Israel wishes US victory in Iraq; will not negotiate hostages liberation

[leftchick]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040409/wl_mideast_afp/mideast&cid=1514&ncid=1480

<snip>
JERUSALEM (AFP) - Israel expressed its full support for embattled US troops in Iraq (news - web sites), drawing parallels with its own situation in the Middle East and saying it hopes America will crush "terrorism".

Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz told media that Israelis were "crossing our fingers for the Americans in Iraq -- their success is vital for world peace."

"If the Americans manage to control the situation in Iraq, which Israel is convinced they will, it will have a positive impact on the whole Middle East, (on) the oil market and the international community's authority," the hawkish former chief of staff told Friday's edition of the Yediot Aharonot.

Mofaz said he was persuaded that "America is strong and will put a halt to any attempt to turn Iraq into a terrorist state."

[NeoConsSuck]

1. You can wish all you want..

it ain't gonna happen.

[nonbelief]

2. LOL

I'm sure the U.S administration appreciates Israel drawing parallels between the American position in Iraq and Israel's position in the Occupied Territories...

Jebus Christ on a bicycle! With friends like that.....

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polazarus]

59. Well

From the posts in this thread, it looks like Isreal is a better ally than the Americans posting.

[not systems]

74. Better ally to Bush maybe...

but he is a traitor to Americans.

So where does that put the Israeli far right?

Murders and criminals just like Bush.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

76. Right. Israel has been pushing us into a Middle Eastern war since...

...since the 1950s. Looks like they finally got their wish.

[The Stranger]

73. The Israelization of America

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/brooks1.html

The Israelization of America

US officials recently announced the somewhat jarring news that Israeli security forces will be training American soldiers in the techniques of urban warfare. Apparently Israel's illegal thirty-five year occupation of Palestine has enabled it to perfect tactics that our troops will need in a 'possible' war on Iraq.

Most informed Americans will receive this news with a sense of both foreboding and dislocation. The brutal tactics of the Israeli "Defense" Forces have been denounced for decades by human rights groups, the United Nations, and scores of foreign governments. Is this how we want our own troops to fight? Our sense of dislocation (even "topsy-turvy") in greeting this news traces to something else; the fact that Israel has always been our client, not the other way around. Why are the Israelis now teaching us?

Is this really something new, or is it merely an unusually explicit lesson in the continuing education of American power by the Israeli vanguard? Who has been learning from whom in this "special relationship"?

[nonbelief]

3. And as for the Israeli hostages....

The Israeli hostages are Arab Israelis...

If they had been Jewish Israelis the Israeli government would be negotiating with the kidnappers already.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. Bullcrap

Israel has longstanding policies about not negotiating with terrorists. Your statement is ridiculous.

Israel looks out for all of its citizens.

[The Land of the Free]

12. I agree

You cannot negotiate with them. If you do it once, there will be many more kidnappings, with much worse repsonses. And not just Israel looks out for its citizens. All countries do, well, except for China and that whole executing petty criminals thing.

[The Stranger]

17. Please wake up.

They negotiate with terrorists all of the time. Israel even funds terrorist groups when it suits the government's immediate interests. The U.S. funds terrorist groups when it suits the U.S. government's immediate interests.

The lies about "not negotiating with terrorists" is only hauled out for the Chimp to read when the U.S. has some killing it has to do, and wants to go about doing it.

[54anickel]

27. Agreed. The statement is hauled out when it suits their purposes. n/t

[Muddleoftheroad]

55. More bullcrap

Israel, long ago, tried to set up an alternative to the terrorists of the PLO.

Long ago, not now.

[not systems]

79. Yea...

Hamas look how well that worked out.

Your perfect nation created it's own enemy's not unlike we do.

Like old Saddam on the pay roll in the good old days
or better still Osama when every two bit patriot screamed
for Soviet blood just like they lust for Muslim blood today.

Fools and fools who follow fools.

Two peas in a pod.

[Muddleoftheroad]

92. Israel had ready-made enemies

Many of whom backed those other guys during WWII. What a shock.

Those enemies have spent 55 years trying to destroy Israel.

Despite this, Israel has managed peace with Jordan. Peace with Egypt. And a good solid working relationship with the Islamic nation of Turkey.

Not bad all things considered.

[not systems]

93. Agreed.

Fortunately president Carter was able to balance support
for Israel with the opinions of Egypt and Jordan
something that has not happened since.

If balance was brought back to our policy peace might have a chance.

Until then Israel will continue to run wild.

[Muddleoftheroad]

99. Balance?

Does balance mean backing our enemies? (The PA supported Iraq in BOTH Gulf wars.)

No nation ignores its allies to aid its enemies for "balance." No sane nation anyway.

[not systems]

102. Yes balance. The Palestinians are not enemies they are a people.

We should recognize them as a wronged people and have
a policy of righting the wrong starting with a suspension
of military aid and money to Israel unless they follow
the international road map to peace on our time table
not theirs.

We should dictate the terms after all we have payed for it.

They should withdraw to the 1967 borders leaving all
settlements as reparations to the dispossessed Palestinians
who have lost everything.

Israel is not an ally but a dependency and should not expect
to dictate policy as long it spends the tax dollars of Americans.

[Muddleoftheroad]

108. The Palestinians were wronged by their Arab brethren

Who use them as tools to remain in power and not fix either the freedoms or the economic climate of their nations.

Israel is the scapegoat for all that is wrong in the Arab world and the Palestinian people suffer for that as well.

How can Israel make peace when the majority of Palestinians (according to a recent survey) support terror and certainly most support Arafat who supports terror?

The only reparations the Palestinians should get should come from the Arab nations. Those nations not only took advantage of the Palestinians, but they ethnically cleansed their states of Jews. Perhaps THAT compensation should go the Palestinians and make everyone satisfied.

Israel is and has been our only true ally in that region. It provides intelligence and support for U.S. activities throughout the Mideast.

[not systems]

112. No doubt about that.

But they have been wronged by Israel also.

It seems like a major break for you to considered them wronged at all.

The only way to make peace is to do it.

End the occupation.

End the reasons for terror by sowing the seeds of peace.

The real question is how can Israel not make peace there is
no other future worth having.

Israel should pay reparations for all the infrastructure
destroyed and all land degraded by settlement activities including
your peace fence.

Israel is a small and dependent country it is time to recognize
it for what it is a small state devoid of useful resources engaged
in a self destructive cycle of violence that has spilled over
into affecting the vital interests of the USA to promote global
economic growth through the universal application of law.

Israel under Sharon is a unilateral war mongering nation just like
the USA under Bush.

They need new leaders and we need new leaders both have killers
and criminals at the helm.

[Muddleoftheroad]

117. Not a major break, I support a Palestinian state

Whenever the Palestinian leadership decides on a peaceful and anti-terrorist path.

As for what you consider the "occupation," here you and I differ. Why should Israel give up land and get nothing in return? It gets no peace treaty. No agreed to borders. No commitments whatsoever. And then it all begins again.

That is foolish beyond belief.

As for the Peace Fence, it is long overdue. It is a way to separate two warring groups and protect Israeli civilians from endless terror attacks.

I'm sorry you consider Israel "a small state devoid of useful resources," since that isn't true. Israel has an advanced high-tech economy and could be a major employer for the region if its enemies stopped waging war and terror against it.

Israel chose Sharon to do exactly what generals do, defend it from massive ongoing attack. If the Palestinians chose peace, Sharon would be gone with the wind.

[not systems]

119. Let them implement the road map on...

our time table.

Let Israel pull back to the 1967 borders and defend them even
building a big border fence on their own land.

As for giving up something for nothing you can't give up
what was never yours.

They would only return what the took by force to it's rightfully owners.

It is obvious that Palestinian leadership is not the impediment
to what I out lined only the bravery of the Israeli and American
leadership the walk the path of peace.

Expecting Arafat to make the first move is just a way of letting
killers like Bush and Sharon of the hook.

Who cares what Arafat does he is old and weak any power he
had to affect anything has been systematically destroyed by Sharon.

If they do and we do then the cycle of terror will break and
two people can live side by side separately at first but eventually
as true neighbors.

As long as we hold our leaders to no higher standard than expecting
them to preserve the balance of terror then that is all the future holds.

[polazarus]

60. Just wait...

You thought America was brutal baby killers? I see some terrorist funerals in the near future.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

75. You must be referring to the NeoCons.

[not systems]

80. Is Henry Kissinger sick?

What about Richard Pearl he doesn't looks so good.

[The Stranger]

16. Bullcrap is right.

Israel would have launched a commando unit to rescue the citizens, or would have infiltrated whatever groups are necessary to get their more-favored citizens back. It would have already been done and no one would even know about it.

[question everything]

19. There is a difference

The hostages were there on their own free will, hoping to provide aid. Which is why this would be a sure way to turn many Arabs, certainly Palestinians against the kidnappers.

If they were brought there against their will, as with the famous case of Uganda in 1976, Israel might have considered such a raid. Though it is not always easy. After all, there are several Israelis still missing in Lebanon but such a raid obviously is not feasible.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

77. Right. Whatever you say.

[mbperrin]

21. So I guess the BBC made this up?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3343263.stm

Israel welcomes hostage 'miracle'


Relatives described their relief at the men's release
Israeli relatives of four hostages freed by Colombian rebels have hailed their release as a "Hanukkah miracle".

<snip>
Mr Shalom also thanked the Israeli Embassy in Bogota "who spared no effort in working for the release of the hostages and was available for the hostages' families during their most difficult hours".

more...

[DulceDecorum]

22. Thank you, Muddleoftheroad.

I have been very upset with they way things are going and I really needed a good laugh.

[The Zanti Regent]

65. Israel looks out for all of its citizens...

Even those denied a right to vote because they are Arab?

Remember what Archbishop Tutu said about Israel?

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0516-01.htm

"I have been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us blacks in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.

[nodehopper]

13. Israel has a longstanding policy of non-negociaton.

Your statement is inaccurate.

[polazarus]

57. Nope

he is right on the money.

[adriennui]

26. israel did not negotiate for jewish/israeli prisoners

it took years for the return of the bodies of 2 israeli soldiers who were killed a while back. in that agreement, israel released over 100 suspected terrorists for the dead israelis.

i disagree with your basic premise that israel is not negotiating because they're arab/israelis.

[0007]

4. Israel is as guilty of terrorism as anyone in the world

And the Defense Meister Shaul Mofraz adds fuel by such statements....their (U.S.) success is vital for world peace."

So it appears that genocide is the answer to their phobias, 'eh?

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. Lovely propaganda, just plain not true

Unless terrorism is defending yourself from psycho murdering bastards who deliberately blow up little children.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nodehopper]

14. hey...take it over to the Israel/Palestine forum

[The Stranger]

18. No, leave it here in LBN.

This is about the U.S.

[0007]

25. Thank you my friend

[nodehopper]

43. ok, good point

there was just starting to be nasty I/P flaming going on.

[mmm]

10. Are you saying the IDF are psycho murdering bastards?

... cool

[Muddleoftheroad]

109. Putting words into my mouth

Is always just so pathetic.

[nonbelief]

24. Excuse Me?

The modern state of Israel was founded on terrorism! How the hell do you think palestinian villages were ethnically cleansed?


Ever read of the mass slaughter of Palestinians? Today some Israeli supporters admit that such thing occured, but have the temerity to defend them as "necessary" to regain the land "God promised the Jews".

[Muddleoftheroad]

56. the Palestinian villages

Owe the war to their Arab buddies and ALL the resultant realities.

[0007]

69. Sanity comes home to roost, Sir

"The prime source of animosity towards the United States is the lack of progress in dealing with the Palestinian issue," Carter said, adding that past U.S. administrations since Harry Truman's have maintained a "balanced position" in dealing with the rights of the Arab population within the Jewish nation.

"The present administration has not done so at all. We have been exclusively committed to the policies of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Israel, and have made no effort to try to have a balanced negotiating position between Israel and the Palestinians," Carter said.

Carter, who brokered the historic 1978 Camp David accords that led to peace between Israel and Egypt, noted that President George H.W. Bush threatened to halt foreign aid when Israel began building settlements in Palestinian territory.

plenty more...

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2494559

[not systems]

81. Humanism at it's best as always.

:puke:

I suppose you thought the Bosnian Muslims deserved what
the Serbs gave because of crimes of the Ottoman occupation.

[number6]

105. wrong

"Owe the war to their Arab buddies and ALL the resultant realities"

that doesn't even make sense

they were run out of there villages by Israeli's

[Muddleoftheroad]

110. Palestinians left in the middle of a war zone

A war caused by the Arabs' unwillingness to accept the UN mandate creating Israel.

[polazarus]

61. Man....

What in the heck do you Call The PLO?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

78. What do you call Hamas?...

<http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r>

Excerpt:

"Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years."

[adriennui]

31. you're so right

israel is an uncivilized backward country. it alone is responsible for the primitive attitudes in the region as well as plagues of locusts, floods, and pestilence.
if it wasn't for israel everyone would smile and love one another.

[lumpy]

33. Oil ?

The Defense Minister "...a positive impact on the whole Middle East,(on) the OIL market and international community authority. Ok, so this is what it is all about, Oil and Authority (power).

Whacko statement "America is strong and will put a halt to any attempt to turn Iraq into a terrorist state." So what can you do to halt the crop from growing, "as you sow, so shall you reap". Who did the sowing here?

[polazarus]

62. Uhhh

Whacked out Arabs on some Muslim induced psychosis

[not systems]

83. Took a wrong turn at...

tiny green ball haters.

You seem to have a case of islamo-phobia.

[Jim Sagle]

39. When genocide occurs, the target population decreases (usually to zero).

The Palestinian population is increasing.

Case dismissed.

[not systems]

85. This is crap.

You drag this out like a holy saber but by your
ridicules definition Hitler didn't really commit genocide.

It is a stupid definition and a stupid thing to say
but everyday there it is.

Obviously Hitler did commit genocide and obviously
the destruction of a society by bulldozer and imprisonment
with in pens is a large step toward a permanent place of infamy in
the history of the world as the victims who turned into victimizers
and never became a light to the world.

Guess you will have to buy another pizza.

:puke:

[Jim Sagle]

91. K...let's have a little logic class here.

You drag this out like a holy saber but by your
ridicules definition Hitler didn't really commit genocide.

Lessee...my definition was: "When genocide occurs, the target population decreases (usually to zero)." One of Hitler's target population was European Jews, and their population did decrease by about 6 million, or as close to zero as he could manage. So my definition holds.

It is a stupid definition and a stupid thing to say

It's stupid because it's true? :wtf:

Case dismissed on appeal.

[not systems]

94. There are formerly Palestinian villages who's ...

current Palestinian population is now zero.

Genocide describes the policy that made it happen.

Right?

Or transfer or ethnic cleansing or whatever same results
people who used to live there are gone.

Some dead some in other countries some in walled refugee camps.

[Jim Sagle]

98. But overall, the Palestinian population keeps growing by leaps and bounds.

[not systems]

100. No law against having children. Right?

I don't know what you are suggesting perhaps you could
share what you have in mind.

One child program ala China or forced sterilization?

What?

It is hard to see where you are coming from or going to
with this type of thinking.

Child licenses?

[Muddleoftheroad]

101. What he is suggesting is that your claim of genocide is ridiculous

And suggesting is an understatement.

Your said: "There are formerly Palestinian villages who's ... current Palestinian population is now zero. Genocide describes the policy that made it happen."

That's just a silly statement. Genocide would mean Israel went in and wiped out all those people. That's downright embarrassingly silly.

[not systems]

104. What is embarrassing is your single minded defence...

of the indefensible.

And the simple comprehension errors in your reading of what I wrote.

I posed the statement that a policy that took a population
to zero was a policy of genocide or transfer or ethnic cleansing
or whatever same results people who used to live there are gone.

The people who lived there are gone.

What do you call that?

Peace relocation?

Peace deportation?

What linguistic hoops do you jump through to describe the
disappearance of the former Palestinian population from their
former homes in Israel?

[Jim Sagle]

106. They scrammed.

[not systems]

107. Why? Because of men with guns made them.

What about the population growth?

I noticed you didn't jump in and say how you really feel.

To hot to handle or wouldn't be prudent I suppose.

Share what you really think about Palestinian babies born in Israel.

I'm all ears.

[Muddleoftheroad]

111. Palestinian babies born in Israel

Are Israelis. How do YOU feel about that?

[not systems]

113. Good. I support citizenship for all children born in any...

country.

I love that they also have the right to vote when they grow up.

I believe in democracy.

May they be fruitful and multiply.

My question was what does the other fellow think about them
because it sound like he might think they were a problem based
on his up thread posts.

How about you?

How do you feel about the Palestinian children?

[Muddleoftheroad]

118. They are children

If they start strapping on bombs, then they become the enemy -- and a problem.

Those who grow up as Israeli citizens can vote in Israel. Those who are not Israeli citizens can't vote in Israel. Funny how that works.

[not systems]

120. People have the right to resist occupation...

it is international law.

End the occupation and then the cycle of terror will be broken.

When police turned dogs on children in the south
they were just doing their job up holding the system.

When the occupation forces shoot children with bullets
rubber or otherwise they are just doing their job up holding the system.

In both cases it was the system that was wrong.

Human rights must be extended to the people you dislike the most.

How do you feel about Israeli Arabs who marry Palestinians
shouldn't they be able to live with their husbands or wives
in Israel?

Don't you think love and family should be respected?

[Jim Sagle]

114. Ross Perot, is that you?

[not systems]

115. Good one.

:toast:

I guess you got no real answer.

Or should I say I guess you got nuthin'

[Jim Sagle]

116. I answered your question definitively. Then I moved on.

[tlcandie]

5. Ya CRUSHING terrorism equals crushing people ... nice!

And since terrorism is nothing more than a generalization, it allows one to do all out massive attacks and just roll over a people or a society in the name of justice over terrorism! :puke:

[polazarus]

63. Just like

Those crazy arabian borne persons did on 911. If they did not attack us we would have never been in this situation.

[not systems]

86. The Iraqis had nothing to do with 911...

are you being a clever mole or are you just ignorant
of this fact.

If your just ignorant let me know and I will dig up
a clue stick for you.

[0007]

9. btt

[Mari333]

11. Screw them. n/t

[madaboutharry]

23. Screw who?

n/t

[Mari333]

28. Screw Sharon n/t

[adriennui]

34. a bit simplistic

is it OK if i say screw arafat, screw osama, screw bashir assad?

statements like yours don't accomplish anything and do notthing to solve the problem.

[Mari333]

47. statements like mine are perfectly reasonable since my kid

is over there in Baghdad and could die anyday.
Screw Sharon and screw the US Armageddon Lobby

http://www.againstbombing.com/ArmageddonUpdates.htm

[diamond14]

70. stop giving Israel any more American taxpayer money....that

would go a long long way toward stopping the violence....

over $20 Billion dollars of United States taxpayers money goes to Israel every single year, and it's time to stop that....

Keep our money here in America to use for OUR schools, seniors, medical care...it's time to stop giving OUR money to Israel...

[not systems]

89. Sharon is no friend of the American people.

Why should Americans watch what they say about him.

Is their some special reason I should consider him
better than a killer and crook like Bush.

[not systems]

88. Not another American should die for his madness.

Bring them back to the USA. Now!!!

[54anickel]

30. Screw those who choose to "stay the course". From the article -

But he warned that "if the Americans are forced to withdraw from Iraq as a result of terrorist pressures, a new and dangerous Arab regime will seize power. The axis of evil will lift its head again and threaten world peace."

Those who support this misguided carnage are attempting to "terrorize" the world by statements such as that quote. If you do not stay and continue to fight in this insane war, world peace will be threatened. What world peace, read the headlines in todays LBN alone and it looks as if we are headed into WWIV. Continuation of the madness is much more of a threat to world peace than this BS war Chimpy refuses to even recognize as such.

[enough]

20. Whatever side you are on, the implications of this story are frightening.

snip>

But he (Mofaz) warned that "if the Americans are forced to withdraw from Iraq as a result of terrorist pressures, a new and dangerous Arab regime will seize power. The axis of evil will lift its head again and threaten world peace."

By contrast, Palestinian militant groups expressed their solidarity with Iraqi insurgents.

Hamas chief Abdelaziz Rantissi said late Thursday: "We want to tell you that we are with you. Here, we fight the terrorism of Israel and you fight American terrorism."

snip>

In other words, we have turned Iraq into the new center of an ongoing war. What a success for American foreign policy.

[jmcgowanjm]

29. The only nation to benefit from 911 and Iraq invasion

[adriennui]

32. the same old tired propaganda

from the same old israel bashers. the paranoia and hatred concerning israel from some DUers is bewildering. it was the one issue that prevented me from signing on to DU. i just don't understand how irrational the hatred is.

how has israel benefited from our invasion of iraq.
do you really believe israel has bamboozled the bush administration into doing something it didn't want to do?

[0007]

35. I'll go along with Jimmy Carter on this one,

....and many DUers will agree with what this great man sez about today's Israel and the United States.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/2494559

[lumpy]

38. Thank you for posting Carters,

statement of the truth,0007. If only we had this sort of cool headed leadership now. The United States has turned the corner into 'neo fascism' and left democracy and peace behind, weeping in the wings. When we think of the diplomatic efforts of past administrations using measured steps in solving problems it is disheartening to realize we are being controlled by rash headed power hungry ideologists.

[Jim Sagle]

40. Carter ain't nuthin' but a bucktoothed bozo.

[0007]

45. LOL!! Yeah right

[lumpy]

46. The Bulldozer ain't nothin'

but a fat bacon eatin'warmonger.

[Jim Sagle]

52. Yee hah!

[0007]

68. So does that mean Jimmy has got class, 'eh Jimbo?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

95. This post is just a bookmark

For future reference. Move on, nothing to see here.

[not systems]

97. noted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x16609

[not systems]

90. Carter is a true American hero.

"In the meantime, of course, the Israelis have established hundreds of settlements all over Palestinian land with no critical comment ever coming from the present Bush administration," Carter said.

The truth from a voice of reason in the world.

[drfemoe]

36. you didn't ask me

and I really don't know. It does seem that, during this juncture in the time line of human history, the US and I*rael agree that permanent warfare is desirable. Permanent until all your *enemies* are eradicated, ie blown from the face of the planet. I hope I'm wrong.

[jmcgowanjm]

72. Name one neocon

[stepnw1f]

96. Whatever

Go smoke a crack pipe. These people have made great points. Supporting Sharon is a huge mistake. And yes, invading one's territory and expecting people to go along with it is fucked up!! I don't want my tax money going to Israel's current government.

[mbperrin]

103. How about benefitting from sales of military items?

http://www.aipac.org/documents/madeinisrael.html

Dollars are always a motivator.

or here:

http://www.iai.co.il/site/en/iai.asp?pi=12013

Customer list will look very familiar to those who search US companies supplying the Iraqi war.

There's more: just Google Israeli Military Industries

[lumpy]

37. Israel leadership has made the bed

that the citizens of Israel have to sleep in. The right wing leadership, under Sharon and the now dead voice of Kahane, has created the the negative response many people have to Israel's Palestinian problem. Now the citizens of the US have to sleep in the bloody bed Bush has created.

[Jim Sagle]

41. Israel was never under Kahane's "leadership."

[lumpy]

48. That is correct, sagle

Kahane's "leadership" comprised of hate mongering violent rhetoric against the Arab. He was a leader in that he did his damnest to influence this hate against the Palestinians that rhetoric still echos silently in the thoughts of many Israelis. Do you dare tell your assessment of Kahane?

[Jim Sagle]

53. Same as yours, except: 1) Sharon and Kahane are not even remotely

comparable; and 2) he was never a significant force in Israel (or here in America, either).

[lumpy]

64. I will compare them.

One used rhetoric and the other uses bulldozers and bullets to get the message across. The message: What was once Palestine belongs to the Jew and not to the Arab and we will use any means to secure and rule that land. The Arab can remain if they live under our rules and governing.

[Jim Sagle]

71. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

:boring:

[The Stranger]

87. For starters, Begin was a follower of Jabotinsky.

Do you want to keep going?

[Submariner]

42. Israel should SHUT UP

and not be wishing the U.S. victory with Iraq. Israel has brought a lot of hate upon themselves by the Arab world, and the more they associate themselves with the U.S. efforts in Iraq, the more Israel is going to piss off said Arabs which will result in more U.S. troop deaths.

Sharon needs to STFU!

[adriennui]

54. it doesn't take much to piss off the arabs

can you name a time in recent history when they haven't been pissed off? the arabs sided with hitler in WW2. now what is the reason for that...hmm, let's take a guess.

i have no respect for the way arab institutions are run. the palestinian problem is purely an excuse to justify their hatred of everything western.

what will be when israel ceases to exist?

[lumpy]

66. The Arabs sided with Hitler in ww2

http://members.tripod.com/~marcin_w/index-2.html#IRAQ

This is an involved history lesson. Such an blanket statement is not wholey the truth. Not so strange you should lump all Arab nations together in the WW2 conflict. Better not to make blanket statements while not telling all the story or half truths.
Go here if you want to read the story of parcipitation of Arab states in the WW2 conflict.

[lumpy]

67. Maybe many Arab nations are 'pissed off'

and have very little respect for western nations because they have been the focus of western intervention and invasion throughout the millenia.
Too bad you have no respect for the way Arab institutions are run. Maybe many westerners and I understand some Israelis don't have respect for the way Israel is being run. Respect has to be earned, even Israel has to earn that. Israel is losing respect from many westerners because of their aggressive policies.

[mountainvue]

44. Best wishes!

Sounds like they're sending a greeting card.

[Mari333]

49. The Armageddon Lobby.

http://www.againstbombing.com/ArmageddonUpdates.htm

[lumpy]

51. Thanks for posting this site, Mari333

It is disgusting that those psuedo-religious zealots are even members of the US Congress. Sick that they promote and support the apocalypsic religious dogma that has become so popular with the neoChristian right. This sort of fatalism could well contribute to the fracturing of the US. The irony is that Israel is being used this way for political expediency by Congressional members who have only their own personal interests at heart(like the buck?). Hard to believe that they give a rip what happens to the future of Israel as well as any of the Mideast.

[modaya]

50. So do the Other benefecieries

Like Hurlibourton, chevron and Sharon

[Jacobin]

58. And we wonder why...........

oh never mind.

It's just too fucking obvious even to say.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tinoire]

84. Self-deleted n/t