Venezuela's Chavez blames capitalism for deluges

[Dreamer Tatum]

Source: Reuters

CARACAS, Dec 5 (Reuters) - President Hugo Chavez blamed "criminal" capitalism on Sunday for global climate phenomena including incessant rains that have brought chaos to Venezuela, killing 32 people and leaving 70,000 homeless.

Worst hit is the coastal area of the South American OPEC member nation where millions live in precarious hillside shantytowns and mudslides have been toppling rickety houses.

The charismatic socialist leader has taken personal charge of rescue operations, inviting 25 families to take refuge in his presidential palace and ordering space made for others in ministries, army barracks and even a Caracas shopping mall.

Read more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKN0517626320101205

---

:crazy:

[EFerrari]

1. He's right, of course. That's why Copenhagen was a joke

and why the US will never lead on this.

[Dreamer Tatum]

2. Yeah. China puts pure pixie dust into the atmosphere.

Ditto the former Soviet Union.

:crazy:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Now it's MY fault?

:crazy:

[Billy Burnett]

5. And the "pixie dust" surely isn't capitalist "pixie dust".

:eyes:

[No Elephants]

22. Good point.

[Ruperto31]

17. It is capitalism in the Chinese enterprise zone that pollutes the air.

Right? Right? Right.

[No Elephants]

21. Straw person season is over.

[Cerridwen]

47. "WikiLeaks: China's Politburo a cabal of business empires"

These 4 paragraphs from Joanne98's LBN thread WikiLeaks: China's Politburo a cabal of business empires just fits in here so well.

China's ruling Politburo is a cabal of business empires that puts vested interests over the needs of the poor and curtails media freedoms to avoiding having shady business deals exposed in the press, according to a leaked US government diplomatic cable.

The damning description of China's secretive leadership machinations also described how the descendants of China's Communist revolutionaries – known as "princelings" – derided officials from less august revolutionary backgrounds as mere "shopkeepers".

The assessment of what motivates China's opaque top-level decision-makers was relayed to Washington in July 2009 in one of the 250,000 cables published by the WikiLeaks website.

"China's top leadership had carved up China's economic 'pie,'" the US embassy contact said, "creating an ossified system in which 'vested interests' drove decision-making and impeded reform as leaders maneuvered to ensure that those interests were not threatened." The US embassy contact also asserted there were no "reformers" within the top Communist Party leadership, only competing factions that sought to protect their business empires from attack by in-coming leaderships.

Wait, wait, don't tell me. It's just business.

[thunder rising]

3. Lead .. hell we don't even give good lip service to the problem.

[bemildred]

34. Quite accurate, all that coal and oil, all that "cheap" energy. nt

[defendandprotect]

7. Of course, he's correct ... and good for him for telling the truth --

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. He could put a serious dent in the problem by stopping the sale of oil.

Think he'll do that?


Me neither.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. Crickets - the backing track of hypocrisy nt

[No Elephants]

24. LOL!

[No Elephants]

23. Using oil is the polluter, not selling it. Since no one wanted to listen to Jimmeh,

we're still addicted to oil and will obtain and use it, whether he sells his or not. If he stops selling, we'll have to pay more, that's all.


Meanwhile, Joe Kennedy, Jr. wrote every heating fuel oil vendor, trying to get help for needy New Englanders to heat their homes during our cold winters. Only one responded--and donates every year. Yep, Chavez.

[xor]

33. I'm not sure that's a valid point there.

I mean, they sell the oil with the fact known that it would be burned. Do we give passes to countries (ours included) when they sell weapons places that use child soldiers? We're not the ones actually using the weapons there, it's the warlords...

As for the heating oil for low income New Englanders, either way those people are going to need heating oil. That's regardless if they are in a capitalist, socialist or communist system. I'm not convinced things would be much different if there was another system. While there might some improvement if we somehow managed to find a happy medium where the governments had a strong control but also large amount of accountability, and we were able to have a decent effort toward greener living. I'm certain we'd still have similar problems as the population keeps getting larger and larger, not to mention the rest of the world is now becoming more industrialized.

[defendandprotect]

36. US/CIA is already trying to assassinate him ... We'd probably declare war on his country !!

Think they supply 1/6th of our oil?

[Common Sense Party]

14. Because there were never any mudslides before capitalism.

[EFerrari]

16. The topic was climate disruption not mudslides

and yes, the people living in the south are feeling the consequences much faster than we are.

[No Elephants]

26. Wow. An even bigger straw person than Dreamer Tatum's.

[bluedigger]

9. ...

:rofl:

:popcorn:

[No Elephants]

25. Denier? Dude, if you make only about 600 posts here per year, why waste a post?

[bluedigger]

35. Funny what people will read into a minimalist post.

I think this thread has great potential for levity, nothing more...

With over 25k posts in your short time here, maybe you are the one who needs to worry about wasted posts...:think:

[defendandprotect]

37. "this thread has great potential for levity, nothing more..."

That at least is a clearer response of why you're here --

Meanwhile, capialism is exploitation of nature and humanity --

and it's time to rid ourselves of it.

[bluedigger]

41. So you want to go back to what, barter or potlatch?

Consumerism as a lifestyle is a serious problem.

Corporatism taking over our political systems is a serious problem.

Capitalism is just an economic system, which most societies, including Venezuela, participate in.

[defendandprotect]

46. Let's move to a system which furthers economic democracy ...

an that certainly isn't capitalism --

Democratic socialism would be one idea --

however, I think we all recognize that the invention of the dollar bill made

power transportable - that's why we originally had the Brettonwoods Accords.

Those who collect dollar bills are also concentrating power in their hands --

too often for ill use.

Capitalism replaced Feudalism when the Vatican found it to no longer be sufficient

to run its Papal States.

Capitalism is intended to move the wealth and natural resources of nations from the

many to the few -- and it does that quite quite successfully wherever it is practiced.

[webDude]

11. HAARP?

[No Elephants]

27. Well, I prefer VIOOLIN, but okay.

[Catherina]

12. Well go ahead. Blame God instead.

:crazy:

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. I blame fossil fuels. Say, what's Venezuela's chief export, again? Oh yeah. nt

[EFerrari]

15. What's hilarious about your criticism of Venezuela

is that the ALBA countries are doing more to combat climate change in this hemisphere than we will ever do and as a reward, the State Department targets those government with millions of dollars of destabilization money. Bolivia was the one that held the real climate summit after that farce in Copenhagen was over.

Do you seriously believe Chavez doesn't know what Venezuela's main export is? Do you seriously believe he's never talked about that issue in public -- with that mouth?

You really nailed him this time.

[No Elephants]

28. Yeah, exporting pollutes wicked lots.

[cali]

19. how about it's not as simple as "capitalism"

for one thing, population is a big factor.

[No Elephants]

29. Did Chavez say pollution was the sole and exclusive cause of climate change?

If so, he was obviously wrong.

Thing is, a socialist manufacturer pollutes as much as a capitalist manufacturer. And a huge population pollutes less if it consumes less, be it a socialist population or a capitalist population. However, capitalists do tend to consume more overall.

But, the man was making a political point, not delivering a research paper on climate change.

He did make his point, and it is a valid one.

[David__77]

18. Capitalism or socialism can ruin the environment, but...

...it is capitalism that is actually doing so now.

[defendandprotect]

38. Think you mean TOTALITARIAN socialism ... such as USSR practiced?

where they pounded down resources much as Capitalism does here?

There's an old Russian joke based on that -- goes like this ....

Q: What's the difference between capitalism and communism -- ?

A: Under Capitalism, man exploits man --

Under Communism, it's just the reverse --



Most of the world respects socialism -- which is something entirely different

from totalitarian communism.

[David__77]

42. I disagree with that assessment.

First of all, I think the Arendt-type concept of "totalitarianism" is errant and wrongly used to stigmatize any attempt to alter the status quo. What I'd characterize as Promethean efforts are required to right society. I think it's not right to summarily dismiss all of the experience of the nominally socialist states. Many errors were made and crimes committed, to be sure. But this is true of the Western countries as well, and I think it's wrong to condemn capitalism 100% as well.

[defendandprotect]

44. So USSR wasn't a dictatorship?

And you're defending capitalism?

Historically, capitalism has "failed" which is a polite way of saying it is a system

manipulated by elites to inflict fraud and crimes on the public -- and to corrupt

government.

Capitalism is the invention of the Vatican -- it replaced Feudalism when that system

became insufficient to run its Papal States.

Capitalism condemns itself -- it's a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to

move the wealth and natural resources of nations from the many to the few. And it does

that quite successfully wherever it is practiced.

Capitalism is based on suicidal exploitation of nature and humanity --

animal life, natural resources -- and even human beings according to various myths of

"inferiority" according to gender, race, sexual orientation.

And Global Warming is the result of that exploitation --





Patriarchy -- and its underpinning =

Organized Patriarchal Religion -- and its economic system =

Capitalism =

The Unholy Trinity

[David__77]

52. I'll answer.

All states are by definitions dictatorships, though not of equal morality.

"And you're defending capitalism?"
Of course. Capitalism has a progressive world-historical role. It will leave just as it came, once it is exhausted. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The main thing is to develop the economy through either capitalism or socialism.

"Capitalism condemns itself -- it's a ridiculous "King-of-the-Hill" system intended to move the wealth and natural resources of nations from the many to the few. And it does that quite successfully wherever it is practiced."
That's the sort of thinking that has infected what was once known as the New Left, and doomed it. Imperialism is a real thing, but is not identical of capitalism. Resources are precisely to be "exploited" in order to transform the world in the interests of human beings. If capitalism cannot do it, then socialism will surely emerge.

[defendandprotect]

53. Capitalism is a tool of imperialism ... of course ...

Just as Organized patriarchal religion is a tool of imperialism --


"People's" governments are not dictatorships --

though agree we have quite a schizophrenic Constitution compliments

of the white males who pro\duced it -- to restrain those they feared and sought to control.


Capitalism does not enjoy a positive role in history -- it is identified as fascism --

Christian corporate fascism -- and it is pretty much America which is the last to know.


Again, capitalism condemns itself -- given the huge distortions of wealth by crime among

1% of the population -- a redistribution of wealth based on deception and immoral influence.

Obama -- of the Bush/obama bailouts -- identifies himself as a "New Dem" -- if that's what

you mean, he is being soundlly rejected -- and so is capitalism.

And, agree, as I said above ... capitalism and imperialism are not synonymous --

however, capitalislim is a tool of imperialism.

Note our embargo on Castro for one --

And many other examples of exerting our will on other nations thru the carrot and the stick

of capitalism.

Capitalism has produced tremendous pollution of the earth -- and Global Warming which is

an immense threat to the survival of the planet and humanity.

[robcon]

20. Chavez is an ass.

n/t

[COLGATE4]

30. Stop the presses!!! Venezuela's Chavez blaims capitalism for ______________.

[defendandprotect]

39. Anyone who understands capitalism's exploitation of nature ....

and humans -- understands that Capitalism is responsible --

And we've not only known about Global Warming since the 1950's --

Scientists were aware of the damage being done to nature by the late 1880's ...

The Industrial Revolution.

[Freddie Stubbs]

31. He should stop selling oil in order to reduce emissions

[Ginto]

32. Milli Vanilli spoke about the causes years ago. nt

[FLPanhandle]

40. Because the old USSR and eastern block non-capitalist societies were completely green.

Chavez is nothing if not predictable.

[defendandprotect]

45. Whether capitalism or totalitarian communism ... both pounded down natural resources ....

There's an old Russian joke based on that -- goes like this ....

Q: What's the difference between capitalism and communism -- ?

A: Under Capitalism, man exploits man --

Under Communism, it's just the reverse --



Most of the world respects socialism -- which is something entirely different

from totalitarian communism.

[ProudDad]

43. He's right...

or are you another climate change denier? :eyes:

[sabrina 1]

48. This is why they hate him. Because he tells the truth.

[unkachuck]

49. Hugo has a point....

....whenever people create a profit-driven, greed-based society, the earth, its' environment and climate, usually suffers....

....capitalist exploitation for profit replaces the former necessary, practical, sustainable, economic activities....look at what the capitalists have done to the earth over the last several hundred years....

[Bacchus39]

50. it is the rainy season n/t

s

[MellowDem]

51. Capitalism, Socialism, Communism...

doesn't matter the system, humans consume resources. Whatever system you have, if there isn't regulation, then there will be exploitation of the environment.

Chavez just wants to put the blame elsewhere. Because nothing is Chavez's fault. NOTHING! :rofl: