Archbishop of Canterbury calls on rich to 'shoulder the load' with the poor

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

Rowan Williams says hardship must be 'fairly shared' in rebuke of public sector cuts, but supports idea of 'big society'

Haroon Siddique Saturday 25 December 2010 12.04 GMT

The archbishop of Canterbury today said that the burden of the economic downturn should be "fairly shared", amid fears that the less well-off in society were being hit the hardest. In his Christmas Day sermon, Dr Rowan Williams spoke of "a lasting sense the most prosperous have yet to shoulder their load". His comments might be seen to support the stance of trade unions and students who have claimed that, as the coalition government seeks to slash the national deficit, the less well-off are being penalised as a result of a recession caused by the folly of City bankers.

Williams said: "Confidence isn't in huge supply at the moment, given the massive crises of trust that have shaken us all in the last couple of years and the lasting sense that the most prosperous have yet to shoulder their load."

He called for a more equitable distribution of the burden being imposed on society if people are not to feel hard done by. "Faced with the hardship that quite clearly lies ahead for so many in the wake of financial crisis and public spending cuts, how far are we able to sustain a living sense of loyalty to each other, a real willingness to bear the load together?" he said.

"How eager are we to find some spot where we feel safe from the pressures that are crippling and terrifying others? As has more than once been said, we can and will as a society bear hardship if we are confident that it is being fairly shared; and we shall have that confidence only if there are signs that everyone is committed to their neighbour, that no one is just forgotten, that no interest group or pressure group is able to opt out."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/25/archbishop-canterbury-speech-rich-poor

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[xchrom]

1. recommend

[SpiralHawk]

2. "Charity is just another name for socialism." - Republicons

War is peace.
Oil is clean.
Hate is love.
Obedience is mandatory.
Charity is socialism.
Ignorance is strength.
Rich are virtuous.
Poor are evil.
Fear is good.
Up is down.

- Republicons

[freshwest]

7. Oh, that is perfect. Thanks.

[MedicalAdmin]

11. Just for today, Set aside the stick of truth.

And try to see the good in your fellow American. We all can return to regular programming tomorrow.

[Towlie]

29. Oh really, "MedicalAdmin"? I heard yesterday that doctors are being laid off. Is that true?

[MedicalAdmin]

63. Not at our clinic

But we don't bill or deal with insurance companies. The bigger problem with trends in docs is that it is getting impossible to get primary care physicians. The ones who are in it can't afford their student loans and we actively council doc not to take that path anymore unless they want to starve while working 90 hours per week. When primaries disappear then health care is over.

[truedelphi]

47. Those for whom Christmas is just one more day of worry, and

tremendous concern about housing, food, health care, don't have that option.

Plus the constant FaLalAlAlAlAlA dur-ol can be annoying.

A lot of Americans didn't wake up today with new cars with new ribbons tied to the hood.

Or any of the other amenities (like housing) of what used to pass for American Middle Class life.

[MedicalAdmin]

64. No arguments here.

I haven't taken a salary in almost 3 years and although I work at clinic I can't get insurance because of the cost. And yah - I worked on Christmas .

But hell, let up for a day. You'll come back refreshed for the fight. Or not.

[54anickel]

18. I tend to think they like charity - that way they have total control over how much and to whom their

wealth goes. They would like charity to be the fix for all ills. You'll get yours after I get mine....assuming I deem you worthy. I prefer to envision a world where charity is no longer needed - there's enough for everyone and everyone has enough. Then the rich can divvy what's left...and there still would be plenty for the rich to divvy!

[jwirr]

27. I am assuming that you are talking about none governmental aid.

And you are correct private charity is often connected to who you are and what you will do once you get their charity. Been there done that.

[JDPriestly]

61. I worked in fundraising for some years, and, yes, I agree with you, 54anickel

Look at Bill Gates. He could just give money to the public schools. But, no, although he has no training in education, probably not much training in educational psychology and little, if any, teaching experience (beyond the occasional speech), he wants to completely change our system and privatize it. He is going to take education out of the control of communities, if the public, and control it himself.

Bill Gates is an example of a control freak pretending to give something away. He just cannot let go, not even when he knows full well that he doesn't need what he is giving away, even when he probably doesn't know what he is doing. Charitable giving is just a power trip for the very rich.

[Recursion]

22. Well, no. Republicans give more to charity than we do, on average

And the average Republican is poorer than the average Democrat. Charity is what they believe in.

[bengalherder]

35. They believe in charity because with charity

you get to inflict your pet philosophy on a captive audience.

I must add 'not in all cases'. There are ones who don't require you listen to anything, but many of them do, and the ones that do seem to be the ones with ulterior motives.

[daleo]

40. Liberals pay their taxes more willingly

I have always found being cheap and avoiding paying their fair share of taxes, while throwing a few scraps to charity, to be a key feature of conservative thinking. It's all about power, control and social status.

Even at that, moat conservatives cheat their fellow conservatives by giving little or nothing to charity, letting a few of their more large minded fellow conservatives (and liberals) carry that burden too.

The problem of relying on charity is that it is advantageous to let the other people do all the giving, personally avoiding charity and taxes. Using taxes to address social issues is much more just all around, especially if the tax system is fair (i.e. progressive).

Anyone who pays their fair share of taxes willingly is doing more to help the poor than those who give to charity, yet undermine equitable taxation.

[TygrBright]

48. So OTT it didn't even NEED the "sarcasm" tag. Nice one! n/t

[nxylas]

46. Actually, Republicans like charity

They'd rather the poor were dependent on the largesse of the rich than actually entitled to get any of their tax dollars back in the form of government benefits.

[Sherman A1]

3. K&R

It will never happen, but it's a nice Christmas Sermon.

[Cirque du So-What]

4. The rich are going to shoulder the load?

When pigs fly! Shouldering the load is for the serfs! It's several levels below their station.

[katnapped]

5. Fat chance!

Me thinks the "archbishop" will be painted as a bomb-throwing leftist by the 'usual-folk'

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. He already is

:-)

[WinkyDink]

6. Why should "hardship" be ANYONE'S lot? Stupid Archbishop. He should call for the poor to be LIFTED

OUT of hardship.

[rasputin1952]

8. As the world devolves into a more Dickensian like situation...

it is appropriate that the Archbishop speaks out.

At the turn of the 19th Century, Teddy Roosevelt spoke out against the extreme poverty of those in the slums of NYC, and a good portion of the wealthy did a lot to tear down the tenements. During Dickens' time, his books helped bring London and the rest of GB into enlightenment of the travails of the poor and misused.

It seems that as we enter a new age of extreme poverty while others live on the sweat of another's brow, that people of standing rise to the challenge and fault those that have helped to create a system where wealth gushes up and the rest drown in a sea of poverty.

Good for the Archbishop...and all others who would hold the wealthy to account for what they have helped produce.

[daleo]

41. The examples of the French and Russian revolutions

Also prodded the rich in Britain and the U.S., just a bit.

[Autumn Colors]

9. Yeah, right. Good luck with that. (nt)

[DailyGrind51]

10. Benendict XVI said the same thing over 2 years ago and no one listened!

[MedicalAdmin]

14. It starts with one voice. I hope it keeps going untitled it is billions of voices.

[Autumn Colors]

24. LOL.... I wouldn't hold your breath til that happens (nt)

[calimary]

54. I do too. But it's got to start with one voice.

Hey, you have to start somewhere!

[TygrBright]

49. Gee... I wonder why he has such a credibility/image problem? n/t

[Confusious]

12. The poor have to share the burden

with the people who fucked things up in the first place.

Seems fair.

[Turbineguy]

13. Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkykJ5uFqPI

[paparush]

15. The Rich yawn, and have the butler throw a few more poor onto the fire.

[Hugabear]

16. How many billions is the Catholic church worth?

Always gets me when religious types - especially those rolling in money - ask others to share the burden.

[Scruffy1]

19. Church of England-but you are so right,

These parasites jingle a few coins at the poor because its good for their business, which is making sure that they have a reason to raise money. If they actually worked to make the system work for everyone they would be out of the collecting money for the poor business. The churches have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are. The speech is safe because he knows no one will follow his advice.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. Actually, the Church of England is not rolling in money largely because of

their high level of expenses (all those 1000-year-old cathedrals and parish to maintain--they ALL have scaffolding around them at all times) and the low level of church attendance, and they don't get as much money as other state churches in Europe.

[meow2u3]

17. I agree--in part

All "austerity" measures must include progressive taxation, including, and especially, massive tax increases on wealth. The poor should not have to shoulder the burden of what the rich screwed up.

[RoccoR5955]

23. HERE HERE!

All should share the burden of this time of austerity.

[IamK]

25. Church of England is the rich

CHURCH FACTS

Annual investment income £177.8m
Central assets £5.7bn
Central land holdings: 112,000 acres
Local land holdings: 129,000 acres (Financial Times estimate)
Nominal members (UK) 24M(Population 60.6m)
Average Sunday church attendance (UK) 871,000 (Average Catholic Church attendance 869,221)
Members worldwide 70M
Church attenders worldwide 25M


One religious denomination in the United Kingdom is formally recognised and given a privileged status by the state. It is the "established" church of the nation. That church is the Church of England or Anglican Church.
http://www.centreforcitizenship.org/church1.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. There may be 70 million members worldwide, but each national church

is totally independent. The C of E doesn't even get contributions from Scotland, whose Anglican church is governed separately.

The Anglican Communion is a loose confederation headed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, but outside of England (where he shares power with the Archbishop of York), he doesn't have the kind of authority that the Pope has, not even close. That's why the controversy about gays has gone on so long. Since each national church is independent, the Archbishop has no power to tell the African churches to get over themselves and join the modern world.

The "land holdings," are mostly historic churches, which cost a mint to keep up and are difficult to use for any other purpose except giving concerts. At one of the cathedrals I visited (either Salisbury or Wells, I forget which), they had a sign up saying that it cost £2000 a day just to keep the thousand-year-old building open, given the expenses of repairs, heating in the winter, staff salaries, etc.

I was once under the impression that the Church of England, like the state churches in Scandinavia and Germany, is fully tax-supported, but a British friend corrected me. They actually receive very little money from the government and are reliant on contributions and investments. (Every denomination, outside of the few state churches that are fully tax supported, has investments, but they are NOT used for gold-plated lifestyles for the clergy. They are used for operating expenses and charitable work. Having grown up as a Lutheran preacher's kid and spent time as a vestry member--board member--and senior warden--top lay officer--of an Episcopal parish, I have some inside knowledge here.)

Furthermore, some of the most active C of E parishes are in immigrant communities, especially Caribbean immigrant communities, so it's not entirely a church of the rich. They also do charitable work of all kinds.

Their financial picture is therefore less affluent than the raw numbers would suggest.

[jwirr]

26. Finally a minister who is not afraid to speak out.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Oh, there are many, but most of them aren't as famous as the Archbishop

The Reverend Joe Blow from Any City, USA, (or Any City, UK) will not receive worldwide coverage if he makes such a pronouncement.

[felix_numinous]

28. Which is what every spiritual leader worth their salt should be drumming

over and over. All of them.

[jimlup]

30. What I find sad is that these calls will go unheeded because the rich ...

give lip service to this stuff and then proceed to ignore it.

[Crowman1979]

33. WHAT!?!?!? THAT'S SOCIALISM!!!

:sarcasm:

[bitchkitty]

34. So ambivalent...

On the one hand, I want to congratulate this guy, and on the other, I want to tell the Church to do their part as well. Even those who can little afford it tithe to the Church. Instead of building more temples, they could give that money back.

They could help the poor in all Catholic countries by allowing birth control. Then they might want to think about women priests.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Having been a preacher's kid and on the vestry (board) of an Episcopal parish,

let me assure you that tithing is VERY RARE unless it's the Mormons or one of those fundamentalist outfits where the self-ordained preacher tells the congregation that they're going to go to hell unless they tithe.

My parish feeds 200-400 people a week, provides business clothing for people who are job hunting, sponsors refugees, works on Habitat for Humanity projects, has a drop-in center for the homeless, and sends work teams to disaster areas.

The Church of England has had women priests for years (ever seen "The Vicar of Dibley"?) and isn't building a lot of new churches, seeing as they have been around since the Middle Ages and have a historic church every few blocks in most cities.

They're also totally cool with birth control and again, have been for years.

[bitchkitty]

52. Ha - I saw Archbishop and immediately thought THE Church,

as a long time refugee from Catholicism I've still got a long way to go. Merry Christmas!

[Rhiannon12866]

36. K&R...

And wishing you a Merry Christmas, my friend! :hi: :yourock:

[Turborama]

45. THank you

Wishing you a very Merry Christmas, too my dear fiend. :hi: Right back at yah! :yourock:

[bengalherder]

37. Well, it certainly is an interesting juxtaposition

The Bish of Canterbury vs. The Bish O' Rome. One pleads for the rich to shoulder the burden, the other blames the 70's for abuse that has gone on historically in the church and at the same time is professing a kind of cathlo-christic exceptionalism, looking for persecution where there is none, or at worst when also shared by any minority religion in a given region. The pope has been quite slippery in his wordings. Am I to believe that China only persecutes Catholics/christians to the exclusion of everyone else, such as tibetan buddists, bon shamans, falun gong,etc etc.?

[bengalherder]

38. PS: The CoE is more progressive than the Church of Rome

They have women priests and were one of the first in the states to get over discrimination due to sex and sexual preference.

I'm not a fan of organized relgion, but dinosaurs they ain't.

[daleo]

39. What a strange Christian

It's like he is actually taking the message of Jesus seriously.

[AsahinaKimi]

43. I am really sure

The Republicans will listen to him,:sarcasm: Meh! They have respect for no one, but their rich selves.

[dipsydoodle]

44. Yes - redistrubute ALL wealth perpetually..

and then..........

[Turborama]

68. Which is a total misrepresentation of what he actually said

Anyone who has read and/or heard what he said would know that.

[dipsydoodle]

69. I didn't say he did say that.

It was me saying that.

[DeSwiss]

50. I wonder which of the Archbishop's TWO mansions he'll be donating to the poor??? n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. About the same time Barack Obama donates the White House and Camp David

to the poor.

In other words, the residences (Lambeth Palace in London and the Old Palace in Canterbury) come with the office and are not his personal property. I don't know much about the Old Palace, except that it's on the grounds of Canterbury Cathedral, but Lambeth Palace is as much an administrative center as a residence.

Unlike the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury is not a lifetime appointment. They have no fixed term, but I have heard that they are expected to retire by the age of 70.

[DeSwiss]

56. My question was rhetorical. n/t

[Turborama]

57. It was a nonsensical question

Seeing as he can't donate either properties to the poor, even if he really wants to...

[DeSwiss]

58. Neither you nor I KNOW whether he could sell them for certain or not.

His powers as the number two of The Church of England (the queen being the head) might suggest otherwise. All of which is quite irrelevant to my point being that the church has in TWO mansions at all! That small point seems to have gotten totally lost. But it's interesting to know that you don't subscribe to the religious axiom: "With god all things are possible."


- You're not alone.......

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. OK, so you were being snarky

So can Obama sell the White House if he chooses?

[DeSwiss]

66. Yes He Can!!! :-D

All he has to do is say he needs to sell it for national security reasons (covered under The Patriot Act most likely) and/or in order to thwart The Terrarists™ -- and you won't hear a peep or a whimper from anyone for fear of being considered a disloyal Amurikan.

- In fact he very likely will sell it -- right after he gives Guantanamo back to Cuba.......

[mdmc]

51. r

[vssmith]

53. Maybe a guy like him could get me back to church

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. thats a good message

[sam sarrha]

60. our Dominionist Clepto-Capitalists can kick your sorry Samaritan's ass's.. get over it...get a job.

:sarcasm: it does little good to beg from Psychopathic OCD Wealth Hoarders and gambling addicts. what we need is a good ole French Revolution... their government has faired well having early removed many of the Psychopaths from their gene pool

[StarsInHerHair]

62. about time, he's speaking (roughly) like they did in films or the 30s & 40s

we need leaders HERE who demand the "strongest" among us help shoulder the burdens, strongest here meaning wealthier. All for 1 and 1 for all.

[kwassa]

67. The Archbishop also supports homophobic bigot archbishops in other countries

He appeases the Nigerian and Ugandan archbishops of the Anglican church who support anti-gay legislation in their countries, up to and including legislation that recommends homosexuals being put to death for their sexual orientation.

He does nothing about their attempts to encroach upon US churches, which is in direct violation of communion rules.

Rowan is spineless, and enables bigots.

[LeftishBrit]

70. Of course some Good British Christians think he's a dreadful leftie

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cristinaodone/100062720/rowan-williams-wants-to-be-like-thomas-more-but-risks-looking-like-don-quixote/

[okieinpain]

71. haha, hey I know i'm late to post on this, but it's obvious this

guy is a terrorist. hahahahaha.....