say it has not come to that yet. We should keep our guard up, with both fists. But any rational person can see it hasn't reached the point of open warfare (which is that you appear to be talking about), concentration camps, and "L" tattoos yet. There are still options available to us (at least until November). Let's exhaust those first.

[Dhalgren]

52. I did live through the sixties (and the early seventies

which in some ways were worse) and spent some time in jail for it. I know what blood on the streets is and I know that when it's your blood, or your sister's blood or your neighbor's blood it strikes home harder. I won't dismiss the bloodshed that has already taken place - if it had been my father who had been beaten to the ground by uniformed thugs in Miami I would not appreciate someone belittling that. If it had been my wife or my sister who had been shot with "rubber" bullets in San Fransico during the antiwar marches, I wouldn't appreciate someone saying it was less consequential. I understand your position, I just don't agree with it. We appear to be nominally on the same side, so let's let it go at that.

[prolesunited]

58. I don't agree that the two of you

are "nominally on the same side." It's not outcomes, but tactics, in which you differ.

Everyone has different personal boundaries for political activism. For some, it ends with writing letters and making phone calls, for others, it is marching in the street in a permitted protest and obeying police guidelines, while some will risk arrest through civil disobedience. It's a full spectrum that ends with violence and property destruction, which seems to be where you're ready to go.

Each person has to decide where their line is. I don't think it makes someone more or less committed to the struggle because we all have a role to play and something to contribute to the cause.

Personally, I would NEVER engage in violence. I ascribe to the models set forth by King and Gandhi. Are you going to tell me I'm not on the same side as you? Neither would I pass judgment on you for how your conscience leads you to wage this battle.

We have the same goals, just different paths we are taking to get there.

[Dhalgren]

63. I think "nominally on the same side" is correct.

When some natives went to the reservation when they were ordered there by the Whites and others chose to fight it out, those two groups were "nominally on the same side" - they just reacted to the White man differently. I think I actually took issue with the 'degree of blood shed' thing. When it's your head that's been craked open it can seem pretty severe. I think that non-violent protest deffinantly has a place in the spectrum of resistence, but if the group that you are up against has no qualms about killing you, it may prove less than effective. This country appears (at least at present) to be evenly divided between those who support Bush regardless of his actions and those who oppose him because of his actions. Non-violence might work better if there were a large group in the middle who would be galvanized into action by the sight of the martyrdom on a non-violent activist, but that large group doesn't appear to be there. If the Bush forces crush a non-violent protest and that action changes nobody's mind, then it was a waste.
These are people who are breaking into your home to murder your family - that is how I have begun to view them. What should be the response?

[yardwork]

72. No making light of this,

but it may be to our benefit that half the National Guard are in Iraq right now.

[CaptainClark23]

19. In my family's old neighborhood

You were either a Cop, a Fireman, or Union Construction worker.

Here in NY, at least, the general demographic of the NYPD is one that is cut from the same cloth as the Ironworkers. Now, this doesn't mean that there could never be a dust-up (recall NYPD and NYFD brawling eachother down at Ground Zero, I knew the City was back to normal and would stay strong!), but when push comes to shove they will close ranks.

We all need to stop seeing the police as blind footsoldiers of the BFEE. They are men and women, and our friends and neighbors. Alienate them, make them the enemy, and they will respond in kind, they have to.

Come convention time, we need the police on our side. Cops aren't some wealthy elite, making profit from policy. They suffer under the BFEE just as the rest of us do.

[Dhalgren]

26. You are absolutely right!

Many cops will join with their brothers and sisters when the hammer drops. Most of them will not want to fight against their neighbors and relatives for the rich, neocon, aristocracy. They should be welcomed with opened arms.

[CaptainClark23]

40. Same, but different

You say we should welcome them with open arms, and I agree, but need to make a distinction which might be semantic but seems important to me.

They are not going to "come to us" to be welcomed. We need to proactively embrace them. Tell them, show them that we are on the same side.

It HAS to start with us. We must be the peacemakers. We must be the active uniters.

See you in the Streets.

[Dhalgren]

49. I don't disagree with you, at all.

Keep your eyes open.

[librechik]

21. we need more burly union members

this ain't the 50s anymore...

Thanks for showing up and speaking your minds Massachusetts!

[bearfan454]

39. I was in Local 2697 USW in Gary Indiana in the late 70's and early 80's.

Those guys didn't take any shit at all. Unions are not as powerful as they were, but they are still around and will still fight to the death if they feel threatened.

[KansDem]

73. "If it gets down to street fighting and the unions come out..."

"Bloody Thursday"

[schultzee]

87. Bu$h is putting it into the Union workers and the middle class and

those expensively clad, perfectly manicured republican men really have on idea what its like for the Union people. We could have a civil war in this country. Which side are you on boys?

[xchrom]

10. payback for florida

or just blow back for a selected junta?

[tlcandie]

11. Has anyone seen the horrible fights and such going on in Russia

with the skin-heads and extremists? They are literally beating people up in broad daylight and threatening them. I'm not sure the extent of it all, but was quite distrubing. Sounded like they were having a tough time trying to control all the anger against Muslims and other non-citizens.

NOTE: Heard/saw this on LINK TV's Journal last night at then end...a special report. I've tried to search it out, but can't locate the actual story :/

EDIT: This was mentioned because I hope it isn't a precursor of what is to come here in the US.

[BiggJawn]

12. It may well be....

When you see something as threatening your ability to "put food on your family" it isn't gonna to defuse things by condescendingly explaining how outsourcing is a Good Thing, and you all just need to RETRAIN for the "Service Economy"...

I'm thinking I wouldn't be adverse to standing with some pissed-off Union members, either.....

[schultzee]

88. We are on the same side. White collar now outsourced and bush

says outsourcing is good for America.

[Dhalgren]

17. This could get really, really ugly before it is over.

And we have to show backbone in this thing. If the veterans and the unions get out onto the streets "taking no shit", then everybody - and I mean everybody - has to buckle-up and get on the street. There won't be a "next time" if we don't.

[RandomKoolzip]

20. I have a feeling 2004 is shaping up to be 1968, part 2.

Already, there's HAiti, the revelations from Clarke, the failing Iraq occupation, the scheduled Repub convention in NY around the time of the 9/11 anniversary, Spain's terrorist attack and subsequent Socialist victory, increasing polarization in the US and all over the world, now fighting in American streets......the elements are all in place......And it ain't even April yet!

[OKNancy]

27. I hope not - Nixon was elected in 1968

Think long an hard about the consequences and don't let agitators
(moles) have their way.

[Dhalgren]

30. Right, it's always the "outside agitators"

when someone fights back.

[mouse7]

107. Nixon elected because of traitorous screwing with Paris Peace talks

Nixon manipulated the failure of the Paris Peace Talks right before the '68 election. Humphrey was leading by a pretty decent margin until the collapse of the Paris Peace Talks days before the election.

[The Stranger]

51. It's a bit surreal, and I never thought it could ever happen again.

But I underestimated the incredible stupidity of the right wing, and their endless need for secrecy and control, their unquenchable greed, their unmatched arrogance. They have done it again. Enough regular everday people are angered again politically that street violence has erupted once again as a result.

[Fovea]

60. I saw a sliver of the Chicago riot

and never really regained any semblance of trust for authority.
Yeah, this could be even worse. There is 20 years of dirty politics and culture war against the majority of Americans.

When that snaps, fire and blood could easily exceed 1968, with some important differences.

The gated communities will burn, not Watts.

[tom_paine]

98. Except if the Busheviks murder ONE MORE DEMOCRATIC POL...

They should know (COMMENT REDACTED)

[bearfan454]

45. You got that right.

This country is finished if these crooks sneak in again.

[schultzee]

91. Unfortunately it might take another 1968 to make them listen to the

average American citizen

[Tracer]

23. Billionaires for Bush

Here's an enjoyable story from this morning's Boston Globe.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2004/03/26/billionaires_for_bush_well_yes_and_no/

[smirkymonkey]

46. I just ran into "Billionaires for Bush"

last night at a town hall forum in NYC - they were handing out info, so I took some and am checking them out. It's a really novel approach and I think we need more groups like this. Pointing out injustice through irony - somehow, the less direct approach seems to make more of an impact on the "unconverted".

If anyone wants to check them out (Billionaires for Bush, Government of, by and for the Corporations, Phil T. Rich, Co-chair) go to:

www.billionairesforbush.com

[Sinistrous]

48. Billionaires for Bush. -- Love it.

Maybe I could start an old bald guys for bush movement, but I can't think of anything sardonically ironic enough to make it work.

[truthspeaker]

57. They were at the March 20 Saint Paul protest too

Shouting "We want wealth care!" and "Four more wars!"

[underpants]

24. OFF the top rope

A demonstrator leaps into the air as he pummels an effigy of President Bush (news - web sites), below, during a protest against Bush's policies during a visit by the president to Boston, Thursday, March 25, 2004. On rival John Kerry (news - web sites)'s home turf, President Bush defended his record on both the jobs and terrorism fronts on Thursday and prodded the Massachusetts senator against taking his own state for granted at a $1.2 million fund-raising dinner in Boston. (AP Photo/Steven Senne)

[rocktivity]

34. Speaking of "pummeling effigies of Bush"

I took this during last Sunday's New York City peace march:



More

:headbang:
rocknation

[Kathy in Cambridge]

42. That same guy was at the protest last night!

too funny! He was with his kids.

[rocktivity]

50. Well, it's the same effigy

I can see now that it's wearing the same T-shirt. Can't wait to see your pics!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Kathy in Cambridge]

25. Here is a link to a FReeper Blog about the incident.. Bunch of elitists-

look at how they speak about the union guys!

http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/index.php?p=444

[Ganja Ninja]

32. LOL These guys kill me.

from the article: "And let this be known: the Boston Police Department did not break up the “scuffle,” it was other people in the crowd and from both camps. After this, the Boston Police Department was great. They protected us, the vastly outnumbered majority, from the lazy, drunken, vulgar union workers. And unlike in New York City, the BPD had no problem with me carrying a sturdy wooden flagpole."

The vastly out numbered majority?????

[Kathy in Cambridge]

43. Yeah, ALL 12 OF THOSE SISSY ASSHOLES

I've got the pics to prove it!

[calimary]

61. Lazy, drunken, vulgar union workers?

Those "lazy, drunken, vulgar union workers" build your homes and office complexes, police your streets (at the risk of their own lives), put out your fires (at the risk of their own lives), fix your toilets, and bag your groceries.

Nobody special.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

64. And they call DEMS ELITIST? PUH-LEEEZE!

:eyes:

[schultzee]

93. How I hate those born with a gold spoon up their brains rePIGS.

They are the most compassionless, unchristian, parasites on the backs of the people who work hard for a living.

[calimary]

103. Also - they're born with a golden spoon up their asses.

Definitely up BOTH those places. What arrogance! How dare they? There but for fortune go THESE greedy, stingey (sp?) people, too. They forget that at their peril.

For some reason, reminds me of the Jay Leno joke (yep, Leno) about Dan Quayle. After bush1/Quayle lost, and they went back to Indiana, Marilyn Quayle went back to Washington with her law degree and got a job there, while Dan stayed home with the kids. Leno joked about that, in the aftermath of the "Murphy Brown" flap, when Quayle had slammed the TV character Murphy Brown for getting pregnant out of wedlock and having her baby and it wasn't a good example of proper, republi-CON-sanctioned "family values." He said Quayle had made a big stink about the evils of single moms... "and now, he is one."

[yardwork]

74. I like the way this Freeper makes fun of the unions for being anti-gay

when the Free Republic home page specifically says that it is opposed to homosexuality.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

75. Incredible

their hypocrisy knows no bounds!

[schultzee]

94. 99% of all Freepers are homophobic.....but never mind

[WLKjr]

113. web site is just like the typical repug site

shitty web design, touting ignorance like it is something to be proud of, your 'white power' links and of course links to buy coutnry music........................I am from the country myself in good Ol' Ohio, and the republicans I know around here(mainly very old farmers, who are conservative but not radical just fiscal which isnt such a bad thing at times)do not act like this. see a repug site is scary becuase it is full of sensless hate and links to links that promote the hate even further and sell copies of "shockin'n ya all" which by the way is a hate spewing cd in itself.


in the words of Casey Casin(if that is how you spell it)"It's f###ing ponderous man, just f@@@ing ponderous! ponderous shit!


btw that is an actual clip, you can find it on the internet, it was a mis recording.

[bluestateguy]

31. We will need our big union guys on election day

They will also be needed to stand up for democracy if the other side tries to do what they did in 2000 at the Miami-Dade County courthouse. Our union guys against their little pissant staffers, and I assure you the votes will be counted. These kids in Boston brought these attacks on themselves, and had they known better than to publicly endorse Bush in Massachusetts this would not have happened.

[CaptainClark23]

36. "had they known better than to publicly endorse Bush"

OK, I gotta remark on this one. They are free to publically endorse whoever they like. Thats kind of the whole point, isn't it?

Politics is a passionate game, and creates divisions, thats nothing new. As well it should be. People should feel strongly enough to fight, intellectually and physically, for what they believe.

If they are brave enough to stand, then stand they shall. And while we might challenge them, strongly and repeatedly, they are exercising the very same rights for which we ourselves fight so hard.

Your position troubles me, greatly. Perhaps I misunderstand?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

44. I agree with their right to free speech, BUT

if you taunt big, burly union guys you have to be prepared to pay the price. See my link to the Freeper blog above. They are a bunch of elitist whiners.

[CaptainClark23]

47. Absolutely

And that is what I meant by being Strong enough to stand.


ah, ok, I see now. BlueStateGuy is saying that if they stand, they should expect overt resistance. Not that they should know better than to stand at all.

Thanks for your efforts up there, btw. Stay strong and stay sharp.

[jean]

41. b*sh has Vance Internat'l on his side - see this item from KOS

More Money to Vance International:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/3/20/185433/933

[yardwork]

109. That's them!

Those are probably the guys who were bothering Rose and others. Plain clothes thugs.

Should they continue at their current rate, by election day the Bush campaign will have paid over $1.5 million to a firm known for high-tech security and surveillance and low-tech picket line thuggery.

[Bandit]

33. I say everyone sharpen your pitchforks

When the people finally get fed up enough those freepers better run for the hills because they won't stand a prayer. They wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of a real American.

[JoFerret]

37. Now imagine NYC

September 2004. The GOP may rue the day. Gonna be ugly. All that united compassionate conservatism galvanised against Bush as well the left.

"Mass for Bush"? Political funeral mass with any luck.

[CaptainClark23]

38. Sorry?

"All that united compassionate conservatism galvanised against Bush as well the left"

Who precisely is going to be galvanised against Bush as well as the left?

[schultzee]

95. Bush is bringing in 1000 heavly armed military. He plans to let

any misbehaving citizens get the full brunt of the law. Could be very very bad.

[CaptainClark23]

99. Easy there

Nat'l Guard being brought in to supplement NYPD, since the NYPD is going to be working the convention and protests. The Guard will more than likely be stationed at bridges, tunnels, etc.

I doubt one will see more than a handful of Guardsmen at any point during the convention. There are already Guardsmen on duty every day within NYC. Since 9.11, NYC has been on perpetual high alert, regardless of what the rest of the country is doing, or what Ridge says.

Even if things get nasty, I assure you the NYPD is well-equipped to handle any contingency. Better equipped to handle violence than the Nat'l Guard.

The Convention is classified as a National Security Event. The presense of Nat'l Guard to supplement NYPD for maintaining the security of NYC is warranted. NOT as riot control. Please correct me if you have more informed sources that say otherwise.

Also, if you have a source for the Guards being "heavily armed", as in above and beyond their normal gear, please provide.

[eyeontheprize]

54. That they were union members is highlighted in this story

for obvious reasons. It proves union members are not only overpaid and lazy, but thugs also.

Everyone has to avoid physical contact, no matter how they are provoked; we will never win that way, never. It will give them an excuse to call a police state.

[Occulus]

77. I'm glad the people who

fought the Revolution didn't feel that way about it....

[Kathy in Cambridge]

78. I was there-the Freeper kids provoked them

there was camaraderie and good will until these spoiled college brats started taunting the union guys. Those little fuckers got what they deserved.

[yltlatl]

68. Ya'll don't seem to understand...

that if history is any guide, this is all gonna have to get a lot worse before it gets better. As much as it scares and sickens me, I personally think that there will have to be REAL blood in the streets before this Nazi juggernaut is finally defeated. I certainly want to see a win for dems this year, but IF it happens it will just be one minor victory in a war that these Fascists have been waging on us for at least three decades. As Clarke said in his testimony, this country doesn't take anything seriously until they see some body bags. I too am of the peaceful persuasion, but even a Ghandian solution has to assume that the peaceful protesters will be hurt and even die in large numbers in order to get the greater political message to be heard--and this is in fact what happened if you check your history on Ghandi.

[drfemoe]

79. Real blood

hey, welcome to DU, yltlatl :hi:

I know this thread is referring to "blood" in US "streets". But I can't help thinking about all the places in the world that see bloody streets daily .. Ira*, Haiti, Palestine, Kosovo, etc etc ...

There is a tipping point for the US somewhere. I don't know where it is, or which way we will tip; but there are plenty of bloody streets around the world already. I don't think we can give ourselves a huge congratulations that, so far, US streets are relatively blood free.

[Karenina]

100. They won't be for long...

What was that about the tree of democracy needing the nourishment of the blood of patriots?

[Bandit]

81. Saw the movie about MLK a few weeks ago and something very much

like what you say was demonstrated in it. MLK went to LBJ and asked for federal troops to escort the marchers on their march from Selma to Mobile and LBJ said he couldn't do it. He said there were going to have to be some incidents to give MLK the publicity needed to further his cause. LBJ was a pretty wise man but also willing to sacrifice for a higher cause. He made MLK realize the worth of sacrifice. We may end up having to do the same thing. There may need to be bodies in the streets to finally awaken America.

[yardwork]

110. I don't think we have to go that far yet.

A lot of independents are saying that * is toast in November. A lot of conservatives are starting to say that!

I think that * will be defeated handily unless the Dems screw up or * does something violent and bizarre.

I know that having Kerry as president is not enough for some folks, but it will be a good start imo.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

69. Free Republic Account of Story: Don't Forget Your Barf Bag!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1105595/posts

:puke:

[Ganja Ninja]

70. Check out the tag lines from some of the freepers...

complaining about "union thugery"

(It's only racism if you're white. All educated people agree on this.)

("I got you in a stranglehold baby, and then I crushed your face"")

(“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)

(Do you trust a government that does not trust you with guns?)

[DiverDave]

71. I gotta show you this:

To: bigfootbob
Saying that we would be without the benefits of the 40 hour work week and overtime pay, safe work places, etc - without unions,

is like saying that without candles, we'd all be in the dark.

Anachronistic and unneeded anymore,

and just like candles, cause more problems than they provide good, useful, practical benefit.

43 posted on 03/26/2004 10:24:57 AM PST by MrB
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies >

Yeah right, Hey Brainiac!, how many jobs are going overseas to enrich your fucken boss?

Brain dead Idiot...Oh, look at my tag line freepers.
Which are you a Rich republican...or a POOR republican?...SUUUCKEEERRRSSS!!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

76. I'm sure that will be deleted shortly

they can't HANDLE the truth!

[schultzee]

96. How I hate these people!

[kymar57]

106. Freeps

Loved this line "You never hear about Freepers getting arrested."

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

83. Freepers instigated

that's all that needs to be said

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dhalgren]

92. The first puch was thrown in Florida in 2000.

When the Pukes sent "thugs" to stop the vote counting. That's who threw the first, freaking punch.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dhalgren]

90. "No patience for physical bullies"?

So let the Brownshirts have their way? The RW has always counted on everybody else being pasifistic, so they could bully and jerk people around and all they would get in response was whinning. Well, maybe we ain't gonna take it anymore, as the song says. Maybe if a couple of RW bullies gets their heads cracked against a wall, they will be less likely to try and push grandmothers and grandfathers around. I don't advocate denying anyone their rights, but I damned well do advocate physically protecting ours!

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElementaryPenguin]

84. Chimpy starting our 2nd Civil War! Man, er, Chimp leaving quite a legacy!

And doin' his darndest to get WWIII started!

:puke:
:argh:
:mad:

[schultzee]

97. He started this stinking Class War when he started office and then

with the ususal republican method accused the middle class and working class of starting it. They own the airways, and if they did not, they would not be where they are now. That is for sure. Honest broadcasting and journalism would have made them run.

[JanMichael]

112. I'm still befuddled how this sort of thing didn't happen in 2000.

But now that we're gearing up for a damned apocolyptic battle I suppose it's about damned time. I hate to to say it but I think it's inevitable at this point, the Right has destroyed the dog and pony show called American "Democracy", now it's a toss-up as to who will be victorious.

This is the one thing that the Right never seems to get through their thick skulls: Other than Franco, when it comes down to brass tacks, the Left always wins.

*Always.








*cept for that damned Spanish Revolution which was re-energised a couple of weeks ago...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

116. KICK

:kick: