Wyoming Rep. Lummis: Estate tax rise has some planning death

[Psephos]

Source: Casper Star-Tribune

CHEYENNE -- U.S. Rep. Cynthia Lummis says some of her Wyoming constituents are so worried about the reinstatement of federal estate taxes that they plan to discontinue dialysis and other life-extending medical treatments so they can die before Dec. 31.

Lummis, a Republican who holds her state's lone seat in the House, declined to name any of the people who have made the comments.

But she said many ranchers and farmers in the state would rather pass along their businesses -- "their life's work" -- to their children and grandchildren than see the federal government take a large chunk.

"If you have spent your whole life building a ranch, and you wanted to pass your estate on to your children, and you were 88 years old and on dialysis, and the only thing that was keeping you alive was that dialysis, you might make that same decision," Lummis told reporters.

<snip>

Read more: http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/article_d826231c-ae29-576b-b23a-13bb9c16dcdc.html

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Without names, this is campaign literature, not news.

[Skittles]

1. LOLOLOL

this could be THE ONION :rofl:

[yourout]

2. What a load of shit.

[wmbrew0206]

34. Actual this is a pretty big issue for the terminal care community.

2010 is the only year that has no estate tax, so their were a bunch of wealthy people who were terminally ill but had left instructions to be kept alive until 2010, so their families would not have to pay the estate tax.

Apparently now there are a lot of terminally ill wealth people who are stating that if they are on life support that they want the plug pulled before Jan 1, 2011 to avoid the taxes.

The terminal care community has been having a very big ethical debate about this. (One of my fellow grad students is in this field and we talked about this issue a good bit.)

[eppur_se_muova]

3. Memo to Koch heirs: only two months to go. Plan accordingly. nt

[Angry Dragon]

4. The republicans are always saying people need to pull

themselves up by their own bootstraps
They should be behind this, over wise they are doing
a dis-service to their descendants.

[onehandle]

5. Fine. Fuck 'em. nt

[davidinalameda]

6. didn't they do this on Law and Order

or some TV crime show

[EC]

7. If this were true I'd think Chaney would be the first

to do it since he's only alive if he's plugged in and recharged. I don't see him doing it - so I'm sure this is just BS....

[pattmarty]

23. You know that he was the Rep from Wy a long, long time ago?

[EC]

27. Yes, I remember.. n/t

[CLANG]

8. Carry on!!

[aquart]

9. Is she ratting out assisted suicides in her state?

And how does she feel about committing suicide for money?

[petronius]

10. I've been told by some people that they plant to sell their house before 2013

because the health care tax would take a few extra percent above $250,000 - it seems very sad and silly to me to let ideology and a fear of taxes drive major decisions rather than considering your actual best interests.

Pretty skeptical of the 'rather be dead' claim, however...

[Warpy]

12. Well, fools and their money are soon parted

and anyone who is that tax phobic is a fool.

As for unloading that house, they'd better do it now. Prices are going to be much lower in 2-3 years, IF they can find somebody nutty enough to buy.

[Yupster]

38. Rather be dead claim

I'm assuming there is truth in this, but dealing with people who are on life support or terminal illness.

If a person is within a few days of death and it's Dec 29th, and the difference between living two days and three days is that your kids have to pay $ 50 million of estate taxes or none, of course you'd want to die one or two days early to save your life's work.

On the property front, I'm working on a deal right now where the family is wanting to sell its ranch now rather than next year because it will save a scant 5 % on the capital gains tax. I don't think it's going to happen as the estate tax is the one which will eat them up, and this won't change that one way or the other.

The point is that these tax laws shouldn't be this messed up where people make decisions like this.

Changes should be announced well in advance and you shouldn't change from 0 % to 45 % overnight.

[Warpy]

11. Unless they're completely unable to produce urine.

they had better have stopped that dialysis last spring if they want to croak on time.

Lummis is an idiot who doesn't realize there are already exemptions for ranches/farms and businesses. In addition, I can't imagine anyone offing themselves over taxes.

This is the sort of irresponsible scaremongering that should be illegal in campaigns.

[Zambero]

13. Why not disconnect life support just before election day?

Kicking the Teabucket, so to speak. By not voting they'd be performing a wonderful public service for future generations, and I'd truly give a rats ass about what they might do to hasten their demise. These people are brain dead anyway, so why delay?

[Gman]

14. So she asserts that ranchers up there are that stupid

They vote GOP. Maybe they really are that stupid.

[Historic NY]

15. Trying to take it with them...bwah...the rate will return to it previous rate.

[somone]

16. Okay. Godspeed.

Whatever.

[IggleDoer]

17. Time to wake up the Terri Schiavo police

Some geezer wants to die and the family wants to let him die FOR THE MONEY! Why doesn't Randall Terry and his I'll spring into action?

[muntrv]

18. Hey Lummis! The estate has to be at least $3.5 million. How many

"small businesses" are worth over $3.5 million?

[NYC_SKP]

19. To the rich, all of 'em.

Under $3.5 million isn't a business, it's a hobby, a pastime.

To the rich.

[mopinko]

39. dude, where ya been?

haven't seen you in forever.

[OnlinePoker]

30. $3.5 million is the current rate.

1 January it goes back down to $1 million. It's not just the business that gets taxed, it's all assets so if a business was worth $900,000 and you have house and other assets of say $800,000, that would put you over the rate. The limit is $1 million per person so married couples would be able to split their assets to get under the $1 million rate. Counting the cost of assets, I would think many small businesses would be over $1 million in value (if a small business is counted as one under 50 employees, a small construction company could have that much in equipment alone).

[Gormy Cuss]

31. 3.5 M was the 2009 rate. This year it's zero.

In 2009 with the $3.5 threshold the estate tax kicked in for less than .3 % of estates. Next year, if it reverts back to the one million dollar threshold the estimate is that it will affect only 2% of estates. While it's likely that some of those will be small business and family farms, it's unlikely to affect the majority of estates involving small businesses/family farms, if history is any indication. I don't recall if they'll return automatically with the expiration but there were several special provisions for family-run farms and businesses that mitigated the tax or reduced the taxable estate. On provision allowed for the valuation of land as currently used rather than fair market value --which generally would make the land less valuable for tax purposes.


reference of the estimate of 2% affected in 2011:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/1001353_estate_tax.pdf

[Yupster]

40. But each of those estates may effect5 20-30 people

For instance, back when the estate tax was $ 600,000, my aunt died. She had about $ 1.5 million -- never married, good job, owned home in NYC.

The estate tax didn't hit her as she was deceased.

It hit her 25 heirs as they all got smaller shares since the government took a share.

So even though the estate tax hit one estate, it was actually me and my brothers and sisters, our parents, the church, the dog rescue shelters, the pet adoption centers, her college, the Worldwildlife Fund who all actually got hit by the tax.

In short my point is that even though 1 % of the estates are effected by the tax, it's actually a much higher % of the population that has been effectd by it.

For instance, the 1 % stat would say that I have not been effected by the tax, when I know for a fact that I have been.

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Granted, your example shows that more than one heir receives less because of the tax

but the tax is on the single entity and that's why it's reported that way.

Bear in mind that the other 98% of estates are just as likely to have multiple heirs, so as a percent of those inheriting it may still come down to about 2%.

[Historic NY]

20. Busy funeral homes....

[jonthebru]

21. Two things

It sounds like their accountants are not doing their jobs.
Their estates could be set up so their assets are passed on to a trust of some sort from which their family will benefit.
Also; frankly if they want to die they should be permitted to refuse treatment, with dignity. Simple as that.

[freestyle]

48. You are right. A taxable estate results from poor planning.

Or so much distrust in a family that the people refuse to transfer assets while they are alive. This story, like so many emanations from the right, is garbage.

[AlbertCat]

22. That's HYSTERICAL! (in every sense of the word)

Go for it! Knock yourselves out ....so to speak.


Of course the CHILDREN of these lonesome ranchers told her this. I wonder if the parents know about the plan....

And why didn't they kill themselves 10 years ago... or in the interim? I mean they knew back then the cuts were to expire.


Besides, this fits nicely into Obama's DEATH PANELS, doncha think? Work's done for them!


:eyes:

[no_hypocrisy]

24. I had another take on the expiration of the Zero Estate Tax,

I predicted a rash of unexpected deaths up to midnight January 1. But then I also figured that in anticipation of such events, the would-be testators would have something in their wills that if they should die "suddenly", the distribution of assets would held up until their causes of death were determined.

[Caretha]

25. Infantile Rightwingers

"Ima gonna hold my breath & die if I don't get my way! How dare you tax me!

Yeah, sure, I believe that - when pigs fly.

[Edith Ann]

26. Really?

First of all, I'm a Social Worker in a dialysis unit and have worked in many units. There are very few people in these units that even have to worry about estate taxes. They don't have an estate. They worry more about eating, paying utility bills and paying outrageous amounts of money for the medicine that helps them stay alive and have a quality of life. Second of all, no patient would be taken off dialysis without counseling, especially reasonably healthy ones. The Dr. wouldn't participate in this form of suicide and neither would I.

I know a few people whose estate would qualify, maybe 1 or 2. They aren't dialysis pt's. These people give their kids money every year at non taxable rates to see that they get the money and property. There are always loop holes for the wealthy when it comes to taxes. Besides in this age of greed and I've got mine so I don't care about you, show me a dialysis pt who would die so his kids can have his money. It's more likely the kids would do away with the old man to get his money. I know, I watch too many mystery movies.

In other words, this makes a good scare story but it's stupid.

[Zenlitened]

28. What a coincidence. People who've lost everything are planning to check out...

... when they have nothing left to live on.

Funny old world, isn't it?

:grr:

[Blasphemer]

29. This reads like a "The Onion" story.

At any rate, I believe everyone has the right to die at whatever time they choose. If they choose death over taxes, that is their prerogative.

[tinymontgomery]

32. I have no problem not paying taxes

on passed down farms and business's to families. When the family sells, tax the hell out of them.

[katsy]

33. Really?

Sayonara then.

[wmbrew0206]

35. This rub is wrong in the way she puts it, but this is a big issue for some doctors.

The terminal care community is having some major issues with the estate tax in 2010. They say that there were a lot of terminally ill wealthy people who they or their family left instructions for them to be kept alive until 2010. Now with the estate taxes coming back, a lot of wealthy terminally ill patients (and I mean who are on life support or have terminal cancer) are basically making sure the plug is pulled before 2011 to avoid paying the estate tax.

This is a real issue for the terminal care community and they are having major issues dealing with these requests.

[CBGLuthier]

36. Money > Life

Fine. Won't miss people who think like that. I imagine we will have a few murders ala the Menendez boys also. Again fine. Let the rich eat themselves.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

37. Well, maybe some potential heirs are making plans ...

:evilgrin:

[KamaAina]

42. Don't they have to go through the death panels first?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Evasporque]

43. DEATH PLANNERS!!!

RUUNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!

[treestar]

44. So they care that much more about $$ and the government

not getting it than they do for their own lives or being there for their descendants.

Sick.

[ieoeja]

45. So the tax holiday was actually healthcare reform?

I guess that is one way to lower healthcare costs.

[Coventina]

46. Large inheritances are un-American.

There, I said it.

Flame away.

[northzax]

47. well gee

if only family farms and ranches were exempt from the inheritance tax. what a great idea that would...wait, they are?

[Dappleganger]

49. Jump, fuckers!