'If you are poor, you are doomed'

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-hosp11.html

Juan Nieto is the embodiment of the debate going on now in Springfield and in Washington over whether the poor and uninsured should get some kind of a break on hospital bills.

Nieto can't work due to severe back pain. His wife is disabled from a stroke, and four of their five children are mentally retarded or developmentally disabled. The family lives just above the poverty line on Nieto's $2,334 monthly Social Security check.

Last September, Nieto's daughter, Natasha, went to the emergency department at Our Lady of the Resurrection Medical Center on West Addison Street suffering from pain that turned out to be gallstones. Doctors did a CT scan and other tests, gave Natasha IV pain medication and kept her overnight.

The total bill for the overnight stay: $10,495.43.

more

[Dogmudgeon]

1. Been there, done that

Colonoscopy, 2001: insurance declined it AFTER approving it; $8500 -- I wonder if Katie Couric got it up the a** this way

Tympanoplasty, 2000: insurance declined several supportive procedures it AFTER approving them; unpaid portion, $4,250 (out of $21,000)

Audiometry and CT scan after a car accent with concussion, 1996: insurance declined it AFTER approving it; $2,500

Treatment for Lyme Disease, unpaid portion, after approval, 1998: $2,000 (they decided it was "Junk Science™" and rejected it)

Here's one from Mom:

Cost of medication for treatment of tuberculosis, mandated by the Health Department of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, from an incorrect diagnosis: $550 (approximate). Good thing my Mother has an insurance card for meds, which cut the cost to $45.

And here's one from a girlfriend of mine:

In-patient emergency surgery and treatment for Mickel's Diverticulosis, 1994; not insured: $15,000. And every penny had to be paid back before she and her new husband could buy a house in 2002.

This will become the universal practice in a few years. So much for Big Gummint being so much worse than those altruistic insurance companies.

--bkl
Your Money And/Or Your Life!

[The Zanti Regent]

19. ...but the Republicans say the CHURCHES will help the needy

Yeah, sure.

Mom was crippled in an automobile accident in 1975 and she spent 20 years in a nursing home before she died. She NEVER worked so there was NO SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY PAYMENTS for her and Dad's income as a construction worker was too much for her to get SSI or Medicaid. Instead of raising a family, I had to borrow on credit cards to help dad out, Now, I only owe about 8,000 (down from 35,000) No family, no house no kids no car for me. And the churches? Mom and Dad went to church for years and what did they get when they pleaded for help? NOT ONE FUCKING NICKEL! Instead we hear the bullshit that God helps those who help themselves and the Preacher kept telling Dad that he didn't pray enough.

Dad committed suicide because he couldn't take anymore.

Tomorrow, Easter Monday, the sheriff is auctioning off Dad's house to the creditors. Some way to celebrate Easter Monday.

[Dogmudgeon]

20. Didn't the Roman guardsmen gamble for Jesus' clothes?

Maybe a word about it into the Sheriff's ear about that part of the Bible would help.

As for the "Preacher", I'd be happy to help you design some inspiration tracts about the hypocrisy of God's self-appointed apostles.

My own ambitions to raise a family have been ruined, but I didn't lose my parents in the process. I wish you the best.

--bkl

[PassingFair]

23. Oh, Zanti, I'm so sorry...

You must channel your anger and grief to fight those who would have this be the norm. Two worthy organizations: Democracy for America; and Freedom from Religion Foundation. Check them out. I have met and/or communicated with many sane and like-minded people in each organization. They are working for sanity and freedom and social justice for all.
So sorry about your Dad.
You have done an admirable job with the debts and reality tells me that there is still a future for you. Don't let the bastards get you down!

[The Zanti Regent]

34. It's hard to do that.

I forgot the part where once upon a time i had an IRA of $47,000.

Then, mother needed brain surgery to relieve seizuers she had; Dad's insurance company said no so guess who broke his IRA, paid the tax penalty and paid the fucking surgeon?

I am so fucking tired of those who oppose "Socialized Medicine" saying Government bureaucrats would ration care. To them I say, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK UNELECTED INSURANCE COMPANY BEAN COUNTERS ARE DOING NOW????

FUCK THE INSURANCE COMAPNIES; THEY'RE NOTHING BUT PIMPS AND WHORES!

Well what did the Preacher say? Once again he badmouthed me for hoarding money and not paying my fair share. I asked the asshole why he didn't scream at my three sisters the same way and he went into his shtick that they had families to raise. He kept on badmouthing me, I told him to take the ASSemblies of God and stick it up his f'n ass.

My family got angry because I refuse to sniff the ASS of GAWD. Every day I see more lies and deceit by preachers and Christians and I want NOTHING to do with these assholes. Every day only further confirms why I am proud to be an atheist. My nephew was brainwashed by these assholes and he was so proud to go and fight in Iraq. Now he lies in Walter Reed a bullet severed his spinal cord and he is a quadraplegic. and What does his Mother do, why she is so proud to have had a son wounded for freedom and she flaunts it at church.

My nephew tells me that he should have listened to me before. He regrets voting for Bush but he IS voting for Kerry, that is if he can find someone who will mark his ballot who isn't brainwashed by the Ass of G!

[alittlelark]

28. That is a horrifying story

I am so very sorry. I have never been in a situation even remotely resembling the one you are in. I can only imagine, but I must admit that I am disturbed even imagining it.;(

[happyslug]

42. What I would have advised your Father to do.

First, once his wife went into the nursing home, to divorce her, for once he had divorce her he had no legal obligation to support her AND SHE WOULD HAVE BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR SSI AND MEDICARE. As long as your father remained married to her, his Income counted, but did NOT count once he had divorce her.

Your Father would have also had to divide the marital assets with her, and her share would have been gone within one to two years, but he would have been able to keep his house. Her part of the Marital assets would have been used by the Nursing home, but once it was gone it is ILLEGAL for the Nursing home to remove someone UNLESS there is a place for her to go. Once her assets would have been used up, the Nursing home would have applied for Medicaid assistance for her (Medicare only pays for three days of hospitalization, after three days the patient has to pay for it until she has no more assets than Medicaid pays for the long term care). This is what SHOULD HAVE been done in regards to your mother, it is done all the time. The system is set up for it, in fact the system prefers the above for collection from individuals is difficult compared to Medicaid (But the Federal Government demand that ALL Assets be used up before one can go on Medicaid).

People do this all the time, I have attended Continuing Legal Education (CLE) classes where it was shown HOW TO DO THIS. SSI and Medicaid were written to use up any resource of a patient before the Government would pay (and the Federal Government will punish any hospital or Nursing Home that does NOT go after all of the assets of one of their long term patients who ends up on Medicaid). The above is one way to use up HER assets while preserving HIS assets. Remember almost all long term nursing home residents end up on Medicaid sooner or latter, in any long term plan you want to minimize how much the Home can get from you AND speed up the process to get on Medicaid.

I wish I could have told you and your father this 20 years ago but I did not know of your situation. I am writing this to you in this thread so that if anyone else is in the same situation they can plan to maximize assets to Medicare, Medicaid and SSI.

Under the Rules for Long Term Nursing care today, you have to be hard nosed (For the Government is). I know it is difficult for you are dealing with someone you love, but the Government is counting on that love to minimize its payments. You have to adopt a cold attitude, "I am NOT paying" and continue to see the resident in the Nursing home. It sounds harsh (and it is) but it is the language the Nursing home has to hear before it can apply to the Government to put a resident on Medicaid.

I hate this rule as much as the next person, but it is the rule at the present time and you have to follow it for NO ONE CAN AFFORD LONG TERM NURSING HOME CARE so everyone in Long Term Nursing Home Care ends up on Medicaid sooner or later.

[central scrutinizer]

38. This is "inheritance tax" that the Republican's won't talk about

They prattle on about the "death tax" and want it eliminated so that the scions of the wealthy can live in luxury. But if you are middle class or lower and don't have adequate health insurance, eventually some hospital will take everything you own to settle the unpaid portion of your bill. So the wealthy will have to pay a 0% inheritance tax and most of us will have to pay a 100% inheritance tax.

[PaDUer]

39. Been there too...

my hospital bill for a month stay, not including drs or tests, was OVER $100,000.00..I don't even want to start about my meds because it's astronomical. There's been months that I've gone without my meds, and at this present time, I still don't have 1/2 of what I'm supposed to be taking because I don't have the money to get them, and there's nothing i can do about it either.

Has there been an increase of bank robberies and convenient store robberies in your area as has been here? People are desperate, and what's interesting about some, is that the authorities don't have a clue as to where these people are..

[bitchkitty]

2. I hear you -

In 2000, I had cancer. Now, in 2004, the chemo I had hurt my kidneys and they are getting worse and worse. I called the same clinic where I got chemo, and they won't even see me if I don't have insurance. The only way I can get care is if I go to the emergency room when it gets really bad.

[cornfedyank]

3. i like single payer health care

it will allow a lot of administration costs to be redirected into real health care. but i do not see how it can happen. all those jobs jobs jobs. all those premiums. i fear that greed will win over compassion. but it's easter so i have hope. we have to change the congress as well as the commander in chief.

wage peace------ it's cheaper.

[sallyseven]

4. And they want to take away malpractice

relief for people who are hurt by the decisions bean counters make.

[Broadslidin]

5. Nurturing a Malignant Nationalistic Narcissistic Feudal Society.

The natural evolutionary end game for U.S. capitalism
is obviously, a new and improved 21st Century style fascism.
A highly institutionalized and rigidly closed class system.

As our Libidinous Pontifex Maximus eats grapes while securely ensconced
within his Crawford Compound,
shouldn't the Klaxon Horns be screaming: "Red Alert"!

[cornfedyank]

6. the one in my head is sounding loudly but.....

it is a little embarrassing asking people to put their ear next to mine. screw embarrassment... WAKE UP VOTE.

[xchrom]

14. you'd think so, wouldn't you?

[leQ]

7. i can't remember if 60 minutes or some other show did an expose

but it definitely made clear, insured are billed less than half of what the uninsured are billed. it was sickening (no pun intended)

[ima_sinnic]

8. I know someone who has twice been denied emergency treatment for

symptoms that appeared to be stroke or heart attack because he owes the hospital money for the first occurrence. When he drops down dead should we say, too bad, you just shouldn't have been so poor?

[sam sarrha]

26. if he is mexican he can get FREE hospital emergancy room treatment

.. i know, I pay the taxes for it.. 1/2 of the amount of my Morgage in property taxes. which is 20 times the average anual income of half the population of the world.

our hospitals can not turn away any mexican for care.. and many mexican women who have had no prenatal care because of the curruption in mexico.. cross the border in labor and arive on the steps of our hospitals in a tramatic crisus.. that can end up costing millions.. because there is not money for clinics because of the political intervention of insurance companies to keep the big money flowing at the cost of suffering to others. but i have been turned away in the past.. because i had a broken arm and no money when i was homeless about 7 years ago.

[yardwork]

31. Don't believe that. That's freeper-talk.

Every hospital in the country is required to provide emergency care to ANYONE who presents at their emergency room. If they are turning you away, you can bet they are turning away illegal aliens, immigrants with papers, people with HIV, and anybody else they don't want.

The next time you have an emergency, insist that the hospital care for you. They are required to do so by federal law.

[bleedingheart]

9. In 1998 my daughters NeoNatal bill was $90,000

when she was born I didn't have to pay anything due to the insurance my company was offering at the time. Today under the same company I would have to pay $9,000.

I pay $5000 a year out of pocket and I pay even more for all the extras...I have a herniated disc that my need surgery in a few years...it will probably cost me a great deal out of pocket....even with insurance.

However Mr. Cheney...a multi-millionaire gets free coverage courtesy of taxpayers.

[cryofan]

10. How long are we going to put up with this shit, people? Europeans do not..

....have to put up with this kind of crap. And to think that 50 years ago they were crawling amongst the ruins of their cities. And now they laugh at the way we have let our country go 3rd world....

[bleedingheart]

12. Your right...my illiterate immigrant grandfather was smarter

than people today...he may have not been able to read english but he knew enough to fight for a union and better pay and he was fearless ...he stood up to corporatism...

he lived in a tent with his family for almost a year...
he had men shoot at him...
he was blackballed from some mines....

but in the end he and the other men and women lived to see a better day.

Today I see all the hard work of those people being cast aside....we are going backwards in time..

[0007]

15. I've seen it myself, how rotten the corporations were to the Unions

Unions are good for everything except the greedy with all their hatred for the folks that want a decent life.

Thanks for sharing your story.

[Malva Zebrina]

17. we will have to put up with it as long as corporations run our lives

and are allowed to do so and even encouraged to do so by our elected leaders.

Just put us old folk out on the ice. Some of us cannot afford that shit. I am proud to say, that I have become a dedicated Epicurean-and this may be my true religion although I am an atheist-I will take my measly amount of money and spend it gloriously on enjoying myself for the remaining years of my life, unabashedly, after a lifetime spent working hard and serving others who were ill.

[Atlanticist]

24. Man these stories are unbelievable!!!

I read somewhere that US GDP spent on healthcare at over 7% was the highest in the world and it still can't look after the neediest in society? I think Dick Cheney should set up a taskforce to look at it. I'm sure he could wheel in a few HMO buddies to advise him.

[BiggJawn]

11. My teeth hurt.

Sure, we just got dental "insurance" this year, but it has a $1000 Annual MAXIMUM...
Have to decide which of the 4 teeth that need crowns gets fixed in which order. Anybody know a denist who can crown a tooth for $250?

Me neither.

And when I retire, I get to keep my group plan for $800 a month...

[davekriss]

13. I have the whopper of them all...

I have an adopted daughter with bipolar disorder/adhd. Right after 9-11 she had a complete meltdown and was first hospitalized in a psychatric wing of a major hospital at a daily cost of $1550 per day. She then moved to an acute care unit of a specialized hospital and stayed there for another 14 months at a daily cost of about $1200. The total bill came to around $800,000. Luckily the title 19 benefits in the state we lived in then were generous (as our commercial insurance was useless), but we did lose a house and our retirement savings along the way.

We weren't poor; we thought we we're "covered". It was an object lesson on the inadequacies of our health care distribution systems. Something must be done.

[Malva Zebrina]

18. I am sorry for your plight

:cry:

[sam sarrha]

16. actually i work full time in constant pain from bad back and make 1/2

what he gets... When i get bent over with spasms.. and they see that i have a bad back.. they fire me. I cant go to a doctor because the last time i went to a doctor for my back i didn't work for 8 years..

I had a friend that was going to hire me call me up and said that Workman's Comp people called him up and said they had no problem with him hiring me, but if he did they would cancel all the other 24 policies for his other employees and "reschedule" the fees... he said, "those guys play hard ball"

the only time i went to a doctor for my back was for a simple sprain, and after that i worked maybe 3 days to a week before being layed off, twice for 90 days.. I was homeless, i collected cans ate out of dumpsters.. some grocery stores have compassionate employees that put food behind the stores instead of in the dumpster. I joined Vista twice for 2 years each and got a $360 month stipend 2 years each.

Being disabled in the USA is a real bitch...

[Paranoid_Portlander]

21. My aunt had $300,000. It's not enough.

The nursing home and the pharmacy bills will eat that up in about 3 or 4 years.

[jus_the_facts]

22. I recall votin' for Clinton because he said he'd do something....

....then the pukes took over the Congress and we got privatized healthcare instead...which has ruined what should be the best most technically advanced healthcare on the planet into one that kills 90,000 people a year by *mistake*....it'll be a MIRACLE if Kerry can do anything either.

[sam sarrha]

27. he tried but the legislature said untill something is done about tabaco

alcohol.. universal health care would be unmanageable due to the cost. and it would be subdizing the tabbaco companies...

[juajen]

25. I had a major heart attack

during a stent procedure; was hospitalized for 6 days; the total bill was 67,000. Though I had insurance and should have been covered, they claimed it was a preexisting condition, though it wasn't; they eventually paid 4,000 of this bill. Hospital sued; we couldn't afford a lawyer; they got a lien on our house; we had to file ch. 13. My husband is covered by medicare, but I fall through the crack and will not be covered for three more years. Now I have no insurance, a heart condition and chron's disease. This system is sick, sick, sick. What Kerry's plan is, I'm not sure; just that it isn't like Kucinich's. What a shame that nobody listened to Hillary Clinton when she tried to do something about this. Dumb and dumber.

[opihimoimoi]

29. The Poor is picked on because they hardly vote, that is V O T E

The Young and Poor are Picked on by the Richer Older. The Young/Poor got no choice but vote for people who promise LONG TERM in their decision making choices. This is planning for the coming Winter in their lives. They gatta vote for themselves in the Long Term. Trying to get the "Comfortable Winter" as opposed to the "Bitter Cold Winter". Why settle for less?

The Poor is Doomed only if they continue to vote/no vote without forethought.

[bleedingheart]

32. You are correct Opihimoimoi

the poor don't vote
the young don't vote
...they get screwed...

voting does make a difference.

[NuttyFluffers]

43. mandatory voting, the only sane choice.

but it'll never happen... *sigh*

/packs bags and starts price shopping for a country with a better health care

[yardwork]

30. The wealthy corporations blocked the Clinton plans

and then immediately started spreading the disinformation that all the health care problems are BECAUSE of Clinton's plans!

My own father thought that the whole health care mess was a result of the Clinton plan. I said, "No, Dad. The Clinton plan was blocked. This is the result of inaction."

I don't know if he believed me or not. The media are owned and sponsored by the same huge corporations that make so much money from this existing system.

It is very difficult to get the truth out when the media is bought and paid for by the corporations.

[havocmom]

33. Yeah, remember all those TV ads warning that a national health plan

would mean rationing health care? I kept screaming that insurance companies want 'rationed health care' but they will do the rationing! Everybody called me Cassandra then. They are now all screaming that they can't get the health care they need, even though they are comfortable and have 'good insurance'.

The insurance companies are the only ones with 'good insurance', a bought and paid for US Congress to give them what they want and remove liabilities for them.

edit: typo

[The Animator]

35. Gather round children and let me tell you a story...

I have a friend who has researched ancient chinese culture, and he relayed somthing to me that he learned about the way they practiced medicine there in those times.

Back then a person would hire a doctor, and pay that doctor an agreed upon, flat rate once a month for the rest of his life. However, if that patient became sick, he would stop paying the doctor, until he got better. The doctor, not wanting to lose that source of income, would nurse the patient back to health as soon as possible. The doctor would also frequently recomend ways for the patient to remain in good health. This arrangement was mutually beneficial to both doctor, and patient.

Could a system like that work today? It would seem to me that a great deal of the health care problems that we are dealing with today, could be resolved by a re-examination of the core driving forces in the system itself.

Today Doctors and Pharmacudical companies make money off of people who are sick. There is no financial motivation to restore these people to full health. Drug companies make more money by treating diseases than they do by curing them. Selling an expensive bottle of pills that you have to refill each month is better for a company than selling an expensive bottle of pills that you only have to by once, and never have to buy again. If it became more profitable to keep patients in perfect health, the primary motivation of the system would change. More money would be poured into research for real, permanent cures.

If every doctor and drug company in the United States lost money during next year's flu season. Do think there would be a flu season the year after that?

[Eye and Monkey]

37. "he would stop paying the doctor, until he got better" - nice perspective

The medical system would profit from keeping people healthy rather than when people are ill.

Actually, I think the HMOs originally used the basics of this wellness concept when they were first growing really large and increasing market share. Of course, there's a bit of problem with the way HMOs define what constitutes getting one healthy.

Some brave souls could really do the right thing and secure a generous income if they would try this with more fairness and less greed.

[nolabels]

40. As a mechanic that repairs things, I think it would be fair

Provided the patient lived up to their end of the bargain. Seems to me the medical establishment has got the the whole thing backward

[walmartsucks]

36. $10,000 a night?

That'll almost get you into one of shrub's fundraisers

[scarface2004]

41. if you are uninsured...you are fucked

even worse