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Bosonic (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 06:49 AM Original message |
Man carrying machine gun opens fire at Dutch shopping mall, 5 reported dead |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 07:05 AM Response to Original message |
1. Only a couple of days after a man killed 20 kids in Rio, also.The sickness has spread quickly. |
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razorman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 07:17 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Unfortunately, I don't believe it to be a sickness that is spreading. |
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rfranklin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 08:56 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Yes, I remember that case of the hippos who sprayed the crocs with Uzis... |
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Kolesar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:39 AM Response to Reply #5 |
10. I was trying to think of a response to #2 |
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greiner3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 08:57 AM Response to Reply #2 |
6. Why just imagine; |
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eqfan592 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:38 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. Wow, way to miss the boat on the above posters point... |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:39 AM Response to Reply #6 |
11. 21 kids murdered and 90 hurt by knives in mass school attacks |
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blondeatlast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:01 AM Response to Reply #11 |
15. Oh, really? what part of "uncoordinated" missed you? |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:07 AM Response to Reply #15 |
17. 9 killed in one incident, 8 in another |
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donquijoterocket (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:15 AM Response to Reply #17 |
20. true enough but |
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Upton (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:10 AM Response to Reply #6 |
18. Home invasion by man wielding a chainsaw.. |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:47 AM Response to Reply #6 |
45. The only alternative to a gun is a knife or bat? |
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octothorpe (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:32 PM Response to Reply #45 |
78. or someone driving a vehicle through a busy mall or a school yard. |
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movonne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:47 AM Response to Reply #2 |
13. There is a sickness going around the world...we see too much |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 04:55 PM Response to Reply #13 |
100. Those things have always existed. |
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Darth_Kitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:03 AM Response to Reply #2 |
16. +1 |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 08:35 AM Response to Reply #1 |
3. Spreading from where? nt |
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gejohnston (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 08:35 AM Response to Reply #1 |
4. no |
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Posteritatis (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:10 AM Response to Reply #1 |
7. A lot of you grew up without ubiquitous and easy access to news |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:17 AM Response to Reply #1 |
8. They were happening - you just never heard about them |
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right2bfree (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:04 PM Response to Reply #1 |
74. More guns=More gun deaths. Not rocket science. Less guns=less crimes. |
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octothorpe (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:41 PM Response to Reply #74 |
79. People don't commit crimes because they have guns. |
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right2bfree (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 04:31 PM Response to Reply #79 |
98. People in Europe have no real problems with not having guns everywhere. Fact! |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:51 PM Response to Reply #74 |
81. Wrong - In America murder is at historic lows and still declining |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 02:12 PM Response to Reply #74 |
84. That was implicit. Of course I meant this didn't happen when every half-wit wasn't armed. |
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RSillsbee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 02:24 PM Response to Reply #74 |
85. Then why is gun ownership at an all time high |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 05:00 AM Response to Reply #85 |
96. Because more people belonged to the middle class |
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right2bfree (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 04:30 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Exactly!!! |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 04:56 PM Response to Reply #74 |
101. Cite to evidence, if you please... n/t |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 04:52 PM Response to Reply #1 |
99. Are you trying to say that things like this never happened in the past? |
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Turbineguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 09:45 AM Response to Original message |
12. It's now 6 including the shooter |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:00 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. Listening to the Dutch reports, |
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hack89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:12 AM Response to Reply #14 |
19. If he had an automatic what he did is illegal in America as well as the Netherlands |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:27 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Not sure if it was an automatic. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:41 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. The mayor says it was an automatic weapon |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:54 AM Response to Reply #24 |
26. Perhaps there really were two shooters, then. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:02 AM Response to Reply #26 |
30. The man had his own handgun with which he killed himself, police said. |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:11 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. are handguns automatic, then? |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:18 AM Response to Reply #32 |
34. As far as I know, the shooter had an automatic gun with which he shot indiscriminately at people... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:06 PM Response to Reply #34 |
75. Deleted message |
guruoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:14 PM Response to Reply #32 |
59. They can be... |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:56 AM Response to Reply #14 |
28. Unfortunately, lots of people on the news are referring to this as "American practices". |
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Dappleganger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 02:09 PM Response to Reply #28 |
83. Evil is evil... |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 02:57 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. Oh, I agree. It's just used as an expression by people to indicate we're not used to this kind of .. |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:50 AM Response to Reply #14 |
47. " Everybody is shocked, no-one is calling for heavier punishment or more guns. " |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. I think everyone is still waiting for all facts to become known |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:02 PM Response to Reply #50 |
53. If they're waiting for the facts to come out |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:07 PM Response to Reply #47 |
55. Well, there *is* a strong outcry from the public for tougher punishments and more restrictive laws.. |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:12 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. Currently the Dutch have stronger laws against such things |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:23 PM Response to Reply #58 |
62. I meant there's an outcry for more severe punishments and less restrictions on the police... |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:25 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. So prior to this they desired to move towards what we have |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:28 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. Deleted message |
Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:33 PM Response to Reply #63 |
68. This is a baseless twisting of his words. Stop it. |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:43 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. Not at all |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 04:58 PM Response to Reply #14 |
102. Why would it have been a bad thing for this lunatic to have been stopped..... |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 06:52 AM Response to Reply #102 |
107. First of all: |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 08:52 AM Response to Reply #107 |
109. Point by point: |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 12:36 PM Response to Reply #109 |
111. This is spin, not response. n/t |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 10:19 PM Response to Reply #111 |
112. How so? |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:25 AM Response to Reply #12 |
21. Make that 26 wounded... n/t |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:11 PM Response to Reply #21 |
77. Correction: 16 wounded |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:33 AM Response to Original message |
23. Yet one more update: |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:53 AM Response to Reply #23 |
25. Absolute nonsense. The police are almost 100% sure the shooter acted alone. |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:56 AM Response to Reply #25 |
27. source? |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 10:57 AM Response to Reply #27 |
29. Like I just said: Dutch tv news & press conference by mayor & police. |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:10 AM Response to Reply #29 |
31. And yet other malls have been evacuated. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:16 AM Response to Reply #31 |
33. That struck reporters as strange, as well. Mayor said that was decided after they already knew... |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:19 AM Response to Reply #33 |
35. Combine that with the conflicting reports on |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:28 AM Response to Reply #35 |
38. Yep, but that's bound to happen when you have so many witnesses. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:21 AM Response to Reply #31 |
36. Update: mayor just said police found a note written by the shooter in his car, which led them to ... |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:24 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. Known to the police? |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:29 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. There are rumors the shooter has had drugs-related problems, but this is unconfirmed. |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:33 AM Response to Reply #39 |
40. That would explain the car |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 02:25 PM Response to Reply #36 |
86. Thanks for the update, DutchLiberal. n/t |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 02:59 PM Response to Reply #86 |
88. NEW UPDATE: the note said there are explosives in three other shopping malls... |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 03:08 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. Really! This is getting even crazier. Hope there won't be more injuries. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 03:10 PM Response to Reply #90 |
91. People living in flats surrounding the malls have been evacuated as long as searching continues... |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:38 AM Response to Original message |
41. Death toll going up: |
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Duer 157099 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:44 AM Response to Original message |
42. 6 killed, 11 wounded in Dutch mall shooting |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:46 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. This is the 2nd incident we've heard of in as many days that "only happen in America" |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:48 AM Response to Reply #43 |
46. One word: Hollywood |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:52 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. Hollywood wants to make money |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:56 AM Response to Reply #48 |
49. For some reason, violence is assumed |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:01 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. Well that and sex |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:05 PM Response to Reply #48 |
54. Hollywood's movie are more popular; they're not better. |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:11 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. Quality of movies is an objective statement |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:21 PM Response to Reply #57 |
61. You're not better at producing movies; you're better at selling them. |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:27 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. Wow, ok, you're not getting this |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:32 PM Response to Reply #64 |
67. Deleted sub-thread |
octothorpe (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:49 PM Response to Reply #54 |
80. Well, there is far more output from Hollywood. |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 05:04 PM Response to Reply #46 |
103. Can you cite to a study that can link violence in media.... |
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melm00se (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 04:24 AM Response to Reply #46 |
105. let's use some numbers |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 06:43 AM Response to Reply #105 |
106. Now please also note |
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melm00se (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 07:15 AM Response to Reply #106 |
108. OMG |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-11-11 12:33 PM Response to Reply #108 |
110. The question is how functional |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:02 PM Response to Reply #43 |
52. The number of shooting sprees in the US is far higher than in European countries... |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:09 PM Response to Reply #52 |
56. I suggest you educate yourself if you believe this is an American phenomenon |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:20 PM Response to Reply #56 |
60. Where does that chart come from? It's not on Wikipedia page; it doesn't list statistics per country, |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:31 PM Response to Reply #60 |
66. The source is the far righwing, pro-gun, jingoisticly pro-American |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:35 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. Deleted message |
Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 11:46 AM Response to Reply #42 |
44. already at seven tragic deaths. see above. n/t |
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SoapBox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:43 PM Response to Original message |
71. And the NRA will keep on pushing guns to all the crazies... |
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WatsonT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 12:48 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. The NRA in the Netherlands is a powerful force indeed. |
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PavePusher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 05:07 PM Response to Reply #72 |
104. You forgot the sarcasm logo. Some people here need that pointed out to them.... n/t |
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right2bfree (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:07 PM Response to Reply #71 |
76. Sadly, you are correct. nt |
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right2bfree (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:02 PM Response to Original message |
73. Too bad a "law-abiding" gun owner wasnt there to stop this carnage!! NOT! |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 01:55 PM Response to Original message |
82. The guy had a previous gun-related incident. |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 03:04 PM Response to Original message |
89. UPDATE: shooter's name is Tristan van der V.; 24 years old; left letter at mother's home... |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 03:13 PM Response to Reply #89 |
92. UPDATE: Dutch public tv names shooter as 'Tristan van der Vlis'. |
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JI7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 03:41 PM Response to Reply #89 |
93. what does it take to get a license to get those guns there ? |
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DutchLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-09-11 04:17 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. I honestly don't know. I do know gun laws are very strict in The Netherlands. |
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Betty Karlson (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-10-11 04:57 AM Response to Reply #94 |
95. Police is still investigating the gun permits |
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