Obama faces trouble with $4 gasoline

[UpInArms]

Source: Christian Science Monitor

Presidential campaigns are all about numbers – dollars raised, voters registered, poll results. In the early days of his reelection bid, President Obama is focusing on one number: $4 per gallon gasoline.

It’s a major irritant to most Americans, one that could have significant impact on household economies. And, according to a variety of surveys, Democrats and Obama bear most of the responsibility if not the blame.

That may not be fair, but it’s a fact Obama has to deal with – especially at a time when the latest New York Times/CBS News poll shows 70 percent believing the country is headed in the wrong direction and 57 percent don’t like the way he’s handling the economy.

National Journal’s poll of political insiders shows a great majority – including 75 percent of Democratic insiders – predicting that the Democratic Party will be “hurt more by rising gas prices.”

At the same time, a new McClatchy-Marist Poll shows an opening for Obama. While 11 percent blame Obama and Democrats (7 percent cite congressional Republicans), 36 percent say it’s volatility in the Middle East, and 34 percent say US oil companies are the culprits behind record prices at the pump.

Read more: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0423/Obama-faces-trouble-with-4-gasoline

[Turbineguy]

1. That seems reasonable

after all, Bush had problems with $5 gas.

[zbdent]

true ... but

the "liberally-biased media" at the time went all out of its way to make sure that the masses were aware that there were more forces in play than a bunch of oil executives (and a VP who called a meeting of energy people and never released who met, in Feb 2001, to plot the occupation of Iraq's oil fields) in the White House ...

Now, with Faux leading the "information" charge ... do you TRULY think that Obama would get such softball treatment?

[pasto76]

15. No he didnt

the blame was put on "liberals" who, through the EPA, had blocked refineries being built.

[Dave From Canada]

31. Nope, the blame was put on Bush, getting money for his supposid oil buddies.

[xchrom]

2. Recommend

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freshwest]

4. Pffft! Paid over $5 for two years under Shrub. Where was the outrage then? Oh, right, blinders.

[Zax2me]

10. Where do you live?!

Over 5 dollars per gallon - for over two years?
Where?

[freshwest]

11. Pac NW

[Zax2me]

12. Wow, the national avg never got over 4.20 ouch!

You guys got hosed pardon the pun.
and for two years, painful to the wallet.

[former9thward]

19. Your memory is not very good.

In the NW it went above $4.00 for a 12 week period to a high of 4.37 one week. It then went back below $4.00 and never came back http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_history.html

[freshwest]

47. Wanna check my receipts? I paid between $4.98 and $5.04. I had to budget for it.

People in my area got used to it and changed their ways. The large vehicles were selling for almost nothing for a year, because of it and people bought electric bikes, scooters, Smart Cars, and the city began a program of car sharing without car ownership.

There's much more walking and riding bikes, all the buses have bike racks. When I drive, I have to navigate around a wide variety of human conveyances, motorized scooters and wheelchairs, people on bikes, walking with wheeled walkers, bikes in my path, etc. So you have to really pay attention, and also, they all have the right of way and you better believe they take it. If you stop at a red light and crowd a crosswalk, they'll pound your hood. You'd better be ready to stop, period, because people are erratic.

My building and a number of places of work others offer electrical outlets to charge up electrical cars and the parking garage is full of bike racks, not for the kids, really. Adults are riding bicycles, some people have given up their vehicles altogether. One place I know that provides rides for the residents sometimes has to shuffle to find a worker that actually has a driver's license. People are living without the great car culture that I grew up in.

We voted for more funding for mass transit and now our state is building charging stations for electric cars for long-distances. And yeah, we're those people who drive Prii. I'm not getting to enjoy all of that and my vehicle is one of those that in comparison uses a lot more gas, but friends own them and they're common in my area. As far as fuel economy, I'm not able to do better with a more economical vehicle right now. I'm living on almost half the income I had when paying $5 but only gas up once every other month.

I didn't mean my comment to sound as if I was insensitive to those who live in red areas without all these adaptations to gas guzzling. Because I've been there, and it's a make or break.

But it's not Obama's fault, unless you can fault him for what I want to happen and for which there is no national will to make happen. It would be best to nationalize the oil industry. We've gone to war and the profits have been used and are being used to destroy our democratic process. Anyone who isn't going to vote for Obama based on gas prices, wasn't going to do it anyway.

EOD.

[indimuse]

18. i think your'e off a bit..

wasn't that long. but it still sucked...like $4.00 sucks! Speculation sucks! not doing anything about it sucks! ;)

[stockholmer]

32. It's just one big suck, like oil through a straw

:evilgrin:

[totodeinhere]

56. Oh there was plenty of outrage then. Let's be fair about this.

Shrub was routinely excoriated at DU over high gas prices.

[BOHICA12]

74. Don't believe his party or those they supported ...

..did too well in the 2008 elections. Maybe I'm wrong.

[demosincebirth]

5. Any time someone farts in the Middle East, the price of oil goes up

[Diclotican]

6. UpInArms

UpInArms

And it is STILL less than WE in Europe spend on petrol when we have to fill up our cars.. I have stoped looking at the "Prize" pr Liter for a long time when I are filling up the car.. I just fill it up, pay the prize and are happy that I dosen't had to pay more.. When US customers hit the prize we in europe have had to pay for the last 25 year, then you REALLY have to complain about expensive prizing... 4 dollar for 4.0 Liter, is still resonable, when many of us, pay the same ammout for eatch Liter of petrol...

But, for a country who have been spoiled for the last 50 year or so, with sheap petrol, waking up to the fact, that petrol IS expensive, and wil raise in prize as time goes by.... Yeah, the US president wil feel the hit when americans are souring as the prize goes up..

And yes, we do have a far better colletive transportnetwork in Europe then in most of US, But still, it exist a lot of places who are not connected to the colletive transport network, where you HAVE to have a car, and therfore have to buy your petrol...

Diclotican

[primavera]

14. Well said

Personally, I think gas prices should be substantially higher. Maybe that would persuade some of the tiny penis crowd to give up their Humvees in favor of some sensible vehicles for a change.

[former9thward]

21. Why is the anti-large Car crowd so obsessed

about penis size? Whatever inadequacy you have in that area won't be solved by posting about it on DU. See professional.

[stockholmer]

23. roflmaoo(ps, the anti petrol guzzler is valid,but the MILES driven by all in US is the real issue)

at times, whilst visiting the States, I began to wonder if walking anywhere other than from an auto-park to the store entrance had been outlawed

:hi:

[former9thward]

24. Americans in a general sense are very lazy.

I walk about 3/4 of a mile to my favorite pub and other customers are constantly amazed at that. I think it is quite refreshing both before and after.

[AndyTiedye]

91. I Used to Walk 3/4 Mile to the Store

but they closed down the store and replaced with more offices for financial types (who now have to drive for miles to get lunch).

Next nearest store is 7 miles away, and a 2000' climb home with the groceries. :(

[primavera]

28. It's an expression of charity

Since the alternative is that gas guzzlers' gluttony and willingness to excessively befoul our air reflect nothing more than a selfish lack of consideration for others, attributing their behavior to a need to compensate is a kindness. You're welcome.

[SammyWinstonJack]

68. LMAO!

:applause:

[wordpix]

89. having just driven on our E. Coast's I-95 today, all I can say is the whole system sucks

The US keeps building more and more lanes ---why the hell don't we have rapid rail zipping down some of them, leaving the cars in the dust? This whole system is a huge, horrible boondoggle that never ends in terms of maintenance, building more lanes, taking up more land and noise, pollution, destruction of wildlife habitat... but it keeps the Oil Oligarchy happy. :puke: :grr:

[Chris_Texas]

39. Hell yeah! And food too! Then fat lazy americas will eat less!!!

Also, we should make medicine really REALLY expensive so people don't get sick.

I like the way your mind works sir! I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[primavera]

44. Eating and driving a gas guzzler aren't quite analogous

One's optional, the other's not. But now that you mention it, as a percentage of their income, Americans pay the least for food - at 7% of income, on average- of any country on earth. The second cheapest country to eat is France, where people pay 14% of their income on food. In order to keep ourselves in cheap food, we do a lot of unethical things. Perhaps, if we had to pay closer to the true value of food, we'd be less willing to sit around on our asses and let the richest 10% of the population rob us of 90% of our nation's wealth.

[Diclotican]

59. primavera

primavera

WEL, at least in US, smaller cars could be one of the ways to make petrol little more afforable.. But US for the last 60 year have allways had a love affair with your big, gas guzling cars who I personaly would LOVE to have but can't.. Can't affoard one, and can't fill it up... Have for the most part have small cars, who is economical and good on the milage... But of course I have dreamed about having a big cars now and then;).... But as they say, dreams is free, to have a big car is expensive...

When I was a little kid, preschool- to 3 grade we had some US cars who was rather big muscle cars compared to the standard of the day.. I still love the sound, the vibrations, and the power of a V8 engine... But I aslo know I would posible never affoard a car like that, so I envoy they who have the cars.. And is driving my Nissan Primera instead.. Nothing compared to a V8, with pleanty of power.. A Old Police car, so it is somewhat more angry than the regular Primera;)And it still just have .8 on the milage

Diclotican

[primavera]

65. Certainly, but dreams can change if need dictates

I'm sure that throughout history many people used to dream of having their very own personal slave, and sure, who wouldn't like to have someone to do their work for them? But that doesn't mean that, in this day and age, one has a right to complain that one doesn't get to achieve that particular dream. When I was a kid, I too thought that my grandparents' silver Monte Carlo was the coolest thing on wheels. I was five years old. Now, I'm an adult and recognize that I have no need for such a vehicle, so I instead drive a Prius that gets 50 mpg, and that only when I can't ride my scooter that gets 100 mpg.

I don't think there's any doubt that movement away from big gas guzzlers would have a positive impact on the US. Motor vehicles are the single largest consumer of fossil fuels in the US, they are also the single greatest contributor to poor air quality, which in turn is linked to high rates of respiratory disease. How could reducing fuel consumption and emissions be anything but beneficial? Oh, I don't imagine that it alone would solve all of our energy problems, it's just a piece of the puzzle, but it couldn't hurt and it could help a lot. The US consumes, on a per capita basis, on average three times as much energy as other developed nations, with the exception of the oil producing nations. There's no reason why we can't get by on a whole lot less energy than we presently consume. Admitted, the US is more spread out, we have nurtured the idea that everyone ought to be able to own a big house with a lot of land, to which end we have created all of these suburban developments that now require people to commute long distances to their jobs. That was kind of an unfortunate choice on our part, as it has produced undesirable urban sprawl and made us into a driving culture that relies more heavily upon cars than we might otherwise have been. That is going to be tough to change, although I think it would be worth changing if we could. But there's no reason why we can't at least do that driving in vehicles that produce lower emissions and consume less fuel. True, some people do live in genuinely rural areas and genuinely need vehicles capable of navigating diverse terrain. But most people who drive gas guzzlers don't have a bona fide need for them; they just like indulging their dreams of big muscular cars that make loud vrooming noises. Well, that's nice and, if gas were cheap and abundant and renewable and we didn't have problems with their emissions, then great, more power to you, indulge away. But that's not the real world we live in. In the real world, we're facing serious economic and environmental problems as a consequence of our dependence upon a dwindling resource. Under the circumstances, that whole big car thing is a dream we need to wake up from. It's time to smell the coffee, grow up, and start acting like adults.

[Diclotican]

82. primavera

Primavera

Absolutely in agreement with you here for the most part.. I can understand that a five year old boy/girl was amazed about that Monte Carlo.. That was and are still a Cool car to see.. But I can't affoard one.. But its not against laws to dream about it;).. I still rembember the one car we had home.. a Dogde, with the coolest V8 engine I have ever been near... It was fast, it sound extremely nice.. But it was NOT sheap to opperate.... And then the prize of the petrol was far lower than today... But the car was nice, and big, and could out perform everyone else.. Even the BMW and the AUDI of the days (wel, even my car can outperform a BMW today, as It is a old Police car with a rather "nasty" 4 cylinder engine... Really cool car, even tho it for the moment are staying put, thanks to some need for repairs.. Oh wel, Im soon readly to get it to the repair shop for some needed repairs, and then I do have a decent car again;).. Can allways take the bus and train you know;)

In rual areas I can understand why you are in need of a big truck, ro something that you can drive on uneven land.. No problems with it.. But most of them, who have this big cars, are in no need of a car the size of a small appartment block.. I know a few, who do have this cars, but who for the most part are using it to drive on a even road to and from work.. And then complain about how expensive the petrol are...

But in the City, you are just not in need of a big truck to get to, and from work, then you need something sheaper, something that use a lot less fuel.. Like your prius. Who have a REALLY decent milage... I have been in thinking about buying one of them next time.. But have to se what I can affoard then;).. They look nice, and is not that bad at all..

Its time for US, to live within its means I would say.. It wil be hard to admit that this enormous suburbans are not the right for US anymore.. But I do hope, and I do KNOW that if anyone is able to conquer space, then you are able to build smarter City's and to rebuild/build a collective transport plan, both inside the City's and between City's that is second to non.. I belive US is one of the nations who can go from road lowing nations, to train lowing nations, if they just get a chance to get to know...

America is a enormous country, that can do most what they put their minds to.. If enough americans put into their mind, that they wil build a decent railroad network, and to rebuild lost public transport, it is NOTHING short of a Super-volkano eruption in Yellowstone that can change your mind... You prove it in the 1960s, when there in less than a decade managed to build rockets needed to send men to the Moon.. Then you are able to also put into your mind, that you want a public transport sector second to non too..

China are using billions to build a collective, public network between the big Citys on the coast of China.. And are also building modern railroads all over the place. When they can, who are far more poor than US, then US can outperform China on every level.. If US want and put their mind to it that is..

Diclotican

[primavera]

83. I guess that's what irks me so about these discussions

We just killed a million Iraqis. For oil. In the Gulf of Mexico, we just poisoned what used to be one of the richest habitats left on earth. For oil. Global climate change is a scientifically proven fact to all but the most self-deluded right-wingers. Polar caps are melting, sea level is rising, floods and hurricanes are increasing in frequency and severity, the list of calamities we've brought - and are continuing to bring - upon ourselves goes on. And our response? More often than not, it's: "Damn, you're right, that really sucks, but don't ask me to give up my monster truck." Even here on DU, where we're supposed to be the progressive thinkers, the good guys, the ones who aren't afraid to recognize reality as it is and advocate for better ways of doing things, even here, we've still got tons of people who agree that conservation is a fine thing - provided, of course, that it's something that other people do and doesn't affect us. Man, if we're the hope for this country, it ain't looking good.

You're absolutely right: we can - or at least certainly ought to be able to - do a hell of a lot better than we're doing. It may already be too late - our opportunity to act like responsible grown-ups and take simple preventative measures passed decades ago - it's no longer certain that anything we do now can reverse the damage that we've done. But we can sure as shit try. Yet all we keep coming up with is excuses. "The US is too big for public transportation!" "We don't have trains!" "Our right to choose to buy gas guzzling behemoths is what makes us Americans!" Great, just great. Well, I guess they're right, it's just hopeless and we all might as well fucking lay down and die right now because we obviously do not have what it takes to cope with the challenge.

[Diclotican]

86. primavera

primavera

Yeah.. And I belive that the Iraqis is soooo happy about that US killed just a million iraqis over their oil, who should have going to make THEIR life better, rather than let Exon-Mobil get another gigantic payout for the directors and other big shots..

Not to say what happend in the Gulf of Mexico. where greed, and stupidity destroyed, as you point out some of the richest habitats left on the earth. Its a tragedy of historic propetions that BP are not been hanged up to dry on this one.. It is Not the first time BP, and other oil companies have been destroying rich nature for saving a penny on security and needed maintaince on oil rigs or oil lines... And as long as BP just let off the hoock in US, they would NOT stop doing this "mishaps":. Only a real hard smack down, where BP have to PAY for the wast they have managed to made.. And to also pay the parties who have been damaged, for maybe 10 and 20 year in the future also.. As it is now, BP can go away from this, and just say "sorry, would not happend again" and when next accident struck, just claim that other did it.. Even if it was clearly BP fault.. On this BP should, have been hanged out to dry for a long time.. And a lot of heads should been rolling before this was over. As it was, just another director have to leave, with a decent "payout" and promise of another company job, when everything calmes down..

Climate shange IS happending, no doubt about it, Even the most right wing can't really claim that it is not happending.. Everyone know it, but are unsure what to do... We can stop using cars,or we can do our best to produce cars who is poluting less.. Cars is here to be, so I guess we have to produce cars, and other means of transportation, who polute less, or nothing, and maybe take some steps in our own life, to at least TRY to shange our habits. Im sure, if everyone, or at least many of us, was starting to live "green" a lot of things should be able to differ 20 or 30 year down the road.. We might not have stoped all the polution, but at least WE can do our chare, to stop poluting be our only solution.. New Modern industry, with alot of clean production can also subside a lot of polution who are produsing today, thanks to a lot of old polutiong industry..

No one "need" monster truck, even tho many need a large truck to work, where a smal sedan might not do the trick.. But it is a lot of modern mini-vans and mini-SUV who are really neat, who are great of millage. Last week me and a friend rented a Skoda SUV, and then a WV Tuareg who are both in the SUV size.. Both was decent to drive, have a great milage and had enough "Punsh" to be quick in traffic and nice to drive on a regular basis. If I got the money, I would buy either a Skoda or WV Tuareg, or something in the same size.. You get a decent 2L engine who have from 140hp to 170hp with a 5 or 6 shift transmission, who are using .30 to 50 on a regular basis.. Thats be .30 TO .50 liter pr mile (metric mil who are like 1000 m) So if European car manufactors can do it, then US car manufactors can do it, even if it maybe cost them little in the start, as americans have to learn how great this smaller cars really are. One of the reasons US car manufactors are not as big as they once was in Europe, is becose it looks like GM and others, understood or want to understood that in Europe we want smaler,effective fuel saving cars.. Before that was starting to be a issure, the US car manufactors had allmoust "monopol" in many European country becouse of the quality of the cars..

Everyone have to share in the pain when serious shanges have to be made.. Americans have to PAY for the folly your "free gas, big engines" have been for many years.. It is absolutely posible to do it, but the shanges HAVE to came the other way or another.. No one can just say, yes its great to be green, but I want to get my big gas gussing Big cars.. If you are not in NEED for this, you can get a decent car, who have most of the power you want, but dosen't look like you are larger than the rest...

US is one of the country I belive is able to do the change, if they want it.. If enough americans just wake up to the reality of things, railroads, modern communications and so one would be on the agenda for the next 50 year.. It depend of what US want, and I doubt it is to late yet. Off course you can have public transports in US.. China is larger than US, at least in population, and they are spending billions of dollar, building a modern, advanced train, who are going all the way from Changhai to Bejing and should be finished by 2020.. And cut the travel time from todays 2-3 day, to some under 22 hours when the railroad is finished.. That is a BIG change for most chinese, who either have to accept been on the railroad for 2-3 days, or fly on a aircraft - and flying is still rather expensive in China.. It is far less expensive to take a train than fly.. When China can do it, US can if they want to build a modern advanced railroad.. Not just on the coast, but also from coast to coast.. It wil cost US a lot of money, but it is proven, that the cost of building tracks, is far sheaper on the long run, then the opposite.. The railroad opened the West in the 1800s.. Maybe its time for US to open up, in other ways, with modern railroads, who can transport pepole and transport everything else from coast to coast.. It wil not be easy, it wil cost a lot.. But then might also US wil wake up, and be the gigant it really is.. STOP waging all this wars, and get Pentagon on a diet,in the meantime.. And you wil get enough money to build a decent public transport for everyone to use. And maybe even get most americans on the right track when it came to job and so one..

I stil belive in US, even tho I have had my doubs about the future in US.. Hang in there friends, and do the right thing.. I know you can do it.. Even Winston Shurchill understood, that US wil do the right thing, when they had tried to do the opposite..

Diclotican

[primavera]

92. I envy you your confidence

I hope it isn't misplaced. Thank you for your faith!

[UpInArms]

27. Diclotican,

I am hoping that some real change could come if the pain lasts long enough - some real differences in the way that the US approaches its energy needs - that renewal and clean energy could become a way of the future and not just a joke - these people don't seem to understand that there is no Planet B and tomorrow is today.

best to you and yours

uia

[sendero]

36. Without scaling gas prices..

.. to income, your number is meaningless. In fact, it is probably downright misleading.

[Diclotican]

60. sendero

sendero

Wel, thats true, bu I am still NOT on the high income line if you belive that.. Rather Im on the other side of the line so to say.. But it is STILL far more inexpensive to have a car in the US, than in most of Europe.. We are taxed fare more just to have the dam car than in the US.. The use of the car is also not so inexpensive if you belive it...

It is a reason most europeans have smaller cars than theyr counterparts in US, and that is mostly becouse cars, specially the bigger ones cost far more in Europe, than in US..

So I have to say, when I see americans complain about how expensive petrol have been in the US the last decade.. Wait to wain, to you get up to the same "level" of pain that europeans have been used to the last two decades.. At least..

Diclotican

[sendero]

63. I get your point.

.. and yes - owning a car is much more expensive in Britain and Europe than here, but this is a problem that I believe will be going away soon.

I think high oil prices are here to stay for a number of reasons. First, the dollar is losing value to other currencies. More and more producers are not interested in being paid in dollars any more. Demand is soaring in China and India, while production has effectively plateaued.

So, if you wish for cars to be more expensive to operate in the USA I'm pretty sure you are going to get your wish. And as a driver of a 38 mpg vehicle I also don't have a lot of sympathy for folks who drive 12 mpg boats in an effort to make themselves look and feel important.

[Diclotican]

64. sendero

sendero

First of all, i dont "wish" that using a car should be more expensive than it is today in US.. Its not nice to hope bad things happend to others.. But realistic opperating and using a car are not that inexpensive as many americans seen to belive.. Specially the bigger, with a lot of engine power and so one.. The V8 and V10 engines are for the most part just americans who still have it as an regular basis.. Europeans, and japanese cars and other automakers have all going down to 6 or 4 sylinder engines. Some even down to 3 or 5 sylinder, as it is less expensive to produce, and to opperate on a regular basis for the users.. US have to discover that the rest of the world have discovered.. You dosen't need a V10 engine to get a car running... Its cool, but it cost more than your might like in the end... You have a LARGE country, thats true, but less expensive and fuel secure cars can still be opperated in US if american automakes WANT it.. US can still be a leader in the car manufactor industry, if they really want it to happend... After all, US was the leading car manufactur for more than 30 year after world war two.. Get what the public want, not just inside US, but outside US, and you wil have a winner.. And a lot of americans wil get their job back... I still have belive in US cars.. But for the moment, you can't produce a car who are half worth what japan, South Korea or some european car manufaurs can do.. for 1/3 the price.. Go back to basic, and try to find out what the world want, and you wil absolutely have a winner, both international, and national.. If anyting goes here on DU, an american car who can outperform most japan and europeans cars, wil be a winner by a large margin.. Learn what the germans have been learned, and US wil get a winner... US can outperform anyone if they WANT to outperform..

And you are also correct, that the US dollar have been loosing value to other currencies.. It have been a slippery slope for US currency, as most of the world have been using US dollar as the reserve currency. And still does today.. Most of oil is paid in US dollar, even tho other currency, like Euro, have been making a dent into the US dollar, as a few notable country's like PRC have been spending a lot of ressourses to buy Oil in Euro and not in US dollar...

Its true that India and China have demand soaring, but how mutch if it, is in reality a bobble ready to blow anytime is something I wonder sometimes.. You can't build yourself into the sky, And even tho China have managed to get 100 million chineses out of dirt poor condition to a middle class.. It's still 800 mill chinese who have not been lifted up to a middle class scenario, and who even is scared about the rising food prizes, who can be a danger to social calm and security in the country.. Anyone who know a little chinese history know when the farmers is hungry, they tend to revolt, even if the revolt is faling.. If you have nothing to loose, you tend to do anything... China have a lot of troubles in the future, and they have to try to fix THAT, if they really want to play a world leader for the 21 century.. The same for India, who still have a lot of poor peopole who have not been lifted up from dirt poor condition...

Car is not inexpesive, its an expensive.. And in norway where I live, a car is still considered, by the government, a luxery item, not a item everyone need.. Its an OLD law going back to the first T Ford inported from US.. But the law are still in effect, and as we do not produse our own cars, we have a lot of import tarifs on the cars, who is adding to the prize you have pay for the dam car.. It is totaly outdated, and everyone is bitching about it.. But we are not doing to mutch about it:P

If you can affoard a boat who is using 12mpg then you can pay what you have to pay on the pump if you ask me;).. Then you either have to mutch money, or to mutch bank loan:P

Diclotican

[AndyTiedye]

66. You Have TRAINS in Europe

A huge proportion of the US has no public transportation whatsoever.
There are entire states that do not have even ONE passenger rail line.

It will take decades to fix this, and that can only start if we regain
the House and get a lot more seats in the Senate, because the Republicans
try to kill even the few trains we still have at every opportunity.

[Diclotican]

81. AndyTiedye

AndyTiedye

We do have TRAINS in Europe.. It have been one of the halmark of every industralized nations in Europe, to have train roads all over the place. Some have managed to build it up to an amazing network between city's, other could do far more, to build reiable railroad connections all over the place..

It is true that US is a place where public transport have been an enemy of the STATE for long, long time.. Now its coming back to hunt most americans, that they diden't build a decent public transport network when they had the chance.. At one point, in the 1950s and 1960s, US was in fact the leading nation in public transport sector.. Few americans know that little fact.. USSR was in fact trying all what they could do, to learn from US, how to build a decent collective transport network between and inside the city's.. The famous underground network in Moskow and St-Petersburg are in fact mostly build on the same idea that London and New York did when they build their underground network.. Even Josef Stalin, was admirer of US collective transportnetwork, and was indeed really interest in building a better public transport in USSR than US had.. And it was something that every soviet leader from Stalin to Gorbatsjev was trying their best to outperform.. Better transport nettwork than US. Or at least on the same level...

It wil take decades maybe more to rebuild, and to build new lines. Thats true.. And I doubt it wil be more easy, becouse of some republicans, that want to kill interstate transport on a public ticket.. But they seen to forget that your amazing inter-state road system, who span the whole of US, was indeed the halmark of a public idea, from FDR in the 1930s and 1940s to Eisenhower in the 1950s.. Withouth public spending, the US interstate road system would never been anynear what they have today..

But US can build from scratch, and to use the newest metodes to build advanced railroads between city's and every where else you are in need of a railroad.. Railroads is not as it was in the early 20 century, if US was able to deside to build new lines from City's to City's, they could use the newest technolgy, and use all the new tools that are in the tool box.. And on a sidenote, quite a few americans would get a decent job, and a wage to be proud about...

Diclotican

[AndyTiedye]

85. GM Bought Up the Trolley Lines and Ripped Out the Tracks

They put in a few buses to "replace" them, then took most of those away.

What trains remain have been starved for funding ever since.

That is what happened to America's once-great public transportation system.

We got a little rail funding through while we still had control of the House.
All the states that elected Teabagger governors cancelled all the new rail
projects in their states. Now the House is trying to rescind all the rail
funding that was appropriated before.

We won't be able to even start on this until we control the House
and have 60 Democrats in the Senate. Of course we have to keep
the Presidency too. Even then, the Teabaggers will block rail in
every state that they control.

[Diclotican]

87. AndyTiedye

AndyTiedye

And how stupid aren't that??:. What a stupid move to do, to cut all new lines, just becouse they belive it to be "wrong ting to do":. I doubt the same tea-bager guvernours are the one who want to "diet" Pentagons extreme budgets either?? Rather spend a lot more on programs that is doubtfull wil ever go to anything that most americans can use in the future...

US need a gigantic leap forward, thats so true.. At least control of the House, bulletproof majority would be nice.. And most of the Senate. And then also the Presidency.. Then MIGHT US can go that long, gigantic leap forward. I know you can if you want.. But that depend of you, americans wil wote in politicans who are looking little forward, than to the next election sycle At the moment, many are just wanting to keep into their power, large or smal...

Diclotican

[wordpix]

90. agree, it's very sad, I'm about to buy a farm and get some horses

if I could find a plough and a blacksmith, it would be good, too.

[PSPS]

45. Europe's high price funds social programs. US's high price funds CEO yachts and Political bribes.

The oil companies have become a de-facto taxing organ in the US.

[Vinee]

76. The US produces half of the oil it uses domestically.

so it makes sense that we would be paying less than a European country that either exports or imports most all of its oil. I guess we're spoiled though, huh? Oil is expensive because speculators are betting on weak future US dollars and that's working out great for oil exporting nations like Norway so it's no surprise that your content with seeing expensive gas.

[Marrah_G]

80. You have benefits those higher prices pay for

You also have infrastructure not based on automobiles and you have access to mass transit in most places. You just really cannot compare the situation here to the one in Europe. The situations are just too different.

[24601]

84. How much of what you pay is tax? If it's over priced when it's a

worldwide fungible resource - then more than market forces are to blame.

[high density]

7. But we're going to cut the deficit!

And think of all the things we won't have to worry about spending money on because it will all go in the gas tank.

[bhikkhu]

8. As long as demand exceeds supply, there's not much that can be done

You can say its speculation and legislate against it in any number of ways, but realistically, one way or another, the price winds up as "whatever the market will bear". Too many players on the global market willing to pay $100 a barrel.

Sometimes you hear that there is plenty of supply (from the Sauds, for instance, who's production is declining) but here are the numbers from the IEA if anyone's interested: http://omrpublic.iea.org/

[No Elephants]

79. Demand is not exceeding supply.

[BlueIris]

9. The energy crisis is the least of his problems. nt

[Demeter]

71. True. but If O Admits to One Error, Maybe He'd Be Receptive to Others

or maybe we'll be seeing President Romney in two years...

[tularetom]

13. I hope he realizes that $4 gasoline is more important to voters than the deficit

And I'm starting to see a few indications that he might be catching on.

But he's going to have to do more if he wants to avoid getting blamed for what's going on. Not sure what he can do, but pointing fingers at his political opposition might help. It's always worked for republicans.

[robinlynne]

16. 4.00? That was last year! Wish I could find gas for 4.00..... (Los Angeles)

actually wish we all had electric cars.

[forty6]

17. Isn't it time for L.A. to get some public Mass Transit?

I'm so sick of seeing freeways in L.A. filled with cars from 5 AM to 2 AM...

I know, people move to L.A. to be FREE to go anywhere, do anything.....but they just drive to work and the malls, and back......I bet California could save 50% of their gas useage if L.A. had good mass transit.

[coalition_unwilling]

43. L.A. is a horizontal city and per-mile costs for mass transit are

prohibitively high (light rail and subways). Buses are overcrowded with routes such that transfers can make a 10-minute trip by car take upwards of an hour. Not an expert on L.A.'s history, but I think the city really matured after 1945 when the nation committed during the Eisenhower years to the automobile in a major way.

Best way to cope in L.A. is with a very fuel efficient vehicle. For example, my 90s Sentra (1.6 L 4 cylinder) gets about 35 MPG in the city, I think. Another way to cope in L.A. is to limit one's job to within a few miles of where one lives, thereby reducing the daily commute to manageable proportions.

[boppers]

53. LA is a city in the same way that Britan is a city.

The whole problem with comparing states and cities in the US to elsewhere is that LA would be it's own *country* in Europe.

[robinlynne]

50. why have gas at all? Perpsnally I moved here to help tkae care of my Mom.....

[stockholmer]

20. $4/gallon US petrol, pfffft, here it is over $9/gallon, so glad I do not drive

time to dismantle the unsustainable (and socially corrosive) petrol-fueled US suburban sprawl

75 mile each-way daily commutes are not a right, nor are they worth the costs to all concerned

[KT2000]

26. Isn't fuel

more there because taxes etc are added to the cost of the fuel? Isn't that what accounts for the difference, although taxes are added to ours too, but likely less?

[stockholmer]

29. about half of that is tax ($4 or $5 US/gallon) made up of 2 taxes (fuel tax and carbon tax)

the rest is increased over the US due to Brent crude oil (60% of the worlds supply) having an ahistorical 10% higher spread over the US WTI-Cushing index, plus increased costs of production (Brent is medium sour crude, thus more sulfur to remove than the medium sweet Cushing) and distribution.

[KT2000]

35. Oh - thanks for the info

Always wondered what accounted for the difference.

[primavera]

33. Agreed

Even acknowledging that the US is less compact than Europe, there is nonetheless much that could be done to improve public transit. Even for those who cannot use public transportation, there are far more fuel efficient, lower emission vehicles that Americans could be using for their commutes. But many Americans turn their noses up at such alternatives, believing that it is their right to choose whichever vehicle they prefer, no matter how impractical or environmentally unfriendly they may be. Fair enough, but contrary to what most Americans believe, the freedom to choose does not mean that one has the freedom to not have to pay for one's choices. So, if they really want to drive lumbering hulks that measure their gas mileage in blocks to the gallon, then they can pay $10 a gallon for the privilege.

[AndyTiedye]

22. The oil companies love Republicans, and try to get them elected

Gas is going up higher and faster than oil prices are.
In 2008, Gas hit record highs, but still was lagging the oil prices.

Market forces? I don't think so.

They were holding gas prices down as much as they could in 2008
they are raising them as fast as they can now.

The oil companies love Republicans, and try to get them elected.
Expect $7 by Election day 2012. Maybe even higher.
With gas prices like that, we're toast in 2012.

[stockholmer]

25. end the left/right paradigm thinking ..."Obama biggest recipient of BP cash"

Sure the Republicans are more blatant and reckless about it, but BOTH parties play the citizens for chumps.


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

"While the BP oil geyser pumps millions of gallons of petroleum into the Gulf of Mexico, President Barack Obama and members of Congress may have to answer for the millions in campaign contributions they’ve taken from the oil and gas giant over the years.

BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a mix of employees and the company’s political action committees — $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals............"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/exxon-hearts-ob.html

Exxon Obama (pre-election)


"As we close up a week wherein Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, on the stump and in a TV ad accused rival Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., of being "in the pocket of big oil," and doing the industry's bidding -- not to mention a week during which the Democratic National Committee launched an Exxon-McCain '08 website to drive home this Democratic talking point -- the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics points out that the issue is a bit more complicated than it first would appear.

McCain has received three times more money from the oil industry in general -- $1.3 million for McCain compared to approximately $394,000 for Obama. But that said, Obama has received more campaign cash than McCain has from the employees of some of the biggest oil companies -- Exxon, Chevron and BP............."





:thumbsdown:

[AndyTiedye]

38. They Are All Backing the Repigs Now

Obama made them stop deep-water drilling for a little while, and made them pay compensation for the gulf disaster.

The oil companies do not forgive that sort of thing.

Nobody gets to tell the oil companies what to do for very long.

[stockholmer]

52. "made them pay compensation for the gulf disaster" --2 big points on this

1. Under ANY regime, (yes, even the lackey Republicans), they would have been forced to pay some compensation, BUT

2. They are not ever, under Dems or Repubs, going to be TRULY held to account.

You go and keep thinking (as it appears you do) that all the bad comes from just the Republicans, and the Democrats are the saviours against this, and you will truly be tossing away any hope for actual change and political social justice.

[AndyTiedye]

54. I Don't Accept the "Democrats are Just as Bad" Meme

Of course, the oil companies are not going to be truly held to account by either party, because they are more powerful than either party.

I think BP should have had their leases cancelled for their gross negligence, but there is no way that is going to happen.

It is pretty clear that BP was made to pay more than the Republicans would have done.
There was also a moratorium on drilling for a while, and things are proceeding more slowly than before.
It is less than I would have liked, but probably the best we could hope for under the current circumstances.

I don't accept the meme floating around here that the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans.
I don't see how anyone could after 8 years of Bush**, or after seeing the Republican candidates for 2012.

[stockholmer]

58. I never said they were 'just as bad' on this issue(& they are 'better' on many other issues too) BUT

the vast majority of Democrats VOTE, (when the totality of the impact is weighed) in ways that are leading to the destruction of the US as well, albeit in different overt and covert 'memes' than the Republicans.

It doesn't matter at the end of the day how you got to 'hell' (I am an atheist so I use 'hell' as a metaphor), if you still are 'burning' when the journey ends.

When a false left/right paradigm is present, and there are only 2 so-called realistic, 'legitimate' ways (Democrats or Republicans) for the vast majority of Americans to express their political will, slowly, but surely this leads to a tyranny of the oligarchs.

The systemic controllers are nothing if not patient and unceasing in their implementation of control mechanisms. They know that when fundamental, foundational laws and perceived consensus are brought in GRADUALLY (by this I mean over decades) and are adapted and accepted by the American public through a process of 'compromise' and 'limits of acceptable debate' that the entire system is thus framed to ensure the outcomes they want.

What is voted on, then passed into law (after being bitterly fought over by Republicans and Democrats in a kabuki show of political theatre) and then endures over multi-generational lengths of political time becomes entrenched, becomes the 'limits of reasonable debate'. This ensures that true change, change that would benefit the 'ideals' that the supporters of the 2 parties truly believe in, truly think they are voting for by supporting one party or the other, never, ever occurs.

What remains, after decade upon decade of this system of 2 party controlled opposition, is a system that benefits the oligarchs, imposes their long term goals, and makes the 'unwinding' of the system's horrific impact on the vast majority of people basically impossible because it was brought in so gradually, cemented so securely through the 2 party 'viscous' debate and 'compromise', 'stare decisis' system.

The other feature that is so insidious to a controlled 2 party system is that by its very nature, the laws will be passed by a great pool 'in the middle' that is comprised of the so-called centre of both parties. The USA uses the terms RINOS and DINOS for these members. Sure, sometimes more 'extreme' legislation is passed by one side or the other, but the vast bulk is passed by the middle, in a 'horse-trading' manner, where special add-ons, earmarks are submitted as well, many times on issues that have nothing to do with the bill being passed.

This 'centre of the 2 parties' method of power also means that 'true-believers', genuine ideologues, are forced to either enter into one or the other parties and be subsumed (with the hope that they can somehow 'influence' the agenda') or be pushed into a third party that will NEVER gain power. The totality of this entire schema is the entrenchment and continuity of the corporatist agenda.

Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton's and hundreds of other high-powered pols' mentor at Georgetown University) sums it up in the must-read 'Tragedy and Hope' (1966) http://www.archive.org/details/TragedyAndHope :

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy."

Tragedy and Hope is the result of the only time that an official academic was given unfettered access to the Council on Foreign Relations' library and archives. It, and many other books, shows the utter dominance of the Anglo/American banking alliance and its associated webs (foundations such as Rockefeller, Ford, Rhodes, etc, financial institutions such as the BIS, IMF, the privately-owned US Federal Reserve, ECB, World Bank, etc).

Until this control is severed in what will be the hardest struggle in the history of th US, (and will NEVER occur within the 2 party system) the outcome for America is sealed into scenarios that are the stuff of Orwellian/Huxley style dystopian nightmares.

[Yo_Mama]

48. This really isn't true

To find what oil companies are paying, you look at exhibit 17 of the international trade report. It gives you the average import price of a barrel. Here is a historical summary:
http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/historical/petr.pdf

2007-11: 79.87 gas: 3.128
2007-12: 82.82 gas: 3.070
2008-01: 84.16 gas: 3.095
2008-02: 84.66 gas: 3.078
2008-03: 89.83 gas: 3.293
2008-04: 96.85 gas: 3.507

2010-11: 76.81 gas: 2.913
2010-12: 79.78 gas: 3.048
2011-01: 84.34 gas: 3.148
2011-02: 87.17 gas: 3.264

We don't know yet what the prices for March and April will be, but the prices will have gone up substantially to follow futures and spot pricing after the Libya problem. It is a supply problem and a pricing problem. The sharper curve up in crude pricing means that gas prices follow a sharper curve up this time as well.

But don't worry. The US economy will tank, and then pricing will come down. But not until next year. Companies sell gas at prices that will allow them to buy the next round of supply. You see that prices this year are very similar to prices then. World oil prices have almost reached their previous peak:


It has nothing to do with who the oil companies favor, and given the huge tax breaks Obama signed for companies, they probably should want him back.

Edit to add US only spot (actual pricing is a blend of world and US spot, because the US imports a lot of gasoline):

[unkachuck]

30. gas prices....

....visibly hit the average persons bottom-line daily....every moment while pumping monopoly gas, Americans are reminded just how pissed-off they are and how unfair and painful those fake oil prices hit their corporately-abused empty wallets....

....if the administration won't fight big-oil over their raping gas prices, then the administration won't fight anybody over anything on behalf of the American people; they will be considered impotent and useless....

....can you say, one term president?....bye, bye, congress?....or maybe the administration doesn't believe the boneheads will hand the congress and presidency to the pukes?

[Yo_Mama]

49. Don't blame the administration on this one

Well, okay, blame them for the Libya entanglement, but the US administration can't wave a wand and make gasoline prices cheaper.

[unkachuck]

69. "...the US administration can't wave a wand and make gasoline prices cheaper."

....maybe not with a wand, but Obama could at least offer-up price-control legislation and then let the repugs defend the status quo....

....gas prices are going to be Obamas' Katrina, the point at which the majority of Americans write him off as a president....it's really quite simple as a friend of mine recently said, "...if there's nothing Obama can do for me today, when it comes time for me to vote, there will be nothing I can do for him."

[Demeter]

73. Or The Administration Could Put Teath in the Law Enforcement

for fraud, other white collar crimes, speculating, etc....

Put Blankfein in jail. See what stops happening then.

[LibertyFox]

78. Price controls just lead to shortages

Isn't that what happened back in the 70s when there were price controls on gas? I'm not old enough to have been affected but I read about lines at gas pumps. Price controls leading to companies shutting down production or selling to overseas because the most of the oil isn't profitable in the US. We get shortages, and the weak economy is crippled even more. As much as we can hate on oil companies the solution is not to punish them, it's to see to it that alternatives are more viable.

Personally I'm fine if gas prices become unacceptable because oil simply costs too much. If that happens then cars like the Prius and Volt become more competitive due to markets than due to federal subsidies, I think that strengthens the public perception that this is not the government trying to force them into cars and instead look at them as viable alternatives.

[unkachuck]

88. "...I'm fine if gas prices become unacceptable because oil simply costs too much."

....I need my car but I can't afford 'unacceptably' high gas prices or a new vehicle....if you haven't noticed, many of us are experiencing a Great deflation-inflation Depression....

....with price controls, will there be shortages? Yes. Will there be long gas lines? Yes. Will you be able to afford to tank-up your vehicle? Yes. Will big-oil sell gas at a fair government price? Yes. (if they or their affiliates want to do business in the US)

[Kokonoe]

34. The National retail fuel price average was $1.61 a gallon on December 29, 2008

Of course the Wall Street Banksters said the world was about to end.

[Liberal_in_LA]

37. I paid $4.29 a few hours ago. Not Obama's fault

[Chris_Texas]

40. Why should Obama get a pass?

he has continued and often escalated the policies of Bush (while running against them). He deserves the same criticism and more.

[girl gone mad]

41. Shouldn't have handed trillions to Wall Street..

and loosened the CFTC rules so that Goldman Sachs and other banks could be classified as "refiners".

Add our overpriced gas to the tab of wealth stolen from the middle class since the start of the financial crisis. Obama has been fully on board, giving the banks virtually everything they've asked for. Why shouldn't he get some of the blame?

[SammyWinstonJack]

70. +1000!

[golfguru]

42. Obama is safe with $4 per gallon gas price

But he will be in mortal danger if price goes north of $5.
Not many compact car owners can afford to pay $50+ each fill up.

My conversion van has 30 gallon tank...so for me it will be $150 for a fill up.

[GliderGuider]

46. 70% of the country is close to the truth.

$4/gal gas comes directly from $112/bbl oil:





And where does $112/bbl oil come from? Straight from a peaked-out world oil supply. The world supply has been peaked-out for six years now.



The idea that Obama might be able to do something about this situation is a nice comforting political story, but the truth is that he's as far behind the oil eight-ball as the rest of the oil-importing world.

[classysassy]

51. The Gas Gangsters and the Banksters

are destroying the middle class and we sit idly by as those criminals destroy the American dream,I say shame on all of us for putting up with the politicians and their owners.We should be " Taking it to the streets",let the rich crooks and the bribe taking congresscritters and the supreme courtjesters know we are damn tired of being damn tired.

[iemitsu]

55. 80% of the oil/gas used by the US

is used by the military.
stop the illegal wars and conserve gas at the same time. think of the money we could all save.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. That's not true at all. The US uses 20 million barrels of oil a day.

The military accounts for about 1% of the total. The US military uses more oil than any other single organisation but it's an insignificant fraction of the total. I have no idea where you got your info from, but it's completely wrong.

[rocktivity]

61. Gas prices rose when Bush was in office, too.

People aren't going swing republican to get lower gas prices.

This is the second article I've seen on this -- who do they think they're kidding?

:eyes:
rocktivity

[Oasis_]

67. However...

They may swing if these significantly higher prices start to undermine this already extremely fragile "recovery".

If unemployment spikes, and the economy deteriorates once again, Obama will be a one termer. They'll be calls and support for increased drilling all the way from the Gulf to ANWR--and anyone opposing it will have a difficult time being re-elected

Much can happen over the next 18 months--so I'm still optimistic that prices will stabilize and the President cruises to re-election, but again--anything negative with respect to economic performance will be pinned on Obama--unfairly--but that's the way the game works, unfortunately.

Oasis

[rocktivity]

75. But as long as there's no reason to believe that Republicans will offer the "hope" and "change"

since they didn't do so the last time they were completely in power, the only thing Obama has to worry about is too many swing voters staying home.

:scared:
rocktivity

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

62. "That may not be fair, but it’s a fact Obama has to deal with-..."

"That may not be fair, but it’s a fact Obama has to deal with-..."


An unfair fact?

Is it fair or is it a fact? Which one? I've never seen an unfair fact. :shrug:

[Vinee]

72. "Under My Plan, Electricity Rates Will Necessarily Skyrocket"

It's all part of his supragenius plan. "supra" genius... that's like a whole other level above "super".

[Imagevision]

77. Obama faces trouble with $4 gasoline - $5 per gallon? (no comment)