Uproar Over ‘Mass Firings’ At Minn. Chipotle Restaurants

[AlphaCentauri]

Source: CBS

A Minnesota immigration rights group is protesting what it calls “mass firings” of Chipotle workers. According to the group, around 50 of the restaurant’s Latino workers have been fired in the last week.

The Minnesota Immigration Rights Action Committeee (MIRAC), a local group that fights for the legalization of undocumented workers, says employees at local Chipotle stores came forward, saying they were fired over questions about their immigration status.

“We started to piece together there was something larger going on than a few people fired at one store,” said MIRAC member Brad Sigal. “It appears to be a statewide attack on immigrant worker who are longtime employees most of them been working there for years.”

Brad Sigal says his group confirmed that more than a dozen workers at the Chipotle store on Grand Avenue in St. Paul were let go, along with nearly dozen more at a Richfield Chipotle. He also heard from fired employees at locations in downtown Minneapolis (Skyway and Seven Corners), Golden Valley, Coon Rapids, Stillwater and Hudson, Wis.



Read more: http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2010/12/09/uproar-over-mass-firings-at-minn-chipotle-restaurants/

---

....and

Mass Firings of Illegal Aliens a Welcome First Step, Especially at Christmas
http://www.borderfirereport.net/john-w.-lillpop/mass-firings-of-illegal-aliens-a-welcome-first-step-especially-at-christmas.php

Could not believe right wing groups were supporters of Obama's immigration policies

[davidinalameda]

1. and how many other employees would lose their jobs if the feds came in

and closed these restaurants down

it's against the law to knowing hire or employee someone who is in this country illegally

[Luciferous]

Yep, People on DU are always saying that they need to go after the

employers that hire illegal immigrants in order to solve the problem, so why condemn a company that is trying to follow the law?

[AlphaCentauri]

4. Because the law is punishing just the little guy

who can't defend him self.

[davidinalameda]

15. the little guy who is in this country illegally?

that little guy?

[AlphaCentauri]

52. The poor of the poor?

[totodeinhere]

40. No, the law actually helps the little guy who is a legal resident. n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

53. Really?

http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2010/07/26/u-s-citizens-deported/

[redirish28]

3. The problem with that argument is that somehow LEGAL immigrants are the ones who end up getting

the majority of the firings. Let's say 20 people are fired for being "illegal immigrants". Problem is maybe 2 are ACTUAL illegal immigrants and the other 18 are legal and fire under the suspicion.

[naaman fletcher]

7. employers are screwed either way...

If you don't hire illegals, you have to compete against people who do... so the law starts clamping down, then suddenly you are supposed to figure out whose papers are real and whose aren't? So they err on the side of firing and now will get sued.

The point is, both parties, R and D, have been kicking the can down the road when what is needed is comprehensive immigration reform which consists of a certain amount of amnesty, a certain amount of guest workers, and a certain amount of real enforcement at the border. Without that everyone gets hurt.

[Creative]

49. Do you have a link for those stats...?

[greiner3]

8. " it's against the law to knowing hire or employee someone who is in this country illegally"

It's against the law to speed; it's against the law to back out of your driveway; it's against the law to 'rolling stop.' However, I defy anyone to name a person who has not broken any law. I include this to be in the last day or two. Come on, have some humanity.

Bah Humbug is a slogan of many on this board. Too bad.

[davidinalameda]

14. you're comparing hiring an illegal to traffic violations?

really?

talk about apples and watermelons

[LanternWaste]

43. Laws and laws are apples and apples.

Breaking a law is breaking a law, yes?

Do you believe there are some laws that may winked and nodded at, while others must be adhered to regardless?

Laws and laws are apples and apples.

[Llewlladdwr]

63. No.

Are you really arguing that murder is morally equivalent to a traffic violation?

[Romulox]

27. "Humanity" = cheap burritos for you (and labor standards be damned!)?

Hoookay....

[AlphaCentauri]

54. I love to shop at 99 cents stores, ha, no illegal labor involved n/t

[Creative]

50. And if you get caught speeding or whatever, you will be cited.

Are you suggesting that laws should not be enforced?

[AlphaCentauri]

55. but you are not going to be label as criminal n/t

[Creative]

59. You will be labeled as a criminal if you continue to break those laws.

First, they will suspend your license, then, they will put you in a cage.

Simply put, people who continue to reside in this country without proper documentation are criminals.

[Luciferous]

2. If they were here illegally then the company did the right thing by following the law.

If not, then they have a potential lawsuit on their hands.

[bluestateguy]

5. Look

It is against the law to hire people who are in the country illegally.

[AlphaCentauri]

6. is it against the law to murder people in other countries?

are the same law abiding crowds looking to apply the law in all instances or just to punish the poor and weak?

[NutmegYankee]

20. I don't understand your argument.

Are you implying that because the USA may have violated some international laws that all laws are null and void?

If that's the case, please post your address and any good stuff, (like flat screen TVs) you have and whether it takes 1 or 2 men to carry them away.

[AlphaCentauri]

56. are you implying that a criminal should enforce the law, I don't get it. n/t

[Omaha Steve]

9. Snip: employees most of them been working there for years

Now the company has questions???

From the second link: “In a statement, Chipotle said, “We are fully cooperating with Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials in Minnesota in connection with a document request they have made.”

Chipotle didn't care about the law until they were being investigated.

[social_critic]

10. They are not President Obama's immigration policies

President Obama is constrained by existing law. I also got the feeling he is unable to act in certain areas because he is a consensus builder. After the way Bush did things, it's nice to have a consensus builder in the White House. Now we have to be patient and wait as he trains himself in the art of negotiation (which seems to be his weakness).

Let's face it, his foreign policy leadership is also a bit weak - we should have brought the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan last year. But I'd rather be pragmatic and have President Obama in charge, than end up with a Republican in the White House.

[timo]

34. deportations up under obama

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fstories%2F2010%2F07%2F26%2Fpolitics%2Fwashingtonpost%2Fmain6715205.shtml&ei=FFsGTZmrKcWqlAe_v8DhCQ&usg=AFQjCNGQrLUqe4VKp_BtkCbPZbj5LPlgTQ

[pitchforksandtorches]

11. Saves the company from paying Christmas/year end bonuses, nt

[Llewlladdwr]

64. You really think a restaurant is paying bonuses to the kitchen staff? NT

[kath]

12. Employers should be *heavily* fined for hiring illegal immigrants,

then the flood of illegal immigrants across the border would be slowed significantly.
Don't just fire the workers - fine the living shit out of the employers.

[24601]

18. You need to differentiate between knowing and unknowing

actions.

What's the point of driving another small business out of business if they really did try to follow the law but were deceived by false identities? To me. this sounds like another drive to say "it's just too hard to do it the right way" and then grant blanket amnesty to those who jumped ahead of everyone who waited in line and followed the law.

[SoapBox]

13. When we all those unemployed WHITE Americans line up for those minimum wage jobs....

...let me know.

I can hardly wait to see the thousands lining up to apply for the 50 jobs.

NOT!

[Rage for Order]

16. They'll probably line up Monday morning

What makes you think American citizens of all colors won't work in restaurants?

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

17. I sort of think that from working in one

I was a dishwasher at a restaurant in Minnesota. I actually think I was hired specifically because I was white. The owner was so happy, because he hasn't had an english speaking dishwasher in 10 years. The other dishwasher was white too. The place had just opened. Before the place was open a month, we were both gone, because we had found better jobs. Replaced by Mexicans, whom I suspect were illegal.

I'm not above working food service. I've worked a couple of food service jobs, and have worked with a lot of white people who have worked food service their whole lives. It's the people who have never worked food service that have a lot of trouble, and wind up quitting after a day or two. Most adults can't transition into that after years of work with dignity. It's not at easy as it looks like from sitting in a booth.

That being said, I don't care about illegal immigration at all. I lived in a neighborhood in Minneapolis that went from being a pretty crappy neighborhood to a really wonderful neighborhood, largely because of Mexican immigration, and based on the number of immigration raids in the neighborhood, and how things would always *quiet down* for a couple of weeks after a raid, I'm pretty sure there were plenty, plenty of illegals. Maybe the nicest neighborhood I ever lived in, not based on wealth, but on friendly people who cared about their neighborhood. It's a much better gentrification than high rise condos and parking garages. In lots of cities, all over America, places that were pretty much abandoned by white people are being turned into wonderful placed. That's change I can believe in...

Maybe there are more problems down south? I don't really know what to believe on that front. I think a lot of people don't acknowledge what a positive effect Mexican immigration has had on quite a few northern cities though.

[MellowDem]

22. Illegal labor is bad for American labor...

The people that benefit the most from it are the company owners and the rich. Americans in general suffer from it. Unless you think that sending all of our jobs to China is a good idea too, just so we can have cheaper products.

I've seen cities that were fairly nice become Hispanic ghettos as well, so I'm having a hard time believing that illegal immigration is such a great thing that only revitalizes areas. Illegal immigrants are treated as a second class citizens and are easily exploited. I have a problem with that. But a lot of people who only think about how it's nice they get cheap stuff because of it don't really care about that.

Let's say you were a drywaller whose company went out of business because you could no longer compete with illegal labor without dropping wages significantly. I'm guessing you'd be singing a different tune.

There's a reason neoliberals and the wealthy just love themselves some illegal immigration. It's all part of the continued destruction of the middle class and having the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Those with money would rather have cheaper products than having to pay more for things so that more Americans could have jobs that actually pay a good living wage.

The reason some people think that food service or any other job lacks dignity is because they are paid so poorly. If they were paid a living wage, they would have dignity. Illegal immigration is just another way for corporations not to have to pay a living wage to employees. The best excuse they have is that no other Americans want to do the job, which is the biggest bullshit ever, considering it is that no American want to do a low-wage job with horrible labor safety or consideration for workers rather than the actual job itself. Americans have higher expectations after years of having fought for better pay and good labor practices. But Republicans are trying to kill those high expectations and are largely succeeding.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

25. i realize most of these things, but

1) But I still argue that the wave of Mexican immigration has had mostly, maybe entirely, positive effects for American cities that were abandoned by European Americans 50 years ago. What's a nice city that has faced problems? Please give specific neighborhoods. This is a topic I'm interested outside of politics, so I'm genuinely interested in your information. My family lived in a German neighborhood when they first came to America, and they thought it was a really nice place, but after doing historical research a couple years ago I found out other people thought it was a "ghetto". So a lot of times the problem is more seeing people who are different than you rather than any actual crime problems. I buy that some southern cities have drug related problems. I also buy that some first ring suburbs have decreased in value based on immigration trends. But suburban sprawl is going to continue to decline in value, because...well, people are going to continue to realize how much suburbs sucks and it's eventually all going to become pretty run down and cheap. That's just a historical trend that has really nothing to do with immigration.

2) Food service jobs have never had dignity. Stuff like dishwashers. Fast food workers. Busboys. I'd love to see more dignity in these jobs. I have friends who have tried to unionize their workplaces, and that's great. But when have these jobs ever paid any kind of good wage? We're not trying to regain dignity...we're trying to get dignity we never had. We've been ignored by traditional labor unions, and mostly still continue to be ignored. I think it's basically a complete divide of how people who work food service view their job versus how people who have never (or only briefly) worked food service. I feel way more solidarity with any illegal immigrant I ever worked with as opposed to some well paid overweight trade unionist who just treated me or someone I work with like an animal.

Anyway, solidarity with fellow workers being one of the most important things to me, and having worked with a good number of likely illegal immigrants, I have to say, that I have solidarity with them. I realize this is going to be the minority view here, if for no other reason, most people on here probably have never worked or lived among them. And it's easier to stay stuff that people are saying here about other people if you can't humanize them, and you base your opinions more on what the media says than on what you can see. But that's fine, I don't expect anything better than that. I still stick with my first two points which are more factually based.

[MellowDem]

42. Illegal immigration is good for the economy overall...

but those who benefit almost entirely from it are the rich, while labor suffers.

1. Unless you are willing to give specific neighborhoods and prove that illegal immigration only has positive effect for American cities, I do not really feel compelled to try to answer such a question that really cannot be answered with any sort of proof online beyond personal experience. I will only say any theory that illegal immigration only has positive effects on cities is rather naive in the extreme. Of cousre personal perception has a lot to do with things, but the answer is really quite simple. Some illegal immigrant communities have high poverty rates and are very concentrated. Wherever you have high poverty rates that are concentrated, there is higher crime. Because of the nature of illegal immigration, these communities can be harder to reach and can be more isolated as well, for fear of being found out. Illegal immigration can help out a community economically, in the same way as a WalMart coming to town can. There are some real economic benefits, but at quite a cost, and most of those benefits go to the rich.

2. Any job can have dignity, and in some places do. It used to be that no job had "dignity"; that was only reserved for nobility. It has nothing to do with regaining dignity as much as making sure that everyone has a dignified job. Obviously, any trade union that looks down on other jobs is not helping. Unfortunately, just like corporations, unions will look out for their interests first in their fields, even if it hurts laborers in other fields. Feeling solidarity with other workers who cannot and will not unionize is nothing more than mutual suffering from exploitation, but it has no empowerment behind it. You must also realize that illegal immigrants are often used in the same way "scabs" are, so some unions will very much look down on jobs dominated by illegal labor. It is sad that there are such conflicts that make it easier to divide the working class, but illegal immigrants may not realize what harm they are doing. Many are very naive, only thinking they are doing jobs that Americans consider themselves too snooty to do, when really they are lowering the wages of those jobs and creating an ever widening wealth disparity. And many of the Americans they compete for jobs with just see them as competition, rather than potential allies, with the companies being the real enemy.

I have worked as practically the only white person among illegal immigrants in two jobs; one as a dishwasher, the other at a fast food restaurant. It is good to view illegal immigrants as humans, and they are no different obviously, and I felt no ill will to them as individuals. But that does not change the reality of what illegal immigration is all about. It is a very conservative idea and policy that only serves to worsen labor conditions, divide workers, and enrich corporations.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

48. re

1) My examples of neighborhoods abandoned by white people for subdivisions in the 1950's and 60's, turning bad, and seeing dramatic improvement in conjunction with inflow of Mexican Americas, based on crime statistics and living there/talking to people who lived there before: Powderhorn and Phillips, particularly the commercial drag of Lake Street, in Minneapolis. Bella Vista and surrounding areas to the south in South Philadelphia. The entire city of Reading, Pennsylvania. I'm not saying it's the only reason, complex things are complex, but these are places I've spent years in...I'm guessing there are plenty of other examples, because I've only lived in 3 places and I've seen similar things in all of them. Influx of Mexican Immigrants, many of whom who could be illegal, and at the same time improvement of quality of life in those places. But this is turning into a silly fight, although I appreciate that it's a polite argument, but you're comparing people to WalMarts? I'd say almost all immigrant neighborhoods have high poverty and high crime, because those are the neighborhoods that immigrants can afford to move to. It's been that way forever in America. Immigrants have always had crappy jobs too. My German relatives had crappy jobs and lived in crappy neighborhoods, and they were what we think of as *good immigrants* now. My argument is there are plenty of examples of immigrants, especially Mexicans, whether illegal or legal, who tend to have large families and jobs, are taking some places that used to suck and doing their part to make them good places to live. It's not really an argument about economics at all, it's an argument about living in places that are nice places to live. I'm really interested in the urban experience, and have a vested interest in the life of real cities and not Disney Land suburbs, and I don't there's really anything that could convince me that, *in general big picture terms*, this is good for American cities. The more important question I think are what sort of economic statistics and crime statistics can you give me showing that illegal immigrants, particularly from Mexico, drive up crime rates? Meaning I'm looking for numbers saying the crime rates went up significantly over a period of time, not that it was a crappy neighborhood that appealed to a couple of crappy Mexican guys it's still a crappy neighborhood. And also accept that I already gave you the fact that I buy they might have more drug problems around the border than they used to - I'm talking about cities where people have actually "settled".

2) I don't think we feel that much differently, I just have a little more confidence in all workers' ability to organize given the right situation. I have stood on a picket line with Mexican workers after a "mass firing" based on suspicious of illegal immigration. I have seen neighborhood Mexican grocery stores, bakeries, and coffee shops turn into bases for organizing protests against immigration raids. I've stood on street corners, and I've been at protests with tens of thousands of people. Don't underestimate the ability of people to organize. You've especially got to look at the big picture - their children are all legal immigrants who will have expectations and understandings of America and class struggle that may differ significantly, especially if organized labor wakes up to the fact that despite whatever they feel, the fastest growing segment of the working class will be people whose parents may or may not be legal.

But I should admit, I've never been a part of a trade union. I've never even had a job that any trade union would probably even give a crap about. I have hung around the fringes of the labor movement though - and therefore I've been in contact with people who are organizing and struggling, that most unions and union members will never hear about. We're not on the brink of revolution or anything. The fact of the matter is that the labor movement is weak here. But to discount a whole segment of society as not being able to organize is unfair, especially when so few people anywhere in America are organizing new unions. Especially when the argument trotted out are the same arguments that have been trotted out for more than 150 years.

Capitalists being able to drive down wages rests on unemployment - as long as unemployment exists in significant form, there will be desperate people to fill jobs at low wages. It's an argument based in Marxism grant you, and I'm not really a Marxist, but I think his theory of the reserve army of labor deserved a lot of credit. It just so happens that the reserve army in America often is made up of people different than mainstream America, which inhibits the ability of workers to organize as a class. They see differences instead of similarity. I think you agree with me on this. I think where you disagree with me is the willingness of illegal immigrants to organize. I think we've seen the ability of immigrants to organize politically in the May Day marches a couple of years ago. The fact that they are not organizing in the workplace, I believe and will continue to believe, has a lot more to do with the fact that there is virtually no labor movement right now, and that's even more true in the jobs most needing organizing. Are white minimum wage workers organizing in any significant way?

[MellowDem]

51. Re

1. I was not comparing people to Walmarts, more like the effect of illegal immigrants moving to an area to Walmart. One is cheap labor, the other is cheap products. Both hurt labor, one by exporting it and the other by importing it; and in both cases exploiting it, for the benefit of cheaper products and more profit. In any area where the population is decreasing, immigrants, illegal or otherwise, will be better than a ghost town. Legal immigrants nowadays aren't like in the past, where they move enmass to Xtown and live in poverty at first while assimilating. Legal immigration is far more selective, and those who immigrate here legally are probably better educated than your average American. Illegal immigration is very different. Legal immigrants are much harder to exploit. Illegal immigrants are meant to be exploited. I don't think that illegal immigration to an area is necessarily going to make the area worst. On the contrary, I think it will most likely be an economic boon at first. But it most definitely could raise crime rates. But I can't really show you statistics, as I don't have access to anything that could prove that the reduction or increase in the crime rate was due specifically to illegal immigrants moving in to the area. Crime rates have been decreasing and in many places are at an all time low, despite the worst recession since the Great Depression. There are too many factors out there that effect crime rates, many of which may be overlooked or are hard to say what their effects would be, for me to make much of an educated guess with the statistics that are available to the public. So I just have to go from common sense. A population increase, in and of itself, usually has positive effects on the economy, even if it increases poverty and crime through a concentration of the less privilegeed. Over time, as an illegal immigrant concentration becomes "settled", and more and more become American citizens through birth and whatnot, then it will be like any other immigrant population.

2. I think illegal immigrants are less likely to organize because of their illegal status. I agree that unions have already been decimated and the will to unionize is pretty low anymore. Most non-unionized workers are convinced that unions are horrible things, at least in my experience.

[Chan790]

36. I don't know they could do the jobs.

Have you ever watched the burrito-makers at Chipotle work? They're damned fast at assembly-line burrito-making because most of them have been doing it since they were 9 or 10 and learned how to feed themselves. Assembly-line made-to-order food-prep is not as easy as it looks...I know because I was a learning coach with Starbucks for 2 years...most people could not do that job or this one. (They just like to think they could.)

[MellowDem]

21. Probably when the wages rise...

which won't happen as long as they're competing against illegal labor. And don't leave out the black, Asian, and Hispanic Americans.

[Romulox]

28. Yeah. Never seen a white guy in a kitchen. Or a dish room. Or as a short order cook.

What the fuck are you talking about? :shrug:

[Doremus]

38. What planet are you from? There was a line snaking around the building when a new McDonalds

opened.

Last I heard MickyD's still pays minimum wage.

[totodeinhere]

39. In the area where I live it is impossible to find even a minimum wage job.

But if and when one of those jobs does become available, who should get the job, and American or an alien?

[antigone382]

46. Please stop referring to human beings as aliens.

Whatever your opinions regarding immigration, it is not necessary to use that offensive term. And I think it might be against the rules as well.

[totodeinhere]

47. That term is not offensive. The term is used by the government itself.

The "Application for Immigrant Visa and Alien Registration" form is used by the federal government. You will note the conspicuous use of the term "alien." The dictionary defines the word as follows. "A resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen.)" What in the world is offensive about that? Or have you set yourself up as the head of the word police?

[oldhippie]

57. Geeeeezzzzz, get a fuckin' dictionary.

They're aliens by definition. There's nothing offensive about the term.

[AlphaCentauri]

58. There are a lot aliens that are legal n/t

[tblue37]

41. Whenever a fast food restaurant or grocery store opens up, people line up

around the block to get one of those crappy jobs. The idea that Americans--regardless of race or ethnicity--won't take low-level jobs is a RW talking point and doesn't really belong here.

[lynne]

19. I was lucky to find a job about 6 mos. ago and I filled out quite a few forms -

- about my immigration status both when I made application for the job and when I was hired for the position. I would NOT have gotten the job had I not been able to prove my immigration status.

Someone please explain to me why someone who cannot prove their immigration status should keep a job when all of us must prove our immigration status to get one in the first place?

[boppers]

23. All of us don't have to prove it.

All I needed for my current gig was a tax ID number (easily stolen or fabricated).

[Romulox]

29. Then you're not an employee. Employees must fill out I-9s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)

[boppers]

24. I've eaten at Chipotle. They need more immigrants, not less.

Some of the crappiest Mexican food I've ever had, it was like Mexican Food for a New England palate... no spice, no heat, no flavor.

For those of you who grew up in places other than the southwest:
It's like grits made in the style of an Indian curry.
It's like New England Clam Chowder made with extra jalapenos.
It's like Northwest Salmon cooked by boiling it for 5 hours.

As food goes, I find it morally wrong.

All that being said, I long for the day when Native Americans start checking white (and other) people for their documents to prove it's okay for them to legally be here.

[Codeine]

35. It's not Mexican food.

It's American food -- every international cuisine changes to accommodate the local palate; this happens all over the world. I like Chipotle precisely because it has lots of flavor without all the heat that authentic Mexican food often has while also being lard-free with lots of veggie options.

[Chan790]

37. Yup.

That's why I eat there...not the heat, the veggie options. Have they rolled-out "garden-blend" (Vegan) in your area yet? It's just marinated seitan, tofu and Gardein but it was nice to have an option other than "Vegetarian" on the menu.

DC/MD/VA was a test-market and it was wildly-popular here.

[Javaman]

26. Slavery, in one for or another, in this country has never ended.

Whether we feel that illegals are a drain on society or a benefit, the blatant fact is: the illegal workers of this nation keeps the corporate state afloat.

Since before the civil war the rich and well connected have always relied upon cheap labor to keep their costs low. And they do this at the expense of the worker.

Since the modern retooling of our work force away from unions and using American labor, the corporate profit and influence of this nation has grown exponentially.

Why did the corporations set up companies stores? Why did they union bust? Why did they continue with the anti-union propaganda up until this very moment? Because, it's not that corporations hate the worker per say, they just hate paying them. We are overhead.

So what was the next best thing? Remove the American worker from the equation. Send the jobs overseas to areas of the world that employ slave labor forces.

And those you can't send over seas? Hire illegals and pay them slave labor wages.

Once you step back and see clearly what is being done in the cause of corporate profit, the picture that is painted for us all is: we are all just disposable cogs.

This is one of the main reasons why corporations are against the Dream act.

Until there are actual congress people who are actually elected and not bought off by corporations, nothing will change.

The gambit of reaganomics wasn't the trickle down theory, that was the cover. It was never meant to work. It was always about giving more to the wealthy at the expense of the poor. So we have less of a voice and can be controlled via meager wages.

Like any monetary gamble the rich and corporations make, they have to find that break even point. The point by which the people will stop being sheep and turn into wolves.

But the irony is: the rich never learn. While getting so caught up in their corpulence, they begin to believe their own bullshit. Thus overstepping their bounds.

Eventually, the people will rise up. It's just a matter of when.

But when that "when" time happens, we will all be reduced to slave labor wages.

The whittling away of social nets, the whittling away of our rights, the whittling away of our voices, will eventually be the undoing of those in power.

History has shown this time and time again.

And while the corps today may think they are special and have "thought outside the box" to prevent this, I can say with amusement, that they aren't that clever.

[Romulox]

30. Cliff's note version of your post: the South won the Civil War. nt

[Javaman]

31. er, no. the corporations did. nt

[Romulox]

32. The Civil War was fought over a sort of neo-feudal economic model. That model prevailed, ultimately

[Javaman]

33. It prevailed due to the laissez-faire attitude our nation took against corporations.

Corporations gave rise to the practice of suppressing the worker. It wasn't until the worker protested for better wages and working conditions that the corporations relented.

However, as the power of the people shifted back to corporate power, due to political donations, the power of the people took a back seat to the interests of the corporation.

The "golden age" 1890's was a direct result of the south losing the war. Corporate interests in the form of railroad barrons, steal and coal barrons, shipping magents, etc, filled the vacuum once enjoyed by the gentry in the south, by expanding their operations in the south.

The trust busting of Roosevelt came about due to the unlimited influence many of these corporations and wealthy families had upon politics, it was only this that helped the rise of the unions. Prior to the trust busting, unions were looked upon and purposely promoted, as anti-American. They employeed pretty much the same type of attacks the right wing uses today.

[LanternWaste]

44. Your gymnastics are really quite bemusing at times.

Your gymnastics are really quite bemusing at times.

[sofa king]

45. Minnesotans eat spicy food?

How's the lutefisk?

[slackmaster]

60. Yeah, that was kind of how I reacted as well

Not that anything served at Chipotle would qualify as spicy from a Southern California perspective.

[JustAnotherGen]

61. I’ll give the Chipotle owners

The benefit of the doubt. I look at this as someone whose love is an Italian Immigrant with green card status and who owns two businesses.

1. I don’t know if those Chipotle ‘franchise’ owners (believe they are franchisers) are full citizens or green card status but – they should follow the laws.

2. As the fiancé of the Italian Immigrant? He could lose HIS status if he has folks who are not authorized to be working in the U.S. working for him.

A lot of employers in the trades give bullshit excuses that if “I don’t hire that worker the next guy will and will undercut me.”

In the meantime the man or woman who went to school to learn HVAC or Welding or Art School to design the interior metal/gates/fences that is either a citizen or here legally . . . they can’t get a job. Or in order to get the job – they don’t get a living wage.

It’s very easy for a small business owner to ‘sell services’ with high paid employees – advertise the status of your employees and go directly after your competitors with . . . you get what you pay for. Licensed, verified, bonded, people going into your home to keep you warm this winter.

Your railing is being created and installed by artists/artisans who have xyz numbers of years experience, etc. etc.

We all whine about low wage jobs in the US and our ‘service economy’ but if we won’t support those who do follow the rules – then forget about any jobs in America ever paying more than a couple hundred bucks a week sooner rather than later. Hell, let’s just shut down the public schools and universities since there’s no point in spending money on educating people that only need to be trained how to be homeless.

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62. we are talking about millions of illegal workers

they've got to be working somewhere!!!! It's not just the odd homeowner hiring a landscaper. The only way to have millions of illegal workers hired is for major corporations and large local businesses to use them directly as employees or indirectly as subcontractors.

As soon as you start to poke at this issue, you run into human rights issues. Labor rights for displaced native born Americans who weren't hired because an immigrant is cheaper.

Human rights issues for the illegal workers. OK so you fire them. Now what. Millions of people without a means to feed themselves and possibly without a means to return to their home country. Forced resettlement? Ummmm... at what point does this become ethnic cleansing. Look at former Yugoslavia. They were forcible moving people of one ethnicity out of one area into another (they were also killing them but that's another story) because those people didn't want to move. Even if they wanted to go home voluntarily, it would be a huge undertaking. I don't have the link but I remember reading about how many train cars it would take to ship people over the Mexican border. It was a rather large number.

The only way out I see is a path to citizenship and really enforcing the labor laws so that people are paid properly. Folks are here already and those that want to leave have already left when the economy turned sour.